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While playing the great free roam mission "Displacement" I often got lost because there were so many areas to explore and I sometimes forgot important places only because I spend too much time chasing something else. What would help a lot with this would be a feature to mark locations on your map with a pin or a cross, e.g. like "Monomyth" does. The latter has four different coloured pins and you can even add written comments, but just left mouse button set a mark and right mouse button remove it should be enough for TDM. Would this be possible as a new feature for 2.15?

@STiFUIm glad to see this is back on the menu! Looks really nice. A neutral grey or a very subtle "golden" hue for all frobable objects is the way to go. Colored shaders can get messy with different lighting scenarios, different loot object colors, always fighting players preferences, ect. Also object specific frob colors will open up a brand new communication channel that wasnt there before. Its just messy imo. I did some early prototypes for colors a long time ago, might be in the dev forums somewhere actually. Anyways, great to see it getting worked on. Thanks for doing it.

Preface HUD-elements are often a technical necessity, to convey important information to the player that would otherwise not be available to them. A problem with such HUD-elements is that they don't belong to the virtual world. They make it painfully clear to the player that they are just playing a game, thereby reducing immersion. There are many genres, where you need to have such information available at all times, think fast-paced first person shooters, Mobas, or strategy games. However, especially for genres featuring free exploration, that information is simply not needed at all times. Some games (e.g. Dead Space or Metro series) have gone to extreme lengths to completely eliminate HUD elements by integrating all relevant information in the virtual world. While this is of course the most immersive approach, it is also the hardest to implement. A much easier solution is to rely on a dynamic HUD, where certain HUD elements are displayed depending on context. In recent years, I have become hyper focused on immersion. I can't stand a cluttered HUD ("sensory overload") or a map full of quest pointers ("feels like work"). I want to immerse myself in the world, not tick of pointers on a map. About a year ago, having played a ton of WoW in my youth, I played the alliance fraction on WoW Classic for the first time. Via interface addons, I had my UI completely disappear during exploration, but when I entered combat or clicked on an enemy, the UI would become visible. The minimap would generally only become visible during mouse-over. The same goes for non-combat-relevant action-bars. I paired that with a text-to-voice addon for the quest texts and some nice dynamic camera addons that would zoom in on characters when talking to them. Of course I also did not use any quest-GPS addons, so that I actually had to pay attention and search the world for the quests. It was super immersive and a glorious experience reminiscent of the 2004 release. So naturally, having played a lot of TDM recently, I am thinking about how we could improve our dynamic HUD in TDM for immersion-seekers. Current State of Dynamic HUD in TDM The HUD of TDM already has quite some dynamic elements Healthbar only shows if we are not at 100% health Breathbar only shows if we are not at 100% breath Weapon only shows if a weapon is selected and ammo text only shows if ammo is relevant to that weapon Inventory-Icon and -text only shows if an item is selected Pickup- and object-update texts are only displayed momentarily Ideas for More Dynamic HUD Elements in TDM So basically, with every HUD element, we should ask ourselves the following questions: Added information: Does this HUD element actually convey any information? Relevant when: In what situation is that information relevant? Let's start! (Please note that all proposals below shall be made optional under some "tdm_dynamic_hud"-cvar or something like that, so I am not planning to take anything away from anyone) I will update this list of ideas as we go. Weapon HUD Blackjack and Sword Added information: None. The player can see the 3d model of both weapons, so the HUD does not add any information. Relevant when: Never Proposal: Remove completely --> Very easy (already tested) Bow and arrows Added information: Arrow type and amount. Sadly, the 3d model does not show the type of arrow unless the bow is drawn. So, the icon and weapon text add information. Also, there is the ammo display. Relevant when: Player is equipping the bow Proposal: Investigate if we can alter the non-drawn bow model such that it already shows the arrow type. If that works nicely, remove arrowtype and arrow icon from HUD and potentially move the ammo display around and make it bigger. I would need support from a 3d modeler here! Proposal: Consider showing the arrow amount only briefly when the weapon is selected (and/or when the player presses "R"?) (and/or ammo amount changes) and then fade it out again. Healthbar Added information: Health Relevant when: Player is losing health. Player is likely going to loose health, e.g., when in combat or when breath bar is close to zero. Player is preparing to enter combat. Player has very low health Proposal: Briefly show after losing health; Show when equipping a weapon (possibly limit to sword?); show when breath is close to running out; show when health is below some threshold (like 20%) Breathbar: Already very dynamic. No action needed! Inventory HUD (Not the inventory grid) Compass Added information: direction Relevant when: When player equips it. Must not fade-out unless a different item is selected. Other items: Added information: Selected item Relevant when: Only during selection (or when player forgot which item is selected) or when the item can be used with the world Note: I had added the tdm_frob_item_selects_item to prevent items being selected when picking them up, thereby eliminating the respective HUD annoyance. However, I found that frequently, I wanted to use the picked up item right away (a readable, a key, etc.), so this approach is not working well. Proposal: Briefly show after selecting an item, then fade-out. Show item when it can be used on a world entity. For picking up items, consider selecting, but not showing them, so player can use them right away without HUD pop-in. When HUD is not shown, pressing next or prev item should not go to next / prev item, but just show the HUD element. Are there maybe other types of inventory items that need special treatment? Shouldering HUD Added information: Shouldering state Relevant when: Always when shouldering a body Proposal: It would be awesome if we could actually have the 3d model shouldered in view. Then we could get rid of the HUD, but of course, this would be very hard to achieve. Lightgem Added information: To some degree, visibility of player Relevant when: sneaking about or running to hide (so basically always) Discussion: It is actually debatable, how much information is really added, because the player can already tell how well illuminated they are just by looking at the environment. I would say minimalists simply disable the lightgem and all others keep it on all the time. Crouch-intent indicator Added information: Crouch-intent, i.e., while it is impossible to change crouched-state, the crouch-state that will be assumed once crouched-state is unlocked again. Current crouch state can be seen by looking at the 3d world. No indicator needed for that. Relevant when: Only while crouched-state is locked / cannot be changed. Proposal: Only show when crouched-state and crouch-intent differ? Any other UI elements I forgot? Another aspect of dynamic HUDs is HOW visibility is controlled. HUD elements might pop-in instantly or gradually fade in and out, like our FrobHelper. I would say, having HUD elements fade in and out looks generally more appealing, but I would need some advice on how to best control transparency. Should transparency be handled by the GUI scripting or dictated by the engine like in the case of the FrobHelper? What makes most sense here?

This thread is intended for discussing and reporting things about the new frob changes during beta. Most of the description below was already given in a previous thread. Bugtracker: #6658, #6668. New Frob Control Styles I have completely refactored the frob-handling code. Now, it is easy to setup different frob control styles. There are currently 3 (and a half), which you can try in 2.14 beta. Under "Settings > Gameplay > General > Hold Frob/Interact" (cvar tdm_frob_control_style), you can change the frob control style. This setting replaced the previous hold frob delay setting (tdm_holdfrob_delay), because I think that nobody would touch that value unless they want to disable the holdfrob mechanic, which can now be achieved by the new setting as well. The currently available control styles are: Disabled: No hold-frob mechanic, i.e., pre v2.12 control style TDM: Short frob is the same as pre v2.12, but long frob is a shortcut for "grab and then use" (use-type interactions) Thief (v2.12): Same as TDM, but behaviour for bodies is swapped. Body limbs are interacted with via "drag and drop". TDM-inverted: Short frob for use-type interactions, hold frob to "drag and drop" objects (when you release the mouse button, you will release the object) I always loved the drag and drop interaction with body limbs created by Daft Mugi and I wanted to see it consistently extended to all objects, which motivated the refactor. I am very happy with the result and I hope you players enjoy it as much as I do. The Thief control style will still remain the default settings, however, as I didn't want to open that can of worms. Hold-Frob Mechanic for Doors There was previously no hold-frob mechanic for doors, except for experimental manual door control feature. I have added two additional new control modes for hold-frob on doors, which you can activate through the cvar tdm_door_control. The modes are: 0: Disabled 1: Manual door fine control (experimental, existing feature) 2: Hold frob to slowly move doors. They are opened and closed alternatingly, just like regular frobbing a door, but interrupting a moving door is skipped. 3: Hold frob to slowly open doors. Additionally, I added in the ability to quickly force close a door by holding frob and pressing attack. It felt like mode 3 ("Slow Open") gave the most benefits and most direct controls to the player and pairs well with the force-close mechanic. So, I just set "Slow Open" as the default and I did not add it to the settings menu, but you are of course encouraged to try the other modes as well. The idea behind this addition is that the player can now slowly sneak and peak through a door, but then can also quickly shut the door again if the player deems the situation unsafe. This adds more skill expression and creates further immersion. 2.14 Beta Please use this thread to report any issues with frobbing (always state tdm_frob_control_style and tdm_door_control configuration), the new door control modes (please test them rigorously) and to give feedback on any of the above changes. Pinging players that previously showed interest in this: @wesp5, @snatcher, @Baal, @Skaruts, @Wellingtoncrab, @Amadeus

The reason why I decreased it is not the door control, but the hold-type grabber. If there is a big delay and the player rotates the view, the object will attach very late. In the long-term, I would like to address this by slowly moving the grabber object to the center of the screen, but for now, that is the situation we are in. If a door remained closed on pseudo-long-frob, that can only mean that you used tdm_door_control 1, which is experimental and definitely not finished. With both other modes, the door should open at least slightly. The 1s hold-time you are citing is wildly exaggerated. If at all, you can only be talking about controller inputs, but even there a long-press is usually significantly shorter than 1s. And we are not talking about a controller here, but a mouse. According to this post on stack-overflow, which also cites a paper that I sadly cannot access, the average mouseclick lasts 85 ms with an upper bound of 135 ms. This is well within the default value of 200 ms. If you actually have problems with the current delay, just increase it. If many players show up with issues in this regard, I will gladly increase the delay back to 300 ms again. The door mechanic does still have a few quirks. That's what the beta is for. One of them was fixed, see above, another one was found in Welli's and Amadeus' FM and I will fix it tonight. To be frank, if you fail to aim at something as huge as a door, the error lies not in the programming. Just kidding! I just adopted the existing control scheme for unshouldering bodies. You suggestion might be something we could consider for 2.15.

Hi, I was playing my map and found that I could mantle straight through a gate onto some nearby stairs, as long as I was aiming through a gap in the gate's bars. Through testing I've found that I can mantle through incredibly small gaps, like this 2x2 unit hole in a 3-unit-thick wall of solid worldspawn (see video): Thicker walls seem to reduce the problem but not remove it: This 22-unit gap in an 8-unit-thick wall is too thin to walk through, but a well-aimed mantle gets me past it (see video): I should note that the positioning is a bit particular, moving the hole or the target platform by a few units can make it harder or impossible to pass through by mantling. In both cases above, I can simply stand still and tap the mantle key or hold the jump key to climb through. Moving or leaning in certain ways could help to perform the exploit in practice, but the core issue seems to be a bug/oversight in mantling in general. I tested this in TDM 2.13 on two different Windows 11 PCs. If you're curious, both of the simple test maps seen above are attached to this post. The player is already in position on map start, just tap mantle or hold jump. (The second map is a bit precise, if you have trouble try binding a keyboard key to Attack so you can start the map without jostling the mouse. Or just spam mantle, it's not pixel-perfect or anything.) mt.map mt2.map

Update on the "stuck weapons" bug: it happened again, no weapon animations, no way to select or use weapons via keys or the mouse roller. The inventory panel could be activated however, so I was able to select weapons from there but without any animation or a way to actually use them. This time there was no "clean" save to go back to, but I managed to un-stuck it by frobbing loot (!). It seems that playing the frob animation (or something triggered afterwards?) somehow resets the whole thing.

Complaint From Players The player must pick up candles before extinguishing them, and then the player must remember to drop the candle. The player must drag a body before shouldering it (picking it up), and the player must remember to frob again to stop dragging the body. The player finds this annoying or easy to make mistakes. For players who ghost, some of them have the goal of returning objects back to their original positions. With the current "pick up, use item, and drop" system, the item might not return easily or at all to its original position. For example, a candlestick might bounce off its holder. (See player quotes at the bottom.) Bug Tracker https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6316 Problems to Solve How can the "pick up" step be eliminated so that the player can directly use or interact with the item where it is in the game world? How can so much key pressing and mouse clicking be eliminated when the player wants to directly use an item? How can candles be extinguished and lanterns toggled off/on without first picking them up? How can bodies be shouldered without first dragging them? Solution Design Goals Make TDM easier for new players while also improving it for longtime players. Reduce tedious steps for common frob interactions. Make it intuitive so that menu settings are unnecessary. Do not introduce bugs or break the game. Terms frob -- the frob button action happens instantly. hold frob -- the frob button is held for 200ms before the action happens. (This can be changed via cvar: 200ms by default.) Proposed Solution Note: Some issues have been struckthrough to show changes since the patch has been updated. Change how frobbing works for bodies, candles, and lanterns. For bodies: Frob to shoulder (pick up) a body. Second frob to drop shouldered body, while allowing frob on doors, switches, etc. Hold frob (key down) to start drag, continue to hold frob (key down) to drag body, and then release frob (key up) to stop dragging body. Also, a body can be dragged immediately by holding frob and moving the mouse. For candles/lanterns: Frob to extinguish candles and toggle off/on lanterns. Hold frob to pick it up, and then frob again to drop. Frob to pick it up, and then frob again to drop. Hold frob to extinguish candles and toggle off/on lanterns. For food: Frob to pick it up, and then frob again to drop. Hold frob to eat food. For other items: No change. New cvar "tdm_frobhold_delay", default:"200" The frob hold delay (in ms) before drag or extinguish. Set to 0 for TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior. Solution Benefits Bodies: New players will have less to learn to get started moving knocked out guards. With TDM v2.11 and earlier, some players have played several missions before realizing that they could shoulder a body instead of dragging it long distances. Frob to shoulder body matches Thief, so longtime Thief players will find it familiar. Second frob drops a shouldered body. Players still have the ability to both shoulder and drag bodies. Compatible with the new auto-search bodies feature. Dragging feels more natural -- just grab, hold, and drop with a single button press. There is no longer the need to press the button twice. Also, it's no longer possible to walk away from a body while unintentionally dragging it. Set "tdm_frobhold_delay" cvar to delay of 0 to restore TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior. Candles: New players will have less to learn to get started extinguishing candles. With TDM v2.11 and earlier, some players didn't know they could extinguish candles by picking them up and using them. Instead, they resorted to throwing them to extinguish them or hiding them. Hold frob to extinguish a candle feels like "pinching" it out. Once a candle is picked up, players still have the ability to manipulate and use them the same way they are used to in TDM v2.11 and earlier. For players who ghost and have the goal of putting objects back to their original positions, they'll have an easier time and not have to deal with candles popping off their holders when trying to place them back carefully. Set "tdm_frobhold_delay" cvar to delay of 0 to restore TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior. Solution Issues Bodies: Frob does not drop a shouldered body, so that might be unexpected for new players. This is also different than Thief where a second frob will drop a body. "Use Inv. Item" or "Drop Inv. Item" drops the body. This is the same as TDM v2.11 and earlier. This is the price to pay for being able to frob (open/close) doors while shouldering a body. Patch was updated to drop body on second frob, while allowing frob on doors, switches, etc. Candles: Picking up a candle or lantern requires a slight delay, because the player must hold the frob button. The player might unintentionally extinguish a candle while moving it if they hold down frob. The player will need to learn that holding frob will extinguish the candle. The player can change the delay period via the "tdm_frobhold_delay" cvar. Also, when the cvar is set to a delay of 0, the behavior matches TDM v2.11 and earlier, meaning the player would have to first "Frob/Interact" to pick up the candle and then press "Use Inv. Item" to extinguish it. Some players might unintentionally extinguish a candle when they are trying to move it or pick it up. They need to make sure to hold frob to initiate moving the candle. When a candle is unlit, it will highlight but do nothing on frob. That might confuse players. However, the player will likely learn after extinguishing several candles that an unlit candle still highlights. It makes sense that an already-extinguished candle cannot be extinguished on frob. The official "Training Mission" might need to have its instructions updated to correctly guide the player through candle manipulation training. Updating the training mission to include the hold frob to extinguish would probably be helpful. Similar Solutions In Fallout 4, frob uses an item and long-press frob picks it up. Goldwell's mission, "Accountant 2: New In Town", has candles that extinguish on frob without the need of picking them up first. Snatcher's TDM Modpack includes a "Blow / Ignite" item that allows the player to blow out candles Wesp5's Unofficial Patch provides a way to directly extinguish movable candles by frobbing. Demonstration Videos Note: The last two videos don't quite demonstrate the latest patch anymore. But the gist is the same. This feature proposal is best experienced in game, but some demonstration videos are better than nothing. The following videos show either a clear improvement or that the player is not slowed down with the change in controls. For example, "long-press" sounds long, but it really isn't. Video: Body Shouldering and Dragging The purpose of this video is to show that frob to shoulder a body is fast and long-press frob to drag a body is fast enough and accurate. Video: Long-Press Frob to Pick Up Candle The purpose of this video is to show how the long-press frob to pick up a candle isn't really much slower than regular frob. Video: Frob to Extinguish The purpose of this video -- if a bit contrived -- is to show the efficiency and precision of this proposed feature. The task in the video was for the player to as quickly and accurately as possible extinguish candles and put them back in their original positions. On the left, TDM v2.11 is shown. The player has to highlight each candle, press "Frob/Interact" to pick up, press "Use Inv. Item" to extinguish, make sure the candle is back in place, and finally press "Frob/Interact" to drop the candle. The result shows mistakes and candles getting misplaced. On the right, the proposed feature is shown. The player frobs to extinguish the candles. The result shows no mistakes and candles are kept in their original positions. Special Thanks @Wellingtoncrab was instrumental in improving this feature during its early stages. We had many discussions covering varying scenarios, pros, and cons, and how it would affect the gameplay and player experience. Originally, I had a completely different solution that added a special "use modifier" keybinding. He suggested the frob to use and long-press frob to pick up mechanics. I coded it up, gave it a try, and found it to be too good. Without his feedback and patience, this feature wouldn't be as good as it is. Thank you, @Wellingtoncrab! And, of note, @Wellingtoncrab hasn't been able to try it in game yet, because I'm using Linux and can't compile a Windows build for him. So, if this feature isn't good, that's my fault. Code Patch I'll post the code patch in another post below this one so that folks who compile TDM themselves can give this proposal a try in game. And, if you do, I look forward to your feedback! Player Complaints TTLG (2023-01-10) Player 1: TDM Forums (2021-03-13) Player 2: Player 3: TDM Forums (2023-06-17) Player 4: TDM Discord (2021-05-18) Player 5: TDM Discord (2023-02-14) Player 6: Player 7: Player 8:

Mandrasola is a small sized map in which aspiring thief Thomas Porter steals some herbal products from a smuggler. The mission was created by me, Sotha and I wish to thank Bikerdude, BrokenArts and Ocn for playtesting and voice acting. Thanks goes naturally to everyone contributing and making TDM possible. This mission occurs chronologically before the Knighton's Manor, making it the first mission in the Thomas Porter series. Events in chronological order are: Mandrasola, The Knighton's Manor, The Beleaguered Fence, The Glenham Tower and The Transaction. The winter came early and suddenly this year. Weeks of strong blizzards and extremely harsh cold weather hit Bridgeport hard. With the seas completely frozen, a rare occurence indeed, most of the City harbor commerce has stopped completely. Vessels are stuck in the ice and no ship can leave or enter the City, resulting in the availability imported goods declining and their prices skyrocketing. One of these imported items is Mandrasola, a rare herbal product, which is imported overseas from the far southern continents. Mandrasola has its uses in alchemical cures and poisons, but mostly this substance is used for its narcotic qualities by commoners and even the nobility. The problem with Mandrasola is that excessive use is extremely addicting and the withdrawal effects are most grievious. Many are utterly incapable of stopping using Mandrasola and are transformed into quivering human ruins if they do no get their daily dose. And now this expensive and rare substance is running out from the whole City. Me and my fence, Lark Butternose, would love to grab this monopoly to ourselves: selling the last few doses in the City would probably be worth a fortune. According to Lark's sources, there remains only one smuggling lord who still has Mandrasola in stock. The problem is that this individual maintains an exclusive clandestine operation and only supplies a few nobles. Despite our best information gathering efforts we couldn't learn who the smuggler is and where he or she operates. Luckily we have an alternate plan. While searching for Mandrasola related information, we learned that a noblewoman called Lady Ludmilla is addicted to the substance and has paid high prices for small amounts of it. We also know that she has visited frequently someone in the Tanner's Ward waterfront, and since she goes to the area personally we believe she is visiting the smuggler. The plan is simple: I must monitor Ludmilla's most likely entryway to the Waterfront and then follow her to the smugglers hideout. I'd better be very careful around Ludmilla. She must not realise I'm following her or she probably won't lead me to her dealer. Hurting her is also out of the question. After she leads me to the smuggler's hideout, I can take my time to break in carefully and steal all the Mandrasola I can find. While I'm there it wouldn't be a bad idea to grab some loose valuables as well. I've now waited in the blistering cold for a few hours already. Looks like there are a few city watch patrols in the area to complicate matters... I think I heard a womans voice beyond the north gate. That must be lady Ludmilla, I haven't seen many ladies in these parts. I'd better get ready.. Links: Use the ingame downloader to get it. WARNING! Someone always fails to use spoiler tags. I do not recommend reading any further until you've played the mission.

@Mike__ could you please put this in spoiler tags?

Ulysses 2: Protecting the Flock By Sotha The mission starts some time after the events of Ulysses: Genesis, and continues the story of Ulysses. It is a medium sized mission with a focus on stealthy assassinations and hostage liberation. BUILD TIME: 12/2014 - 05/2015 CREDITS The TDM Community is thanked for steady supply of excellent mapping advice. Thanks goes also to everyone contributing to TDM! Voice Actors: Goldwell (as Goubert and Ulysses), Goldwell's Girlfriend (as Alis) Betatesters: Airship Ballet, Ryan101. Special Thanks to: Springheel and Melan (for proofreading). Story: Read & listen it in game. Link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwR0ORZU5sraRGduUWlVRmtsX3c/view?usp=sharing Other: Spoilers: When discussing, please use spoiler tags, like this: [spoiler] Hidden text. [/spoiler] Mirrors: Could someone put this on TDM ingame downloader? Thanks!

Hey, just as a FYI the gamepad bindings are always being reset, at least when running the game with idtech4a++ in android. Worse still since the default modifier key appears to be start AND start opens up the main menu/pauses the game you can't attack to start the mission and even if you could bypass that all actions depending on the mod key would fail. So you have to use the on-screen controller for idtech4a++ even if you have a real one. Please report this to the but tracker because I have no ability to do it right now.

Ok cool. Just tested Thieves Guild 1.02 with the GOG Rune Gold (1.07) version, in Linux via Lutris. Super easy to install. 1. Install Rune Gold via Lutris, I use winxp 32bit as installer preset. You select the installer ( setup_rune_gold_2.0.0.5.exe ) file that can be found in the Extras folder of the Rune Classic install. This will install Rune Gold 1.07. 2. Download Thief's Guild and copy the contents to ~/Rune-gold/drive_c/GOG Games/Rune Gold/ (where ~/Rune-Gold is the folder name and location where you installed it). No files get overwritten. 3. Click right mouse button on Rune-Gold Instance in Lutris and click in menu on "Configure". 4. Go to Tab "Game Options" and type behind "Arguments": tg When you start it, it will directly go to Thief's Guild. Via pressing the Esc-key in-game you can still start a regular Rune game if you want.

I have been playtesting a lot recently, and I remembered how great Daft Mugi's handling of grabbing body limbs feels: hold frob to grab, release frob to let go ("hold-type grabber"). It just feels immersive and works very well. So, I went ahead and refactored the whole frob handling code, cleaned it up and most importantly: made it extermely easy to setup different frob-control-styles. Details for those interested in the spoiler tag: Configurable frob-control-styles With that in place, I have setup three different control styles that can be controlled through the new cvar "tdm_frob_control_style". 0: TDM-style (short frob = grab, long frob = use [e.g. blow out candles, eat food, shoulder bodies...]. 1: Thief-style / 2.12 / Daft Mugi (Like TDM-style, but behavior for bodies is inverted so that shoulder bodies is on short frob and long frob has that nice hold-type-grabber described above) 2: TDM_inverted-style (TDM-style exactly inverted, i.e., short frob = use, long frob = hold-type-grabber finally consistently for all entities, my personal holy-grail ) I think TDM-style is what @snatcherhad in mind? Hopefully, this change will make many of you happy. New hold-frob control styles for doors I have also added in a completely new idea. There has been manual door fine control in the mod for quite some time. It can be enabled through tdm_door_control and then holding frob on a door and moving the mouse. I ironed out some of its issues, but it still didn't feel right to me. So, I thought of a new idea to make use of hold-frob for doors. tdm_door_control can now take 4 different values that change the hold-frob control of doors: 0: Disabled 1: Manual door fine control (experimental, existing feature) 2: Hold frob to slowly move doors. They are opened and closed alternatingly, just like regular frobbing a door, but interrupting a moving door is skipped. 3: Hold frob to slowly open doors. Additionally, I added in the ability to quickly force close a door by holding frob and pressing attack to all of the above control styles. The idea behind this addition is that the player can now slowly sneak and peak through a door, but then can also quickly shut the door again if the player deems the situation unsafe. This adds more skill expression and creates further immersion. 2.14 Beta? At the moment, it is not yet decided whether these changes will make it into 2.14 beta, as the changeset is quite massive. We might have to wait for the nearest developer build after 2.14 release.

Before I nuke the DR appdata files, can I ask if anyone else had the mouse freezing in DR..?

I was cautious because I didn't want it to be perceived that I was using The Dark Mod Forums to promote my mod but I get your point - we're all in this together. Over the years we've had a few different team members, but for the past few months it's mostly been just me and one other person. The Thieves Guild project started a long time ago, when Rune was still popular. We liked Thief and we also liked Rune so we combined the two games together. We incorporated all of the cloak & dagger elements from Thief but we also wanted our thief to be able to fight like a Viking. Don't get me wrong, it's definitely a thief/stealth game. Through the 20 or so missions, we tell a story about a thief working for the local thieves' guild, operating within a dark and corrupt city. Under the cover of night, you are assigned a series of dangerous missions - success is rewarded with valuable items, increased wealth, and greater prestige from within the guild. To survive, you must move silently through shadowed alleyways, scale heavily guarded buildings, bypass deadly traps, and pick stubborn locks - all while avoiding detection by the city watch and roaming night patrols. One misstep can mean capture, failure, or worse. In this city, survival belongs to those who remain unseen. Thieves Guild was designed to be played on a computer using a keyboard and mouse. Rune uses the Unreal Engine 1. I'm glad you liked what you saw in "The Dark Side Edition Trailer". This video is a walk-through of The Training Mission.

Congratulations on the release. It took me about 10 min to finish including the intro. Taking in to account how fast it was made, very impressive. completely irrelevant: Something I noticed for the first time in dark mod. While watching the pot boiling In the kitchen, found that the vertical azimuth sound localization of dark mod is amazing. I can tell with eyes closed exactly where this pot is on the up/down axis while moving the mouse around.

I've read about this before here on the forums, even when the contest had just recently concluded, but reading about it in greater detail years later is certainly interesting. Thank you. It's a pity that it was mostly the marketing people who were involved on the Square Enix side, as I had the impression it was also the devs at EM that had played Requiem and all the other submitted missions and really liked them. I suppose it was as well, but the TDM team mostly heard from the marketing people. Yes, I wanted to note that as well. I even remember how the people over here in the TDM forums were sort of laughing at the fact that the results of the contest were favourable to TDM and had, in a sense, "proven" TDM as a worthy freeware successor to the Thief IP, with all the modding and mapping tools at one's disposal and so on, whereas Thief 4 or Thi4f or whatever Square Enix were calling it at that point, offered no such possibilities. The entire contest, while no doubt declared in good will and something I actually appreciated seeing, was such a self-own for Square Enix, ultimately to the detriment of them trying to bring back and market the reboot of an older IP. Even if Thief 2014 was a terrific reboot (which I doubt it would ever be), it would still have been hampered by people learning about modding being impossible, and looking to the trilogy and to TDM instead, to make new Thief-style stealth gaming content. Still, I appreciate they recognized the quality's of Moonbo's Requiem FM. Given many retrospectives I've seen over the years, gradually, on the 2014 Thief reboot attempt, one thing a surprising amount of them shared was noting how the game didn't feel cohesive in concept and execution, at any point. Not only not to the same level as the Thief trilogy, but also not even at the level when you consider it as an individual game, a new game on its own. Errant Signal, who's not some deep Thief fan, replayed the older games and played the reboot back when it came out, and made this exact observation already a decade ago. The reboot was just all over the place, in every department, felt clearly unfinished or rushed, and the most interesting story would be the behind the scenes at Eidos Montreal, on how mismanaged the entire project became over the course of several years. I think it's telling that, while even heavily discounted on GOG.com, Thief 2014 hasn't been selling well there, nor attracting much interest, whereas the original trilogy sells for figurative (and sometimes literal) cents on that same site - you can buy the whole trilogy for a smaller price than the reboot, which is kind of hilarious - and continues to have great sales and is considered one of the all-time bestsellers. Same here. I concur with demagogue that the actual Eidos Montreal devs behind Thief 2014, at least those who cared enough to make it at least somewhat presentable and playable - even if the actual game directors never got their act together and never decided on a consistent design approach - those would have been much more interesting to be in contact with, even regarding the fan mission contest. The sad truth of the matter is that all too many big publishers these days, especially those formed through larger mergers, like the Eidos buyout by Square Enix, are often marketing-first, interest in developers, and veteran players and new players alike, second. I still remember the sheer amount of money spent on pointless external marketing for Thief 2014, all the while that reboot attempt never really coalesced into anything that felt consistent (rather than throwing everything at the wall, in a panic, hoping something would stick), and was also plagued by all manner of technical issues. Just an overall embarassment, and I'm not surprised that even very lenient-leaning game retrospectives of that reboot attempt. The fact that the Thief IP has been sold away to Nordic Games and Embracer in more recent years, with Square Enix no longer caring about it and other older game IPs, also says a lot. Given the Embracer Group's own woes and bad decisions, I'm not sure any new development team will ever attempt another installment of Thief, even if it was a second reboot attempt.

For the people eager to play with the latest state of development, two things are provided: regular dev builds source code SVN repository Development builds are created once per a few weeks from the current trunk. They can be obtained via tdm_installer. Just run the installer, check "Get Custom Version" on the first page, then select proper version in "dev" folder on the second page. Name of any dev version looks like devXXXXX-YYYY, where XXXXX and YYYY are SVN revision numbers from which the build was created. The topmost version in the list is usually the most recent one. Note: unless otherwise specified, savegames are incompatible between any two versions of TDM! Programmers can obtain source code from SVN repository. Trunk can be checked out from here: https://svn.thedarkmod.com/publicsvn/darkmod_src/trunk/ SVN root is: https://svn.thedarkmod.com/publicsvn/darkmod_src Build instructions are provided inside repository. Note that while you can build executable from the SVN repository, TDM installation of compatible version is required to run it. Official TDM releases are compatible with source code archives provided on the website, and also with corresponding release tags in SVN. A dev build is compatible with SVN trunk of revision YYYY, where YYYY is the second number in its version (as described above). If you only want to experiment with the latest trunk, using the latest dev build gives you the maximum chance of success. P.S. Needless to say, all of this comes with no support. Although we would be glad if you catch and report bugs before the next beta phase starts

Greetings everyone! I recently got into TDM and am already having a lot of fun playing through and ghosting missions. However, coming from Thief, I am mostly relying on the rules and my experience with that game, while there are clearly differences in how TDM works. Right now, there is talk in the ghosting discussion thread on TTLG to amend the ruleset and include clarifications pertaining to TDM. So I wanted to drop by and ask: is there an active TDM ghosting community already and have any rules for this playstyle been developed? I would also like to ask someone to take a look at the draft of this addendum to see whether everything looks correct: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148487&page=16&p=2473352&viewfull=1#post2473352 Thanks!

So this online store I bought a pair of headphones from decided to gift me 12$ today. Since the voucher would expire in in two weeks unless used and I had nothing else to get, I decided to spend it on a 17$ gamepad so I'd have one of these as well. I understand they should work fine under Linux these days, plus it supports both dinput and xinput so I'm not concerned. I never played any FPS or most games using something other than the keyboard and mouse, this feels like an interesting opportunity to try it out. TDM is one of the games I might enjoy playing with such a thing, especially since it doesn't require super-fast reactions till I get used to it like a deathmatch shooter. So until the device arrives tomorrow, I figured I'd ask how well I can expect TDM to run on such a thing! Especially now that we have a new rendering and input management system for the upcoming TDM 2.10. There's a few things I wanted to know. One is if both looking around as well as movement using the finger pads is supported. I remember some games allowed walking more slowly if you only pushed the pad slightly; Does this mean it's possible to sneak by only moving the pad a bit, in a way that affects how much guards hear you? Otherwise I was curious if force feedback (vibration) is implemented and used. For TDM this mainly makes sense when you take damage, are in radius of a sound that has the shake effect, and other potential situations I might be missing now. Is gamepad vibration a feature in the engine at least?

for an unknown reason i had problems with "INVERT MOUSE" in settings after i´ve done so i´ve not been satisfied with it - so i wanted to go back to " NO " but than i could not look up and down with the mouse any more . so after a while i used the " tdm_installer " to rebuild 2.13 (i have 2.13 two times ; one for pur TDM and an other for Snatcher-Mods) on the version with Snatcher-Mods this worked quite well - only checking the install and okay - Saves can still be played !!!! so i made a test and try on the other : there i got the same fault with " invert Mouse " so i tried the same rescue - but maybe because i may have clicked "custom version " this time something is overwriten (new hash ? - new Log ? ) is there a way to get my former 2.13 install - to be able to use the saves ? tdm_installer_new***new.log is telling : Removing old logfile: tdm_installer_old***old.log but this is nowhere to be found - and the old hash is ?? Edit : not so important - just discovered most of my important saves are in the Snatcher-version and an older 2.12 install but by the way : an only " repair " option would be nice and an new install of the same TDM-version should not make saves unplayable . to what are saves related ?

Glad I came to the forums to check out more details about this mission after playing. I was a little confused by a Bikerdude FM only taking 10mins to run through haha. Knowing it's a tech/build demo means I'm not going to spend the next hour or so looping through it trying to figure out if I missed a secret Krampus area or encounter xD.

It makes me really sad to read that you thought it wasn't appropriate to post about your work here. If we cannot discuss this incredible achievement from the Thief-like universe we love so much on a TDM forum, then I wonder by the Builder what else we're supposed to talk about here. 15 years? You alone (I hope not)? Could you be so kind and elaborate a little on your project? Is the game to be played with a game pad or with keyboard/mouse ? I really like the typical dark atmosphere, especially "The Dark Side Edition Trailer" provides for that.

You can ask people to test your mission here, but the beta tresting should be in this other section: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/forum/59-tdm-mission-beta-testing/ Read also: I think it's so that there are no spoilers in view for new regular players.