Search the Community

Madtaffer, could you repost this question on the Reddit thread here? That way it will be seen and answered in the right place.

@datiswous, @Daft Mugi, @wesp5, there are some valid points and questions raised in this thread, which I am happy to address in a lengthy post soon, but at the moment, I am really sick with a nasty cold, so I feel I can't do them justice. Maybe another team member will answer them in my stead, otherwise, you will just have to wait until I feel better. In any case, @Mods, could you please move this discussion to a separate thread like "About our release and decision making processes"? This has nothing to do with beta anymore. FYI: To check which team members are still active, you can just visit their profile and check their "last visited" timestamp. Edit: I now saw that @Dragoferalready gave a good answer to most questions, thanks.

This is a bit late notice (apologies for that), but there's an announcement to be made. I saw it wasn't in this subforum yet, so I'm posting it now so you can all see it. This Saturday (Jan. 28), tomorrow, The Dark Mod team is going to participating in an "Ask Me Anything" (AMA) session on the PCGaming Reddit page starting from 3pm CET / 9am EST. Edit: Here is the official AMA thread! https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/10nfcwj/hello_we_are_the_international_development_team/ They told us it should be stickied and open for questions all day long, so if you see this much later, you can still take a look and participate. Many of your favorite TDM team members ought to be there. (I plan on being in around the background at least.) I think there will be a lot of talk about the inner workings of TDM's development, so if you've ever been curious how TDM got made, why certain decisions were made, what are some interesting stories from the inside, or you're just interested in how games are made generally, I think you'll get something out of it. I think we can also use this thread as a follow up, if you want to talk more about anything brought up in the AMA, post it here and we can have our own little discussion too. I haven't asked anybody else if that's a good idea, but I think it's a good idea, so I'm running with it. Hope everyone interested and available can make it! Cheers!

In a private message on Monday (2022-01-16), I asked about some patches. Then, I was asked why I waited until the second half of beta testing. My reply was "(1) I recently shared some config with Thief players and some expressed interest in TDM. So, I decided to write a guide. (2) I've been beta testing a mission, so I've uncovered these recently. (3) I don't know the beta release schedule, so I don't know where we are in the process." In a private message on Tuesday (2022-01-24), I was asked when I would be done with my patches for 2.11. I gave a list, and there was no definitive communication from the dev team that they would not be considered for 2.11. Just that patches would need to stop soon, because the dev team was deciding when to end beta testing. It seemed that I was given the go ahead. I didn't want to hold up the beta's (unknown) schedule anymore, so I put in extra time and effort to get all of my patches in no later than the next day (Wednesday) to give the dev team time. In a private message on Wednesday (2022-01-25), I told a developer, "I've submitted all the patches that I've planned: 6241, 6231, 5892. I'm ready for feedback and fixing any issues with those patches. That'll be it from me for 2.11." I was given some feedback about (5892), and there was no mention that my patches would be excluded from 2.11. This week's work getting into the next beta was going to be my personal triumph and moment to be proud of, because my hard work was going to be done for 2.11. My patches were already submitted, after all. Now, it's ending in a bust. After my post yesterday, I found out that one of my patches that had already been accepted in SVN for both code and assets will be reverted and postponed until 2.12. No reason given. I had checked SVN to make sure it was applied correctly and made sure the core assets were correct. I've been playing with the latest SVN code and haven't encountered any issues with that patch. Now, I don't know the state of that code. (As an aside, I don't have read access to the assets SVN, so I had to request the changed files from a dev.) The patch is for (6242). That patch fixes a bug that can be read about on (thread). Does the dev team think those players are going to be happy that this patch was reverted and won't be available for an entire year? I fixed that for the players, not myself. For (5892), a feature requested by Bikerdude. This was a reason given for not allowing mantle while carrying a body: On Saturday (2022-01-21), the "tdm_mantle_while_shouldering" cvar was accepted and merged into SVN. Bikerdude replied: Now, if I'm understanding right, that cvar will be removed and not included in 2.11. Bikerdude is one of the most prominent mission authors, is he not? Now, Bikerdude's feature is being taken away. A less prominent contributor, myself, is getting his contributions reverted. It's a shame, because my fixes and suggestions mostly come from listening to the community and dev feedback. Submitting patches is a lot of effort, and I could keep those changes to myself instead. My work is for the players, not myself. Usually, I don't propose something or act on something unless I see other players having the same issue as I've experienced. I think TDM is mostly fine as is. It's not like I'm suggesting new arrows, how doors work, rewriting AI, or something like that. I'm at a tipping point of losing trust in this project, because this situation is fixable. Miscommunication happens. How it's handled matters. I did my best to communicate and hold true to no more patches after this week. Also, the dev team could have told me something like "any patches submitted after X date will not be considered until after the beta cycle." From my point of view, the dev team suddenly changed course from Tuesday's "deciding when to end beta testing" to Thursday's "still unknown but sooner than before, I guess?", and the proposed solution from the dev team is "Tough. Deal with it." or "Don't like it? Fork it." instead of "Let's do one additional beta release" to get everything worked out (whether or not patches get included). I think one more beta release to get these completed or decided on is fair, because that's what the agreement seemed to be, as vague as it was. I'm doing this for free as well, and it sure doesn't feel good to see my work handled in this manner.

Subtitle capabilities available in 2.10/2.11 are described in the wiki "Subtitles". For info about one new project using these capabilities, see the thread "English Subtitles for AI Barks". That project includes development of a TDM subtitle style guide. The thread here is mainly focused on ideas that would require future engine changes to implement. A. Automatic Switching Between Subtitle Languages Based on Settings This is a follow-on of a forum discussion between datiswous and Geep. It is desirable to have a standardized method for: subtitles to be authored in multiple languages, and so packaged and distributed as part of TDM and its FMs a gamer to dynamically select subtitles in a desired language The subtitle language choice might be controlled by the existing TDM language choice within Settings, or a separate "Subtitles Language" setting. B. Other Possible Improvements Requiring Engine Changes Most of these involve allowing the subtitle code to know something about game entities, and convey that to the gamer. Examples of useful knowledge: the ID of the speaker (or other source) the location of the speaker, relative to the player, the player's view, and other speaking AI. This type of information helps to disambiguate when there are multiple voices present. There are lots of ways such info is visually conveyed in other subtitle/caption systems, and might be added to TDM. C. Providing Subtitles for Existing FX These would have the "verbosity effects" subtitle tag. Beyond 2.11 capabilities, some of the location aspects of (B) would be pertinent.

Multiple guards (up to 3) should have their speech appear in separate fields. Within the limitations of 2.10/2.11, my draft guidance for generic barks ("verbosity speech") is never to include AI name info. However, for an FM-specific phrase ("verbosity story") just said by one character, you could include the name or other ID. (I'm still researching if there is a consensus on best-practice format to indicate the name). Beyond 2.11, color is one of many way to go. Reminds me, I was going to set up another thread for that... done. See link to Subtitles - Beyond 2.11 in OP above.

I think the reason the dev forums exist is to provide a place where the implementation of features can be discussed without getting mixed up with other debates when someone believes what the devs are doing is wrong. We often post public discussion threads for features with subjective elements like the frob outline, because community feedback is very important. But there will always be vocal defenders with strong views for or against certain features, or how exactly it should be implemented in their opinion. At some point a decision has to be made and be carried through, which is what the dev forums are for. Almost all of the threads are very technical, basically explaining and discussing recent or potential code changes with other devs. Its hard to say. Its a hobby the devs do in their spare time, so people come and go when they're in the mood and when they have the time. The team page is mostly accurate except for some relatively newer additions like myself.

This is basically "do include my work ASAP because I worked so hard, or else *sulk*". This is similar case: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21679-beta-testing-211/page/10/#comment-482352 This is neither a commercial product, nor a phishing email. That sense of rush and pressure is artificial. These releases typically do take long, and even then, there are often many things broken by mistake or omission. Often there aren't enough people to test stuff, or they're not competent enough, etc, etc. There's little point in hurry.

I guess I'll chime in here for clarity. When the TDM Dev Build thread is active: This is when big changes and contributions are supposed to be welcome. When we are in "Beta Testing" it is supposed to be a code freeze period where only regression fixes are applied. Sometimes a fix or improvement that shouldn't be in a beta phase gets added anyway if it is seen as exceptionally beneficial, but every time this is done it can potentially extend the beta testing for another 2 weeks or more and during that additional 2 weeks even more fixes and improvements are proposed by eager contributors which can potentially lead to a never ending beta. I am not particularly bothered by a long dev build phase, nor a long beta and am inclined to wait a long time until new official releases are available. Players, on the other hand, generally aren't keen on using Dev Builds so we need to stop at some point and christen something as official if only for the sake of getting more feedback in case regressions slipped through Dev or Beta testing. Let's be clear though, neither TDM 2.10 or 2.11b7 are "unplayable garbage". Enhancements are fantastic but if 2.11 doesn't include every improvement you can conjure it will still be better than 2.10 which is already an excellent TDM version. I am still in favor of most or all of your improvements making it into 2.11 but we have to follow the process and need to have agreement from the team about what happens next. If you disagree with the way that we rollout "dev > beta > release" cycles and want to offer your fixes before they go into TDM official release, I suggest you consider creating a fork project. You can call it "The Darker Mod" , "Better Dark Mod Enhanced", etc, any of the monikers you typically see on enhancement projects on Moddb. If your fork becomes popular then it may be the main one that players use sorta like how Debian Linux is the core project but most people use Ubuntu or Linux Mint. ( If you made such a fork, I would probably ask that you integrate my fresnel shader mod into it. )

Introduction A project is underway, led by Geep, to eventually provide English language subtitles (or if you prefer, "closed captions") for all the non-story phrases (e.g., barks) of the stock AI characters. The non-story phrases are identified by the "verbosity speech" subtitle tag. The hope is that these subtitles would be distributed as part of the future TDM 2.12 core and so available to all FMs, both old and new. Since there are 5-10K such phrases in total, this project will take a while. Let me know if you'd like to help. This forum thread can be used for project coordination, and to provide info about - What subtitle sets (e.g., for particular AI) are underway and completed Emerging tools or methods for bulk testing Style guidance for TDM subtitle authors. To support this project, a style guide will be developed as experience accumulates. While motivated by providing some consistency to English speech-tagged subtitles, it may be of some interest to FMers creating story-tagged subtitles, and those subtitling in other TDM-supported languages. Potential improvements to TDM's subtitling system - particularly those that would involve engine/GUI changes - can be discussed in this companion thread: Subtitles - Possibilities Beyond 2.11 Current Status - Subtitles for Barks All TDM vocal sets planned for TDM 2.12 have been delivered. New: Fixup Needed to Run These Under 2.12 Beta 3 The Thug - Update May 6, 2023 released as testSubtitlesThug2 FM. This takes advantage of new 2.12dev features and changes to style guidelines. The Lord - Update May 4, 2023 released as testSubtitlesLord2 FM The Wench - Two postponed April versions - Nov 25, 2023 released as testSubtitlesWenchOriginal and testSubtitlesWenchPatched FMs. Two versions because of Bugtracker 6284. IMPORTANT: See final version at end of this list, released Jan. 14, 2024. The Young Builder (Builder 4) - Update May 30, 2023 released (again) as testSubtitlesYoungBuilder FM. (Corrects error in briefing syntax of original May 17 release.) Average Jack - June 8, 2023 released as testSubtitlesJack FM. The Pro - June 23, 2023 released as testSubtitlesPro FM. The Maiden - July 8, 2023 released as testSubtitlesMaiden FM The Grumbler - July 24, 2023 released as testSubtitlesGrumbler FM The Mature Builder (Builder 3) - August 15, 2023, released as testSubtitlesMatureBuilder FM The Lady (aka Noblewoman) - Sept 9, 2023, released as testSubtitlesLady FM The Moor - Sept 14, 2023, released as testSubtitlesMoor FM The Commander - Sept 30, 2023, released as testSubtitlesCommander FM The Simpleton - Oct. 21, 2023, released as testSubtitlesSimpleton FM Builder 1 & 2 (shared vocal set) - Nov. 8, 2023, released as testSubtitlesBuilder1and2 FM The Critic - Nov. 25, 2023, released as testSubtitlesCritic_FM Manbeast - Dec. 10, 2023, released as testSubtitlesManbeast FM NEW! Lady02 - Dec 21, 2023, released as testSubtitlesLady02 FM. Assisted by datiswous. NEW! The Drunk - Jan 6, 2024, released as testSubtitlesDrunk FM. Assisted by MirceaKitsune. NEW! The Cynic - Jan. 13, 2024, released as testSubtitlesCynic FM. Incorporates early demo subtitles by Dragofer. NEW! The Wench, Final Revision - Jan. 14, 2024, released as testSubtitlesWenchFinal FM . Assisted by Dragofer. See also original May version (released in November) in the list above. All TDM vocal sets planned for TDM 2.12 have been delivered. Thanks, @nbohr1more, for integrating these into the release. All AI vocal sets, including additional ones for future consideration - perhaps as "verbosity effects" - are listed here. Current Status - Utilities buildSubtitleShader.exe - Latest release of April 10, 2023. This program fabricates a TDM sound shader file specifically for the testSubtitles... series of FMs used here. It does so by wrapping each sound file name in a directory into a sound shader with uniform incremental naming. While limited to a single directory, the latest release simplifies merging runs from multiple directories. @datiswous reports that this Windows console program also works under Linux/wine, where it is used with similar "testSubtitle..."-derived FMs for verbosity "story" subtitling. checkDurationsInSRT - May 6, 2023 Update (bug fix) This Win/console program scans a directory for .srt files, examines the subtitles, and warns about those phrases/messages that are potentially too short or too long in time, or that seem to require too high a reading rate, expressed in characters per second. It also looks for within-file subtitle messages that overlap in time. soundDurationsCSV.exe - March 7, 2023 Release This Windows console program scans a directory of sound files, reporting their names and (using pre-installed ffprobe) durations with millisecond resolution. The resulting .csv file can then be imported into a custom Excel spreadsheet for subtitle editing. For more, see also Feb 20th comments . findTooLongSubtitles.exe - Minor update, June 23, 2023 Release This Win/console program scans a directory for .subs and .srt files, checks the length in characters of each subtitle line, and reports those that exceed a specified maximum. analyzeFieldWidth of April 27, 2023 (release not scheduled; too idiosyncratic). Used to determine, for 12pt Carleton font, and a representative sampling of bark subtitles, how many characters might reasonably fit within a given gui field width. Later, parts of this code were used to build calcStringWidth.exe discussed next. calcStringWidth.exe - Oct. 11, 2023 Release. Calculates the display width of an input string, for 4 candidate subtitle fonts Carleton and Stone, uncompressed or 16:9 compressed. statsForSubtitles - June 25, 2023 Release. Starting with The Pro vocal set, this Windows console program automates the gathering and reporting of the basic statistics included with the announcement of every vocal set release in this forum thread. Current Status - Spreadsheets and Related Explanatory Documents, including Workflow and Templates Work by Geep on each vocal set starts with instantiation of a pre-configured Excel spreadsheet. This is used for subtitle editing and to do automatic calculations to help manage constraints and decision making. The announcement of each AI subtitle release here includes a link to the corresponding spreadsheet. At first, the spreadsheet's columns, formats, calculations, and highlighting (and its distillation into template form) would change quite a bit between each AI. As of June, 2023 and AverageJack, it has largely stabilized, and is now documented: June 10 Documents Explaining Workflow and Excel Spreadsheet/Template (for AverageJack) The v5 template was used for vocal sets from June's Average Jack to November's The Critic. Further clarifications are now available: Dec 7 Update of the "Explained" Doc for Spreadsheet Template v5 Subsequent vocal sets, through to 2024's The Cynic, use template v6: NEW! Jan. 10, 2024 "Explained" Doc for Spreadsheet Template v6 Current Status - Style Guide for Barks As of Sept 2, Subtitle Style Guide - Part 1 is now available. NEW! As of Jan 16, 2024: Subtitle Style Guide - Part 2 with more discussion and references. Current Status - Third-Party Tools For editing of "story" SRT files, datsiwous found "kdenlive" particularly helpful [to do: link to how-to below]. Geep has been working with the simpler, audio-only "Cadet" for barks.

I've spent a lot of time recently submitting patches to fix some bugs and working on a few things that I think would really improve the feel of TDM for 2.11. They are very small changes, and they are meant to polish what's already there without changing or breaking anything for anyone. (Available 2.11 beta 7) Added player "tdm_toggle_sheathe" cvar and "Toggle Sheathe" setting (6232) (thread). Renamed "New Missions" to "Missions List" in main menu (6230). @nbohr1more cleaned up my original patch. Originally, proposed by @snatcher (post). Fixed initial difficulty highlight on Objectives screen (6229). @stgatilov cleaned up my original patch. Fixed Objectives title slightly cut off on low text scale (6234). @stgatilov cleaned up my original patch. Made it possible for the player to change "pm_noclipspeed", so noclip speed can be set (6237). (Available in next beta) Make "tdm_toggle_creep" work like other toggle cvars, and add "Toggle Creep" to the settings menu (6242) (thread). (Not available) Make the inventory parchment background (dds file) separate from the "Missions List" parchment background (dds file). Without the patch, if you change the inventory background, it will also change the main menu. Patch submitted (6241) to decouple the inventory background from the main menu. This is meant for players who want to edit the inventory background (dds file) themselves (e.g. reduce its brightness without affecting the main menu). When you drop a long distance and land in a mantle, damage is shown after the mantle animation is complete. Partial fix submitted (6231). I think I'll need @stgatilov's help on this one. Bikerdude was very kind and provided a test map for this, which helped to expose an issue with my original patch. ("pm_mantle_while_shouldering" cvar available in 2.11 beta 7) It was requested by Bikerdude one year ago to allow mantling while carrying a body. Due to feedback, I've submitted three patches each with a different behavior, starting in August 2022 (5892) (thread) : (Patch v1) Always enable mantling while carrying a body. (Patch v2) Only enable mantling while carrying a body if "pm_mantle_while_shouldering" cvar is set. This is already available in 2.11 beta 7. (Patch v3) Restrict mantling at the waist. There is no agreement about how this should work yet. I've spent over 12 hours of work and testing on (v3) so far, so it would be incredibly discouraging if a final decision is not made between versions (v1), (v2), or (v3) for 2.11. Personally, I think patch (v1) always enable mantling while carry a body is best. This matches Thief 1 & 2 and does not require a cvar. If (v3) is chosen, the rules need to be decided. These are the final issues / bug trackers I have for 2.11. I hope they can make it into the final release of 2.11, because I think it would make TDM feel more polished and give a better first impression for newcomers. And, Thief players would have a better first time.

Sorry it does work in beta 10258. Sorry I was using one 2 versions older. Since this isn't the beta thread I didn't think it would matter. Thanks. Pretty cool! I never use creep up to now, this is what I noticed: If you press esc to go to main menu and then back, it disables creep. Same for console. If you keep the SHIFT key pressed while in creep, you move at the same speed (as normal creep), but make more noise. Crouch doesn't make creep slower.

I didn't see a feature request for this in the 2.12 Roadmap, nor specifically addressed by bug reports returned by a search for "subtitle" and addressed during 2.11 work (namely 2454, 5914, 6197, 6230). An argument could be made to have a new main menu setting for "subtitle language", separate from "[menu] language". This would be more flexible (and more like TV CC), but arguably less convenient. I'm unsure if this is ripe for a request now, or needs a new forum thread to mull implications of possible implementations.

I'll probably change "Sheathe / Equip" to just "Toggle". Other than that, I have moved the thread to a more popular subforum to get more attention.

This was done in 2.03, and immediately caused a private discussion about whether it makes sense or not: I wonder if and why @wesp5 thinks toggling weapon is better than putting away. The thread also says that perhaps this change was discussed/requested by more people, but that's pretty vague. So yeah, cvar is not a problem, it's just that nobody will know about it. Unless someone publishes a "NewDark compatibility cvar list"

Looking at the source code and the core pk4 asset files, I don't see any changes that would make a difference. Does this happen with a single FM? Does the FM pk4 file include an "autoexec.cfg" file? From the source code, here's the load order of config files. exec default.cfg exec Darkmod.cfg exec DarkmodKeyboard.cfg exec DarkmodPadbinds.cfg ==> exec autoexec.cfg <load language> <exec command-line arguments> <init input> <init sound> <init OpenGL> <init ui> <load DLL> <init session> ==> exec autocommands.cfg Details about the addition of "autocommands.cfg" are at https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=3199 I thought "autocommands.cfg" was the right way to do it, because that is what I've read on the forums. It seems that "autocommands.cfg" was originally designed for one use case: running "dmap". However, maybe over time "autocommands.cfg" became the de facto config file for user commands and "autoexec.cfg" became the config file for FM authors to use. I don't know. Does anyone know for a fact whether or not this is the case?

Still very relevant since a solution to our lack of reflections hasn't been found, this is the type of thread revival I find most welcome. We've been talking about PBR (whether in general or for TDM) and I've been intrigued on whether we can get proper reflections using the specular maps of textures as (reverse) roughness. With the release of 2.11 not far away I've been wanting to hope some sort of solution might make it in time even if that seems unlikely. https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=5239 There's currently an open ticket on implementing light probes that can automatically capture a cubemap from a given position. The technique used here would definitely come in handy for such a thing! An issue with those is mappers would need to add them manually: I'd really prefer an universal solution like SSR so it can work on all FM's without requiring the mapper to enable it, same way SSAO came as an universal improvement. Thus my first idea was rendering a realtime cubemap from the player's POV each frame or every X frames... that would brutalize performance however, especially as it would open all portals around the player to capture a 360* panorama (goodbye view culling). Also it's worth remembering we're dealing with two independent yet interconnected issues here: Ambient lighting and reflection. Ideally a single solution can tackle both, lighting walls with the ambiance of the room as well as showing the reflected view that moves around with the camera. If we were to do it right maybe we could use a smart cubemap to achieve bounce lighting / realtime irradiance... I'm probably going so far off there, still who knows

https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6227 Cannot reproduce on rev 9985... moving forward Rev 10036 is good... moving forward Rev 10071 is good Rev 10071 with matching 16599 dev assets = good ( no crash ) ( maybe try to run the latest SVN with 16599 assets plus the blackjack patch assets ? ) Rev 10071 with 10107 assets = crash Rev 10072 = crash ( all testing was done with 10107 assets, if 10071 crashes the next step might be to revert assets too... that said, if 10107 asset changes are responsible TDM still shouldn't crash ) Rev 10073 = crash ( may need to retest 10071 ) Rev 10078 = crash Rev 10092 = crash Rev 10093 = crash Rev 10095 = crash Rev 10107 = crash Nothing in Rev 10093 should cause a crash like this. New backtrace seems similar to the old one but uses different hash lookup ? Thread 11 "thedarkmod.x64" received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. [Switching to Thread 0x7fffaf6bf700 (LWP 3026)] idDict::FindKey (this=0x80, key=key@entry=0x12e8bfb "pre_pickup_origin") at /home/user/tdm_src/new/piggie/darkmod_src/idlib/Dict.cpp:462 462 for ( int i = argHash.First( hash ); i != -1; i = argHash.Next( i ) ) { (gdb) bt #0 idDict::FindKey (this=0x80, key=key@entry=0x12e8bfb "pre_pickup_origin") at /home/user/tdm_src/new/piggie/darkmod_src/idlib/Dict.cpp:462 #1 0x000000000074f67a in idDict::GetString (out=<synthetic pointer>, defaultString=0x12995cc "0 0 0", key=0x12e8bfb "pre_pickup_origin", this=<optimized out>) Going back to 10092 to see if I missed the crash somehow. Yep, same crash there. Rolling back to an earlier one... Ran outta time. I will continue tomorrow ( unless someone else wants to build from source and bisect between 10071 and 10078 )

I know this thread is meant to stick to bugs introduced by 2.11 changes, but I hope it's ok to ask for the following to be fixed, since they are crashes. Keyhole peek crash bug on Linux (https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=5553). Crash during combat (Not sure if there is a ticket for that yet). This is easily reproducible in the Training Mission. If these can be fixed before 2.11's release, I think it would really improve first impressions of TDM and really help current players who "iron mode" the game.

So I think we can count 12 or 14 missions depending on our opinion of La Banque Bienveillante and Sneak and Destroy. If these two reissues are counted as new missions (as JarlFrank did here: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152035), then we have 14 missions. If not, then 12. Personally, I don't consider them new missions, so 12 in my opinion. Have no problem with other opinion. In any case, last year was productive!

@LuxQSD Thanks for playing and the very useful bug reports! You're making some interesting connections I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere in the thread, so you seem like a very thoughtful player and I am glad in the end you enjoyed the mission. Thanks again for playing!

My dream is for forums.thedarkmod.com to link to thedarkmod.com