Search the Community

Black Parade is released ! https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152429

Good post, @TheUnbeholden. Here is more food for thought. When I started playing TDM I wished there were more mods. I came here and knocked on a door or two. TDM is a sandbox for Mappers. Should TDM, perhaps, be a sandbox for Modders as well? Mods can fill gaps, propel gameplay in new directions, spoil customers with different options, fulfill audiences with different expectations... and last but not least, release the Developers from specific player demands, needs or preferences. Mappers and Modders can do a lot today and that is because, by necessity or plain good judgement, somebody at some point unlocked a door somewhere.

... and it forced you to play the same area again and again and again. Well, to each his own, but, that's not a gameplay that I enjoy.

Its not that people are dismissing the game because of lack of shouldering, but rather a combination of things. That would be a real argument that the following occurs; 1. People don't know how to keep from making noise when moving stuff around (holding creep). 2. People don't know when black jacking works and when it doesn't (general options menu toggle). 3. Blackjack hits overhead stone overhead archway or wooden foundation (was fixed). 4. Picking up a blackjacked guard should be easy and players should know how to do it right away (new). 5. Not know how to extinguish candles and lanterns (easier and new). 6. Not knowing about general gameplay tips specific to missions (new). 7. Not being able to use favorite addons together (new). 8. Being able to know how much loot is left in a mission and mission stats like stealth score mid mission to properly ghost w/o too much spent on replaying parts of a mission (pending and in a addon). 9. Guards either searching for the noise disturbance for too long, or giving up too quickly and thus making some small missions either really tough for small mistakes or far too easy to get through (difficulty changes proposed by some). Many of these are not fixable without a global tip system for first time players, a expanded tutorial mission, and quality of life changes (a general gameplay change is not always about accessibility, options and cvars exist for that reason, but sometimes its about making it so that a button press should do what most players intentions aim to do, 95% of the time.

Body awareness please. https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/20013-are-you-gonna-add-this/

If the "mission fails as soon as stealth score turns non-zero," that would not be good for ghost players. They might need to find out "how" they failed and experiment to avoid alerting guards. They might need to take those score points as a "bust". They might need to take those score points to complete an objective. Then, mission authors would need to encode exceptions into their missions, which would be a lot of work (if they decide to do it at all). However, part of what makes ghosting challenging and fun is when mission authors do not create their missions with ghosting in mind. Please see: Official Ghosting Rules: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148523 Writing code for these rules would be a huge undertaking. Ghost Rules Discussion: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148487 Creating an official mode could alienate these dedicated ghost players, because it would clash with what is considered ghosting in the community. Including the Stealth Stat Tool mod in the official release would be more useful. Or, making the audible alert states of guards quick and easy to recognize could help as well. For these reasons, I don't agree with an official "Ghost" mode. If the dev team were to do it, we should consult with @Klatremus so we get it 100% correct or not pursue it at all. (This ghosting bit should probably be in its own thread.)

I loved it. Awesome game. I faceplanted at the people who asked for quest markers in the Steam forums there... Herr, lass Hirn regnen. The game is so great, and so true to the original, because it doesn't hold your hand. When is the new breed of gamers gonna learn.

Congratuliations on the release and what incredible quality for a first-timer. The story was really neat and felt very authentic. Gameplay-wise, I also had a lot of fun, although it got really messy at times. You see, I like to play with the rule to only reload when I am dead, so I am forced to play through my mistakes, which can be really fun. A mistake in this mission often meant, that almost all the guards got alerted because a huge portion of the mansion is connected without any doors. And with so many guards, trouble often snowballed, which made this mission pretty difficult. So many guards in one spot also very frequently lead to AI misbehavior like continuously running into a wall etc. For your future missions (hoping there weill be more), I would suggest to split up areas more so that not so many guards come flocking on you on a single mistake.

A couple more: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21739-resolved-allow-mantling-while-carrying-a-body/ https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22211-feature-proposal-new-lean-for-tdm-212/ https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22198-feature-proposal-frob-to-use-world-item/ https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22249-212-auto-search-bodies/

I'm happy to present my first FM, The Spider and the Finch. There may be a spider, but no ghosts or undead. It should run a couple hours. It's now available on the Missions page or the in-game downloader. Many thanks to the beta testers Acolytesix, Cambridge Spy, datiswous, madtaffer, Shadow, and wesp5 for helping me improve and making the mission to the best of my abilities. This would not be have been possible without Fidcal's excellent DarkRadiant tutorial. Thanks also to the many people who answered my questions in the TDM forums. Cheers! 2023-12-13 Mission updated to version 3. Fixed a bug where the optional loot option objective was not actually optional. Updated the animations for Astrid Added a hallway door so the guards are less likely to be aggroed en masse.

OMG I loved this. It's not one of the giant ultra-fancy FM's like Iris, but it did so much so well! Great in every aspect... visuals, story, gameplay, performance, even had more dynamic objectives that broke a bit from the ordinary patterns. I found less than half the loot in this one though, likely missed many optional areas and secrets... not good, will have to go back in or replay to see what I've missed. From those wonders that I did find... Managed to find two bugs worth noting, both in the same area:

The magic temple / monastery of a new FM concept I'm working on. The flames will be part of the gameplay and represent progress in some form, will address the details as I go.

Public release v1.7.6 (with Dark Mod support) is out. Improvements since the final beta 14 are: Fixed a few remaining bugs with zip/pk4 support. Game Versions window now properly displays TDM version. Import window no longer has a vestigial off-screen TDM field (because TDM doesn't need or support importing). Web search option is now disabled if an unknown/unsupported FM is selected. If an FM with an unknown or unsupported game type is selected, the messages in the tab area now no longer refer to Thief 3 ("Mod management is not supported for Thief: Deadly Shadows"). The full changelog can be viewed at the release link. The de facto official AngelLoader thread is here: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149706 Bug reports, feature requests etc. are usually posted there. I'll continue following this thread though. Thanks everyone and enjoy!

Good work! I enjoy short missions because things are nice and focused - you get in, you get out. Also I tend to do better with the loot amounts and I was able to get all the loot without too much trouble, which is rare for me. If I were to make a suggestion though - I found the intro briefing sequence a bit distracting because it was so obvious the narration was pitch-shifted to make a deeper voice. If you felt the original voice wasn't deep enough for your needs, I would either get someone on the forums to record it for you or just leave as is. That's my only real complaint and it's not even about the mission itself, so pretty good first start!

Beta 11 Fix finished-on state auto-update was unreliable Slighty improve scanner title/author detect Tags are now named some whatever regular-version-looking thing to force GitHub to put the newest at the top

I have certainly done my share of awkwardly shoving bodies into dark corners and behind furniture in TDM. I don't think I've ever successfully put them inside or under furniture. TDM bodies are (rightly) pretty rigid in my experience. However, @AluminumHaste, you have repeatedly shown yourself to be the top authority and wizard on what is or isn't possible in TDM. If you want to put up one of your meme-worthy videos I will gladly eat my words on this point. I am ready to be dazzled by the dozens of ways TDM lets you hide bodies. Otherwise slow experimentation and experience must convince me. I think the reason you need the current system is that TDM's un-shouldering is deliberately way more restrictive than Thief's, and the reason for that (circa 2010) was to force you to use the fancy new ragdoll dragging gimmick. You have Stockholm syndrome. That is why I think this matter must be debated. The nays have successfully argued that we can't have easy and maximally-discoverable candle pinching because there are two or three missions where you need to move a lit candle, among dozens where you need to pinch them, and you-all will continue to argue that easy and discoverable body shouldering is a mistake because it makes life marginally harder in the occasional situations where manual body dragging is needed. But what we should be debating is a patch to make unshouldering less restrictive. Or maybe I'm off my rocker. Unfortunately I can't prove a negative, so it is up to you to provide counter examples where these systems create fun gameplay challenges. Show me the receipts and you win.

Show me some receipts then. Cool features are cool because they create cool moments and stories. For example, mantling is super cool. If a guard is chasing you and there is a low roof nearby you can mantle up to make a clutch escape. And maybe then you find a hidden vent or something and your entire approach to the level changes. That's a cool moment and a cool story. Similarly, pinching out candles is super cool because it can create moments where the player needs to rush across a room and pinch out a candle before an enemy rounds spots them, changing how the player will approach the room. And I will freely admit, stacking boxes and planks with TDM's physics objects system is super cool. It opens up a lot of platforming possibilities. But where is the equivalent for the ragdoll bodies or being able to pick up and turn over every apparently-not-silver teapot? Ragdoll bodies could be cool if, for example, you could stuff bodies into chests or under beds to hide them. However I don't think anyone does that. Usually it won't work because the body won't fit and you will make a huge racket in the process of trying. In fact it is super-lame because it seems like TDM should allow that kind of gameplay with the ragdolls feature, but it doesn't. Same with object manipulation. What does picking up and manipulate every (non-valuable) plate, hat, cup, and apple actually let you do? You can throw them to distract guards, but that would also be true if they just went into your inventory, like bottles in other stealth games. There could also be loot or important items hidden under them, except in practice it can't be anything important because TDM's object selection is imprecise and its collisions tend to send objects flying or clipping into the world. So what we actually gets is coins and purses hidden under hats... gripping. Edit: Note, I'm not saying these gimmicky features should be removed though. That would break back compatibility with older missions, which no one wants. But we should stop giving object manipulation place-of-pride over more impactful mechanics like shouldering bodies in our tutorials, FMs, and default control bindings.

I'd like to better understand what you want. The design of dragging bodies is to hold frob (key down) to drag and release frob (key up) to let go. That way it's impossible to walk away while unintentionally dragging a body. Plus, it's quick to grab and move several body limbs in rapid succession. This is thought to provide a better experience, especially for new players. Towards the beginning of this thread, I created a "tdm_frobhold_drag_body_behavior" cvar. https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22198-feature-proposal-frob-to-use-world-item/&do=findComment&comment=487580 "tdm_frobhold_drag_body_behavior", default:"1" Which drag body behavior? 1 --- on frob key up, drop body (limb). 0 --- on second frob, drop body (limb), TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior. That cvar was removed shortly afterwards, because it was said that it wasn't needed. With that cvar set to 0, a second frob would be required to let go of the body. Is that the behavior that you want? If so, I can add that cvar back. Also, I saw elsewhere that you want the ability to revert back to the old way. If you mean that all of the controls match TDM 2.11, that can be done with "tdm_frobhold_delay 0" and there will be a menu setting to disable it as well.

Extensive customization options are appropriate during the pre-release testing or early roll out of a new feature. The people testing the feature can't know yet what configuration will work best for them, much less the people making the patch. My expectation is that by the time you have to make a final decision about including this patch in the next official update of TDM, there will be a rough consensus about the optimal parameters for the new mechanics, and you will only need one toggle for the new behavior. Or, preferably, there would be no need for an option at all if we can only get over our OCD about preserving arbitrary semantic grouping in our key-bind allocations; and embrace a superior control scheme that's not designed around highlighting an old gimmick feature whose trendiness expired with the Half-Life 2 era of FPS. But that's a pipe dream. Maybe instead we can just all agree that the general>gameplay options are getting a bit crowded. Perhaps we could split some of them off into an "appearance" or "accessibility" tag. As more people make their own mods and we modernize our accessibility options it is going to become a problem regardless. Best to get ahead of it. I agree, and that is one of TDM's strengths. It borrows and combines many of the best features from the three beloved Thief games, but it also gives FM creators tools to expand their creative vision in new directions. To some Thief purists that will never be an enticing proposition. But I don't see this feature as throwing a bone to those Thief players specifically, but just player in general who are bouncing off our game because it deviates from some genre conventions for no obvious reason, which makes them think this is an unpolished product. It is true that Thief was what set these conventions, and (shockingly/s) it is mostly Thief players who are interested enough in TDM to give it a try... but our responsibility to address these problems (if we can) is the same as if AMD or Linux players were having technical problems with TDM. They are people who we want to be part of our community because we never know if one of them might make the next FM like Iris, or do something crazy-innovative with TDM that we can't even imagine!

TBH, I'm all for keeping stuff easy. This brings more complexion to an already complex system, which takes into account leaning, movement speed, crouched and standing position and stuff. I also think that most of the people here underestimate how hard this game is for beginners. It's even hard for me, and I played this game and similar games for almost 20 years now. TDM is a LOT harder than the Thief games, and, those were considered quite hard back in the days as well. I don't think the barrier of entry should be set even higher. I also frankly see no benefit in terms of gameplay or atmosphere. And, if I may also say this: The original Thiefs didn't have it. May sound lame, but, I think this game tries to capture the feel and gameplay of the originals. Including certain gameplay mechanics, which IMO shouldn't be touched.

I realized a fun change we could consider for the lightgem, which should also be fairly easy to implement if agreed upon. We know how aside from the amount of light shining on the player, some FM's increase the lightgem based on movement and crouching, you become more visible while walking and especially when running. I'd like to ask if anyone thinks we should additionally support a slight increase to the lightgem based on mouse movement. Explaining how the idea came to mind is the best way to illustrate why I feel it would make the experience more fun. The player often hides in a dark corner waiting for a hostile AI to pass right by as they patrol: In any real scenario you'd be holding your breath as to not make any sound or the slightest movement, even breathing would stand out slightly and could get you spotted. Thus from a perspective of realism, it feels out of place that I can zoom the mouse all over without any consequence... merely turning your head would draw a bit of attention, let alone looking behind which implies the player turning their whole body around. Meanwhile from a gameplay perspective, it could be a welcome challenge having to not move the mouse when a guard is right next to you, keeping your mouse steady similar to how you'd hold your breath as you wait till the danger passes to look away... this would feel more exciting and add a new form of tension, especially as many players complained the AI feels too easy even on the highest difficulty settings. Obviously the increase should be minuscule, possibly just 1 lightgem point: We don't want players feeling they can't look around while hiding, just not doing it too much when an enemy is right in your face. The best way seems like making it based on the movement speed: Moving the mouse very slowly could have no penalty, whereas jerking it suddenly could increase the lightgem by a few points so even in total darkness the AI sees something and may even catch you if you keep looking around rapidly while next to them. Another debate is whether this should be a spawnarg new missions have to configure, similar to some existing visibility properties and lightgem offsets. Personally I'm in favor of defaulting it to a low value, just 1 lightgem point increase if it's fixed or something like 3 if it's speed based. Alternatively we could tie it to the difficulty setting... if it's controversial maybe just implement it as a hidden cvar we can try out? Very curious what you think so let me know your thoughts, I'd definitely like to at least see the concept tested!

Not to be a nag, but I was thinking about the columns problem. If you go to the view source tab in the wiki article: https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Fan_Missions_for_The_Dark_Mod&action=edit The raw table data is accessible directly: |- !align=left|{{TDM-FM|written|Written in Stone}} |Bikerdude, Amadeus, Dragofer |{{Forumlink|https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21265-written-in-stone-beta-210-only-20220128/}} |2022-01-28 |338 |Yes |Yes |CCC 22, Elixir |City Missions |Undead, Horror Themes |- Each pipe character represents one of the columns.

Terrific! The beta test thread is up: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22238-beta-testing-the-spider-and-the-finch/

Welcome to the Dark Mod forums MarsManon! Thank you very much for the kind words about SLL, it's always nice to hear We all worked real hard on bringing Grayman's map to life and I'm glad you enjoyed it

I was so enchanted by this FM, I had to sign up to the forums the same day I finished it to come thank the authors Genuinely, truly incredible work! I was so overwhelmed in places that I resorted to just shouting joy at my monitor two, three, maybe four entirely separate times while playing. Exploring, puzzling, finding something new, trying to use it, and finding it does a whole new, separate, wonderful thing! There aren't enough words inside me to describe the feeling. It was breathtaking. I don't have any specific feedback that hasn't come through this thread before Thanks so much for making this, for all the inspiration and ingenuity and effort it took. If I never play another level this good, in any other game, in my life, I'd be fine with that.