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I'm no graphics nerd, but I can barely tell the difference between the two. What I can tell from messing around a bit: soft shadows of low quality look like garbage with both maps and stencils (EDIT: wrong, I didn't realize I was looking at shadow maps for a volumetric light shadow. Stencil definitely looks better). increasing soft shadow quality decreases performance in both implementations. I think the CPU/GPU of the end user would influence which is gives better performance both maps and stencils can produce a pixelated shadow if you look close enough. (EDIT: wrong. Again, was looking at a volumetric light shadow). I tend to use maps, because for whatever reason I seem to get a few more FPS out of them. As a mapper, I am certainly NOT interested in endlessly tweaking a scene to make the shadows look perfect. I just don't care enough. If they look shockingly bad I will put some effort into it though (which will probably mean just disabling them for the offending entity). It's rare that I feel this is necessary though. So I guess I don't really get the argument that stencils are amazing and maps are crap. I just don't see it or am too dense to notice. (EDIT: indeed I was being dense. I was comparing shadow maps with shadow maps because I was looking at a volumetric light shadow). Also, in my last couple of missions I had graphical bugs that only showed up with stencil shadows enabled. It would be nice to not have to deal with that all the time.

I don't think any declaration names can start with numbers; I doubt this is something specific to skins. This is similar to the rule in most programming languages where you can have a variable called "a1" but not "1a". However you can organise skins into virtual folders using forward slashes, and individual folder elements can start with numbers. The example in the D3 documentation is "skins/models/weapons/3rox".

And those pics that Daft Mugi posted do show the problem with TDM maps, but I also have to say, that is a problem with TDM shadow maps, not with maps in general, I never seen such ugly issues in Stalker for example or Call of Juarez and many other games. Perhaps those shadow maps issues arise from people not thinking of shadow maps at all, when creating their lights, shadow maps do require a little more tweaking to look good, specially at grazing angles, because they are literally textures, so perhaps moving the lights a little solves those problems or even increasing the shadow map res. Just think about this, if shadow maps where that ugly, the gaming industry would never deprecate stencil shadows and we would still be seeing a ton of games using them, but is totally the contrary, games with stencil shadows, are the minority, even idSoftware removed them, I think since Rage (i'm not totally sure about Rage...) and up (besides obviously Doom 3 BFG). For example: Wolfenstein II Dishonored 2 Evil within 2 (this particular shot is impossible with stencil shadows, because of the blood that is a particle effect with alpha) etc. For obvious reasons TDM fans have a good opinion of stencil shadows and I comprehend that, they do look very good, TDM and Wolfenstein 2009 are the games with the best soft stencil shadows that I haver seen, but maps can also look good, if given the chance and used to their full potencial. another game with good stencil soft shadows Thou tree shadows on this game seem to use something else or literally stencil shadows because sometimes they look like a blob on the floor instead of seeing the individual leaf.

I would like to recommend adding "Warning: Skin names cannot start with numbers, as it will cause models to appear black in-game."

Something I was thinking of: Even if some assets are non-commercial, are all assets at least accounted for to make sure they're credited accordingly and can be distributed? I ask following an issue in another great project I work with called Red Eclipse: They don't have NC assets but did have a few texture packages they had to remove because they later found out their clauses were incompatible with the project. If this hasn't happened in well over a decade it's very unlikely anyone would complain today and request removal for any reason, but if any resource had its license misunderstood that could destroy existing FM's unless perfect replacements were found. Obviously I presume the team never included any asset randomly found on the internet without verifying their explicit requirements in detail, but it doesn't hurt to check. I think the best that can be done otherwise would be to have a list of which assets are libre or have the NC clause: That way a map can choose to use those models and textures that are free if the author wants their FM to be fully libre, albeit this would handicap an author in what packages they can use. If core assets like character models or textures are also NC, the idea is likely pointless as you can't make a FM without those, at best you can skip a few texture packages... not sure about other things like core scripts or defs, since they're technically code I presume those are GPL?

So these alternative arrow models are courtesy of Kingsal. He made them for his Volta campaign and has allowed myself and other mappers to use them if they want. You can find them in my FMs as well as Goldwell's.

I wonder about the alternative models for the arrows. Have they been used in other missions too already? I really like them, maybe I could extract them to my directory to use them in general for the game?

The Numbers don't lie. It has been 15 years since the release of TDM 1.0 in 2009. I think we should consider a contest to celebrate this. Further, the contest goal should be with the intention of motivating the completion of a campaign that can be deemed official. Here are some possible ways forward: Proposal 1: Middle mission(s) Authors are asked to create a mission that expands the story between "A New Job" and "Tears of St Lucia". This can involve escaping the heavily guarded city perimeter, stowing away on a ship or caravan, attempting to recruit a partner for St Lucia and failing, getting caught by Builders before arriving and having to escape their compound, getting lost in haunted woods on the way there, etc. Any interesting way that the connection between the two official missions can be expanded. Points are awarded for making explicit references to Corbin, St Lucia, and any story elements in the two official missions. If the resultant mission is of high enough quality, it can possibly be made into an official mission. If we get a number of excellent submissions and they do not cause logical inconsistencies, we might even be able to add two or more to the official list. Proposal 2: Intellectual Property distinct approximation of TDS missions Over the years, many have asked that we recreate Thief 1 \ 2 in this engine. Obviously we cannot do this due to copyright law but we could create similar missions and stories that approximate the Thief 1 or 2 designs. That said, I think that most of our audience has played these missions to death so it may be underwhelming to see them arrive in approximate form anyway. What might be better would be to develop a similar story to TDS and make missions that resemble what T1 \ T2 players were dreaming would arrive when TDS was announced and the first screen-shots were shown in gaming magazines. So take any TDS mission you like, examine the story arc and wildly re-interpret something similar but on a much grander scale. Since it's possible that two or more contestants will choose the same mission to re-interpret, we have a slot system were authors need to claim their preferred mission and if it is taken then they must select another one or lose some story points. The slots represent a sketch of what the mission author might try to do rather than a blueprint. If authors can come up with a mission that has almost no resemblance to any TDS mission but would make for a compelling story development in a similar story arc then that can be claimed as an alternative to a slot. Proposal 3: Same as proposal 2 but we stick with Thief 1 rather than TDS. Wildly re-interpret T1 based on what you may have dreamed of when reading the gaming magazines or playing the demo. Slots system to prevent duplicate submissions. Maybe with either proposals 3 and 4, we still require the use of Corbin as the protagonist and a connective enough story that they could also be adapted as middle missions for the official campaign if the team agrees on it. Proposal 4: Another "Connections" Contest. We just allow authors to connect any two missions with each other or expand the story of an existing series or single mission. So those are my thoughts. I'll leave it to players and mission authors to suggest other proposals and if we have some sort of consensus about the most popular proposals then we will make a poll. Realistically between now and October we may not be able to hold a contest with any strict guidelines ( and tricky issues with maintaining a distance to Thief IP ) so proposal 4 may still be the easiest option.

http://k.min.us/jCfGA.jpg "At night, they say, the Builders' hand comes loose from his mighty hammer and creatures wander out from their hiding places while he slumbers. But tis this night, above all others that unholy vapours cloak the land with gloomy curtains and night creatures dance and sing in the twilight. I can't say I'm looking forward to my endeavors this night.... I've been given a job by a Priest to retrieve two holy artifacts from an abandoned cloister in Eldin woods north of the city, simple job I thought, but the priest failed to mention the placed was haunted." Build Time: - version 1.0 was about 5 weeks, but we are now upto version 3.11. Thanks: Respect to the Dark Mod team for putting up with all my questions and knocking up the various updates in short order!. Special thanks to Flanders and Springheel for their models and my testers for helping me squash all the bugs etc. Testers: Flanders, Jaxa, nbohr1more, Aluminumhaste, Baal,l Oldjim, Cookie, Obsttorte, lux, Mat99, AluminumHaste, thebigh Readables: Darkangel/Flanders/b1k3rdude with special thanks to Flanders for his original story.. Resource: Flanders/Springheel - art direction and models. Misc: This is a homage to the original Thief2 mission from 2001 (The Cathedral of the Damned) Download: - The latest version is now available via the in-game downloader. Info: This version has been heavily updated from the original, this came about as a result of need to be compatible with TDM 2.10+ Repeat after me, "Read and explore, Read and explore" The mission is fully l10n ready. (thanks Tels) The mission now has EFX Reverb The mission now has Volumetric Light effects The mission now uses LOD settings for different detail levels There is now a script event related to the "Curse" A few new surprises... Known issues: This mission will have less than optimal fps at a few points on the map, but most of my testers with lowish end rigs (P4/HD4650) are getting 30fps+ at the worst spots) For very low end PCs I recommend the following settings: V-sync is off, AA is off, Aniso is 4x or lower, advanced settings are simple/default & Post processing of disabled and as a last resort the command line arg ' r_skipFogLights 1 ' (turns off the fog)

Your skins don't have a model specified in the skin code. How do you think it works that way? Edit: The reason this happens (I think) is that the skin name cannot start with a number. skin one_brick_teal_blue { model models/title_models/walls/wooden_frame/straight_frame/straight_frame_wall_128_x_128.ase textures/darkmod/plaster/plaster_01 textures/darkmod/stone/brick/blocks_tealblue_dark }

Alright, new problem with making these skins (or should I make a new thread about this?) Why are my skinned models coming up black? Here is my updated code for a simple skin. And here is the model in the skin editor, changed to its creamy, plaster version. Yet for some reason, all of my skins are pure black. The wiki says this is caused by the editor not finding the skin definition, and that there are spelling errors somewhere. I am not sure what this means, though, since all of my directory paths are spelled right (otherwise, how would the skin editor display them perfectly fine?) Does the name of the file have to match the declared skin name?

Ooohhhhhh, it's twitching in the build intenstine, as we say in Sweden (or do we? :D) I'm quite eager to create something. But they're releasing new skaven models for Age of Sigmar 4 this summer... And I have a 2 year old... And work... And a girlfriend... And too little time... I will try to create something at least. If I run out of time, I'll run out of time; then I at least have built something that can be released after the contest... Count me in, with the caveat that I may pull out before deadline...!

What do you mean by moving them around? You move them from the models folder into another folder? Models must be placed in the models folder. Otherwise, DM/DR cannot find them anymore causing the problems you mentioned in your post.

I have been building my map using some models I've created. I noticed that moving the models around in the folders caused the models in-game to break. Are there any precautions I must take for when I want to upload the map for beta-testing/finalizing the upload?

I did play Thief and FMs, but I don't play it any more, except for major things like Black Parade. The clunky movement and antiquated Dromed editor is what discouraged me from interacting with it over the years. I regularly play and sometimes make content for TDM, because it has much better movement model than Thief. I know that most missions don't use it well, but if you construct your geometry (gaps, ledges, distances) using power of two measurements, movement and mantling feels fast and snappy. There's no need for regression in that regard, in my opinion, there's a need for assets and missions made with the movement model in mind, to showcase its strengths properly. Even if TDM originally intended to "simulate the stealth gameplay of Thief, many things will be familiar to veteran Thief players" the actual mod history was a bit different. The team came up with a mission platform that has its own identity when it comes to mechanics. The way assets were made might have been a huge mistake, but that didn't prevent the platform from growing. Since you like anecdotal evidence, noone other Skacky once said that TDM movement model was super clunky, after playing The Painter's Wife. It was really hard to convince him that if a mapper places geometry this poorly, and isn't aware what spatial measurements play to the strengths of a movement model, no movement model will save his mission. And there is no fixing of this problem on the engine side, although it's not the first time when TDM team tries to address the asset problem with engine changes, which I suspect will ultimately lead to even more problems down the line. In game development, things like core mechanics and player tools are locked-down first, in one of the pre-production phases, because all the levels will be constructed around them. Making changes in core mechanics in a project this mature is very risky, I assume you don't plan on going through all playable spaces in all released TDM FMs to check for errors. Instead of making incremental changes in fundamental mechanics, I'd encourage you to create a fork, or some kind of major version bump candidate, like 3.0, where all things could be revamped: movement, player tools, UI, new frob mechanics, perhaps with UI contextual icons, new training map to incorporate all that, etc. Once all new elements fall into place and create something new, with a map or maps to back it up as relevant changes, it will be easier to convince existing player/author base that it was worth it. I assume the existing fanbase is already fragmented, as a result of all those heated discussions around the topic. But with multiple versions available for download, the transition to hypothetical "TDM 3.0" should be easier. It could be similar to UE2 and UE3, and you could also use this as an occasion to draw the line for backwards compatibility. I know there are old systems and variables kept in place just in order not to break existing missions. This way you could e.g. redo the LOD system, implement lights using math functions instead of textures, etc.

There are very few things that would drive a man of the streets like myself to the high seas. Before I even thought there were none at all. Yet when one of the nobles whom I had paid a visit to decided to make it his personal objective to end me, promising a mound of gold to the first cutthroat who brings him my head, it became clear no one could be trusted anymore. It was time for change. The most recent version (v2, June 2023) is available from the ingame downloader. Special thanks to: *Betatesters Oldjim, Bikerdude, Airship Ballet, Goldwell, Nbohr1more, JackFarmer, joebarnin, The Black Arrow, datiswous and Acolytesix - for their truly diligent efforts in getting this mission polished in all aspects *The DarkRadiant wiki, which is excellent and covers as good as everything *Bikerdude - for allowing me to repurpose his architecture models to improve the ending of the mission *Grayman - for allowing me to repurpose a mission of his for my briefing *Sotha - for his excellent briefing Format Update v2.0 (18/June/2023) Update v1.5 (02/March/2015)

A couple of things you can try (yes .ase files should work): I'm no expert with models, but do you have a field in the .ase file that looks something like this: *MATERIAL_NAME "textures\darkmod\plaster\plaster01" ? If the material name there isn't exactly as you specify in the skin it won't get replaced Check the console log in DarkRadiant to see if you have any errors when loading the skin. It's there in the 'console' tab.

It's okay! I'm down with any option hence why I asked. But I agree: Most players would likely not approve of such a change being done retroactively and affecting all old FM's, so it would likely be best as a derivative entity for mappers to use in the future based on new or existing lamps that can provide one. In any case it would likely require engine changes, not something you can currently do with a script: Lights already use their own hardcoded script classname which can't be overridden. Even if it weren't for that I don't think there's a way to intercept broadhead arrow collisions and check what kind of surface they hit, even with the Stim / Response system. There should probably be two new spawnargs: A breakable boolean enabling the feature on an entity, and a skin_broken to specify the skin used when a light was smashed.

This kind of mechanic would break a ton of existing FMs. Some (I dare say even most) mappers often choose electric lamps so that they can't be extinguished or turned off, forcing the player to time their movements through the light. There are of course switchable electric lights, but that is up to the author on how they want to implement those. It would definitely be fun to see an FM implement this Splinter Cell-style mechanic, where the mapper has designed their map to function in such a way, but to add this as a core feature would break the gameplay of countless maps

When talking about a possible libre version of TDM (https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22346-libre-version-of-tdm/) it seems we believe all media/gamedata included in TDM is licensed CC-BY-NC-SA. I am not familiar with how the process of adding new media/gamedata works today; I have seen files uploaded to the bugtracker which developers then commit to SVN, but I don't know if there are other ways. It may be a good idea to implement a process that when new components (media/gamedata included in TDM) are added, the contributor is asked to be explicit about the license (a choice which may defaults to their previous preference, for usability). It won't fix the past, but it may help in the future. This will make it easy for contributors to add future data under a more permissive license if they choose. Libre media can be added and its license can be tracked, rather than assumed to be CC-BY-NC-SA. I suggest looking at how Wikimedia Commons has implemented this: the contributor state the source and license at the time the data is uploaded. This can be done either by providing urls or by saying "It's my work and I choose this licsense". The first step could be to add a way to keep track of each filepath in SVN, author, license, sources. Start by setting the value for each file's license to "(default/legacy CC-BY-NC-SA)". Possible implementations for a user interface for new additions are: * Use our own wiki, which runs Mediawiki (same as Wikimedia Commons). I see several benefits of this, but we also need a way to accept uploads of batches, not just single files. * Look at how other open source projects have solved this. There may be more appropriate solutions available. ... but I'll leave the implementation open. Suggestions are very welcome! If the author of each file already in SVN can be tracked, then it may be possible that the author is willing to give a blanket permission for all their past files in one statement, and all their files in SVN can be updated in one commit. A productive contributor willing to release some of their work under a more permissive license could make a big change. If Dark Radiant would support letting mappers search media/gamedata by license (does it already?), it would make it easier for mappers to create a completely libre mission, which would help facilitate a TDM-libre release. If I understand things correctly. This post does not address all details and it may contain misunderstandings or assumptions, but it's a start. Also relevant: * Is there a compiled and maintained list of recommended or deprecated resources for mappers to use? * https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/20311-external-art-assets-licensing/

I always loved the "connections" theme and I think it is very fitting to celebrate TDM. It's a shame we can't have 4 polls per thread because then my proposal would be to have free-for-all with a "connections"-rating added that evaluates how well the mission integrates into or expands upon the existing lore.

The real St. Alban was a pagan who became a celebrated religious personality, this All Saints Day 2010 The Dark Mod places its own spin on this mythical figure. Screenshots: Intro: "'Business' has been slow lately, even more so after most of my gear got snatched during a Watch raid... I've since been forced to hit the streets and pick pockets for a living. But my luck was about to change, last night I was approached by a red hooded figure with a proposition... As we sat down in a dark corner of a nearby inn, he told to me that the Builders of St. Alban's Cathedral in the Old Quarter had recently unearthed a discovery that might lead to the final resting place of some saint." " But before I do anything, I need to get my tools and stash from the evidence room at the local watch station." "with the hawks, doves will congregate they will drop honey from the cliffs wine will surge over the earth the sheep will wander harmlessly with the wolf then the wicked will rise, but to retribution" - 'scripture of St Alban' There is a new version out now, see the following thread St Albans Cathedral version 1.6 Build Time: about 2-3 months. Thanks:- Huge respect to the Dark Mod team for such a great mod and for all the hard work they put into it and continue to put into it. Special thanks to Fidcal, Serpentine and others for their help on the forums and to Testing:Ugoliant, Baddcog, Grayman, Lost soul, Bjorn and Baal (for doing all the Vp work in the town. Readables: Ungoliant and Mortemdesino for all awesome work on the readables. Resource: Fids, Grayman, Ungoliant - guis, models & images. Misc: Loren Schmidt - the author of the map I based the cathedral on. Info: # Like Thief2, some things are climable, pipes, wall vines etc.. You can also drop some of the keys, some door that are frobbabe mean there is another way inside - explore u taffer! # Due to TDM being a lot more of a resource hog than T2 I have been forced to limit the number of Ai in the mission, but they have better placement than my last mission. # On all difficulty levels the player starts with vertualy no tools/weapons, there are weapons to be found - read, read, read! # For the love of all that is holy, read the briefing otherwise you will problems completing the mission. Known issues:- # This mission will have less than optimal fps at a few points on the map, mid range DX9 card(X1900/GF7800) or higher required. # On low end PCs I recommend, V-sync is off, AA is off, Aniso is 4x or lower and that any and all background apps are closed.

Ah, pity I wasn't reading the forums back in February. I'm fond of that game, along with Bugbear's other early title, Rally Trophy. I was never too good at FlatOut, but it was always a hoot to play.

Author Note: Shadows of Northdale is a new campaign that takes place in a city called Northdale that is situated up in the mountains of the western empire. Across the campaign the player will traverse through the varying districts of the city with each mission featuring it's own unique location as well as different locations in the city hub to access. ACT I is the first mission which is designed to introduce the player to the city hub area and the new mechanics available to them. During the first night in the city hub section there are a couple of places to explore however this will expand and open up further as you progress through the campaign's missions. This mission features some aspects which are different to the usual dark mod FM experience which are: - Food is an item that is picked up and stored in your inventory, pressing the use key with the food item highlighted will cause the player to eat it and gain 5hp - There is an ingame fence where you can purchase gear using any loot you may have found during the mission, you can visit him as many times as you wish but do be mindful of your loot goals - Also inside the fence's shop are contracts, these are readables which detail tasks that a client wishes you to complete for an agreed sum of gold. Upon completing them you will be rewarded with the designated sum immediately - Because you are not a wanted criminal (yet) the citywatch will only attack you if they catch you breaking the law or find you near the scene of a crime - Candles are pinchable in this mission, frobbing them causes Corbin to pinch them to put them out rather than pick them up The mission was designed and tested on 2.05, if you are playing on any other version there may be bugs present. If you enjoyed the mission please feel free to leave a review, I enjoy reading them and it gives me inspiration for my next projects. Tell me what you felt worked and what you felt could be improved for next time. Have fun taffers! - Goldwell. 2.06 UPDATE INFO: If you are experiencing any path finding issues (AI walking around in circles or getting stuck) on 2.06 then please enter the following console command to resolve these issues cm_backFaceCull 0. Thanks goes to Nbohr1more for solving that! Testers Crowind Epifire Kingsal Random_Taffer Skacky SquadaFroinx Voice Actors AndrosTheOxen Goldwell SlyFoxx Custom assets Andreas Rocha Bentraxx Bob Necro Dragofer Epifire Freesound Kingsal MalachiAD Tannar And a very special thank you to the following people without whom the mission would not exist: Epifire for creating some amazing detailed custom models that help bring a unique layer that wouldn't be possible without it. Seriously go check out his modeling page! Dude is very talented https://sketchfab.com/Epifire Grayman for helping to debug a lot of critical bugs in the mission, without him there wouldnt be a mission Kingsal and Skacky for helping out with excellent tips on level design, flow and lighting Moonbo for lending his writing talents to help optimize the briefing video script Obsttorte for making the majority of the scripts featured in this mission, and for dealing with my constant nagging about issues and bugs, you are awesome! SlyFoxx for lending his vocal talents and making the fence character come to life and sound great SquadaFroinx for providing thorough beta reports (that are equally hilarious as they are useful) And finally a huge thank you to Tannar for drawing the fantastic looking ingame map Available via in-game downloader MIRROR File Size: 295 mb