NHAT Update!

[Goldchocobo]

Hi everyone,

Well, I'm unofficially back. I've been wrestling with myself to perhaps finish off the NHAT saga, or in the very least update it grandly. By update, I mean fix a lot of the problems that have cropped up since it's release, both preexisting as well as newly introduced since it was released (its a 1.01 release, if memory serves).

I also would like to add a few more features, rooms, loot, secrets, static meshes to things I wanted static meshed, and most importantly, re-market. I don't think NHAT was marketed well whatsoever on its first release. Shame, since I unhealthily dedicated 9 months of my life to it.

 

Anyway, does anyone have any suggestions, or knowledge as to what needs to be updated in NHAT? I've been out of the TDM scene for awhile, refresh my memory

[Springheel]

Hey Gold, good to see you back. One thing you might want to look into is the campaign support Greebo is working on. That would link the missions effectively together.

[nbohr1more]

AFAIK, Tels has done a little experimenting with the new SEED system on the Forest map and the fix for the missing Ambient definitions in the terrain were apparently in SVN before 1.04 release (but will await 1.05? for the fix?).

 

If you have any written material available I can coalesce it into a Moddb article or write an article for you if need be.

 

(Though... I thought Mortem Desino could also post there???)

 

[swordbreaker]

welcome back!

 

add a few more features, rooms, loot, secrets....

 

for whom? newcomers? if so, a few people will interest. For regulars? if so, again a few people'll interest. Please keep your energy for an another project(small or preferably BIG) because we want new mission!

[grayman]

My only suggestion is to beef up the monsterclip.

 

For the AI movement improvements, I've been using a section outside the Inn at the start of anoott where the guards got stuck treadmilling against the stuff under the overhang. I've tested with that countless times, and every time I find myself thinking, "If only he'd put monsterclip around that stuff...".

[Goldchocobo]

oOoOo campaign support. I suppose I'll wait for 1.05 then . Hopefully re-marketing NHAT as a 3 mission campaign would draw in new players as well; more meat for the TDM grinder!

[AluminumHaste]

Welcome back, we've missed you I for one would be very excited for any excuse to play your missions, more screenshots for moddb too.

[STiFU]

Yeah, as nbohr said, the blend-material definition for the terrain on forest needs to be altered to support all ambient methods properly, but I don't think any updated material definition has been commited to SVN (unlike nbohr claimed), because NHAT is not located on the SVN server.

 

Campaign support won't be included in 1.05 yet though, because Greebo still needs some time to add some code-support (Unless I missed some of the discussions the last few weeks, which is apparently very likely, since I couldn't offer a lot of time for TDM.).

[New Horizon]

Yeah, as nbohr said, the blend-material definition for the terrain on forest needs to be altered to support all ambient methods properly, but I don't think any updated material definition has been commited to SVN (unlike nbohr claimed), because NHAT is not located on the SVN server.

 

Campaign support won't be included in 1.05 yet though, because Greebo still needs some time to add some code-support (Unless I missed some of the discussions the last few weeks, which is apparently very likely, since I couldn't offer a lot of time for TDM.).

 

It could be on SVN, but the material files and textures may be packaged within the mission. If they're in the mission pk4, they will override the main mod.

[nbohr1more]

Yep.

 

The forest.mtr is inside the PK4 so it'll override the mod base.

 

I posted the fix here for folks that don't want to wait:

 

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/10993-fan-mission-no-honor-among-thieves-20100429/page__view__findpost__p__250945

 

 

I also experimented with "noDynamicInteractions = 1" on the terrain but it didn't help me performance-wise. (And wasn't worth loosing the lantern light movement on the terrain.).

 

I am not sure how the 7 terrain models are split but I was thinking that it might be beneficial to split them further (into 3rds) so that the far portions (away from the AI lanterns) can be set to "noDynamicInteractions" along with the player-clipped mountains and perhaps some of the far trees and particle-leaves (if that property can be set for particles...?).

 

I am just trying to look for ways to pare-down the number of tracked interactions as I get "Interaction Overflow" errors which may be causing my CPU to hit the wall. But the above changes may only help on the GPU side anyway...

 

Whatever you add to the maps will be welcomed.

[New Horizon]

The map should be re-released with anything that is now on SVN removed from the pk4.

[STiFU]

The material in question is not one of the base tdm materials, but a mission specific blend material to perform vertex blending on the terrain, which is only contained in the mission archive. As far as the terrain splitting is concerned, I split the parts up approximately along the portal intersections, so that the terrain is still visible when a portal closes.

[nbohr1more]

Approximate?

 

Well... if you or anyone else are down for cutting-up the terrain sections further then perhaps more effective visportal culling would happen?

 

...or you could just use hide_distance on the distant terrain segments..?

 

That might be a helluva more effective than tinkering with noDynamicInteractions.

 

(I need to learn Blender to test these things... )

[STiFU]

hide_distance is in fact being used, at least it had been used right on the release, but maybe the new object detail settings still mess with that, I didn't play it for quite some time.

 

Approximate?

I split the mesh up approximately along the portal intersections in such a fashion as to avoid the creation of unnecessary polys, if I remember correctly.

[nbohr1more]

I knew the Trees had hide_distance applied I didn't recall it being applied to terrain...

 

(Nope... Not in the version I downloaded recently at least...)

 

// entity 3719
{
"classname" "func_static"
"name" "func_static_2647"
"model" "models/darkmod/map_specific/forest/terrain01.ASE"
"origin" "-2936 -261 0"
}
// entity 3720
{
"classname" "func_static"
"name" "func_static_2644"
"model" "models/darkmod/map_specific/forest/terrain02.ASE"
"origin" "-3336 -1761 0"
}
// entity 3721
{
"classname" "func_static"
"name" "func_static_2331"
"model" "models/darkmod/map_specific/forest/terrain03.ASE"
"origin" "-3336 -3761 0"
}
// entity 3722
{
"classname" "func_static"
"name" "func_static_2323"
"model" "models/darkmod/map_specific/forest/terrain04.ASE"
"origin" "-3886 -4711 0"
}
// entity 3723
{
"classname" "func_static"
"name" "func_static_2322"
"model" "models/darkmod/map_specific/forest/terrain05.ASE"
"origin" "-3986 -5961 0"
}
// entity 3724
{
"classname" "func_static"
"name" "func_static_2321"
"model" "models/darkmod/map_specific/forest/terrain06.ASE"
"origin" "-5036 -6861 0"
}
// entity 3725
{
"classname" "func_static"
"name" "func_static_2320"
"model" "models/darkmod/map_specific/forest/terrain07.ASE"
"origin" "-5836 -7361 0"
}

 

 

I suppose these could be updated as thus:

 

// entity 3725
{
"classname" "func_static"
"name" "func_static_2320"
"dist_check_period" ".5"
"hide_distance" "2800"
"model" "models/darkmod/map_specific/forest/terrain07.ASE"
"origin" "-5836 -7361 0"
"noshadows" "1"

}

 

?

[STiFU]

You'll have to talk to Mortem Desino for the specifics. I don't know how exactly he did it, but the distant parts of the terrain definitely used to disappear.

 

Yup, I just checked, they still disappear, regardless of the object detail setting, whereas trees and stuff are affected by it.

[nbohr1more]

If it isn't hide_distance than it must be the hard-closing func_portal's he referred to...

 

I suppose for the sake of redundancy I could test with those parameters applied anyway (or variation thereof ).

 

I just need to find a way to identify the huge swath of tree and leaves that aren't affected by those AI lanterns.

 

Though all that tedium will probably net me 1FPS anyway with my luck...

[Mortem Desino]

Oh my goodness gravy! You mean I need to stop taking a nap from TDM and fire up DR again? Blergh.

 

It appears all of the release files are still in HTTPS:// THIS IS THE SVN SERVER /contributor/betamapper/goldchocobo/

 

Now, as I remember (and as Tortoise SVN starts chugging away) forest terrain distance disappearance worked simply because of the visportals. It might be done by distance check, but I thought that it was redundant to do so while distance check-ed func_portals worked so well. Because STiFU approximated and didn't cut exactly along portal lines, the terrain section in front of a closed portal still remains visible. Any terrain beyond that gets culled away. If I remember the workings right, if the bounding box of a func_static even touches a visportal, it won't get culled.

 

 

 

EDIT: Is is strange that this thread made me think of this golden oldie?

BEWARE, I LIVE. RUN, COWARD! I HUNGER! RUN, RUN, RUN!

[Goldchocobo]

Oh my goodness gravy! You mean I need to stop taking a nap from TDM and fire up DR again? Blergh.

 

It appears all of the release files are still in HTTPS:// THIS IS THE SVN SERVER /contributor/betamapper/goldchocobo/

 

Now, as I remember (and as Tortoise SVN starts chugging away) forest terrain distance disappearance worked simply because of the visportals. It might be done by distance check, but I thought that it was redundant to do so while distance check-ed func_portals worked so well. Because STiFU approximated and didn't cut exactly along portal lines, the terrain section in front of a closed portal still remains visible. Any terrain beyond that gets culled away. If I remember the workings right, if the bounding box of a func_static even touches a visportal, it won't get culled.

 

 

 

EDIT: Is is strange that this thread made me think of this golden oldie?

BEWARE, I LIVE. RUN, COWARD! I HUNGER! RUN, RUN, RUN!

Hahaha, I lol'd through this entire post. Good to see my old buddy MD around, NHAT wouldn't have been possible without him.

And MD is right. Also, all foliage and whatnot is also culled distance based, since large visportals don't exactly work predictably. Netted me 15 fps that one, for all you outdoor mappers!

[nbohr1more]

Yes Mortem needs to post more often, not only to keep folks informed but also to keep the entertainment quotient up

Edited March 28, 2011 by nbohr1more

[Mortem Desino]

Are you kidding? The only reason I'll resurrect myself is so I can work just hard enough to grace www.darkmod.com's "Team Members" page.

 

Then I can fool those nasty gremlins at E3 Expo that I'm part of the "Interactive Entertainment Business".

 

ThenThenThen I can sneaks my way inside E3 for cocktails, dancing, and awesome rave parties!! Or whatever real game designers do.

[greebo]

As soon as I'll have the basics done, I'd appreciate if we can use this 3 mission pack as testbed for the campaign code. I can help you getting it set up, of course. I assume most of the work will go into the GUI.

[Goldchocobo]

Are you kidding? The only reason I'll resurrect myself is so I can work just hard enough to grace www.darkmod.com's "Team Members" page.

 

Then I can fool those nasty gremlins at E3 Expo that I'm part of the "Interactive Entertainment Business".

 

ThenThenThen I can sneaks my way inside E3 for cocktails, dancing, and awesome rave parties!! Or whatever real game designers do.

 

Well MD, I go to pretty much every gaming industry convention in North America, and that a pretty close estimation to what exactly happens. I've snuck myself into more parties then I can remember!!

 

edit: argh, that sounded like a pretentious post, sorry... but I do go to for work reasons

[pusianka]

I'm not sure if anyone said that since you use a lot of DR phrases which I cannot understand but the lightning in forest in last mission of NHAT campaign was very unnatural. Fixing this would be cool. Beside that increasing FPS in the forest would also be nice(same with portside)

[Mortem Desino]

Yeah, forest lighting was a bit of an experiment with "blend modulate" if I remember right. I could always dismiss it as a design feature because "It's a haunted forest".