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Fan Mission: Sneak & Destroy, by SeriousToni, Beginner's Contest 2012 - Update 11/2022


SeriousToni
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Sneak & Destroy - Do you like it? :)  

71 members have voted

  1. 1. Gameplay: Enjoyment. Fun duration. Smooth flow, ect. Versus Bugs. Frustration, Boredom, framelag

  2. 2. Appearance: Vertical use, Visual pleasure, lighting, visual style, deduct bad texturing etc.

  3. 3. Story & Text: Story. Text. Briefing. Graphic storytelling



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Judging from the 1st screenshots, I feared a blocky, relatively empty and boring mission.

Well, I was wrong!

 

There are certainly lots of right angles and a lack of ... organic structures and grime, sometimes it did look a little empty and not-lived in - but this was swiftly forgotten when I was actually playing.

 

You certainly know how to fit the elements of an enjoyable mission together!

For a beginner mission it seems very remarkable to me that your map, while overall to me "only" being good, lacks not much, at least I didn't notice anything major.

 

 

Also, the extra effort going in a nice briefing/debriefing made the mission feel much more meaningful (it's always so much nicer to be gently carried into/out of the thief feeling than to be just "thrown" in a mission like in cold water).

 

In my opinion, your basic skill level is already quite good - I hope for much in your future, more refined, missions!

 

Thank you for an hour of good thieving fun.

"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly while bad people will find a way around the laws." - Plato

"When outmatched... cheat."— Batman

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Wow! This was some good stuff for a first mission. Congrats! Give yerself a pat on the back and call yourself a TDM mapper veteran.

 

I can't remember the last time I played as solid mission as this. It was probably The Score to Settle.

 

 

 

 

The good:

 

Interesting plot, briefing/epilogue voice acting!, interesting room layouts, 'ending the beer party', perfect light placement and radius, solid gameplay, well used relighting behavior, and many more... I almost pissed my pants a few times when nearly got caught but still managed to get away.

 

The bad:

 

Occasionally some areas looked a bit bare.

 

Do not be seen -objective. That's a bit harsh for medium difficulty, but I decided to give that difficulty a go anyway. A bad decision on my part. Couple that with no lockpicks and strict loot quotas, there will be trouble.

 

No essential gear: no lockpicks. sure a design dispute, but not having the lockpicks means that you really don't give the player full possibility to go and make decisions how to proceed. Rather than forbidding the lockpicks, give lockpicks and put guards on the critical doors. Or some other security measures. The problem not having lockpicks was the headquarters. Nearly everyone in the tavern had a key on them. After picking up a few house keys and cellar keys, I simply assumed the keys I see on people are duplicates of those. Nope, there was the headquarters key which I stupidly missed, which then resulted in the last problem.

If you hate lockpicks, make them purchaseable for a steep price: I'd given anything to have lockpicks on this mission. No spyglass: I'd also loved to have the spyglass, I could have read the notes in the well lit doors from a safe distance, Lantern would have been nice too.

 

Strict loot quotas: since I didn't get into the headquarters I got into the annoying situation that I've completed the main objective, but cannot leave because of the loot requirement. This is bad situation, which often raises frustration. This would have been avoided by giving lockpicks or lowering the loot quota.

 

Lost focus: The mission lost a bit focus due to the second tavern. After completing the main objective and getting my hands bloody and awaiting when the corpse is found and the city watch raids the area... I had still go to investigate the other tavern because of the loot quota. I was ready to leave, it felt logical to leave... But I had to still go to the other tavern. Also, the other one was not as interesting as the one with the assassination target. The other tavern felt a bit out-of-place and this mission could have done perfectly, or even better without it: assuming, you spent the time you used on the other tavern to improve the tavern with the target.

 

High ambient light: the ambient was maybe a bit too bright. You used simple geometry and a bright ambient coupled with that makes things look a bit washed out. I even reduced my gamma setting. You know your ambient is too bright if your lightgem is NOT totally dark when standing in total darkness. Try an ambient of: hue 0, saturation 0 and value 6. I'm sure you will be happy with the result.

 

 

 

 

Anyways: all in all, this mission was one of the most fun missions I've played for a looong time. And it is even impressive since it is your first mission! I salivate to even to contemplate what kind of masterpiece your next mission will be.

 

Thanks! I really think that if you choose to carry on with mapping, TDM will have a bright future in terms of high-quality maps.

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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I finished up your mission last night but am only getting a chance to write now. As many others have said, I can't believe this is your first mission. Incredible! I found your mission flowed well if you just kept exploring (I like that). Almost got caught a few times when lights etc. were re-lit. I liked the textures in both buildings. I found all the loot (like that also :) )

 

 

I really liked your way of getting the assasin back to their room. I wasn't sure what the switch in the basement was for as I hadn't found the journal yet but went with it and eventually figured it out.

 

 

I only had a couple of problems

 

1) I got stuck in the bathroom (on the 2nd floor) where there is 2 pails and a brush in the corner. Not sure what I was stuck on as I could see those things but had to noclip to get off there.

2) I had difficulty hearing what was being said - but that could be just me.

 

Definately nothing major.

 

I look forward to more from you. Congrats.

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Dear Sotha,

 

thank you two for your feedback. :)

 

@ Sotha's spoiler

 

 

The good: I'm glad you liked so much of it, but I'm also happy that you talked much about the things that you didn't like. I don't want to argue (don't know the right word for it) about the things you mentioned, I will put them in my mind for the future - and I don't want to legitimate myself now, I just want to reflect, and may explain why I chose the things to do in that way (hope this was the correct translation):

 

Don't be seen: My intension was that you concentrate on the essential things that this game provides: stealth! :) I used lights, materials, and only a few AIs for the danger of the player, but I also wanted to make the player try to do things like shooting moss arrows and take care, instead of running and BJ through the mission, which has not the size to do so.

 

No essential gear: I'm sorry about this! I didn't realize that the lantern and the spyglass were missing that much ^_^ And for the lockpicks I wanted the player to lead a bit through the map. Explore and find the keys (that weren't hidden in any case and available from the start (there wasnt a find Key A for Room B which contains the Key to room C etc.)) I hope you didn't get the feeling of a key hunt, as I dislike this feeling too :o

 

Lost focus: I'm afraid you didn't like the idea to give the player two taverns to search in. That is what we have talked about above with the keys and the lockpicks. You can give the player the freedom or you can lead him a bit. In this case I thought I give you the freedom to choose in which tavern you start your search. If you chose the right one instantly of course you have one objective done, but yet you didn't find all the loot, so it makes sense to pay a visit to the second tavern even after finding the assassin.

 

High ambient light: Heh this is a hard point. I first had it set to 2. Then one of the betatesters said it was far too dark, so I set it a bit higher then. I guess this is subtle to each player with his own flavour and luckily you can change the gamma settings in the menu if you find them too high ;)

 

 

 

Hello there Thiefette, nice to meat you. I even awaited your post since yesterday. ^_^ Here to your spoilers:

 

 

I put a notice in front of the doors in the basement which explains what the switch does, did you maybe miss it? The journal also explains the same thing but a bit more detailed. I hope this wasn't a big problem :o

 

 

"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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Hello there Thiefette, nice to meat you. I even awaited your post since yesterday. ^_^ Here to your spoilers:

 

 

I put a notice in front of the doors in the basement which explains what the switch does, did you maybe miss it? The journal also explains the same thing but a bit more detailed. I hope this wasn't a big problem :o

 

 

 

No it wasn't a big problem at all.

 

I did see the notes on the doors but this was the first area I went to in the inn so did not put two and two together right away. It was just me having a DOH moment :laugh:

I knew it would mean something somewhere so I just had to do one of my favorite things and explore.

 

Thanks again for a great mission.

 

Edit - Also nice to meet you.

Edited by Thiefette
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Lost focus: I'm afraid you didn't like the idea to give the player two taverns to search in. That is what we have talked about above with the keys and the lockpicks. You can give the player the freedom or you can lead him a bit. In this case I thought I give you the freedom to choose in which tavern you start your search. If you chose the right one instantly of course you have one objective done, but yet you didn't find all the loot, so it makes sense to pay a visit to the second tavern even after finding the assassin.

 

 

 

I just want to elaborate what I meant with the lost focus.

 

 

The main tavern was centered on the map. It was very detailed, I noticed multiple ways in, I could circle around it, I observed guards going in and out the balcony, one door was guarded... It just felt so obvious that this was the main location: it obviously was the centerpiece of the mission. The other tavern was just a window and I assumed that there was only one small room with low value loot behind it, so I left it for dessert after the main course. How could I choose the wrong one as all the unseen arrows pointed towards the first tavern?

 

 

 

I hope my feedback did not hurt your feelings, I don't do it out of spite, but I see your great potential and want to give you some pointers to consider. To reveal things for you to think about so that you can develop your own take on the described facet of mission design. I emphasize that my way is not the 'correct' way, but you need to develop a personal way that appeals to you, but also makes the mission more enjoyable for as many as possible. Many of these things are a matter of taste and when it comes to art, this mission is your art: you do not need to apologize your decisions.

 

It indeed was a great mission and I enjoyed it a lot.

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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No it's okay I guess, it was just irritating that the bad things were 3x as long as the good things and I didn't know if you did like it overall or hate it then :wacko: It's okay what you said - I mean you explained everything well, so I udnerstand. We need critique to evolve, but we need also some candy :P

"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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you weren't supposed to be there and I can't understand how the hell you've made it there

post-9265-0-62299900-1334411230_thumb.jpg

Spidernoob, spidernoob, does whatever a spidernoob does :P

And with the sitting guy: There's often some problems with sitting or sleeping AI's in the game which I as mapper can not solve as far as I know. I'm sorry, I hope it wasn't too bad!
Wasn't aware of that - I can't have tried to KO many sitting AI's up till now.

we need also some candy

Just keep looking at the poll results :D
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Okay Mister! I learn for the future:

 

if $simplen00b alive == true && $simplen00b playsTDM == true then
cover every single brush with a noclip up to the sky

 

Haha - you're a ingenious little spidernoob, aren't ya?

 

:D :D :D

"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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My cue to give another thumbs up to the devs for making the climbing/mantling such a joy...

 

Okay Mister! I learn for the future:

if $simplen00b alive == true && $simplen00b playsTDM == true then
cover every single brush with a noclip up to the sky

It won't work. I. Will. Find. A. Way.

 

Mwaaaha haa ha (etc etc)

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My philosophy is, if a player can get up there legitimately, he or she deserves the accomplishment.*

 

_____________

* May or may not involve crashing, abysmal performance and/or rendering errors.

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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My philosophy is, if a player can get up there legitimately, he or she deserves the accomplishment.

 

legitimately

 

 

 

legitimately

 

 

 

 

legitimately

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

LOL-smiley-3-FB-Facebook-Cover-Timeline.jpg

"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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Everything is legitimate as long as it doesn't involve noclip or flight. Mantling? Legit. Crate stacking? A noble pursuit. Rope arrows in that single patch of wood the author forgot about? Dam straight that's also legit! :D

  • Like 2

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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SeriousToni: I just have to say WOW This is IMHO one of the best TDM missions I have played!!! Please do a sequel!!! to complete the story.

 

One question though is there a secret in the bathroom where there appears to be scrape marks on the floor?

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Hello pwl, thank you for that great plaudit :)

 

The bathroom:

 

 

There IS a secret but only if you did not knock out it before already.. ;)

 

 

"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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4692 loot

Stealth score: 5

 

EveryPaintingIsLoot!.fm

Enjoyed the new sounds and music, and of course the briefing.

Amusing: I woke up the inventor, he couldn't relight his candle, and then he went back to sleep.

Nice cacti, aka pricklies. Did you make them?

 

One problem though, the mission completion video failed to work (paused at the beginning) and I had to click through to get to the time/loot/stealth screen as multiple sound tracks tried to jockey into position. I think this is more symptomatic of a TDM mission completion bug than anything SeriousToni added; I've observed this kind of bug several times in the past.

 

Mod observations:

Great animation and sound for the campfire relighting.

Why does "Goods" say "Gooods"?

 

 

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Thank you a lot jaxa!

 

 

I liked the idea that paintings can be taken. They're valueable things, so why don't take them with you? Also they do make a nice look. I like paintings :)

 

Like the cacti I made all of the new objects by myself. I learned a bit of modeling to improve the map with new models :P

 

The problem with the ending video never happened to me. I hope you had a savegame right before the end of the mission so you could watch it (?) :(

 

 

"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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All these comments have got me salivating , can't wait to fire it up when I get home to the main computer!

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  • SeriousToni changed the title to Fan Mission: Sneak & Destroy, by SeriousToni, Beginner's Contest 2012 - Update 11/2022

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