Fan Mission: Footloose Museum Theft (V.2)

[thebigh]

Just now, snatcher said:

I think I figured out your "dark" trick @thebigh hehe

 

The patrol timings are actually really convenient, aren't they?

[snatcher]

Don't know yet. I meant that I wasn't aware this dark element existed and I took the long road.

[thebigh]

I'm not sure what "dark element" you're talking about. All I do for my ghost speedrun is run up to where the leg is and grab it when the inventor and the purse guy leave. That's not long after I get there because of the patrol timings. Then I run to the balcony to get the key that opens the vent hatch, again arriving just as the greybeard noble leaves. After that it's just up the vent, grab the other key, and to the exit. Nothing much to it.

[snatcher]

I didn't know the "Dark Key" existed so I first had to go upstairs, jump on the chandelier and onto the other room, pick up the key in there, etc...

[High John]

Simple but enjoyable.  Feedback suggestions:

• Most rooms too large.
• Museum too empty.  If displays are too complicated, at least chuck some paintings on the wall.
• The upstairs space should have a handrail (or similar) between the room and the chandelier.  Having nothing - so that people can just fall off - is too unrealistic.
• Likewise the crawlspaces between rooms.  Cover them with openable grates at least.
• Needs a loot objective, in addition to the main objective.

Edited February 8 by High John

[Zerush]

Congrats for the release, nice little mission. Somewhat basic environment, but good playable for TDM Newbies or as stealth training. Played yesterday, 15 min, 2 KO, all loot, score 0 in difficult mode.

[Frost_Salamander]

Just played this, had to see what all the fuss was about . I enjoyed it actually, despite the shortcomings pointed out by others. You just simply need to watch those Springheel tutorials and go through beta test and it would be infinitely better.

My own minor critiques:

• Spelling mistakes:
  • 'Mummified' is spelled wrong in the objectives
  • 'Maintenance' is spelled wrong in the instructions
• The stairs going up to the top floor is janky to walk on. This can be fixed by covering the stairs with a slanted brush made of clip texture, or appropriate nodraw_solid texture (e.g. tdm_nodrawsolid_carpet)
• The gate disappearing at the end felt weird. Just making it a door that opens or stopping the FM as you approach would have been better IMO.

[Goblin of Akenash]

On 2/7/2025 at 11:04 PM, thebigh said:

I did find one lockpick lying on the metal floor of the room with all the loot. I wonder if that was supposed to be there.

I found myself having a little more free time than I thought i would today and I decided to investigate this, sure enough I found the lock pick in dark radiant, it wasn't intentional but I think I know why it was there;


The original idea for the double doors was that you'd be able to get your hands on a lock pick through the shop or from somewhere else in the map and then you would be able to get a lockpick out of the coal room incase you got in there from the chandelier and couldn't figure out how to escape due to the doors being locked and the hypothetical player not thinking about parkouring out, I eneded up replacing all instances of lockpicks with keys since I could control the player's path a little more with keys.

(old screenshot of what the coal room looked like when I still had the lockpicks in there, Im pretty sure the screenshot is still from the key era though)

The height of the lock pick does vaguely match where I used to have it but its possible its there from other reasons


Anyways: new improvements soon(ish)....

Edited February 9 by Goblin of Akenash

[wesp5]

A funny little mission! I suggest instead of making another one, first finish this one in style using the comments of the other mappers here :).

[Goblin of Akenash]

@nbohr1more hey theres been an update and it contains alot of new visual stuff and some fixes and a slight layout overhaul, please update the map and the FM screenshots when you get a chance

Quick Goblin News:
I locked off progression more so your more isolated with the leg, I made the fact that there are multiple paths more clear and making 2 progression methods forward require the key that many thought was a secret and a readable mentioning the key, I can't work on voice work for the update video until monday but until then I am working on the script

[MirceaKitsune]

Thanks for the update, I may give the new version a try. Curious to see how you've improved at it and what has progressed. The original needed a lot of fixes, but especially for such a small FM it's quite doable.

[nbohr1more]

4 hours ago, Goblin of Akenash said:

@nbohr1more hey theres been an update and it contains alot of new visual stuff and some fixes and a slight layout overhaul, please update the map and the FM screenshots when you get a chance

Quick Goblin News:
I locked off progression more so your more isolated with the leg, I made the fact that there are multiple paths more clear and making 2 progression methods forward require the key that many thought was a secret and a readable mentioning the key, I can't work on voice work for the update video until monday but until then I am working on the script

The update has been added to the mission database.

Thank you!

[Skaruts]

Nice little mission. Had a bit of fun.  Could be improved, but it's not a bad start, I think. 

I'll try to add my 2 cents on top of what other people already said.

On gameplay/map related stuff:

Spoiler

• I think the ambient light is quite a bit too bright. 
• I think acquiring the gate at the end is a bit odd, but I can live with it.
• There's nothing to buy in the shop on Medium and Difficult. Seems a bit odd to find the shop empty. You could keep the amount of items the same on all difficulties, and just reduce the gold for the harder ones.
• Stairs are a bit glitchy, probably because the steps are too short (in depth, not height). I don't know what the minimum should be for player and AI to properly climb them, but I suppose it's around 16 to 20 units. I've been meaning to do some testing on this, but haven't done it yet. Making steps longer requires rethinking the stairs though, as they'll take up more space, but maybe prolonging the L-shape a bit can do the trick.
• The key referred to as the "Master Key" is called "Mysterious Key" in the inventory.
• I think metal floor is a bit odd in a museum. Usually a tile floor is more appropriate (look in stone -> smooth). Metal floors are usually more prevalent in industrial buildings, I think.
• found a couple z-fighting brushes:
  • Along the wall
  • The two bright metal bars (the 3rd bar on each side)

 

On the more technical stuff

Spoiler

• You should put a version number in darkmod.txt (e.g. "Version: 2"), so that people can tell if they're up to date
  • maybe also the tdm version you made the mission in (e.g. "Required TDM Version: 2.12"), so people know what the minimum version required is to play it
• might be better to not include the savegames folder in the pk4
• to block player movement, use the player_clip brushes, instead of caulk brushes. Or clip brushes if you want to block both player and AIs. Caulks are in every way like regular walls, except they're invisible. So, as it is, if a player shoots an arrow out from the balcony, the arrow will hit an invisible wall. Clip brushes don't block projectiles, so they're preferable for this.
• visportals have been mentioned, but I would add that ideally you should put a visportal at every doorway or window gap. As a bonus, double-doors will open together if they share a portal. (Important: when placing portals on actual doors and windows, the face that has the visportal texture should go through the inside of the door/window. Except in cases like the door with the metal bars.)
  • In general, you can look at any map as a succession of rooms connected by corridors or door/window gaps (vents are effectively corridors). By placing a visportal at every doorway/window, you ensure proper sound propagation, and also proper rendering occlusion. If a corridor does an L or U or O, then you should also put visportals around the corners.
  • In the case of this mission, the 1st room could use some visportals around the central walls (that room is essentially an O), and the 2nd room could use maybe a horizontal visportal at the stairs, and two vertical ones near the chandelier (one below and one above), to ensure the sound doesn't propagate directly through the ceiling. And you should also add visportals at all vent entrances, the door with the bars, the heating room door and the opening above it, the exit shaft, and all the balcony openings.
• I'll add a little more stuff in the next post because I can't post more screenshots in this one.

 

Edited March 4 by Skaruts

[Skaruts]

A bit more on the technical stuff:

Spoiler

The entire inside of the building is "visible" from the outside. This is why you can hear the AIs from the outside, and they can hear you. You can use "r_showtris 2" in the console to see it (you can also see visportals ingame using "r_showportals 1" in the console). 

This could be fixed by sealing off each area of the map from the others, by placing some caulk walls. Perhaps something like this (pink lines):

If those walls have no gaps, then nothing will leak from one area to the other around the outside of the map. 

Probably an easier alternative, instead of sealing off using those caulk walls, you can just add some visportals at the balcony entries and any other entry points.

I took 5 minutes to test my ideas, and both work fine. For visportals, though, you will have some leaks caused by some brushes that have non-sealing textures in some faces: collision, shadow and shader-not-found. You can easily replace all of those textures by selecting one face and then click "Edit->Select all of type" to select all faces with the same texture, and then just apply some sealing texture (either caulk or anything opaque that you would put on walls or floors).

 

 

Edited March 5 by Skaruts

[MirceaKitsune]

53 minutes ago, Skaruts said:

A bit more on the technical stuff:

No portals and area locations in the new version either? That was one of the biggest issues with the initial map: It's very lucky this is such a small FM else performance would be tanking.

[Skaruts]

I completely forgot about the location stuff and the ambient sounds. In this mission it's would probably just be two locations. Should be pretty straightforward. The key points for location_separators would be the balconies and the entrance window.

Edited March 4 by Skaruts

[datiswous]

What about adding efx?

Edited March 22 by datiswous

[MirceaKitsune]

Based on other comments mentioning this, as well as being busy with other things for now, I decided I'll skip on replaying this until visportals and location areas are patched. I partly want to encourage learning how to do those essentials: I think your FM's have good potential, but some of those aspects are basics without which they usually aren't ready.

I don't mean to say what to do or give homework, but if you decide to fix those last aspects: Add a visportal inside every door, also around the corners of corridors to cover their entrances. See about adding at least one or two locations with different music and ambient lighting, to get a hang of how location separators work and isolating rooms. You can use the N key in-game to toggle viewing portals, they should be red when a door is closed and green when it's open or no door.

Edited March 22 by MirceaKitsune

[datiswous]

1 hour ago, MirceaKitsune said:

You can use the N key in-game to toggle viewing portals

Never heard of the N key. Do you mean console command r_showportals N ?

[MirceaKitsune]

2 hours ago, datiswous said:

Never heard of the N key. Do you mean console command r_showportals N ?

Isn't it bound to N by default, or did I change it? But yes, I think that's the cvar: For me it's always been N for the longest time, I use it to toggle the green / yellow / red squares and check how portals close off each other.