The Dark Mod: Video Preview Of Gleeful's New Map.

[ascottk]

Wow, quite impressive. I couldn't help thinking that it could use a bit more colour though, and a bit more of a shift towards the blue end of the spectrum (makes it look more atmospheric and night-like). And the windows looked a bit samey, perhaps having more randomly lit windows, different sizes etc. would be a good idea? But brilliant stuff nonetheless, keep it up.

 

Blue? TDS made me sick of blue

[obscurus]

Blue? TDS made me sick of blue

 

 

TDS overdid it a bit, but in RL, the rods in your eye are more sensitive to blue and green light, so night time is not black and white, it is various shades of blue-green. Also, the cones with blue light sensitivity are the most sensitive in low light situations, so your most active cones at night are seeing blues and violets. Cinematic license is often taken to exaggerate this in films and games, to make it feel more moody.

 

But I was more referring to the colours of the walls - there seemed to be only one wall texture, and it was all grey. I thought the video was black and white apart from a few bits.

 

When making large maps of cities, it is important to have varying architechtural styles, different textures, i.e., variety. Old cities have buildings built on top of older buildings, old buildings next to new buildings, buildings built by different architects etc, and a good map will reflect this diversity. Thief did a good job of this...

 

I thought Gleeful's map was very good, but lacked colour and variety.

 

I hope I'm not being overly critical here, I just thought it was worth mentioning.

[gleeful]

Making the night grey rather than blue was a conscious decision. Don't let the video fool you however, it's a lot less dark and b/w in-game - the compression just eliminates all the finer nuances.

 

You're totally right about the windows though - I just slapped the same 2 textures in all the frames. That will of course be remedied in due course.

[obscurus]

I watched it again, and I guess the other thing I noticed was that most of the light sources were pure white, and while that might be appropriate for a modern setting with flourescent lighting, a quasi-mediaeval-cyberpunk-Victorian setting would seem to me to be better off with slightly yellowish lighting. I think it would really help to make it look more natural, though I did notice that there was a bit more colour than I saw the first time through.

 

Seriously, good stuff though, I trying to be constructive here!

[gleeful]

I watched it again, and I guess the other thing I noticed was that most of the light sources were pure white, and while that might be appropriate for a modern setting with flourescent lighting...

 

It's not the lights themselves actually (which are dark-orangey colored), but the lamp-textures which whiten out when close to the lightsource to my great dismay. It's on my to-do list.

[Maximius]

Blue? TDS made me sick of blue

 

 

TDS >made< me blue.

[Dram]

Realistically speaking, the light outside on a full moon looks grey/violet, which is what I'm using for my maps. Looks much better then blue imo, much more believable.

[obscurus]

Realistically speaking, the light outside on a full moon looks grey/violet, which is what I'm using for my maps. Looks much better then blue imo, much more believable.

 

 

The cones most sensitive in low light peak at 420nm, which is a bluish(450nm) violet (400nm). Your rods have a peak sensitivity at 498nm, which is bluish-green. The cones that see red light have the lowest sensitivity, so as long as you take a lot of the red out of the ambient lights for a night time scene, it will look about right.

[Capela]

Hi there, i just saw the video and seems very promisse indeed, the only thing that i didn´t like was the many windows on the buildings and all of them had light.

[OrbWeaver]

I thought the eye was insensitive to blue light, which is why blue looks "dark" while yellow looks "bright".

[obscurus]

I thought the eye was insensitive to blue light, which is why blue looks "dark" while yellow looks "bright".

 

 

Well, actually you are sort of right, the cones that detect yellow-green light are the most sensitive, however, at night time very little yellow light is emitted by most natural sources (light reflected off the moon shifts to blue due to the atmosphere), and emitted and reflected light tends to have less yellow in it. But if there is a fire or some other source of yellowish light, it will drown out other colours, and yellows will be especially visible.

[demagogue]

I took a class on this ages ago. But I do remember my prof pointing out that you sometimes see, like in movies, a tent at night using a red light, e.g., for pilots getting ready for a night-flight or soldiers planning a raid or whatever, so when they run out of the tent they won't have to worry about their eyes adjusting to the night; everything will be clear right away ... because red is the least sensitive, as obscurus said. And apparently all of this is by design (natural selection), something to do with red just not being around at night, so it wasn't built into the night-vision system (part of the whole theme of vision about the tension between 2 competing systems: animalistic, b/w, night vision, "fuzzy", motion sensitive vs. high detail, daytime, vivid color, etc.).

 

 

By the way, while we're on this completely irrelevant tangent , a curious thing is that we *see* colors in a cycle where red and violent actually connect (the color wheel, roygbiv), whereas in reality the spectrum is linear from red (low energy) to violent (higher energy), and there's no logical reason why it has to stop at red and violent, much less for them to seem to actually connect. It's just to say that our visual experience is somewhat an arbitrary selection of the total spectrum and has as much to do with biology and natural selection than what's the "reality".

Edited September 14, 2006 by demagogue

[Komag]

Yeah, but try explain how a dwarf sees in the dark!

[obscurus]

I took a class on this ages ago. But I do remember my prof pointing out that you sometimes see, like in movies, a tent at night using a red light, e.g., for pilots getting ready for a night-flight or soldiers planning a raid or whatever, so when they run out of the tent they won't have to worry about their eyes adjusting to the night; everything will be clear right away ... because red is the least sensitive, as obscurus said. And apparently all of this is by design (natural selection), something to do with red just not being around at night, so it wasn't built into the night-vision system (part of the whole theme of vision about the tension between 2 competing systems: animalistic, b/w, night vision, "fuzzy", motion sensitive vs. high detail, daytime, vivid color, etc.).

 

 

It all has to do with evolutionary history. Reptiles and birds have 3-4 visual pigments, and can see red very well. Mammals started out as nocturnal critters that had no need to see red light, since there is not much around at night, and lost the visual pigment that is sensitive to red light (a red flag appears black to a bull). However, some groups of mammal, notably the primates (we are primates), re-evolved a visual pigment that is sensitive to red light, however, it is far less sensitive than the one that reptiles and birds still posess, so we don't really se reds as well as we think. Pretty much all other mammals bar primates have dichromatic vision (humans, apes and monkeys have trichromatic vision): their cones detect light in the ultraviolet-blue range and in the yellow-green range, and most nocturnal mammals have far more rods than cones, further limiting their colour perception and ability to resolve detail. Nocturnal animals also tend to be very short-sighted. Diurnal animals (including us) have corneas and lenses that block UV light, even though their cones can detect it, to prevent damage to the retina during the day. If you have cataract surgery, you will theoretically be able to see UV for the first time.

 

Most night-time wildlife photography is shot using red filtered lights, and sometimes with red filters on the camera lens - nocturnal animals are oblivious to it, and are unaware that there is any light source.

[NeonsStyle]

The cones most sensitive in low light peak at 420nm, which is a bluish(450nm) violet (400nm). Your rods have a peak sensitivity at 498nm, which is bluish-green. The cones that see red light have the lowest sensitivity, so as long as you take a lot of the red out of the ambient lights for a night time scene, it will look about right.

 

This is true, however, red is very useful at night, as it doesn't not change your night vision (which is why all aircraft cockpits use red lights behind the instruments etc). I always play in the dark, and so I'm hoping (praying) the hud on the game will take advantage of that fact and give us a reddish hud.

 

Cool looking map, was surprised at the size. Just how big is it? grid coords.

 

 

Venus

[demagogue]

HUD? We don't need no stinking HUD.

[obscurus]

Exactly. What on Earth would you want a HUD for?

[ZylonBane]

Well, actually you are sort of right, the cones that detect yellow-green light are the most sensitive

Which is why many chipsets that generate 16-bit RGB give the leftover bit to the green channel (RGB 565 format).

[gleeful]

Hm, this thread has gone pretty much off-topic but has become rather educational I must say.

[swordbreaker]

seems like it is cancelled. any news?

[Mortem Desino]

Greetings everyone!

 

A lot has happened in my life in the last month and it looks like I won't have much time to contribute to this mod in the foreseeable future.

 

I have started a new job that demands my full attention (I only worked part-time for the last 2 years) and doesn't leave much space for anything else. It's all a bit overwhelming at the moment - I'm all happy-sad.

 

Anyways, just wanted to let you guys know.

 

Kind regards

gleeful

Dated: Oct 23 2006, 12:42 AM

 

It was a real shame, too. He made excellent-looking maps.

[BrokenArts]

As on TTLG, if they are abandoned, some people fork over the abandoned maps to someone else to finish. That may take awhile, but, eventually, they could see the light of day, if someone were to take on the mission/s.

[jdude]

Weird this is the first time I ever saw his work. To bad he left

[HappyCheeze]

Weird this is the first time I ever saw his work. To bad he left

 

Same here

[STiFU]

Man, who revived this thread? I performed a tripple backwards summersault when I read there was a new video preview... All for nothing!