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I believe that beyond bugfixes, you should pressure a programmer into developing a WYSIWYG readable editor module that could generate precise XF content - it would not be a hard task, and it would make the editing process quite efficient. Is there a feature request thread here? I could not find one.

That programmer would be me, I guess. It has been getting a bit of a lonesome task, coding on the editor. :) No way you can pressure me, though. :laugh:

 

This request has been brought up before, but getting an WYSIWYG editor to run is not trivial at all. So far, DarkRadiant doesn't render D3 GUIs, and readables are nothing else than D3 GUIs. First this would need support for fonts and GUI parsing and the second step would be to get these things to render correctly. Not an easy task, in fact very hard, but I guess it's an interesting one.

 

We used to have a request thread internally, but in the meantime this has changed and we're mainly using the Bugtracker for feature requests, mostly after a brief suggestion/discussion thread on the forums. Usually somebody says: "put this on the tracker" and then, usually weeks later I'm going to wade through all these reports and pick a task I'm motivated for. I prefer the "feature request is discussed first, bugtracker item is created later" paradigm, because then I don't have to deal with bugtracker entries like "Need a way to load Q3 maps in DarkRadiant, please, k thx. => Priority set to urgent"

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So I have this gigantic scorpion, it is made out of pendulums bound together. I had an idea about dragging whole thing through a piled up crates (pretending to be stone blocks in a wall), but it looks

I'm just going to make the lute player an undead immortal skeleton called Ralph who is eternally bound to play his lute in the tavern, the residents are used to him now so they just happily co-exist a

Thanks for the advice about the tent, guys. Finally got around to (mostly) fixing it; shadows were indeed the problem.    

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Fidcal: I will keep both methods in mind, thanks. I have so far used layers to remove startpack AI from the editor, since when several of those are in view, the editor slows down considerably (plus there is the issue of clutter), but getting into the practice you suggested is a good idea.

 

greebo: that's a respectable position, so don't take it as heckling. Whenever it's done will be all right with me.

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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Well, about the Wysiwyg editor for readables, notepad++ and editplus both have the ability to do this, it would just require someone to make a translation file. So instead of the C++ markup module, you'd have to create a Darkmod Readable markup module. I'll look into this today after I wake up, I'm still asleep.zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

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Fidcal: I am still missing them - say, if I am constructing a building made of a solid block, and later want to create an interior, building that can take a lot more work than if I had air brushes. In some cases, I resorted to CSG substract for simpler hollowing work because no, I am not going to cut apart complex architecture and readjust it wall by wall. Otherwise, the editor's virtues are obvious; here are some standouts that have impressed me:

  • fast WYSIWYG editing, no portalisation (downside: have to load Doom3 to enter game mode, must exit DR every time because otherwise I get horrible lag - it takes long to load levels on my laptop, too)
  • cutting brushes into conves shapes with the clipper tool, easy splitting for clean brushwork
  • patches - they can replicate a lot of air functions, and create the kind of arch-heavy look you have to be very conservative with in Dromed (downside: bevels don't always look good when you put on the textures - distortion can result at the top; sometimes finicky)
  • func_static and prefabs; this can be incredibly powerful
  • rotating entire buildings without pain to create angled spaces. I did a lot of angles in Dromed to generally good effect, but damn I suffered. Here, it is painless.
  • filters and layers, easy grid scaling
  • stretching textures to brush faces.

There may be more, including so far unexplored functionality, but these have been the most obvious.

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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Melan, for those arches with messed up tex, I was having that and had to relearn. Halfway down..http://modetwo.net/d...p?title=Patches

 

 

First make the bottom u-shaped part. tex it and hit natural. This will follow the bend and tex will align good.

You can always use the texture editor to align exact ('T' I think, that lets you drag verts like 3d program UV function).

 

Now instead of making the sides out of a bevel [inverted endcap] (that fills in both corners to make the arch flush with wall) use 'thicken patch'. this will extrude the bottom of arch up the sides and make a thick arch, and the tex alignment comes from the already aligned middle part. Perfect tex alignment. (delete end caps/top that won't be seen).

 

Now choose one of the sides (that was extruded) and make a bevel from that to fill the gaps up to the wall above and beside the arch.

----------------

yeah, exiting DR to go to Doom is probably the least friendly bit but seeing stuff realtime in editor is invaluable.

 

I think the main change is getting used to the fact that you don't have to complile often. Dare I say you could build a whole mission without compile, compile once, check for errors and go fix them.

 

With Dromed you HAVE to compile frequently. So in the long run I think it's a huge time saver if you take advantage of it. (I tend to go ingame and play around too much).

 

When I compile I close DR based on what I'm checking as I also drop 10 FPS. So if it's a quick sound/light check I leave DR running. If It's more extensice, AI/FPS check I'll close DR.

Major terrain changes I usually leave it open just in case I get a leak.

Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

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yeah, exiting DR to go to Doom is probably the least friendly bit but seeing stuff realtime in editor is invaluable.

 

Yes, this is a silver-lining. I like that when I see a glitch in-game, I can immediately fix it in DR while I'm still looking at it.

 

Even if we get a feature in DR that effectively opens Doom3 and 'dmap's or 'map's it to get in-game, I hope the ability to still edit in DR is kept.

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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Yes, on my old machine I couldn't run both DR and Doom3 together except for tiny test maps. But it is a system thing and on my new machine I have Doom3 running in a full screen window mode along with DR just fine. I've got the full window exactly matching using a 3rd party keyboard macro to dead centre so there isn't even a window border showing. I can't even really notice any difference with true full screen mode on this mode so I only use that for real play. :) Luxury! :laugh:

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I understand that it's a bad idea to have brushes overlapping where they will cause z-fighting, and it's bad when they lead to a lot of extra triangles, but is it always essential to not have them intersect?

 

More importantly: what about patches? Do I need to spend hours adjusting vertices say if two patches meet at a concave right angle, or can I just leave them be?

 

And finally, am I understanding correctly that func_statics can intersect with brushes (and patches) just fine, with no detrimental affect of any kind?

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As I understand it, brush and patch intersections are okay as long as their faces don't try to occupy the same plane. Thus, angles are all right.

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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Yes, you get Z-fighting when two surfaces in the same plane overlap but not when they cross.

 

The func_static question is a big general question so can only answer briefly. A func_static is a passive entity. It can be a model or it can be a brush or patch, or several brushes and patches combined. If a func_static intersects a brush then it depends on the situation what the effect will be. Probably the main concern is that entities (not just func_static but any enities) do not seal against the void nor do they seal a visportalled area. An entity can cut through a visportal or through a wall into a visportalled area. It won't cause a leak or other error but it will be rendered both sides so depending what you are doing it is not recommended. But you could not, for instance, make a doorframe out of a func_static and then place a visportal brush *exactly* within it (there would be an 'internal' leak from one portal area to the next and it will be as if there is no visportal.) You would have to make sure the visportal brush cuts right through the func_static doorframe to the worldspawn brush surrounding it. As far the visportal is concerned just pretend the func_static doorframe isn't there.

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Worldspawn (I.E. a brush or patch that hasn't been turned into an entity) generally shouldn't have to overlap. It's not essential that you use perfect mapping form, but you tend to get a little better performance and dmap time if you do.

 

Weasel's patches? That's fine. Patches aren't as fickle as brushes are (one of the reason's I'm fond of using them).

yay seuss crease touss dome in ouss nose tair

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Hi again, i have 2 questions.

 

First, i am getting a few red warnings everytime i am testing my map but i cant read them because they are going by to fast. Is there a log file where i can check them? Ah and the map is starting normally.

 

Second, i have tried this tut "http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Patches" i am at "Select Patch > Bevel" and then i get something completly different to what you can see on the pics. I am going to upload a pic, one mom.

 

 

Bevel.jpg

Edited by Sonosuke

Ich konnte mich nicht erinnern Teleportation gezaubert zu haben und doch stand ich da... alleine und nackt.

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Hi again, i have 2 questions.

 

First, i am getting a few red warnings everytime i am testing my map but i cant read them because they are going by to fast. Is there a log file where i can check them? Ah and the map is starting normally.

 

Second, i have tried this tut "http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index. php?title=Patches" i am at "Select Patch > Bevel" and then i get something completly different to what you can see on the pics. I am going to upload a pic, one mom.

 

Open up the console after you are done testing your map. Type in: condump filename.txt, the file will show up in the Darkmod directory.

 

EDIT: I've already put a feature request on the bug tracker so that we can get the create bevel command working like Simple Patch Mesh. Right now create Bevel creates a bevel always in the same orientation so as you noticed that sucks when you have stretched out a brush and have it lined up properly, just to have the Bevel all weird. You just have to rotate it and squish and stretch it to fit for now.

I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

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Thanks for the fast answer AluminiumHaste! ;)

 

Open up the console after you are done testing your map. Type in: condump filename.txt, the file will show up in the Darkmod directory.

 

ok....

"WARNING: node without a volume" ??

"WARNING: backwards triangle in input!" Something is inside of a patch?

"WARNING: ConvertLWOToModelSurfaces: model models/darkmod/weapons/hammer02.lwo has too many verts for a poly! Make sure you triplet it down" should i remove the hammer from the map?

and some could not load image warnings

 

EDIT: I've already put a feature request on the bug tracker so that we can get the create bevel command working like Simple Patch Mesh. Right now create Bevel creates a bevel always in the same orientation so as you noticed that sucks when you have stretched out a brush and have it lined up properly, just to have the Bevel all weird. You just have to rotate it and squish and stretch it to fit for now.

 

ah yeah after squishing and stretching :D it works just fine, thanks

Edited by Sonosuke

Ich konnte mich nicht erinnern Teleportation gezaubert zu haben und doch stand ich da... alleine und nackt.

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Thanks for the fast answer AH!

AH! Don't do that! You scared me! :o

 

 

ok....

"WARNING: node without a volume" ??

"WARNING: backwards triangle in input!" Something is inside of a patch?

"WARNING: ConvertLWOToModelSurfaces: model models/darkmod/weapons/hammer02.lwo has too many verts for a poly! Make sure you triplet it down" should i remove the hammer from the map?

and some could not load image warnings

You can ignore those first two warnings. Too many verts on hammer02.lwo is something that a modeller will have to fix, but the model can stay in your map; nothing will break on account of a single bad poly. :)

yay seuss crease touss dome in ouss nose tair

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You can ignore those first two warnings. Too many verts on hammer02.lwo is something that a modeller will have to fix, but the model can stay in your map; nothing will break on account of a single bad poly. :)

 

^_^ thank you that makes me feel better. Everything works just fine, i cant beleve how great this mod is. Installed > works^^ I maybe on time for the christmas contest...

 

Edit: heh nice

 

bevelfinished2.jpg

Edited by Sonosuke

Ich konnte mich nicht erinnern Teleportation gezaubert zu haben und doch stand ich da... alleine und nackt.

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Sorry if this has been said somewhere already, but I couldn't find an answer with the search (except posts in Oszkár's thread saying it's not currently possible in DR): is resizing models simply impossible, as in not going to be in some future version of DR because it's somehow not feasible, or just not implemented yet? I suppose I could learn how to resize models in max or some other modeler, but it just seems like a huge amount of effort for such a simple thing (though if I'll keep on mapping long enough I probably will one day try it anyway).

 

 

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Ninja'd but still here's the same method.

 

Sorry if this has been said somewhere already, but I couldn't find an answer with the search (except posts in Oszkár's thread saying it's not currently possible in DR): is resizing models simply impossible, as in not going to be in some future version of DR because it's somehow not feasible, or just not implemented yet? I suppose I could learn how to resize models in max or some other modeler, but it just seems like a huge amount of effort for such a simple thing (though if I'll keep on mapping long enough I probably will one day try it anyway).

Generally not recommended but I do it a lot. This method does not work with any AI or corpses. It does not work with moveables or movers*. It does not work with *all* static models anyway. So you have to try it on a particular model then check it in-game to see if it looks and works correctly. It's a hack. This is how I do it.

 

Do not rotate the model first. If you have delete the rotation property.

 

Give the model this property:

rotation 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1

That mean unrotated scale normal. (a quick way to get the above from UNrotated is rotate 45 degrees then back again in top view.)

The 1's are the scale so double all sides would be 2 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 2

Or half width double height might be 0.5 0 0 0 0.5 0 0 0 2

 

The collision model is now wrong so make the model solid 0.

 

Now you can walk through it so build a nodraw solid brush(es) inside roughly the shape (there are nodraw solid textures for different materials so pick the right one eg, wood so it sounds correct when impacted.) This stage is not necessary for unreachable models like a giant gargoyle high up a stone wall.

 

Finally, the texture specular map won't scale so the texture might go unnaturally dark, almost black. Avoid those. But many models work fine.

 

* I am unsure about movers - it might be OK if they are symmetrically resized, eg, all dimensions doubled.

 

 

[EDIT] I forgot a stage. The shadow will be wrong. Set the model noshadows 1 so it has no shadow. If you want a shadow then make the inner brush to be a real material like wood.

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You can always request a model/size change. Not saying it will happen but if it seems like something reasonable that alot of people could use we might be able to update with a new size. Generally though we've tried to be realistic with scale and offer various sizes in models that needed them.

 

Something like 'I want a 10 foot tall beer mug' will most likely be ignored.

Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

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That programmer would be me, I guess. It has been getting a bit of a lonesome task, coding on the editor. :) No way you can pressure me, though. :laugh:

 

This request has been brought up before, but getting an WYSIWYG editor to run is not trivial at all. So far, DarkRadiant doesn't render D3 GUIs, and readables are nothing else than D3 GUIs. First this would need support for fonts and GUI parsing and the second step would be to get these things to render correctly. Not an easy task, in fact very hard, but I guess it's an interesting one.

 

We used to have a request thread internally, but in the meantime this has changed and we're mainly using the Bugtracker for feature requests, mostly after a brief suggestion/discussion thread on the forums. Usually somebody says: "put this on the tracker" and then, usually weeks later I'm going to wade through all these reports and pick a task I'm motivated for. I prefer the "feature request is discussed first, bugtracker item is created later" paradigm, because then I don't have to deal with bugtracker entries like "Need a way to load Q3 maps in DarkRadiant, please, k thx. => Priority set to urgent"

 

Yeah working on that, how do you get C# do display DDS images as a label's background image?

I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

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You can always request a model/size change. Not saying it will happen but if it seems like something reasonable that alot of people could use we might be able to update with a new size. Generally though we've tried to be realistic with scale and offer various sizes in models that needed them.

 

Something like 'I want a 10 foot tall beer mug' will most likely be ignored.

Yeah, most of the models I've used have been perfectly fine, and pillars and such often fit the surroundings better when made yourself for the specific mission anyway. I guess I'll try the modeling software route if real need arises, shouldn't be too hard to figure out since I have dabbled with 3ds max and some other such programs before. In the meantime, thanks to Fidcal for the explanation regarding the rotate hack

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Yeah working on that, how do you get C# do display DDS images as a label's background image?

Convert the image to a format it understands. Look for an image conversion library written in C# (or with bindings to C#) that supports DDS. I found DevIL.NET and XNA without even trying - just Googled "c# dds" and that came straight up. You're welcome. :P

 

However, replicating D3's GUI code sounds like a fairly challenging coding task for the uninitiated. Getting the images working is only a small part of the battle. Might I suggest getting everything else working first, and then coming back to proper image display later?

My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.
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