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As of v3.8 and as reported in 5467, DR only supports prefab tooltips for prefabs that contain a worldspawn entity (at least one brush or patch that's left as worldspawn) with an editor_description spawnarg. This is problematic because most prefabs don't contain such an entity, so if a prefab creator desires to include a tooltip something like a brush cube needs to be added to the prefab (see for instance 6267). This is a little messy as the mapper might not understand its purpose or forget to remove it after placing the prefab. It's also tricky to create a series of prefabs with descriptions in a single map because there can only be one editor_description spawnarg in the map at a time, so the creator has to store each tooltip in an external file like a Notepad .txt. I think an ideal solution to this would be that DR prompts for a description when exporting something as a prefab. The prompt window could already be populated if the mapper is overwriting an existing prefab with a description, or if the selection contains a worldspawn entity with an editor_description spawnarg. More flexibility in making tooltips for prefab would imo certainly be a valuable quality of life improvement.

Here's my first FM. A small and easy mission, inspired by Thief's Den and The Bakery Job, where you must find and steal a cook's recipe book in order to save a friend from going out of business. Download: Mediafire (sk_cooks.pk4) TDM Website's Mission Page The in-game mission downloader Thanks to: The people who helped me get this far, both in the forums and on Discord. The beta testers: MirceaKitsune, Mat99, Baal, wesp5, Cambridge Spy, jaxa, grodenglaive, Acolytesix ( Per the author in the beta testing thread. ) Skaruts has given permission to the TDM Team to add Subtitles or Localization Strings to this mission. (No EFX Reverb.) If anyone from the Community or TDM team wishes to create these we will gladly test them and update the mission database.

With TDM 2.12, after the credits finished, the "Mission Complete" screen did not display. I found that the screen was black and I could hear my footsteps when I tried to move around. I think the reason for the mission not completing successfully was that the "Do not kill or harm allies" objective was never marked as "1 = STATE_COMPLETE" instead it was left as "0 = STATE_INCOMPLETE". Note, I didn't use noclip throughout the mission. Same as: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/18054-fan-mission-the-accountant-2-new-in-town-by-goldwell-20160509/&do=findComment&comment=458491

How about using TDM automation framework (and maybe pcem/qemu)? More info see: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/19828-automation-features-and-discussion/

Getting a bunch of warnings on map start, I think related to subtitles? It happens when I put the AI entity 'atdm:ai_townsfolk_female' in my map. WARNING:Couldn't load SRT file 'subtitles/lady02//tdm_ai_lady_alertdown_to_idle_heard08.srt' for sound 'sound/voices/lady02/tdm_ai_lady_alertdown_to_idle_heard08.ogg' according to decl 'tdm_ai_lady02' WARNING:Couldn't load SRT file 'subtitles/lady02//tdm_ai_lady_alertdown_to_idle_seen_evidence04.srt' for sound 'sound/voices/lady02/tdm_ai_lady_alertdown_to_idle_seen_evidence04.ogg' according to decl 'tdm_ai_lady02' WARNING:Couldn't load SRT file 'subtitles/lady02//tdm_ai_lady_idle09.srt' for sound 'sound/voices/lady02/tdm_ai_lady_idle09.ogg' according to decl 'tdm_ai_lady02' WARNING:Couldn't load SRT file 'subtitles/lady02//tdm_ai_lady_idle11.srt' for sound 'sound/voices/lady02/tdm_ai_lady_idle11.ogg' according to decl 'tdm_ai_lady02'

@Dragofer I was trying see whether the immobilization event is somehow leaking \ executing at the wrong time. When tracking down the parts, I see a bind to "MoverLookSkelly" but no corresponding entity in the map? // entity 1040 { "classname" "target_null" "name" "target_LookSkelly" "bind" "MoverLookSkelly" "cinematic" "1" "origin" "6772.01 -1056 6660" }

I don't notice an issue with moving at map start. Do you mean you can't move at all? There are a few small furniture pieces around the player that might cause you to be unable to move further in certain directions. The only time I immobilise the player in that FM is when a cutscene camera is activated, long after map start. I didn't know about immobilisation flags back then. Thanks for the subtitles!

No I can't see the videos. Put them up on Youtube as non-listed videos. Also, what's your system? Is it a relatively slow or older system? The first time one enters a location, there's some work being done that might be pre-churned from then on, so I think it might have something to do with the work load slowing all kinds of things down, including the ambient going online. If you know your way around DR (or editing the map file directly), you could test things like setting the native volume of the location entity to zero from the start, and see if it happens when other speakers turn on for other reasons the first time, like a trigger. It may be an issue that all speakers face that this system inherits.

It's a bit off topic, but I post this here for now, maybe useful. To find all the places where conversations take place, to review subtitles, you can use the following procedure: Use console command listEntities Then search for atdm:conversation_info entities, check their names (actually, it's easier to just open the map file in a text editor and search for atdm_conversation_info and copy all the names of those entities) Then use command teleport [name of atdm:conversation_info entity] You might have to search the trigger that activates the conversation.

That was fun! A very impressive, sprawling map with lots to do. Love it! I did get stuck with ...For whatever reason, my installation is one where you don't fit through the gap in the wall, and the peepholes don't work either. (Yes, it is Linux) I never did find But I did manage to figure out 3 of the 4 Good Deeds unaided.

Related to looking into the stray marks associated with Stone font characters... I've noticed that the nominal 12 pt DDS (which as discussed above only kicks in under 8 pt) has only ASCII glyphs... nothing with code points above 127. Maybe that's why the corresponding 12 pt DAT file was not distributed, as a workaround to force the engine to use 24pt instead, because tels never got around to finishing the low-priority aspects of the project. The 24 pt DDS does have the ANSI glyphs. At a glance, most are fine; a few are a bit ragged. I didn't check compliance and completeness with TDM's character map as given on the wiki. I don't feel ANSI improvement is a 2.12 item. I've got a test FM to show all the characters. At some point, after refinement, I'll post a link.

Hm, I am not sure I follow. Shouldn't the behaviour of the Rim shader be independet of actual geometric complexity and normal map based complexity? If the answer is yes, then brushes should also look fine because the applied material provides geometric complexity. Reshade is awesome. I use it all the time to improve the visuals of old classics. The Post-Lightmaps-Era games just look so much better with some SSAO...

Interesting. I didn't know about Doom 3 co-op (I don't know why). Instead of all being in the same place inside the mission, missions could be designed around locations (in the same map). So you play each your own part, but objectives are shared. So you play different mission objectives around the same global objective. It means also that a player could find a clue when reading a book but another player has to do that objective. So for example: Shared mission objectives: Find the ring of Thruth (Church section) - Player A Find information about hidden loot (Thief hideout) - Player B Search for a clue about the hidden passage in the Church (library section) - Player C So when Player C finds the info in the library section, Player A can find that hidden passage in the church section.

Bumping this thread. I was trying to parse the code for LibreCoop recently, the multiplayer coop mod for Doom3, or Dhewm3 more exactly. The main alternative is OpenCoop, but I think LibreCoop is more developed. Anyway, it got me thinking how much work would have to go into a coop mod for TDM. It's still my biggest wish item. The idea I got was one has to basically walk system by system through the code and think about the client and server side of packet swapping. TDM has a lot more and more complicated systems than Doom3, but once you start getting a feel for it, I think the basic system doesn't change that much. In a way it reminded me a bit of a pared down save/load system, what you need to update a game state, except you're streaming it in in real game-time, and you using tricks to fill in gaps to ease the load. The other thing I noticed is that maps themselves need their scripts tweaked and anything else happening in the world. But I wonder if there's a way to procedurally do that when a map is loading, so one could just use the FM files as released. It looks like it'd take more than a year or two if one were working steadily through it, although I think one would get efficient at it over time. Like I was noticing, there's a consistent logic to it. But most of all I think it'd be worth it. I really like Thief coop, and I think it'd be great for TDM. I'm just FYI'ing about it now because I was browsing through the other coop mods. Not even soliciting opinions or anything. Just thinking aloud (avisible?) about it.

To cater to both audiences. I mentioned LibreGameWiki as one example. nbohr1more mentioned other uses. Explicitly allowing reuse and spread will help TDM reach a wider audience and would hopefully attract more volunteers. More volunteers which can help improve both TDM versions. There are several benefits for a project of being in the Debian repo. One is that TDM Debian-users can report defects on any package directly to Debian (no need to register on separate forums). Debian may then fix the issue themselves (in their "TDM-libre" package) and will offer the patch upstream to TDM, who can then choose to accept or reject the patch. I envision "TDM-libre" to have the same capability of downloading any mission as regular TDM. The only difference is that "TDM-libre" would come packaged with the regular engine (which is GPL+BSD) and an included mission that has libre media/gamedata. When I play TDM by myself, I want the unlimited-play and can accept commercial restrictions. But if I were to promote it somewhere, or charge for a stream when playing online, or make a video, I would want a version without commercial restrictions (and can temporarily accept limited-play) to make sure I don't violate anyone's copyright. Perhaps. That's what I'm trying to find out.

I suggest you use the term "I", to make clear that it is something YOU want, and that you speak for yourself. But, as wesp5 mentioned, I don't really know what this is about, at all. And, I'm also wondering about all the newly registered people lately, who just arrived at this forum, and already want to revolutionize this mod. This is a thing I noticed 2 or 3 years ago, and which hasn't been present in the 15 years I play this mod and frequent these forums now. Really seems like a common thing these days, to not knock on the door, but kick it in, and stomp right in.

When talking about a possible libre version of TDM (https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22346-libre-version-of-tdm/) it seems we believe all media/gamedata included in TDM is licensed CC-BY-NC-SA. I am not familiar with how the process of adding new media/gamedata works today; I have seen files uploaded to the bugtracker which developers then commit to SVN, but I don't know if there are other ways. It may be a good idea to implement a process that when new components (media/gamedata included in TDM) are added, the contributor is asked to be explicit about the license (a choice which may defaults to their previous preference, for usability). It won't fix the past, but it may help in the future. This will make it easy for contributors to add future data under a more permissive license if they choose. Libre media can be added and its license can be tracked, rather than assumed to be CC-BY-NC-SA. I suggest looking at how Wikimedia Commons has implemented this: the contributor state the source and license at the time the data is uploaded. This can be done either by providing urls or by saying "It's my work and I choose this licsense". The first step could be to add a way to keep track of each filepath in SVN, author, license, sources. Start by setting the value for each file's license to "(default/legacy CC-BY-NC-SA)". Possible implementations for a user interface for new additions are: * Use our own wiki, which runs Mediawiki (same as Wikimedia Commons). I see several benefits of this, but we also need a way to accept uploads of batches, not just single files. * Look at how other open source projects have solved this. There may be more appropriate solutions available. ... but I'll leave the implementation open. Suggestions are very welcome! If the author of each file already in SVN can be tracked, then it may be possible that the author is willing to give a blanket permission for all their past files in one statement, and all their files in SVN can be updated in one commit. A productive contributor willing to release some of their work under a more permissive license could make a big change. If Dark Radiant would support letting mappers search media/gamedata by license (does it already?), it would make it easier for mappers to create a completely libre mission, which would help facilitate a TDM-libre release. If I understand things correctly. This post does not address all details and it may contain misunderstandings or assumptions, but it's a start. Also relevant: * Is there a compiled and maintained list of recommended or deprecated resources for mappers to use? * https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/20311-external-art-assets-licensing/

Yes, I considered this idea. But it won't help much, I believe. If several mirrors are allowed, you can split your surface into individual planar polygons and hope for the best. But if you have 10+ polygons, then I suppose the best won't happen Internally, the material has "mirrorRenderMap" keyword which triggers rendering of subview. This subview is than copied into a texture. In the main view, the surfaces with mirror material should be rendered as any other surfaces, it can just use this dynamically generated surface. I'm not sure what exactly you want. If you want the mirrored view to be distorted by normal map, then yes: this is definitely not supported. The reflected texture is generated as if reflected by a perfect plane. Maybe we can add some kind of warp shader that deforms the image mathematically according to the normalmap, but this would be a new feature.

I did play Thief and FMs, but I don't play it any more, except for major things like Black Parade. The clunky movement and antiquated Dromed editor is what discouraged me from interacting with it over the years. I regularly play and sometimes make content for TDM, because it has much better movement model than Thief. I know that most missions don't use it well, but if you construct your geometry (gaps, ledges, distances) using power of two measurements, movement and mantling feels fast and snappy. There's no need for regression in that regard, in my opinion, there's a need for assets and missions made with the movement model in mind, to showcase its strengths properly. Even if TDM originally intended to "simulate the stealth gameplay of Thief, many things will be familiar to veteran Thief players" the actual mod history was a bit different. The team came up with a mission platform that has its own identity when it comes to mechanics. The way assets were made might have been a huge mistake, but that didn't prevent the platform from growing. Since you like anecdotal evidence, noone other Skacky once said that TDM movement model was super clunky, after playing The Painter's Wife. It was really hard to convince him that if a mapper places geometry this poorly, and isn't aware what spatial measurements play to the strengths of a movement model, no movement model will save his mission. And there is no fixing of this problem on the engine side, although it's not the first time when TDM team tries to address the asset problem with engine changes, which I suspect will ultimately lead to even more problems down the line. In game development, things like core mechanics and player tools are locked-down first, in one of the pre-production phases, because all the levels will be constructed around them. Making changes in core mechanics in a project this mature is very risky, I assume you don't plan on going through all playable spaces in all released TDM FMs to check for errors. Instead of making incremental changes in fundamental mechanics, I'd encourage you to create a fork, or some kind of major version bump candidate, like 3.0, where all things could be revamped: movement, player tools, UI, new frob mechanics, perhaps with UI contextual icons, new training map to incorporate all that, etc. Once all new elements fall into place and create something new, with a map or maps to back it up as relevant changes, it will be easier to convince existing player/author base that it was worth it. I assume the existing fanbase is already fragmented, as a result of all those heated discussions around the topic. But with multiple versions available for download, the transition to hypothetical "TDM 3.0" should be easier. It could be similar to UE2 and UE3, and you could also use this as an occasion to draw the line for backwards compatibility. I know there are old systems and variables kept in place just in order not to break existing missions. This way you could e.g. redo the LOD system, implement lights using math functions instead of textures, etc.

TDM has tons of textures from "free" texture resources that do not allow redistribution and cannot be incorporated into a commercial project. Someone would need to create a huge replacement pack of textures that do not break the look of existing missions and do not infringe on the copyrighted textures. Also, many artists who contributed to this project do not want 3rd party entities to use their work in commercial projects. They intended the models, textures, sounds, animations to be exclusively used for Darkmod content. You would either have to replace ALL assets or contact every contributor and ask them to re-license their assets. Many contributors are no longer active with the project and haven't visited the forums in years so it would be no easy feat. I cannot speak to Debian policy but I think that they treat installers that add non-free content the same as non-free content itself. One could argue that Steam is such an installer but I guess Debian would counter that there are a few fully Libre games on Steam. I think Debian, Ubuntu, or Linux Mint need to consider a repo that allows for games (etc) that include non-libre content but intentionally offer this content for free to the community with no stipulations other than "don't try to sell it as a product".

This post differentiates between "gratis" ("at no monetary cost") and "libre" ("with little or no restriction") per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratis_versus_libre * A libre version of TDM could: ** Qualify TDM for an article on the LibreGameWiki *** TDM is currently listed as rejected https://libregamewiki.org/Libregamewiki:Rejected_games_list because "Media is non-commercial (under CC-BY-NC-SA 3.0). The engine is free though (modified Doom 3) (2013-10-19)" ** Qualify for software repositories like Debian *** TDM is currently listed as unsuitable https://wiki.debian.org/Games/Unsuitable#The_Dark_Mod because 1) "The gamedata is very large (2.3 GB)", and 2) "The license of the gamedata (otherwise it must go into non-free with the engine into contrib)" and links to https://svn.thedarkmod.com/publicsvn/darkmod_src/trunk/LICENSE.txt Questions: 1) tdm_installer.linux64 is 4.2 MB (unzipped), which is far from the 2.3 GB which is said to be too large. Yes, the user can use it to download data that is non-libre, but so can any web browser too. If the installer itself is completely libre, does anyone know the reason why it cannot be accepted into the Debian repository? 2) If adding the installer to the repository is not a viable solution, would it be possible to package the engine with a small and beginner friendly mission built only from libre media/gamedata into a "TDM-libre" release, and add user friendly functionality to download the 2.3 GB media/gamedata using "TDM-libre" (similar to mission downloading)? 3) Would such a "TDM-libre" release be acceptable for the Debian repository? 4) Would such a "TDM-libre" release be acceptable for LibreGameWiki? 5) Would the work be worth it? * Pros: Exposure in channels covering libre software (e.g. the LibreGameWiki). Distribution in channels allowing only libre software (e.g. the Debian repository). * Cons: The work required for the modifictions and release of "TDM-libre". Possible maintenance of "TDM-libre". I'm thinking that the wider reach may attract more volunteers to work on TDM, which may eventually make up for this work and hopefully be net positive. 6) Are there any TDM missions that are libre already today? If not, would anyone be willing to work on one to fulfill this? I'll contribute in any way I can. 7) I found the following related topics on the forum: * https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/16226-graphical-installers-for-tdm/ (installing only the updater) * https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/16640-problems-i-had-with-tdm-installation-on-linux-w-solutions/ (problems with installation on Linux) * https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/17743-building-tdm-on-debian-8-steamos-tdm-203/ (Building TDM on Debian 8 / SteamOS) * https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/18592-debian-packaging/ (Dark Radiant) ... but if there are other related previous discussions, I'd appreciate any links to them. Any thoughts or comments?

The gamepad implementation allows for a great degree of flexibility to personalize settings, aside from a few minor issues that I mentioned here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22337-gamepad-bindings/ I would say that playing TDM with a gamepad works very well, especially considering that it was implemented as experimental and hasn't been changed since then. If I could, I'd go back to 2021-you and congratulate you on buying that gamepad. I notice that your DarkmodPadbinds.cfg looks very different from mine...

It seems like more and more "thief" and "thief players" is becoming a short hand to dismiss community members earnest desire to improve the game - which happens to be a barely legally distinct "thief style" game which was made by thief fans for thief fans and is "designed to simulate the stealth gameplay of Thief". Who is the predominant player base of the game supposed to be beyond fans of the thief games? Is there some better avenue to find feedback for the game beyond this forum? FOSS and linux forums? I have seen maybe half a dozen posts from that segment. I am a thief fan, I play thief fms, my association with those games is what drives me to play and make things for this game. Are we supposed to pretend the original games are not a huge reason why most of us are here at all? TL;DR version:

Would someone be willing to help adjusting some of the following mapping and model issues and suggestions? Mapping: * 0006364: Ladder cuts into the arch and the northern door when door is opened (https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6364) * 0006365: Ladder in the wood shed cuts into a barrel (https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6365) * 0006366: Clouds in the sky do not move in Tears of St. Lucia (https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6366) * 0006374: Chandeliers in church hall (https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6374) * 0006396: Return check is too sensitive (https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6396) * 0006376: Wrong trigger for the hint about the hammer (https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6376) * 0006395: Wall of church grounds unfinished (https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6395) * 0006423: Graft map A New Job and map Tears of St. Lucia (https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6423) * Training Mission, room Archery: Walking on the stone path outside the shooting range sounds like walking on grass. Floor in tower sounds OK. (-225.92 -807.79 240.29 32.6 -146.3 0.0) Models: * 0006373: Failure to pick lock of chest (https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6373) * 0006375: Locked doors have no keyholes (https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6375) * 0006381: Issues with model fence around the pulpit (https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6381) * 0006382: The depth of the seats of the benches are too narrow (https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6382) * 0006397: Some banners with builder symbol look sqashed narrow (https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6397) The following are listed as authors of the mission: * Original map: Jdude * Story: Springheel * Additional mapping: Springheel, Fidcal, Bikerdude, Greebo, datiswous (not listed), JackFarmer (not listed)