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Sorry, I confused the TTLG users then. I'm about 2/3 of the first mission of this campaign. It's great, fantastic level design. Difficulty is nice, not too hard. Haven't encountered any bugs thus far, although the ability to roll back banners seem a bit glitchy. I guess you have to approach them from a specific angle (to the right of the banner). Overall, really impressive. I have only ever played 2 or 3 Thief 2 fan missions, and, they weren't nearly on this level.

I can't say I like it But many missions seem to work fine with new optimizations. Even New Job, which I guess was the showcase of "architecture modules" (models everywhere instead of brushes), looks fine. Even if you set "disabled" as default, you will still have to playtest all the missions in order to enable it back where it works. The same seemingly impossible task. Except that getting a report for wrong lighting is very likely, while getting a report for a missed optimization opportunity is basically impossible.

@stgatilov I'm curious why this solution was chosen: "forceShadowBehindOpaque" "1" on an entity means it will always cast shadows from any light, even if it is fully behind wall/opaque brushes. "forceAllShadowsBehindOpaque" "1" on worldspawn causes all entities to get forceShadowBehindOpaque flag automatically. This requires all of the missions to be playtested to discover issues and then updated. A seemingly impossible task. Why not the following solution?: "enableShadowOptimizations" worldspawn This is something that DarkRadiant could add automatically to new missions. For existing missions that could benefit a lot from the optimizations, such as The Painter's Wife, Written in Stone, Iris, etc., they could be edited to include the optimization worldspawn.

Changelog of 2.12 development: release212 (rev 16989-10651) * Training Mission reverted to 2.11 state, except for text changes about new controls. beta212-07 (rev 16982-10651) * Fixed save/load of turrets. * Fixed some more cases of camera clipping during force-crouched mantle (6425). * Fixed crash if player wins twice in quick succession (6489). * Added angRotate script event. * Fixed church_altar prefab (6285). beta212-06 (rev 16970-10644) * Fixed light leaks workaround dropped after save + load (post). * Force doors which connect visportal to cast shadows regardless of light flow (post). * Improved candle vs junk detection for new frob controls (6316). * Fixed player getting stuck at start of "One Step Too Far" (post). * Fixed warning on spawning atdm:env_ragdoll_tdm_spider. * Fixed wrong skin in mechanical/switches/switch_rotate_lever prefab (6479). * Fixed double slash in lady02 subtitle decls (post). * Fixed rotated versions of safe03_wall prefab (6268). * Tweaked fogging of health potion. * Fixed overbright skins for nature bushes (6478). * Fixed Grandfather_clock_victorian_01 model (6383). * Removed pause from looping sound machinery/machines/m3_loop (6384). * Fixed broken func_portals in Training Mission (4352). * Minor improvements in Saint Lucia mission. * Doubled game scripts memory limit (post). * Improved normal map of long banners (6355). beta212-05 (rev 16950-10635) * Fixed player seeing through ceiling when mantling into crouched state (6425). * Improved how frobbing works on junk items (6316). * Toggled states of player movement are saved and restored properly (6458). * Fixed back image loading optimization. * Added canCloseDoors spawnarg on AI, which allows to block closing only (6460). * Rats and spiders are non-shoulderable by default (6456). * Increased wait in screenshot_viewpos macro command (6331). * Added forest models from The Valley abandoned mission. * Fixed frobstage on sign models (6457). * Added vine arrows to training mission (4352). * Improved Merry Chest prefabs (6459). * Fixed normal map of dirt_packed_muddy (4668). * Fixed nails in door_boarded_up01 model. * Fixed attachments of atdm:fireplace_place_base (6474). * Fixed editor image of blocks_large_sandstone, rough_grey_dirty_sepia_grey_trim (6281, 6464). * Added editor image for grey_dirty_trim material. * Adjusted tooltip for auto-search bodies. beta212-04 (rev 16932-10626) * Added massive package of subtitles for AI sounds (6240, thread). * Fixes in envshot command (5796). * Added nature/dirt/ash_and_coals texture (6441). beta212-03 (rev 16902-10623) * Improved subtitles layout and location ring picture (p1 p2). * Fixed broken remote render with soft stencil shadows. * Added color buffer clears to fix remote render breaking skybox (6424). * Fixed warning generated by remote render (6424). * Fixed min_lod_bias being ignored if no other LOD settings is specified (6359). * Now changing LOD settings effects objects with min_lod_bias immediately (6359). * Fixed text & background alignment in mission lists (6337). * Fixed gaps in chandelier models (6433). * Added missing editor texture for carpet/runners/ornate_red_black03_end (6435). * Further expansion of listRenderLightDefs and listLightEntityDefs commands. beta212-02 (rev 16889-10613) * Fixed underwater rendering due to missing doublevision shader (post). * Exclude more lights from the new light portal flow optimizations (5172, 6321). * black_matt is now fully black, no tiny green bias (post). * Fixed lockpick interruption when mouse cursor switches between door and handle. * Extended listRenderLightDefs and listLightEntityDefs commands. * Fixed church_altar.pfb (6285). * Added window01_curtains01.lwo in separate parts (6356). * tdm_open_doors now opens locked doors too. * Fixed rare case of getting NaN in spline mover. * Added r_skipEntities cvar, similar to "filter entities" in DR. * Added editor spawnargs for volumetric light properties (6322). * Fixed radius override and added position override for script-based stims. * Fixed warnings with wrong virtual function overrides. beta212-01 (rev 16879-10584) * Fixed player falling through elevator when shouldering a body (6259). * Rebalanced volume of all player footsteps (6348). * Fixed weird animation when mixing drawn bow and main menu (2758). * Fixed all kind of issues with bc_teatray material. * Added alternative frob controls mode tdm_holdfrob_drag_all_entities for dragging on hold. * Fixed non-actor entities always getting full splash damage. * Hide console before screenshot with screenshot_viewport command (6331). * Added tdm_subtitles_ring cvar to disable subtitles location ring. * Added mission.cfg as a temporary way for mission to override non-archived cvars (5453). * Cvars "pm_lean_*" are no longer archived (6320). * Removed some cvar overrides from atdm:player_base. * CFrobLock now supports script events: Lock, Unlock, ToggleLock, IsLocked, IsPickable (6329). * Simplified flee script event, supported fleeing from non-actor entity and fleeFromPoint. * Fixed crash on some non-standard cases of flinderize. * Can set spawnarg "douse 0" on damageDef to not extinguish lights from splash damage. * Added setFrobMaster script event. * Added script-based stim type, which triggers only when stimEmit script event is called. * Added on/off script events to func_emitter entity. * Added setSmoke script event to change particle decl for a func_smoke. * Added hasInvItem script event to check if player has some item. * Added launchGuided script event to start guided projectiles. * Added getInterceptTime script event for shooting projectile and running target. * Added "bounce_sound_min|max_velocity" spawnargs to control projectile bounce sounds. * Added "postbounce_*" spawnargs to change projectile properties after bounce. * Fixes to moor guard ragdoll (6345). * Fixed wench AI sounds (6284). * Added new experimental entityDef for an automatic turret. * Official missions no longer pretend to be part of 3-mission campaign (6338). * Removed AI PAIN messages console spam. * Removed excessive "s_volume 0" from base loot entityDefs (6346). * Replaced symbol on the proguard's belt. * Default value of com_maxfps increased from 144 to 300. * Improved idEntityPtr, fixed some warnings. dev16854-10518 * High mantle animation has become much faster (6343). * Crouching while on ladder/rope now causes player to slide instantly. * Added "forceShadowBehindOpaque" hack to workaround shadow leaks in old missions (5172). * Fixed and revised underwater "double vision" effect (6300). * Add scratch images have alpha = 1, which fixes some mirror materials (6300). * Added warning if material output color depends on input alpha, fixed it in core assets (6340). * Support several independent user addon scripts (6336). * Fixed missing headbob and footsteps at very high FPS (4696). * Fixed player hanging mid-air in a jump at very high FPS (6333). * Don't crash if player's head does not exist (6326). * Added "fade in fast" options for frobhelper (6342). * Removed "show tooltips" option, now it is always on (6344). * Added default spawnarg values to "text" debug entityDef (6325). * Fixed some uninitialized values, float overflows and NaNs across the code. * Reorganized covered furniture models from Seeking Lady Leicester (6289). dev16842-10488 * Major changes in frob/use controls: holding frob does different thing now (6316, thread). * Fixed some electric lights not spawning. * It is no longer necessary to specify extension to reference PNG image. * Added cvar tdm_show_viewpos and command screenshot_viewpos (6331). * Fixed hanging when light is moved through a plane with many visportals (3815, thread). * Fixed multipage readables stuck on empty page, improved page flipping (6313). * Fixed WAV sounds playing in main menu, all sounds are streaming now (6330). * Fixed light leaks along scissor rectangle boundary with soft stencil shadows (thread). * Better subtitles location visualization (6264). * Changed position of subtitle blocks and subtitle font (6264). * Internal refactoring of idImage class (6300). * Fixed rare bug in renderworld raycasting... might happen with particle collisions. * Fixed warnings in newspaper_bridgeport0X core readable GUI (6245). * Added vec4 GUI keyword (6164). * Renamed pm_lean_toggle cvar to tdm_toggle_lean. * Improved "head bob" and "mantle roll" settings in main menu. * Updated FFmpeg to 4.4.4 (6314). Known issues: * Various problems after image refactoring: underwater, mirrors, etc. dev16829-10455 * Allowed to mantle while carrying/manipulating an object (5892, thread). * Allowed to change weapon while mantling or on rope/ladder (6319). * Several leaning improvements (6320, thread). * Parallel shadow-casting lights are deprecated, use parallelSky instead (6306). * Added many menu settings for autoloot body, blackjack helper, and other (6311). * Deleted option for autolooting bodies with one item per frob, added menu setting (6257). * Added cvar to modify all head bobbing settings (6310). * Fixed some corner cases with multiloot (6270). * Fixed frob helper's "always visible" mode (6318). * New&fixed versions of atdm:lamp_electric_square_3_lit_unattached (6315). * Fixed UV map on Stove models (6312). * Reworked r_showPrimitives + deleted code for rendering from CPU buffers. * Shortened name of end-mission autosaves (6294). * Consistent names of various arrows. Known issues: * Some electric lights don't spawn. dev16818-10434 * Fixed projectiles flying through player and enemies sometimes (6292). * Lights with noshadows spawnarg pass through walls again (5172). * Disabled portal flow culling optimization for parallel lights (5172, 6306). * Faster light-entity interactions matching if light is noshadows due to spawnarg (6296). * Compression of images to DXT1/3/5 is done in software (6300). * Cleaned up rounding math routines (6300). * r_showportals 2 is easier to understand now * Changed rules for getting start areas of parallelSky light (6306). dev16814-10408 * Optimized portal flow culling for shadowing lights (5172). * Extended dmap diagnostics to info_portalSettings, improved editor descriptions (6224). * Added test commands: tdm_open_doors and tdm_close_doors. * Minor adjustments to ear-cutting algorithm in dmap. * Minor refactoring in image compression code (6300). dev16809-10394 * r_shadowMapSinglePass is enabled by default now. * Fixed lack of shadows in volumetric lights under r_shadowMapSinglePass (6271). * Fixed interaction rendering on materials with polygonOffset (5868). * Optimized code for finding light-entity interactions on large maps (6296). * Optimized moving shadowing lights: don't create interactions in unreachable areas (5172). * More refactoring in backend: tonemap shader (6271). * Added more covered furniture models (6289). * Added wall models from Seeking Lady Leicester (6293). Known issues: * Some noshadows lights no longer pass through walls. dev16801-10370 * Supported -durationExtend for inline subtitles (6262). * Added blue noise dithering to tonemap shader, which fixed color banding of fog (6271). * Optimized away unnecessary render copy under "useNewRenderPasses 1" (6271). * Refactored blend and fog lights into new backend architecture. For troubleshooting, reduce cvar useNewRenderPasses to 1 or 0 (6271). * Added 30 case to max FPS selection in settings menu. dev16792-10357 * Fixed particles bound to animated joints (6099). * idVec3 is no longer initialized to zero by default (6280). * Integrated Address Sanitizer tool and fixed a few found bugs (6280). dev16789-10349 * Deleted old backend completely + some cleaning (6271). * Fixed map icon wrong name (thread). * Now light entities support noPortalFog spawnarg (6282). * Support fonts aspect ratio correction (6283). * Fixed playerstart customization (thread). * Refactored "render pass" part into new backend architecture. For troubleshooting, try cvar "useNewRenderPasses 0". Also "textures/particles/blacksmokepuff" now works (6271) * Now arithmetic expressions in materials support min/max functions (6271). * Minor initialization cleanup (6280). dev16785-10319 * "r_shadowMapSinglePass 1" now respects noselfshadows flag (6271). * Continued refactoring in shadow maps and render-pass shaders (6271). dev16783-10307 * Backported new rendering backend to uniforms, should work like the old one now (6271). * "Auto" lockpicking difficulty now unlocks pin from after one cycle (6256). * Added "auto-search bodies" feature under tdm_autosearch_bodies cvar (6257). * Added r_shadowMapAlphaTested cvar for single-pass shadow maps (6271). dev16781-10289 * Added first version of direction and volume cues to subtitles (6264). * Allow subtitles to extend duration of sound sample (6262). * Improved slot allocation algorithm for subtitles, a subtitle no longer changes slot (6264). * Fixed bug that stereo sample plays for 2x duration due to length confusion. * Upgraded libpng and rebuilt third-party packages. * Internal fixes of depth bounds test asserts. dev16778-10275 * Allow limited mantling with a shouldered body (5892). * Fixed toggle creep and improved settings layout in the menu (6242). * Fixed bounding boxes of animated entities and particles, enabled r_useEntityScissors by default (6099). * Trigger call_on_exit before call_on_entry when switching locations. * Don't expand bounds of surfaces with turbulent deform (5990). * Removed "gui" spawnarg on GUI message to avoid first frame (6117). Known issues: * Particles bounds to animated joints broken. Changelog of earlier versions can be found here.

GAMEPLAY * Frob controls have been reworked completely. Previously players were annoyed by having to do three presses to extinguish a light. Also, some player didn't even know that bodies could be shouldered and were limited with dragging bodies. Now simply clicking the frob button performs the action player needs most of the time, and pressing-and-holding the same button performs alternative actions like dragging bodies and extinguishing candles (thread). * Several aspects of mantling has been improved: overhead mantling has become faster, mantling over low obstacles is allowed while carrying an item or a body. Also it is possible to switch weapon while being on rope/ladder or mantling. Pressing crouch button on rope/ladder now starts slide-down immediately. * Some aspects of gameplay can be further simplified. Auto-search bodies is for players who don't want to waste time searching for keys and purses on guard bodies. Lockpicking "Auto" difficulty now indeed trivializes lockpicking (thread). * Leaning animation has been improved with lower head tilt (thread). * Player footstep sounds have been rebalanced. Metal and water sounds were especially painful previously. * Further improvements of subtitles: revised location and font to avoid overlapping with other GUI elements, added directional cue, better slot allocation. Each subtitle is now displayed for at least one second even if the sound is very short. * More settings to reduce camera bobbing/rolling/shaking, which is good for players who feel motion sickness from default camera animations. * Now several script addons can coexist and work independently (thread). ENGINE * Optimized generation of light-entity interactions in rendering frontend. Also greatly optimized shadow processing, especially for moving lights. Unfortunately, many existing missions are not compatible with these changes, so you might see light leaking through walls (mainly with stencil shadows). Please report all such cases, we'll apply workaround on case by case basis (thread). * The "old" and "new" rendering backends are finally merged into one. It is as nice to program as the new backend, and as old-fashioned and reliable as the old backend. Single-pass shadow maps enabled by default and now respect noselfshadow. * Materials with polygonoffset now interact with lights. So static decals can have bumpmap and specular lighting. Note however: dynamic decals still don't interact with lights. * Revised parallelSky lights and marked shadowing parallel lights as deprecated (thread). * PNG image format now behaves equally to other supported formats. In particular, it is not required to explicitly specify its extension, and it can be referenced directly in GUI code. * Added functions min/max to material expressions, which can be useful for clamping. * Fixed minor culling bugs on animated entities and enabled entity scissors by default. * Reduced color banding for fog with some dithering at tonemapping stage. * Finally our C++ code can compress and decompress all texture formats we use, meaning that we no longer depend on occasionally buggy/slow vendor implementations. BUGS * Now both OGG and WAV sounds work the same way and stop playing while in main menu. * Fixed "gui::startSelect" as a feature that allows to choose player starting location in GUI briefing. * Fixed warnings in newspaper_bridgeport0X core readable GUI. ASSETS * Added automatic turrets, to be combined with security cameras (Thread). * Added more covered furniture models (6289). * Added wall models from Seeking Lady Leicester (6293). * New and fixed versions of atdm:lamp_electric_square_3_lit_unattached (6315). * Fixed UV map on Stove models (6312). * Fixed some issues with moor AI (6345).

TDM 2.12 is ready for beta test This is how to get beta versions: Upgrade from any version (fast): 1 - Start tdm_installer in darkmod folder. 2 - On the first screen, check "Get custom version" and click "Next". Choose the first name in beta/2.12 list, should look like "beta212-NN". 3 - Click on "Refresh" button to ensure that it is not going to download too much stuff. 4 - Continue installing with "Next". Fresh install (slow): 1 - Create darkmod folder anywhere you like. 2 - Download the TDM Installer from downloads section of the website. Extract tdm_installer executable from the downloaded ZIP and place it into your darkmod folder. 3 - Start tdm_installer (in case of Linux, first edit file permissions to allow executing it). 4 - On the first screen, check "Get custom version" and click "Next". Choose the first name in beta/2.12 list, should look like "beta212-NN". 5 - Continue installing with "Next". In general, upgrade is recommended over fresh install. If you don't want to lose your current TDM installation, then you can copy the whole TDM directory and upgrade the copy. This way you can have both 2.12 beta and 2.11 at the same time. At the end of installation, tdm_installer resets your config by renaming darkmod.cfg to darkmod_{datatime}.cfg. This is a recommended procedure on upgrade, otherwise you are likely to have issues due to old config. If you need your old config for some reason, you can always find it in darkmod folder. 32-bit builds of TDM are deprecated, so they are not present in beta versions. They will be added at the very end of beta phase. Notes 1 - Please try to be specific when reporting a problem. What you were doing, where you were when the problem occurred, can you reproduce it, etc. This wiki article provides many suggestions for good bug reports. 2 - Make sure to check every mission for update just before playing it. We expect to apply small tweaks to missions during this beta phase. 3 - This effort is to find out if we broke anything in TDM with our 2.12 changes, if a new 2.12 feature isn't working correctly. We won't be trying to fix bugs that have been around for a long time. Instead, we will create an issue in bugtracker (if not yet present), to fix it after beta. 4 - If you find something wrong, it would be helpful if you report whether the issue happens in 2.11 too. By the way, you can easily get 2.11 version: just copy your darkmod folder and run tdm_installer on the copy, selecting "release211" on the custom version screen. Thank you for testing !

To be honest, perhaps it's better to make a wiki page for this kind of issues. Most of the authors probably won't fix the missions themselves.

Our friend Skacky ( and his team "Feuillade Industries" ) has released a full sized Thief expansion \ campaign "The Black Parade": https://www.moddb.com/mods/thief-the-black-parade t is finally here! After 7-ish years of development, The Black Parade is finally released. So, what awaits you in this campaign? - 10 huge, open-ended and meticulously crafted missions with varied themes packed with content. - A brand new protagonist thrown into a dark, intricately woven story of crime and conspiracies. - 4 new tools happily supplied by the undermarket, at a price. - Many tweaks to the AI to make the game a bit more challenging but still fair. - A brand new "banter" system where AIs greet each other during their rounds and nightly life. - 28 voiced characters totaling roughly 1,800 new lines of dialogue. - 30 minutes of gorgeous hand-drawn briefings and cutscenes. - Brand new AI motions making the denizens of The City look more alive. - Full English subtitles. In The Black Parade you play the character of Hume, a hardened criminal who was sent into exile as a punishment for his crimes. The year is 833, you are now back in The City, a sprawling metropolis of soot-caked brick, greasy fumes and noisy machinery, with many a sinister conspiracy whispered behind closed doors. Lost and without a penny to your name, you are back to your life of thievery and must find your old associate Dahlquist. Shadows and silence are your allies. Light is your enemy. Stealth and cunning are your tools. And the riches of others are yours for the taking. The Black Parade aims at being a love letter to Thief: The Dark Project, and we hope we succeeded! It is recommended to have played through Thief: The Dark Project and/or Thief 2: The Metal Age at least once beforehand, since these missions are overall tougher than the base game. The Black Parade also comes with a few tweaks to the classic Thief gameplay formula: - Hume is not a Keeper and thus never received Garrett’s training: AIs will now notice you if they bump into you or vice versa, sometimes even in a perfect shadow. Be careful! - Hume can move banners aside instead of having to slash them. - Hume has additional footstep sounds for chains and pipes; these are metal sounds that aren’t as noisy as regular metal (about as noisy as stone/wood). - Water arrows can now be used to expand moss patches. - Servants will re-light extinguished torches on higher difficulty levels. - Servants may clean moss on the floor if they notice it on higher difficulty levels. - Zombies now smash wooden doors open instead of simply opening them. - Electric lanterns carried by guards can be turned off. - A few guards in the campaign are outfitted with heavy armor and helms so they cannot be knocked out using the Blackjack. - Hume can pick up small creature corpses such as spiders or sweels. DOWNLOAD (912 MB) MIRROR 1 MIRROR 2 Here is a very handy guide by nicked on how to set up Thief Gold for Fan Missions. !!!IMPORTANT NOTES!!! The Black Parade requires NewDark 1.26 or above! Make sure you use the latest version of TFix/TFix Lite before playing! The Black Parade should be launched with FMSel, NewDarkLoader or AngelLoader. It is not recommended to launch this campaign with DarkLoader or GarrettLoader. Note that mods such as Thief Gold HD Mod, NecroAge or Enhancement Pack are not compatible with this campaign. Remember that this is a campaign for THIEF GOLD, not Thief 2! Known issues: - Due to the complexity of the missions, there can be cases where some NPCs might get stuck walking against walls. There is unfortunately not much that can be done about this. Happy 25th anniversary to Thief: The Dark Project, and have fun taffers!

Maybe usefull or future TDM Missions, launched today Create Sound Effects in an Instant with Video or Game using AI for free https://www.waanda.org

I guess the easiest solution would be to let the save restriction be the only difference between expert and hard. Just to be clear, the modifiers/mutators I have in mind would apply to all missions for people that seek an extra challenge. In other words, they would not be controlled by the FM author. So this is probably not suitable for your specific problem.

Yeah. Maybe I'll update the mission someday if we ever get something like a "mission modifiers" feature. I have some ideas of how I could do it the non-fancy way with items or something. I don't know, but Volta missions will not have this feature

Well you are in luck! Here is a list of other missions with normal save options : https://www.thedarkmod.com/missions/ *** Also for people who want to play this mission and are getting discouraged by the restriction, its only on Expert. I wish there was a way to make it a check box option, but I couldn't find a solution with the time I had. @STiFUI like all your suggestions. A modifier would be a really cool solve for this problem.

Black Parade is released ! https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152429

The impacted missions have not been edited yet. If you wish to assist further, set con_noPrint 0 and getviewpos 1 then capture screens and post them to the authors mission thread.

Just to remind anybody that this is one of the best FM's out there (though I haven't played all available missions yet). I couldn't find a link to a "Best Fan Mission" thread or a web page anywhere ranking missions, so I'm left with congratulating the author here. So many thanks to Gelo "Moonbo" Fleisher for their mission.

Its not that people are dismissing the game because of lack of shouldering, but rather a combination of things. That would be a real argument that the following occurs; 1. People don't know how to keep from making noise when moving stuff around (holding creep). 2. People don't know when black jacking works and when it doesn't (general options menu toggle). 3. Blackjack hits overhead stone overhead archway or wooden foundation (was fixed). 4. Picking up a blackjacked guard should be easy and players should know how to do it right away (new). 5. Not know how to extinguish candles and lanterns (easier and new). 6. Not knowing about general gameplay tips specific to missions (new). 7. Not being able to use favorite addons together (new). 8. Being able to know how much loot is left in a mission and mission stats like stealth score mid mission to properly ghost w/o too much spent on replaying parts of a mission (pending and in a addon). 9. Guards either searching for the noise disturbance for too long, or giving up too quickly and thus making some small missions either really tough for small mistakes or far too easy to get through (difficulty changes proposed by some). Many of these are not fixable without a global tip system for first time players, a expanded tutorial mission, and quality of life changes (a general gameplay change is not always about accessibility, options and cvars exist for that reason, but sometimes its about making it so that a button press should do what most players intentions aim to do, 95% of the time.

Body awareness please. https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/20013-are-you-gonna-add-this/

If the "mission fails as soon as stealth score turns non-zero," that would not be good for ghost players. They might need to find out "how" they failed and experiment to avoid alerting guards. They might need to take those score points as a "bust". They might need to take those score points to complete an objective. Then, mission authors would need to encode exceptions into their missions, which would be a lot of work (if they decide to do it at all). However, part of what makes ghosting challenging and fun is when mission authors do not create their missions with ghosting in mind. Please see: Official Ghosting Rules: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148523 Writing code for these rules would be a huge undertaking. Ghost Rules Discussion: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148487 Creating an official mode could alienate these dedicated ghost players, because it would clash with what is considered ghosting in the community. Including the Stealth Stat Tool mod in the official release would be more useful. Or, making the audible alert states of guards quick and easy to recognize could help as well. For these reasons, I don't agree with an official "Ghost" mode. If the dev team were to do it, we should consult with @Klatremus so we get it 100% correct or not pursue it at all. (This ghosting bit should probably be in its own thread.)

I loved it. Awesome game. I faceplanted at the people who asked for quest markers in the Steam forums there... Herr, lass Hirn regnen. The game is so great, and so true to the original, because it doesn't hold your hand. When is the new breed of gamers gonna learn.

So, I've got a confession to make: Up until recently, I hadn't really played a full FM in quite some time as I only did the occasional playtesting. I am currently trying to catch up and boy did I miss some gems! This FM is one of them and easily one of my all-time favorites. The save-system on expert combined with the incredible athmosphere of your mission created a tension I haven't felt in a Thief-style game in a long, long time. Thank you, thank you, thank you and bravo @kingsal. TDM and its mappers have really come a long way, competing high up there with commercial productions. Your FM inspired me in two ways: At one point, I died due to my character not jumping off a slope, eventhough I felt like I pressed jump at the right time. I think everybody of us knows this issue and you always have this kind of in the back of your head that you don't jump when the ground is not perfectly even. This failed jump was of course very annoying due to the saving constraints, so I instantly started thinking how we could solve this. There's a technique known primarily from platformers but also from FPS like Doom Eternal, and that technique is called "Coyote Time". It allows the player to jump for some short timespan after leaving a platform. We should maybe explore something similar for TDM, to make jumping off slopes more reliable. We have to be careful to not allow the player to cross further distances this way of course. I loved the save restriction and the tension it create so much, that I want more of it. I started to brainstorm and remembered the optional game mutators from Unreal back in the day. These mutators allowed you to enable extra challenges or modified physics etc. for your game. Coming back to the save restriction, a respective mutator for TDM could be that each savegame costs some resource. Some resource that hurts, like a water arrow or a health potion, to make the player think twice about saving. A mutator like that would honestly be my default play-setting, I think. Other obvious mutators could be "Ghost" (missions fails as soon as the stealth score is non-zero and blackjacking is disabled), "Ironman" (no saves), "Strong Enemies" (enemies hit harder, have more health). I shall follow up on both of these points soon.

Congratuliations on the release and what incredible quality for a first-timer. The story was really neat and felt very authentic. Gameplay-wise, I also had a lot of fun, although it got really messy at times. You see, I like to play with the rule to only reload when I am dead, so I am forced to play through my mistakes, which can be really fun. A mistake in this mission often meant, that almost all the guards got alerted because a huge portion of the mansion is connected without any doors. And with so many guards, trouble often snowballed, which made this mission pretty difficult. So many guards in one spot also very frequently lead to AI misbehavior like continuously running into a wall etc. For your future missions (hoping there weill be more), I would suggest to split up areas more so that not so many guards come flocking on you on a single mistake.

You got me shocked for a second, as I had switched in the past years from the official TDM mission download page to thiefguild as I find it easier to get a chronological overview of new missions there and checking them before the download (Screenshots, ratings, discussions all in one place) Really like this place. There's some issues on mobile (especially the screenshot light box is designed badly for mobile) but the functionality and growing user base is great overall. Plus the host is a really nice guy!

Thanks for this beautiful new Mission it seems you had put a lot of effort into the design , especially the wilderness (the way you`ve forbidden to climb Trees and Rocks / exept 1) and - ooohkay - you´ve forbidden to go swimming ! so to visit the little island was only by NoClip and thankfully Finch´s Guard moves time to time . It`s cause I`m trying to "Supreme Ghost" so i didn`t picked up any Key , but was unable to leave his Room by the Door and here´s my Question (-s) ? : is killing the Spider a break of Rules (BlackJacking my girl is Mission-Fail) and second : when the 2Guys in the Cellar get angry when they discover they´ve been bestolen ?!? It´s a scripted behaviour (when you(me) bring back the Light . They distroyed the Table Candle themself ! nowadays it´s more logical they react to it (in older Missions it had been possible to steal without reactions) One little mark i must say : A Secret should be an Addition to the mission - not a Part of it !!! but that´s realy just a little personal opinion ThX´s to YOU ---- I enjoy to wait for your next one !!!!

A couple more: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21739-resolved-allow-mantling-while-carrying-a-body/ https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22211-feature-proposal-new-lean-for-tdm-212/ https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22198-feature-proposal-frob-to-use-world-item/ https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22249-212-auto-search-bodies/

Unless I am missing something the only really difference in this table vs the current implementation would be inverting the shoulder/grabber behavior for bodies (I guess it also removes the fall back on long press to do the default action on things like junk - not sure if it is actually preferable for some reason to just do nothing in these cases). Switching the body interaction to shoulder on frob is one of the foundational elements of this change and judging by the polling information is supported by a majority of players. The reasons for this change are well articulated in this thread, but the short version is that this has been confusing new players for years who actually think there is no shouldering mechanic in the game at all. The first thing the game shows them is fine manipulation of bodies via the dragging mechanic, and they must learn to use an unfamiliar key combination to actually carry one. This is only described in a easy to miss readable in the training mission. I am myself only learned of this mechanic after playing several missions and by accident. You can read accounts of players literally giving on the game elsewhere in this thread. I imagine they would potentially support this change as well. Which is the more common action a player must undertake in the game - shouldering a body or manipulating limbs and slowly dragging it around? So if that is the only element of the implementation which is “inconsistent” (again I don’t think this is actually important - shouldering is the primary interaction with bodies in almost every other similar game and this confuses no one) then I think it’s a pretty small tradeoff for a pretty big pay off.