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Thank you for a great puzzle fm! I'm having real trouble with the TDM v 2.10-64bit on Linux Mint 21.1 Link to the guide supplied by V-Man339 https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/15844-fan-mission-the-gatehouse-by-bikerdude-goldchocobo-updated-02112014/page/7/#comment-429405

I agree. I'm copying this idea over to the https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21741-subtitles-possibilities-beyond-211/ thread. Related: I'll probably do some more experiments with the current TDM font & size, to understand max char count versus field width.

Greetings, after completing nearly all the FMs, I finally started building my own. Fidcal's mapping tutorials and others have been really useful (thank you), but I have my first question (probably of many). I have a some bushes that I don't want the player to be able to climb on top of. I added the property "is_mantleable 0", but this made no difference. I also tried "allowStep 0", but no dice. I guess I could put a clip brush around it, just wondering if there was another way.

Edit: This mission has been updated to fix this. Thanks @nbohr1more! Yes, see the following post. Use a ZIP utility to extract the def/tdm_shopitems.def file from tdm_defs01.pk4. Copy that file to darkmod/fms/fever_<verson>/def/tdm_shopitems.def. Edit that file. Replace this line: "inv_icon" "guis/assets/game_maps/map_of" With this line: "inv_icon" "guis/assets/game_maps/map_of_icon.tga" Note: Because this is a def file, you'll need to restart the mission to see the changes. A saved game will have the previous def values.

Some years ago i succesfully downloaded the wiki with wget, for TDM dvd. I dont know if this method wikl work now. https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/19998-tdm-collection-dvd/#comment-437887

@datiswous, made that correction fm_test.subs --> fm_conversations.subs @stgatilov, about srt naming and file location, would you be OK with the following edit? New/changed stuff in italics: srt command is followed by paths to a sound sample and its .srt file, typically with matching filenames. An .srt file is usually placed either with its sound file or in a "subtitles" folder. The .srt file format is described e.g. [1]. The file must be in engine-native encoding (internationalization is not supported yet anyway) and have no BOM mark. It contains a sequence of text messages to show during the sound sample, each with start and end timestamps within the sample's timeline. It is recommended to use common software to create .srt files for sound samples, instead of writing them manually. This way is more flexible but more complicated, and it is only necessary for long sounds, for instance sound sample of a briefing video. It's a simple enough standard that it can be shown as an short example, demonstrating that subtitle segments can have time gaps between them. And the example can show correct TDM usage, without requiring a trip off-site and picking through features that TDM doesn't support. Specifically, the example shows how to define two lines by direct entry, rather than using unsupported message location tags (X1, Y1, etc.). And skips other unavailable SRT font markups like italics, mentioned in the wikipedia description. The example would also show the TDM-specific path treatment. The example could be inserted before the sentence "It is recommended to use common software...."

I guess the best image-to-normal conversions I've seen here in the forums are via njob. I am curious about this AI thing though: https://github.com/HugoTini/DeepBump has to be installed into Blender as a plugin?

DarkRadiant 3.8.0 is ready for download. What's new: Feature: Support new frob-related material keywords Improvement: Mission selection list in Game setup is not alphabetically sorted Improvement: Better distinction between inherited and regular spawnargs Improvement: Silence sound shader button Improvement: Add Reload Definitions button to Model Chooser Fixed: Model Selector widgets are cut off and flicker constantly on Linux Fixed: DarkRadiant will not start without Dark Mod plugins Fixed: GenericEntityNode not calculating the direction correctly with "editor_rotatable" Fixed: RenderableArrow not drawing the tip correctly for arbitrary rotations Fixed: Light Inspector crashes on Linux Fixed: Models glitch out when filtering then showing them Fixed: Skin Editor: models not centered well in preview Fixed: "Copy Resource Path" includes top level folders Fixed: Skin Editor: internal test skins are shown if Material Editor was open previously Fixed: Changing Game/Project doesn't update loaded assets correctly Fixed: Model Chooser: initially hidden materials aren't revealed when enabling them Fixed: Choosing AI entity class 'atdm:townsfolk_commoner_update' causes crash Fixed: Sporadic assertion failure on shutdown due to LocalBitmapArtProvider destruction Fixed: Prefab Selector spams infinite error dialogs on Linux Windows and Mac Downloads are available on Github: https://github.com/codereader/DarkRadiant/releases/tag/3.8.0 and of course linked from the website https://www.darkradiant.net Thanks to all the awesome people who keep using DarkRadiant to create Fan Missions - they are the main reason for me to keep going. Please report any bugs or feature requests here in these forums, following these guidelines: Bugs (including steps for reproduction) can go directly on the tracker. When unsure about a bug/issue, feel free to ask. If you run into a crash, please record a crashdump: Crashdump Instructions Feature requests should be suggested (and possibly discussed) here in these forums before they may be added to the tracker. The list of changes can be found on the our bugtracker changelog. Keep on mapping!

TTLG? That's Through the Looking Glass Forums. A looking glass fan community. Has been around for a long, long time. https://www.ttlg.com/forums/

I remember reading about Spar talking about the S/R system in the dev forum, which was interesting for me. (This would probably have been years after it all happened because I was a latecomer too, although IIRC he was still around then, but I was really absorbed with reading old threads anyway.) Unlike many of us, he'd never made FMs for Thief. So his knowledge of Thief's S/R system came from the reports of people that had come from Thief mapping, and he did his best to reproduce what they were saying. He was a bit worried about if it would meet mappers' expectations. But the system he made was pretty cool, and I think even a bit more intuitive than Thief's system. (They ended up not too far apart anyway.) But it made me think sometimes not knowing exactly what a thing is, but having a vision for it can be liberating... because you can follow the vision without being bound to the past. I guess that's not such a big insight into him. He had a thoughtful leadership style, and I guess no more or less human than any of us. The lesson I got from that story kind of stuck with me though.

No, not really, have only seen him on the forums many years ago. He deserves a lot of credit for providing the SVN infrastructure in the beginnings of the project, it's been only later when we transferred this to a hosted server. Memory is blurry, but I think my time working on TDM and his don't overlap that much - I had been getting more active, and he pulled back a bit. He bootstrapped quite a few important systems, IIRC he's been working on light gem and the first Stim/Response and Inventory implementations. From what I recall, he gave the project an organisational backbone in the technical department which is crucial to keep things together. Folks like Spring and NH who have joined long before me could give more insights, I guess. (Looking at my join date makes me feel old either way. From TDM's current view point, the year 2006 seems like right at the beginning, but actually the mod had already been existing for two years by that time I joined. With the first release in 2009, 2006 is rather in the middle. Heck, I haven't touched the mod code for at least 10 years - and I can still remember a few things, which is a testament of how much it occupied my thoughts back then).

@Daft MugiAlso just to be clear. Not being able to carry bodies up ropes and vines (ladders) will break the mission design Being able to mantle shorter walls and obstacles in cauldron would actually be a benefit to the design there

Hm. If encumbered rope climbing is not only in the game already but is used in some popular FMs, I may have to change my opinion. It doesn't make any sense for the player character to be able to climb around on a rope with a body slung on his shoulder, but not be able to jump or mantle at all while under the same burden. That's just silly. The rarity argument cuts both ways. A situation that hardly ever comes into play is unlikely to break many missions.

There are other complications though. How much fall damage should player take, if they decide to jump off a rope with the body? Should the player let go of the body or not? Also, right now it's much harder to jump off the rope with the body than without it. Why? And last but not least, how would you teach players these things, possibly without much hand-holding and text prompts explaining the rules? I guess I'm with @STiFUon this one, if you restrict dropping the body, you'll save yourself (and mappers) a lot of headaches. But even that doesn't solve all the problems, I know I'm in the minority in these forums, but as a player, I really appreciate the beauty and efficiency in simplicity of the design. Not overthinking everything and adding more and more rules for the sake of realism (or anything else).

"AI Speech Synthesis for FMs" by u/that1sluttycelebrity

It seems to me that suggestions like this should be judged on a case by case basis. Breaking older missions is a great detriment to the project and community, yes; but one can imagine scenarios where enabling new gameplay modes and new outlets for FM maker creativity might outweigh that consideration. Imagine if the mod had launched without dynamic lighting, or the ability to move objects, or to swing on ropes. Should those features be permanently off limits just because some missions were not designed with them in mind? I think not. The project needs to be able to grow and evolve in order to remain healthy. The problem with the mantling suggestion is that no one has made a cogent argument for why aping the Thief 1&2 system would be a major improvement over the status quo (other than that it conforms better to a few users' expectations). Carrying bodies across the thieves' highway is not a situation that comes up often. Hardly anyone is actively complaining about it (unlike the blackjacking situation), and the community isn't actively excited about exploring the limits of encumbered acrobatics more in future FMs. In fact I struggle to imagine how such a mission could be any fun at all. The preservationist argument has a lot more weight in this case because the proposed benefits of the change are so rare and marginal. Even if we can't specifically point to any mission that would be broken, the amount of work it would take to check would be prohibitive versus the limited utility of the suggestion, so I think the preservationist carry the day by default here. (Ideally this sort of argument should be hashed out well before people start coding.)

Subtitle capabilities available in 2.10/2.11 are described in the wiki "Subtitles". For info about one new project using these capabilities, see the thread "English Subtitles for AI Barks". That project includes development of a TDM subtitle style guide. The thread here is mainly focused on ideas that would require future engine changes to implement. A. Automatic Switching Between Subtitle Languages Based on Settings This is a follow-on of a forum discussion between datiswous and Geep. It is desirable to have a standardized method for: subtitles to be authored in multiple languages, and so packaged and distributed as part of TDM and its FMs a gamer to dynamically select subtitles in a desired language The subtitle language choice might be controlled by the existing TDM language choice within Settings, or a separate "Subtitles Language" setting. B. Other Possible Improvements Requiring Engine Changes Most of these involve allowing the subtitle code to know something about game entities, and convey that to the gamer. Examples of useful knowledge: the ID of the speaker (or other source) the location of the speaker, relative to the player, the player's view, and other speaking AI. This type of information helps to disambiguate when there are multiple voices present. There are lots of ways such info is visually conveyed in other subtitle/caption systems, and might be added to TDM. C. Providing Subtitles for Existing FX These would have the "verbosity effects" subtitle tag. Beyond 2.11 capabilities, some of the location aspects of (B) would be pertinent.

I think the reason the dev forums exist is to provide a place where the implementation of features can be discussed without getting mixed up with other debates when someone believes what the devs are doing is wrong. We often post public discussion threads for features with subjective elements like the frob outline, because community feedback is very important. But there will always be vocal defenders with strong views for or against certain features, or how exactly it should be implemented in their opinion. At some point a decision has to be made and be carried through, which is what the dev forums are for. Almost all of the threads are very technical, basically explaining and discussing recent or potential code changes with other devs. Its hard to say. Its a hobby the devs do in their spare time, so people come and go when they're in the mood and when they have the time. The team page is mostly accurate except for some relatively newer additions like myself.

This is basically "do include my work ASAP because I worked so hard, or else *sulk*". This is similar case: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21679-beta-testing-211/page/10/#comment-482352 This is neither a commercial product, nor a phishing email. That sense of rush and pressure is artificial. These releases typically do take long, and even then, there are often many things broken by mistake or omission. Often there aren't enough people to test stuff, or they're not competent enough, etc, etc. There's little point in hurry.

My own take on the beta process is that devs on one side commit to adding and improving features, but also to ensuring that the new releases are, as far as reasonably achievable, free of bugs and that the new features aren't broken on release. To balance that we have a general policy to freeze the code when the beta starts, where code changes should primarily be fixes to issues detected in the beta. Exceptions are made on a semi-regular basis for changes that go further if they can be justified. That's mainly the case when there's still enough time left in the beta to get the changes properly tested and reviewed, or the risk of breakage is low i.e. because you're adding, but not changing things. For example, I worked extensively on assets this release cycle and didn't manage to get all the work done before the beta, so I was still busy until about the middle of the beta phase. However, I prioritised my work so that asset changes were ready ahead of the beta, while asset additions (which won't break anything) were made during the beta. I also treaded particularly carefully when adding the new assets to compensate for their shorter beta testing time. I might not have been around as much lately, but I only heard of Daft Mugi's slew of patches when we were discussing whether the next beta build should be the release candidate, which gets released as-is if no significant issues are reported. At that point any changes will either prolong the beta testing phase, or carry the risk of not working as intended. The plan was to reach this point at the end of january (if this was not prominently communicated somewhere it was a mistake). Personally I definitely see the value in trying to accommodate as many of these changes as possible because they make TDM more attractive to Thief players, Daft Mugi is even standing ready to introduce them to the TTLG community, and it looks like they're fairly simple changes. However, prolonging the beta comes with its own drawbacks. One is that players and mappers are delayed in getting access to all the other new features. Another is that the beta phase is a relatively draining part of the release cycle for the devs because new projects are mostly on hold while the focus is on getting to a stable build. One of the ideas behind dev builds was to shorten the beta phase by spreading out the testing. Ultimately, we've designated Stgatilov as the project lead so it's his task to call the shots on how to balance these demands.

Ok, let me start by saying that TDM was never supposed to be a simple copy Thief 1/2 mechanics in a newer engine. It was always catered towards the more hardcore players, seeking a challenge. Do we really need to restrict mantling while shouldering at all? > Yes, because all the 100+ existing FMs were designed with the current ruleset. Changing the ruleset afterwards could alter or even break the vision an FM author had for their mission and that is something we explicitly want to protect because these authors sometimes put years of work into their missions. If we restrict the player while shouldering, what should the rules be? > It was argued that lifting a body over small ledges is already possible, by dropping the body and moving it around without shouldering. This is very cumbersome, however, so being able to mantle small ledges while shouldering would be a nice quality of life improvement. While shouldering, what's the tallest object that can be mantled? > Waist high. Height could be controlled by a cheat-cvar. While shouldering, should there be different object height requirements between crouched and standing? > Yes, crouched should be lower. It would create some additional tension to have to stand up to perform the mantling. While shouldering, can the player mantle during a fall or jump across to another ledge? > Player cannot jump while shouldering. Conversely, he should not be able to mantle while shouldering and falling. While shouldering, what mantle types are allowed out of: push, pushNonCrouch, pull, pullFast, hang? > Definitely not hang and anything pull. That is only triggered for big heights. While shouldering, it should probably play the usual viewport animation, but a bit slower.

Introduction A project is underway, led by Geep, to eventually provide English language subtitles (or if you prefer, "closed captions") for all the non-story phrases (e.g., barks) of the stock AI characters. The non-story phrases are identified by the "verbosity speech" subtitle tag. The hope is that these subtitles would be distributed as part of the future TDM 2.12 core and so available to all FMs, both old and new. Since there are 5-10K such phrases in total, this project will take a while. Let me know if you'd like to help. This forum thread can be used for project coordination, and to provide info about - What subtitle sets (e.g., for particular AI) are underway and completed Emerging tools or methods for bulk testing Style guidance for TDM subtitle authors. To support this project, a style guide will be developed as experience accumulates. While motivated by providing some consistency to English speech-tagged subtitles, it may be of some interest to FMers creating story-tagged subtitles, and those subtitling in other TDM-supported languages. Potential improvements to TDM's subtitling system - particularly those that would involve engine/GUI changes - can be discussed in this companion thread: Subtitles - Possibilities Beyond 2.11 Current Status - Subtitles for Barks All TDM vocal sets planned for TDM 2.12 have been delivered. New: Fixup Needed to Run These Under 2.12 Beta 3 The Thug - Update May 6, 2023 released as testSubtitlesThug2 FM. This takes advantage of new 2.12dev features and changes to style guidelines. The Lord - Update May 4, 2023 released as testSubtitlesLord2 FM The Wench - Two postponed April versions - Nov 25, 2023 released as testSubtitlesWenchOriginal and testSubtitlesWenchPatched FMs. Two versions because of Bugtracker 6284. IMPORTANT: See final version at end of this list, released Jan. 14, 2024. The Young Builder (Builder 4) - Update May 30, 2023 released (again) as testSubtitlesYoungBuilder FM. (Corrects error in briefing syntax of original May 17 release.) Average Jack - June 8, 2023 released as testSubtitlesJack FM. The Pro - June 23, 2023 released as testSubtitlesPro FM. The Maiden - July 8, 2023 released as testSubtitlesMaiden FM The Grumbler - July 24, 2023 released as testSubtitlesGrumbler FM The Mature Builder (Builder 3) - August 15, 2023, released as testSubtitlesMatureBuilder FM The Lady (aka Noblewoman) - Sept 9, 2023, released as testSubtitlesLady FM The Moor - Sept 14, 2023, released as testSubtitlesMoor FM The Commander - Sept 30, 2023, released as testSubtitlesCommander FM The Simpleton - Oct. 21, 2023, released as testSubtitlesSimpleton FM Builder 1 & 2 (shared vocal set) - Nov. 8, 2023, released as testSubtitlesBuilder1and2 FM The Critic - Nov. 25, 2023, released as testSubtitlesCritic_FM Manbeast - Dec. 10, 2023, released as testSubtitlesManbeast FM NEW! Lady02 - Dec 21, 2023, released as testSubtitlesLady02 FM. Assisted by datiswous. NEW! The Drunk - Jan 6, 2024, released as testSubtitlesDrunk FM. Assisted by MirceaKitsune. NEW! The Cynic - Jan. 13, 2024, released as testSubtitlesCynic FM. Incorporates early demo subtitles by Dragofer. NEW! The Wench, Final Revision - Jan. 14, 2024, released as testSubtitlesWenchFinal FM . Assisted by Dragofer. See also original May version (released in November) in the list above. All TDM vocal sets planned for TDM 2.12 have been delivered. Thanks, @nbohr1more, for integrating these into the release. All AI vocal sets, including additional ones for future consideration - perhaps as "verbosity effects" - are listed here. Current Status - Utilities buildSubtitleShader.exe - Latest release of April 10, 2023. This program fabricates a TDM sound shader file specifically for the testSubtitles... series of FMs used here. It does so by wrapping each sound file name in a directory into a sound shader with uniform incremental naming. While limited to a single directory, the latest release simplifies merging runs from multiple directories. @datiswous reports that this Windows console program also works under Linux/wine, where it is used with similar "testSubtitle..."-derived FMs for verbosity "story" subtitling. checkDurationsInSRT - May 6, 2023 Update (bug fix) This Win/console program scans a directory for .srt files, examines the subtitles, and warns about those phrases/messages that are potentially too short or too long in time, or that seem to require too high a reading rate, expressed in characters per second. It also looks for within-file subtitle messages that overlap in time. soundDurationsCSV.exe - March 7, 2023 Release This Windows console program scans a directory of sound files, reporting their names and (using pre-installed ffprobe) durations with millisecond resolution. The resulting .csv file can then be imported into a custom Excel spreadsheet for subtitle editing. For more, see also Feb 20th comments . findTooLongSubtitles.exe - Minor update, June 23, 2023 Release This Win/console program scans a directory for .subs and .srt files, checks the length in characters of each subtitle line, and reports those that exceed a specified maximum. analyzeFieldWidth of April 27, 2023 (release not scheduled; too idiosyncratic). Used to determine, for 12pt Carleton font, and a representative sampling of bark subtitles, how many characters might reasonably fit within a given gui field width. Later, parts of this code were used to build calcStringWidth.exe discussed next. calcStringWidth.exe - Oct. 11, 2023 Release. Calculates the display width of an input string, for 4 candidate subtitle fonts Carleton and Stone, uncompressed or 16:9 compressed. statsForSubtitles - June 25, 2023 Release. Starting with The Pro vocal set, this Windows console program automates the gathering and reporting of the basic statistics included with the announcement of every vocal set release in this forum thread. Current Status - Spreadsheets and Related Explanatory Documents, including Workflow and Templates Work by Geep on each vocal set starts with instantiation of a pre-configured Excel spreadsheet. This is used for subtitle editing and to do automatic calculations to help manage constraints and decision making. The announcement of each AI subtitle release here includes a link to the corresponding spreadsheet. At first, the spreadsheet's columns, formats, calculations, and highlighting (and its distillation into template form) would change quite a bit between each AI. As of June, 2023 and AverageJack, it has largely stabilized, and is now documented: June 10 Documents Explaining Workflow and Excel Spreadsheet/Template (for AverageJack) The v5 template was used for vocal sets from June's Average Jack to November's The Critic. Further clarifications are now available: Dec 7 Update of the "Explained" Doc for Spreadsheet Template v5 Subsequent vocal sets, through to 2024's The Cynic, use template v6: NEW! Jan. 10, 2024 "Explained" Doc for Spreadsheet Template v6 Current Status - Style Guide for Barks As of Sept 2, Subtitle Style Guide - Part 1 is now available. NEW! As of Jan 16, 2024: Subtitle Style Guide - Part 2 with more discussion and references. Current Status - Third-Party Tools For editing of "story" SRT files, datsiwous found "kdenlive" particularly helpful [to do: link to how-to below]. Geep has been working with the simpler, audio-only "Cadet" for barks.

I mean, yes, obviously there is an internal forum where decisions are made regarding how to move forward with the game. That's how things work. And not just in our team, everywhere. Or do you see Apple discuss their business plans and new "innovations" in public? That being said, the team values all well though out ideas, feedback and suggestions, but even if everyone agrees that a certain feature would be nice to have, it doesn't automatically mean that it's going to happen, because there has to be a dev willing to do the work. You have to remember that we are all doing this for free on our free time. Every dev picks the task they are interested in the most. And that's precisely the reason why these excruciatingly long beta phases are so annoying: they prevent you from doing the stuff you really want to do. TDM is open-source and you can do with it whatever you like, but for something to be integrated officially into the game, the team has to agree on that. If you want to see a feature happen, implement it yourself and send in the patch, like Daft Mugi does. But be warned: Not everything listed in the bug tracker is a feature that has been fully agreed upon. It is always a safe bet to ask first, before doing the work. If you patch is not integrated into the core mod, you are of course free to offer it as a mod for TDM. Regarding the internal decision making process. It is rarely about personal preference, but more about: Is it in line with the existing vision / look & feel of TDM? Could it break anything? Number 2 especially applies to breaking FMs, which is a no-go because of the enormeous work mappers have put into their FMs.

@Frost_Salamander By releasing it as a .pk4 for mappers to include it in their FMs players might have it in a handful of missions in an uncertain future. By including it in a ready-pack players can use it right away in all missions. It will be part of the TDM Modpack, and it will be maintained and evolve there. Regardless, mappers and modders can extract the relevant files and do whatever they please without hesitation. No need to ask nor credit. Furthermore, I remain available to assist if required.

Will this be a part of a modpack or a .pk4 that mappers can include in their FMs?