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I probably shouldn't have watched this. I imagined Stephen Russell a bit different. In my imagination he looked more closely to Neil Gaiman. Game seems a bit too simplistic from the footage. I don't see much stealth gameplay and the graphics look bad.

Mandrasola is a small sized map in which aspiring thief Thomas Porter steals some herbal products from a smuggler. The mission was created by me, Sotha and I wish to thank Bikerdude, BrokenArts and Ocn for playtesting and voice acting. Thanks goes naturally to everyone contributing and making TDM possible. This mission occurs chronologically before the Knighton's Manor, making it the first mission in the Thomas Porter series. Events in chronological order are: Mandrasola, The Knighton's Manor, The Beleaguered Fence, The Glenham Tower and The Transaction. The winter came early and suddenly this year. Weeks of strong blizzards and extremely harsh cold weather hit Bridgeport hard. With the seas completely frozen, a rare occurence indeed, most of the City harbor commerce has stopped completely. Vessels are stuck in the ice and no ship can leave or enter the City, resulting in the availability imported goods declining and their prices skyrocketing. One of these imported items is Mandrasola, a rare herbal product, which is imported overseas from the far southern continents. Mandrasola has its uses in alchemical cures and poisons, but mostly this substance is used for its narcotic qualities by commoners and even the nobility. The problem with Mandrasola is that excessive use is extremely addicting and the withdrawal effects are most grievious. Many are utterly incapable of stopping using Mandrasola and are transformed into quivering human ruins if they do no get their daily dose. And now this expensive and rare substance is running out from the whole City. Me and my fence, Lark Butternose, would love to grab this monopoly to ourselves: selling the last few doses in the City would probably be worth a fortune. According to Lark's sources, there remains only one smuggling lord who still has Mandrasola in stock. The problem is that this individual maintains an exclusive clandestine operation and only supplies a few nobles. Despite our best information gathering efforts we couldn't learn who the smuggler is and where he or she operates. Luckily we have an alternate plan. While searching for Mandrasola related information, we learned that a noblewoman called Lady Ludmilla is addicted to the substance and has paid high prices for small amounts of it. We also know that she has visited frequently someone in the Tanner's Ward waterfront, and since she goes to the area personally we believe she is visiting the smuggler. The plan is simple: I must monitor Ludmilla's most likely entryway to the Waterfront and then follow her to the smugglers hideout. I'd better be very careful around Ludmilla. She must not realise I'm following her or she probably won't lead me to her dealer. Hurting her is also out of the question. After she leads me to the smuggler's hideout, I can take my time to break in carefully and steal all the Mandrasola I can find. While I'm there it wouldn't be a bad idea to grab some loose valuables as well. I've now waited in the blistering cold for a few hours already. Looks like there are a few city watch patrols in the area to complicate matters... I think I heard a womans voice beyond the north gate. That must be lady Ludmilla, I haven't seen many ladies in these parts. I'd better get ready.. Links: Use the ingame downloader to get it. WARNING! Someone always fails to use spoiler tags. I do not recommend reading any further until you've played the mission.

Sorry, you were asking for Thief mods in which case AngelLoader does support mods. I don't know if a Stealth Monitor exists for Thief 1 or 2.

In the first post of the other topic Geep proposed: Then Stgatilov's answer: But I think applying subtitles in different languages shouldn't be too hard I would think, but I don't know how the current translation system works. The engine should apply the correct subtitles based on the applied language setting, this doesn't need a whole new language system I think. Not sure who's going to write those subtitles though. I can only do Dutch and English and nobody needs Dutch I think. I suggest further discussion of this to take place in topic https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21741-subtitles-possibilities-beyond-211/

Deleted 5 disappointing unfinished games last night that I'd downloaded recently, and that's not counting Last of Us 2. That at least had a lot of good things enough to make it playable to the (unsatisfying) end. Most recent was A Plague Tale: Innocence. Now this has a huge amount of stealth but it's a third-person, rigid corridor world, albeit with great medieval graphics - probably the best graphics I've seen. Dark Mod would be brilliant with this engine and resources. But spoilt by zero game saves except the single auto save inventory and last checkpoint, endless replaying of frustrating puzzles (which would have been brilliant with a little optional info and hinting when needed) resulting in me having to play several utube walkthroughs else I could not continue. (Can't help thinking there should be a law about games that are unfinishable without outside help (sometimes unfinishable for many of us even with help, see following.) So yes, the ultimate killer for me was occasional forced combat but especially big boss fights: You play a 'weak' teen girl hampered by having to help her sick little brother along. Now this appealed to me because I played Fallout 4 over TWO YEARS to all 4 endings on difficult setting. Yes, it's 1st/3rd person switchable! Discovered the most fun was before you got loads of armour, power weapons, when it was far more edgy, so played on Survival level. Finished that then started again, designed a 'weak' teen pampered girl who wouldn't wear any armour because none of it was 'fashionable' and she refused to murder humans (yes, it is just about possible to finish the entire game that way, and if anyone wants details, post here. You need some imagination to immerse in your own personal fiction) Then I played it again as this teen but with NO companion to help and NO perks. So imagine my delight when I read about 'Plague' with loads of stealth and a weak girl protagonist. But back to the boss fights. Your only weapon is a slingshot your dad taught you an hour ago! Later (feels like almost the same day) you fight a big brute of a guy in heavy steel armour, in a confined space. I ran around trying to find a way out, then reluctantly tried my sling but my little stones just bounced off his armour (surprising that.) Oh, yeah, by the way, he has only five sentences he repeats endlessly during the 50 or 100 replays I had to endure before killing him. Anyway, I had to go on utube to see you had to hit key points on his armour until parts fall off and finally his helmet. Maybe that's a common trope in games? But last night, captured by the English army and trying to escape, I had endless frustrating tries (really good tough stealth though) before reaching the gate without killing anyone. But then there's a staged (everything is bloody staged) combat with 5 enemy rushing at you. I managed to kill two before being over-run again. And again. And... after 5 times I exited in disgust and wiped the game. If you don't mind occasional tough combat mixed in with good stealth then I recommend Plague even though it is third person. (might be a first person mod on PC?) The newer Hitman 2 I mentioned elsewhere was spoilt by third person. Abandoned during the tutorial. Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice has 3rd person stealth but I wasn't enjoying the forced combat, third person, and silly jumps instead of genuine climbing. The Outer Worlds has some first person stealth but had no immersive character/story for me so I soon found I didn't really care what happened. Endless weak humour trivialises everything you do. Zero tension. I couldn't get excited about finding spare parts for my vacuum cleaner bot. Far Cry 5 was the most playable, stealth and huge 1st-person open world and whatever combat you want/don't want. But about 15 times during the game you magically get a dart in your leg, are captured and have to endure staged frustrating corridor taunting torture events (this literally feels like Ubisoft torturing the player.) Plus, I read you can't really ultimately 'win' in any satisfying way at all (worse than LOU2.) The best I could do was start again, complete the small island tutorial, then set yourself as a rebel. Fuck the Cult, fuck Dutch, and fuck Ubisoft. Play as a rebel opportunist thief who's daddy got him the job of sheriff's deputy. Don't play Ubisoft's game. Refuse to be their hero. As a looter/thief you seize the lawless opportunity to make a fortune (I aimed for $100,000) then make your 'imaginary' ending by 'escaping' the inescapable valley. You can run up the hill behind the giant YES sign until you hit the boundary warning and pretend its says WELL DONE! YOU HAVE FINISHED THE GAME! or there's what I think is a nicer 'exit' to the right of Hurk Drubman's house - right fork there is a tricky but do-able rock climb, then pretend the hollow beyond that has an old tunnel out of sight. Make sure you find out how to backup the single gamesave (VERY important) and do it VERY regularly. Now, regard the 'Resistance Points' as 'Get noticed by the Cult Points'. Instead of trying to GAIN RPs you must AVOID them at all costs. To do this you cannot liberate any cult outposts nor kill any VIP cultists nor release any captives nor destroy cult property. Shoot any captives first else if they're not tied up they'll run off and you'll be 'penalised' with RPs. An alternative of course is to tolerate a few RPs so long as you don't cross a division in the list. Apart from looting, there's LOADS of treasure stashes to find. And just cruising around is great fun for a while. Not sure it's worth full price for this game though. So, any recommendations for good stealth, first person, preferably open-world games on PS4?

The problem is alert attribution. A mere alert state elevation, e.g., the guard seeing non-player enemy, should NOT count towards the player's Stealth Score! Don't do that! If the stealth score registration applies only to guards seeing absence markers, then I think there are good arguments on both sides whether a guard alert should register against the player. It's in a similar category as AI seeing blood, bodies, and weapons. But in this case I think it's okay to count to the stealth score because other AI can kill other AI, but other AI do not steal, so unlike the other examples, the absence marker is uniquely the player's fault in the game. So making only that count to the stealth score is fair I think. But yes, some bark or other indication would also be fair. Re: the proposal for the spawnarg for guard's noticing loot being removed, I think it should not be removed IMO because now you're directly contradiction a design decision made by an author. You can criticize the author and say that's a stupid mechanic, sure, or there are cases where there are bugs and the design intention isn't be followed that should be fixed to meet the intention, but I think intentional design decisions that work as intended should never be changed because authors should have absolute autonomy over their own design. Edit: Informing authors that that mechanic can ruin ghosting runs, which many players value, and then leaving it up to them to decide whether or not to change it for that reason, that's a valid thing to try to do IMO, as long as its the author's final decision what to do. Edit2: There is an argument there to leave it alone too. It punishes the player by putting the guard on alert to create more challenge, but it doesn't count to the stealth score so people can still do ghosting runs & be validated for them according to traditional ghosting rules, which have never counted stolen loot to a ghosting bust. So that's the argument to tolerate guards going on alert seeing stolen loot but it not counting to the stealth score. And it's a good argument IMO, since the stealth score has always been linked to people caring about ghosting attempts, or how close they can get to it, and it follows the rules better. Don't fix what isn't broken.

Played Grounded difficulty a couple of times and could not get past the school in Bill's town. My first attempt I got stuck on first entry into the school. I couldn't sight the bow properly and I now think that was a glitch or a setting I couldn't figure out because this second attempt it worked normally. Oddly, whereas in easier levels I seem to get two uses out of each arrow, in Grounded it seems randomised and a new arrow might get 1 to 3 (more?) uses. I definitely got three uses. Anyway, this first area in the school took a lot of stealth takedowns every one of which needed a lot of trial and error because of the need to preserve ammo etc for the Bloater in the next area - and that's where I'm stuck. In lower levels, I always enter the gym with 3 nail bombs, 3 molotovs, and plenty of shotgun shells. I'd typically lob all or most of the bombs and molotovs at the Bloater right at the start and then run round like hell waiting an opportunity to blast it with the shotgun. In Grounded, despite HUGE effort to preserve resources, all I have left is 1 nail bomb, 1 molotov, and 6 shotgun shells. I also have just enough resources to make EITHER a health pack OR another molotov. That's when I discovered my health was near-zero! I gave it a lot of thought and decided I'd have to restore my health. So 1 bomb and 1 molotov. I knew this wouldn't work. Sure enough, I ran out of ammo pretty quick and died from a single hit. Has anyone ever got past this scene with 1 bomb and 1 molotov (on ANY level?) Presumably it must be possible because it seems impossible on Grounded to ever get enough resources to have more than 1 bomb (the one Bill gave me) and maybe 2 molotovs (the first one found on a corpse.) Believe me, I scrape the barrel for resources in EVERY scene and there is almost NOTHING anywhere! Every single bullet is precious. And almost no shivs so none ever to spare to open doors so how much resources did I miss that way? All I can think of is a crazy race run perfectly and never taking a hit and hoping to pick up dozens of shotgun shells from bare-fist punching of runners. This sounds near-impossible. (Although Bill did finally get off his fat arse and kill 4 infected in the final surge outside just before climbing that bus to get in the school. (I did that by racing around madly for a long time then suddenly forced to bare-fist a runner I was astonished to find it was the last one!) Maybe if I could survive by running round the gym he'd take down the Bloater? There are far more difficult battles beyond this so I doubt I'll bother.

Creating a new thread for this as it was being discussed in an old beta-testing thread starting here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21822-beta-testing-high-expectations/&do=findComment&comment=490751 I suppose the main questions are: when should this spawnarg be used, if at all? why was it introduced in the first place? Can we get it documented properly on the Wiki so misuse isn't propagated? @stgatilov @Dragofer

This is a really nice mission. It's just the right size and difficulty, looks great, and the mission objectives provide plenty of challenge without being obtuse. The manor seemed to be absolutely swarming with guards but there were always opportunities to slip by if you were a bit patient. I finished on the hardest difficulty with a perfect stealth score and about 1800/2024 loot.

Its not that people are dismissing the game because of lack of shouldering, but rather a combination of things. That would be a real argument that the following occurs; 1. People don't know how to keep from making noise when moving stuff around (holding creep). 2. People don't know when black jacking works and when it doesn't (general options menu toggle). 3. Blackjack hits overhead stone overhead archway or wooden foundation (was fixed). 4. Picking up a blackjacked guard should be easy and players should know how to do it right away (new). 5. Not know how to extinguish candles and lanterns (easier and new). 6. Not knowing about general gameplay tips specific to missions (new). 7. Not being able to use favorite addons together (new). 8. Being able to know how much loot is left in a mission and mission stats like stealth score mid mission to properly ghost w/o too much spent on replaying parts of a mission (pending and in a addon). 9. Guards either searching for the noise disturbance for too long, or giving up too quickly and thus making some small missions either really tough for small mistakes or far too easy to get through (difficulty changes proposed by some). Many of these are not fixable without a global tip system for first time players, a expanded tutorial mission, and quality of life changes (a general gameplay change is not always about accessibility, options and cvars exist for that reason, but sometimes its about making it so that a button press should do what most players intentions aim to do, 95% of the time.

Hi all, We are an indie developer currently working on a stealth game called Winter Ember. Winter Ember is heavily inspired by the Thief series. I would love to see my fellow stealth fans check out it out and let me know what you think! The Steam page has gone live, please check it out! https://store.steampowered.com/app/1417880/Winter_Ember/ Cheers, Rob

I am 100% on board with optional bonus challenges (mutators) you can activate before launching an FM. Could be a nice project for me for 2.13. As posted in the "Hazard Pay" thread, my idea for a save restriction mutator is that you pay for each save with some resource like a water arrow or a health potion. Something that hurts, to make players who seek the tension think twice about saving. Another mutator idea was "Ghost", i.e., mission fails as soon as stealth score turns non-zero and blackjacking is disabled. I wonder why everybody jumped on the save restriction topic, instead of this mutator, which would be really useful for quite a few players, wouldn't it?

-:- BEYOND THE MODPACK -:- Let's list here other tools and mods available for TDM. Candidates are supposed to have a degree of completeness, provide some value to players, and work with TDM without much effort. Are we missing anything? Speak up! Refer to the TDM Wiki for an additional list of add-ons. TDM 2.12 introduces Multi-addons support and some mods may not yet be ready for 2.12 but everything will eventually get updated, I am sure. ALL: please use the dedicated topics to comment and/or contact the authors! Do not do it here. Modders: if you don't want your tool/mod listed here, or if you want your tool/mod presented differently, please contact me here or via private message. ~ AngelLoader Credits: FenPhoenix Description: [...] AngelLoader is a standalone fan mission loader for Thief 1, Thief 2, Thief 3, System Shock 2, and The Dark Mod. Unlike FMSel, which requires a separate copy for each game, AngelLoader allows you to manage and play all your FMs in one place. [...] Topic: AngelLoader TDM Support (now released!) GitHub: AngelLoader ~ Unofficial Patch Credits: wesp5 (and other contributors) Description: [...] This patch adds several small improvements to the main game which in my opinion make gameplay more realistic and fun, sometimes easier as well, and it also brings some order to the downloaded missions list! [...] Topic: Unofficial Patch ModDB: The Dark Mod Unofficial Patch ~ Fresnel Mod Credits: nbohr1more Description: [...] It enhances the 3D depth of scenes and makes metals, wood, and skin look more realistic [...] Topic: TDM Fresnel Mod ModDB: Fresnel Mod 2.12 ( Unofficial ) ~ Flame Glare Mod Credits: nbohr1more Description: Wanna have beautiful glows with your Torches and Flames? Look no further! Topic: A little experiment with Fire glares... ModDB: Flame Glare Mod ~ Augmentation Mod Credits: MirceaKitsune Description: [...] an addon that implements detailed player functionality, inspired by the first DeusEx game (The Conspiracy) [...] Topic: Script: Per limb damage, skill system (WIP) ~ Wearable disguises Credits: MirceaKitsune Description: [...] The player can pick up headwear and equip by using the item, making you a member of the target team when active. [...] Topic: Mod: Wearable disguises ~ Alternative Footstep Sound Package Credits: SeriousToni Description: [...] If you like to try an alternative set of footstep sounds [...] Topic: New Footstep sounds ~ Railway Lamp Credits: Obsttorte, Dragofer, Goldwell, Amadeus, snatcher (and probably others) Description: First person view (like a weapon) Railway lamp / lantern for the player. Topic: Player Lamp (beta) ~ Adjust player speed with mouse wheel Credits: Obsttorte, snatcher Description: Proof of concept for adjusting the player speed with the mouse wheel using the external app AutoHotkey. Post: Adjust player speed with mouse wheel ~ Stealth Statistics Tool Credits: Dragofer (and other contributors) Description: [...] you will start every FM with a scroll called "Stealth Statistics" in your inventory, which you can "read" to show a small message with current stealth statistics [...] Post: View Stealth Score during gameplay? ModDB: Dragofer's Stealth Statistic Tool ~ Loot Stealth Stats Credits: kcghost Description: [...] overrides the loot inventory gui and associated script. I got rid of the loot breakdown (jewels, gold, etc.) as well as the loot icon that appears (didn't look right next to longer text). Instead it displays a stealth breakdown and total loot out of the mission's available loot. Suspicions, Searches, Sightings, Bodies, Score, Loot [...] Post: View Stealth Score during gameplay?

So, I've got a confession to make: Up until recently, I hadn't really played a full FM in quite some time as I only did the occasional playtesting. I am currently trying to catch up and boy did I miss some gems! This FM is one of them and easily one of my all-time favorites. The save-system on expert combined with the incredible athmosphere of your mission created a tension I haven't felt in a Thief-style game in a long, long time. Thank you, thank you, thank you and bravo @kingsal. TDM and its mappers have really come a long way, competing high up there with commercial productions. Your FM inspired me in two ways: At one point, I died due to my character not jumping off a slope, eventhough I felt like I pressed jump at the right time. I think everybody of us knows this issue and you always have this kind of in the back of your head that you don't jump when the ground is not perfectly even. This failed jump was of course very annoying due to the saving constraints, so I instantly started thinking how we could solve this. There's a technique known primarily from platformers but also from FPS like Doom Eternal, and that technique is called "Coyote Time". It allows the player to jump for some short timespan after leaving a platform. We should maybe explore something similar for TDM, to make jumping off slopes more reliable. We have to be careful to not allow the player to cross further distances this way of course. I loved the save restriction and the tension it create so much, that I want more of it. I started to brainstorm and remembered the optional game mutators from Unreal back in the day. These mutators allowed you to enable extra challenges or modified physics etc. for your game. Coming back to the save restriction, a respective mutator for TDM could be that each savegame costs some resource. Some resource that hurts, like a water arrow or a health potion, to make the player think twice about saving. A mutator like that would honestly be my default play-setting, I think. Other obvious mutators could be "Ghost" (missions fails as soon as the stealth score is non-zero and blackjacking is disabled), "Ironman" (no saves), "Strong Enemies" (enemies hit harder, have more health). I shall follow up on both of these points soon.

Prey is much less stealth focused than TDM, so hiding bodies serves much less of a purpose. Much like System Shock actually. By the way, you should also give the System Shock 1 Remake a shot. While its probably best enjoyed, if you already played the original, it's still a great game anyway.

The second Styx game is a very nice Stealth game, very similar to Thief actually (except that it's third person) and much better than the first title. I hope anyone got this game. If not, it is still on 85% sale right now.

Hello! Tracking down information on software and plug-ins that work with D3 / TDM can be a tough. So I have created a thread here where people can post what software/ plug-ins/ tutorials or other references they've had success or failure with in TDM. 3DS MAX 2013 64bit .ase - Default .ASE model exporter works. However you have to open the .ase file in text edit and manual change the *BITMAP line on each material to read something like: "//base/textures/common/collision" which allows the engine to read the correct material path. md5.mesh / animation - Beserker's md5 exporter/importers for 3dsmax. http://www.katsbits.com/tools, Importing and exporting works. The model must be textured, UV'd, with a skin modifier attached to the bones to export. PM me (Kingsal) for help with this. Imported models using the script will not be weighted appropriately, so this is not recommended if you are simply trying to edit existing tdm content. (Use blender instead) MAYA 2011 32bit md5.mesh - So far I've not had any luck with Maya 2011. I am using Greebo's MayaImportx86 for Maya 2011. I've got the importer working however I get a "Unexpected Internal Failure(kFailure)" and the import fails. This could be due to something finicky in Maya that I am not doing correctly. Will keep trying.. Blender 2.7 about - Blender is commonly used and pretty well supported on the forums/ wiki. Various versions may work as well - https://www.blender.org/download/ md5.mesh / animation Blender MD5 importer/exporter (io_scene_md5.zip): https://sourceforge.net/projects/blenderbitsbobs/files/ Sotha's guide Blender Male/ Female rigs by Arcturus - Here Edit by Dragofer: more links found in this post.

Styx: Shards of Darkness 100% off on GOG, less than 8 hours left https://www.gog.com/en/game/styx_shards_of_darkness https://www.gog.com/giveaway/claim It's supposedly a stealth game but the two trailers are cinematic.

Yeah, we agree. I am not criticizing that alert X is Y points. Y must be something and it is what it is. Getting "seen" could perfectly have a bigger impact, to encourage players not to be seen - in example - and drastically decrease the score, but this is a different topic altogether. What matters is that the Stealth score remains consistent across missions and among all difficulty levels, which is the case. A different story though is whether the difficulty settings (AI Vision, AI hearing) should play any role or not. I think it all comes down to how the first page is presented, which feels kind of unfocused and therefore dull, and the second page doesn't improve things much. By having the "Mission Score" I propose players will normally always get a positive outcome based on facts. The outcome. The Stealth Score implementation and perception is arbitrary and subjective and perhaps it doesn't deserve much focus not to confuse players. I haven't thought about the Stealth Score and all the variables much and I don't have any suggestion other than a negative "Ghosting Score".

As probably no one will dare to suggest it if i don't, i do it: Cyberpunk 2077 with Realistic Combat Overhaul (i also use 230+ other mods, but i might be a mod hoarder and you definitely can have a good stealth shooter experience with less than 30 mods) Obviously, that game isn't pure. You probably can ghost your way through a lot of the missions. But if you actually want to play nonleathal, you better play something else. Where it shines, is the world building and gameplay. You get a shit ton of exploration, a pretty diverse set of side missions some with exceptionally good story writing. And you can play most of it as a stealth game. While it is immersive, it isn't really a sim though. You can't use the environment in unexpected ways apart from some verticality (and even more verticality with mods). So yeah, it is more like Deus Ex if it where open world (world opens up after first main quest). But stealth was meant to be a viable option in the base game and with mods it actually is. P.S.: Also the two Styx games - they actually are hardcore stealth. And Arx Fatalis (ugly but aged better than thief).

After taking a gaming break for 1 week, i decided to get back into playing games yesterday especially stealth game like TDM. Coincidentally, this new fan mission appeared in the online mission archive when i was clicking "download mission" button, so I decided to download & try playing it. I like this manor/estate fan mission so far. i like the starting point of this FM where you have to venture silently into small-scale spider-infested forest. On a related note, i have sporadic spider phobia and again this mission helped me to desensitize myself to spider. I usually find the entry point to the manor disguised as a wall with loose bricks or covered with tall green grass but i have to find stone walled key for this one

Looking at the code, the originals were "pm_mantle_pull 750" and "pm_mantle_pullFast 450". The new "pm_mantle_pull" value is "400". A "pm_mantle_pullFast" value of "450" would be slower than regular pull, not faster. With both being set to "400", they are at least similar. Other than that, it's subjective and the feedback from playtesters was positive. Also, referenced internally here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22256-movementcontrols-settings-in-main-menu/&do=findComment&comment=489158

Alternatively, it's possible the update came from the old missions repo (packed) which still has the stealth scroll bug, instead of the new missions repo (unpacked) which has the fixed version. I just downloaded the FM for the first time on this install and it was the correct version.

The statistic scroll script has the inclusion guard, but it still fails although I use the same script, maybe this is not working as intended when the game tries to include it twice? Here is the error I get and the part of the script that causes it: Error: file script/tdm_statistic_message.script, line 5: statistic_message_init redeclared #ifndef __STATISTIC_MESSAGE__ #define __STATISTIC_MESSAGE__ void statistic_message_init() //spawns a statistic scroll inventory item that's added to the player's inventory automatically. It carries a scriptobject to display stealth statistics on a message entity, by Dragofer { entity statistic_message = sys.spawn("atdm:statistic_message"); //spawns a message entity tailored to showing 2 lines of statistics entity statistic_scroll = sys.spawn("atdm:statistic_scroll"); //spawns an inventory scroll that controls the message entity statistic_scroll.addTarget(statistic_message); //links the inventory scroll to the message entity } ... #endif __STATISTIC_MESSAGE__