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Things that could be improved


Berny

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No. Have you never played a TES game?

 

You select your weapon with the number keys. And your sheath button will sheath and draw it until you select another weapon. Its quite simple and would make all the difference.

 

Yes, all of them. The difference for me is, in TES, you nearly always need the same weapon. You're using your bow so you sheath/draw it. You're using Blunt so you sheath/draw it, etc.

 

In TDM, you are generally in many different types of situations throughout a level, so you come in to a room and you need water arrows to extinguish a torch, then a rope arrow to climb something then a broadhead to knock over a candle. You sheath the weapon and then the next time you need a weapon, most the time it isn't the one you had out. So I just know the numbers and hit the key of the weapon I want. TAB to put them away. My binds are exactly the same save for Gas & Vine arrows (reversed) as RJFerrets.

 

I also rarely walk around with a weapon in my hand unless its the black jack and generally I put that away.

 

Anyway, it won't hurt anything adding the control and at least it won't affect some of us.

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Perhaps something like this?

 

2cnw1l1.jpg

 

Or:

 

2gy2bo9.jpg

 

(The pics above are just examples).

I like the idea in the second picture because it communicates two bits of information at once - that you've completed a mission at least once, and (presumably) the higest level of difficult the mission was accomplished on. Makes it very easy to see at a glance which missions haven't been completed on their hardest difficulty yet as opposed to just a simple checkbox in the list.

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I like the idea in the second picture because it communicates two bits of information at once - that you've completed a mission at least once, and (presumably) the higest level of difficult the mission was accomplished on. Makes it very easy to see at a glance which missions haven't been completed on their hardest difficulty yet as opposed to just a simple checkbox in the list.

 

 

 

Well, the idea was actually quality rating displayed as well as the difficulty setting of the mission. It's true that both parameters are quite relative and non of the Missions really has a quality or difficulty ranking right now. But it could serve as a way for the player to Filter the missions they want to download based on quality or difficulty of the map. Your vision makes more sense cause it pinpoints the difficulty. Maybe the stars could serve as a way of incentive to the player to finish the map at a certain difficulty.

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Well, the idea was actually quality rating displayed as well as the difficulty setting of the mission. It's true that both parameters are quite relative and non of the Missions really has a quality or difficulty ranking right now. But it could serve as a way for the player to Filter the missions they want to download based on quality or difficulty of the map. Your vision makes more sense cause it pinpoints the difficulty. Maybe the stars could serve as a way of incentive to the player to finish the map at a certain difficulty.

 

 

I like the difficulty idea, it would encourage repeat playing.

 

Don't care for the quality part, one man's trash is another's treasure. Besides, lots of maps I've revisited that I didn't like on first play, and they've really become fun with second or third tries. Kinda like that song you didn't think you liked at first, but after hearing it a bit you get to liking it more than you thought you did.

 

One thing I would like to add.............IT WOULD BE AWESOME IF WE COULD TYPE NOTES ON THE MAPS LIKE THIEF LET US DO! Probably not possible with the system we have, but I absolutely LOVE that feature. It was more powerful than standalone notes as it let you put text directly on an area of a map telling you "this is where sceptor is" to let you know that once you had the proper key you can go back there and find location easily. Or to jot down some a guard said like "water talisman is on top floor." It was totally realistic to jot notes on the maps you had, and it made the map that much more interactive. Again, probably not possible, but very much desired.

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Hopefully we could see some of these additions in the game Deadlove. :)

 

 

Here are some ideas for new weapons:

 

- Holy water arrows, instead of having to apply the holy water to arrows, having the option to buy holy water arrows with twice the cost of regular water arrows. The whole Holy Water+Water Arrow was a element I never understood in Thief. It's pretty tedious in my opinion.

 

-Silver Arrows: Used to deal with Vampires, Werewolves or Demonic Creatures. Just to be there in case someone plans to include them in a Mission.

 

-Oil Arrows: If a guard is carrying a torch, simply set him on fire! :) Or to be used in conjunction with the fire arrow to create a fire wall or make a trap.

 

-Back stab: This is not a weapon but rather a gameplay change by turning the back of a guard as vulnerable as the head, so it can be back stabbed with a frontal thrust or poke with a sword. I don't think it's necessary to add a Dagger if you can do it with the sword.

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Hopefully we could see some of these additions in the game Deadlove. :)

 

 

Here are some ideas for new weapons:

 

- Holy water arrows, instead of having to apply the holy water to arrows, having the option to buy holy water arrows with twice the cost of regular water arrows. The whole Holy Water+Water Arrow was a element I never understood in Thief. It's pretty tedious in my opinion.

 

-Silver Arrows: Used to deal with Vampires, Werewolves or Demonic Creatures. Just to be there in case someone plans to include them in a Mission.

 

-Oil Arrows: If a guard is carrying a torch, simply set him on fire! :) Or to be used in conjunction with the fire arrow to create a fire wall or make a trap.

 

 

These could all be done with the current mechanic (which I personally don't feel is "tedious" at all) by adding silver powder or oil flasks to the item inventory and applying the same way a holy water arrow is currently done.

Edited by Lux
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These could all be done with the current mechanic (which I personally don't feel is "tedious" at all) by adding silver powder or oil flasks to the item inventory and applying the same way a holy water arrow is currently done.

 

I agree. But what I really don't like about the current way holy water arrows are created is the time limit. Holy water is holy water and does not get unholy over time! This would make even less sense with the new options above and should be replaced with something else like now X arrows are holy water arrows. I see the problem of missing additional keys...

Edited by wesp5
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The timer could always be adjusted. Water doesn't really "stick" to stuff so one might imagine it drips off probably faster than the timer even. Still, silver powder or oil would stay put pretty much indefinitely.

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The idea is that you are sprinkling the water arrows with holy water, and the holy water dries up or drips off. The holy water sticks to the water sack longer than it would to an arrowhead. You're not actually opening up the sack of water and dumping it in.

 

And surprise attacks already do more damage than regular attacks, whether they come from behind or not.

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I like that holy water only lasts 30 seconds, it really forces the player to decide "do I really want to use this tool now or is there another way to approach this situation without using up a tool that I may need more later on?" Better gameplay.

 

The silver arrows sound nice, but TDM has no werewolves, vampires, or demons, and I really doubt it ever will. Holy water would serve just as well in these cases against something deemed unholy.

 

The oil arrows also seem a nice idea, but it's unrealistic that the thief would want to make a huge mess/commotion with that much ruckus. It's about stealth, not action.

 

I like all those ideas, just don't think they fit well in TDM.

 

I can't remember, do guards slip and fall on oil puddles in TDS?

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I *very* much would like to see loot collected serve a purpose beyond just collecting. In TDP/TMA it was essential to get as much as possible if you wnted to be able to make good purchases to prepare for next mission. In TDM I feel I'm looting just to reach an objective. As it stands, there is no need for that because there are no ongoing missions, save NHAT, which doesn't use the purchase system anyway.

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In TDM I feel I'm looting just to reach an objective

 

While I understand what you're getting at and you have a point, you've picked a game where you play the role of a Thief. If you don't want to do the things that Thieves do, then you should pick a different game.

 

It would be like playing Doom and then saying, "I feel like I'm shooting things just to get to the end of the level." :)

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I'll confess when I made "Inn Business", I considered including a store since it's progressive, items carry forward from mission to mission. However I find the store nothing more than a delay to playing the game, and as every option has to permit successful completion, choices there are irrelevant. I used to buy stuff from a store in others' missions, but then find I don't use it. Now I often don't buy much stuff, and get on with the fun.

"The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out."

- Baron Thomas Babington Macauley

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While I understand what you're getting at and you have a point, you've picked a game where you play the role of a Thief. If you don't want to do the things that Thieves do, then you should pick a different game.

 

It would be like playing Doom and then saying, "I feel like I'm shooting things just to get to the end of the level." :)

 

I think he's saying that he would like to see more of a motivation within the missions for collecting the loot...and perhaps things to spend it on ingame? Maybe I'm off about that.

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I realize that's what he's saying, and I know there's a valid point there--it's nice to be rewarded for taking the risk of getting loot, but that's also what the game is all about. You play Doom because you have fun shooting things. You play Thief or TDM because you have fun stealing things. To a certain extent, stealing things should be its own reward.

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The idea is that you are sprinkling the water arrows with holy water, and the holy water dries up or drips off. The holy water sticks to the water sack longer than it would to an arrowhead. You're not actually opening up the sack of water and dumping it in.

 

And surprise attacks already do more damage than regular attacks, whether they come from behind or not.

 

 

The purpose of making the back of the Guards more vulnerable to a frontal thrust or poke is to make way for the possibility of adding assassination option in The Missions. In case someone would like to make one. The same goes with the Silver arrows just to have the option open in case someone plans to make a vampire mission or add Little Gargoyles coming from top a Cathedral or something of that sort.

 

To Deadlove. You are right about the oil arrows but at the same time it could be used for exactly what you said. To create a fuss or distraction as it might alert all the guards from the area to that certain point. It could be even be made using the flash bomb reaction animation with the guard screaming and set on fire. The oil arrows could also make the floor slippery.

 

BTW I've been trying jumping on top of the guards from a high point to render them unconscious but to no avail. both in Back to the City and A Score To Settle. Maybe there's a youtube video or something showing how is done?

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The purpose of making the back of the Guards more vulnerable to a frontal thrust or poke is to make way for the possibility of adding assassination option

 

Why is that necessary? Attacking unaware targets already does more damage--doesn't that cover assassination? There's no particular reason why stabbing someone in the back should do more damage than stabbing them in the front.

 

BTW I've been trying jumping on top of the guards from a high point to render them unconscious but to no avail.

 

Just jumping on them won't do it. You have to hit them with your blackjack while you fall.

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This is not a weapon but rather a gameplay change by turning the back of a guard as vulnerable as the head, so it can be back stabbed with a frontal thrust or poke with a sword. I don't think it's necessary to add a Dagger if you can do it with the sword.

...possibility of adding assassination option in The Missions. In case someone would like to make one.

 

Already exists, just set your AI spawnarg for chest damage factor to 2 instead of 1.5, to match the head if that's the value you want.

 

There are already assassin missions, but I doubt they bother changing where vulnerabilities are, as you can already take out someone with one blow with surprise.

 

It affects everything that does damage, so sword and arrows and whatever else the mapper provides, like what you listed, or acid or other things.

"The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out."

- Baron Thomas Babington Macauley

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Why is that necessary? Attacking unaware targets already does more damage--doesn't that cover assassination? There's no particular reason why stabbing someone in the back should do more damage than stabbing them in the front.

 

I guess you can't really back stab a guard if he's in front of you. Just as a simple alternative to hit them in the head for or a single shot with an arrow.

 

 

Just jumping on them won't do it. You have to hit them with your blackjack while you fall.

 

This was precisely what I proposed earlier. Making the player able to render a guard unconscious if the player falls on top of the guard's head from a higher point.

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This was precisely what I proposed earlier. Making the player able to render a guard unconscious if the player falls on top of the guard's head from a higher point.

 

This isn't Super Mario Brothers, but as suggested earlier, such a fall would likely hurt the player beyond playability, what with the broken bones, unconsciousness, or death resulting. However mappers could set this up if desired.

"The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out."

- Baron Thomas Babington Macauley

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I read some of the other threads here in the meantime and there was the suggestion to turn the training mission into some kind of mini city hub where you meet a fence to start the FMs and could also have an unified store. I really like this idea! Together with some included team member campaigns it would also help with the whole "TDM is a toolkit" discussion, because it would string the missions closer together in a way. I disagree with the original poster though, that the player would have to move to a part of this hub fitting to the entry point of the FM because this would probably mean a lot more work than a new hub-training-map would mean anyway. In my opinion it would be fine if the FMs could be selected either from a fence or maybe a board in a thieves guild and they would then get loaded like they are right now. What do you think?

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I think that would be a good mechanic for a set campaign, but not as a general mechanic for all or even some FMs.

 

For one, FMs have completely different back stories and even different player characters. Also, the hub would throw the story of the FM off more than help it. I mean the intro briefing of an FM is already there to introduce it; the hub would just stand in like an embarrassing hang-on beside it.

 

But if a set campaign were made with it in mind, then yeah, it's a valid idea IMO just for it. A mapper could do it.

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What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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Unified purchases were already suggested by me. But it just wont work with how the Missions are structured. :( There's a very nice idea of making an Official Mission/Tutorial in a similar way that is now but much more dynamic. The Training map is very varied and can help guide new players through varied situations. I already got some nice ideas. :) For example I think there are two generators in that particular map (I think) As an initial as an objective, the player could be asked to turn off those generators off to turn the electrical system off and make way for a prisoner escape. (Maybe adding a third generator). :) Also turning the Bow practice area into some sort of town fair with a few guards/citizens or a town marketplace, then placing ropes that go over the towers and making the player cross one point to the other above the whole area.

Edited by Taquito
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