Custom screenshots image format

[stgatilov]

@Tels suggested to change the image format of screenshots taken in TDM. Right now (in my working copy) screenshot format can be set to any of the variants you see in the poll. Other image formats can be added easily. The question is: what screenshot format should be used by default?

 

tga: This format is default now. It is uncompressed. The only drawback is that it is not very standard (compared to bmp).

 

bmp: This format is uncompressed, so the size of screenshots is the same as for tga.

 

png: Standard format for web images, uses lossless compression. The time to take screenshot increases, but size is less.

jpg: Standard format for photos, uses lossy compression (can blur images). Size should be even less than for png.

 

UPDATE (Heart indoors 1280x1024):

 

tga, bmp: time = almost instant, size = 3.75 Mb.

 

png: time = 1 sec, size = 1.0 Mb.

jpg: time = about 0.5 sec or less, size = 0.37 Mb (don't know exactly what the quality is, but almost surely it is default DevIL value 99%).

 

 

 

 

UPDATE: All the screenshot changes are already in trunk. The cvar is "tdm_screenshot_format" and is equal to "jpg" by default.

 

 

 

[Sotha]

I always open the tgas with gimp, crop them and save as png.

 

If tdm took pngs by default, hdd space would be saved. I would still need to crop the screenies in gimp anyway, so there would not be work flow reduction. But having smaller screenies would be nice.

 

Jpg is a nono, since it would not be nice to have insta-reduction in quality when the screenie is taken..

[STiFU]

I would argue that jpg is the most common image format and the common user will never need uncompressed screenshots. So as long as you can still swap image formats locally through a command, jpg should be fine. But it depends on the compression quality of the jpeg implementation. I always keep the slider in image editing programs above 90%, so that artifacts are hardly noticeable, if at all. Can high quality jpeg be achieved in D3 as well?

[Tels]

I always open the tgas with gimp, crop them and save as png.

 

If tdm took pngs by default, hdd space would be saved. I would still need to crop the screenies in gimp anyway, so there would not be work flow reduction. But having smaller screenies would be nice.

 

Jpg is a nono, since it would not be nice to have insta-reduction in quality when the screenie is taken..

 

As a developer, I take hundreds of screenshots each month, and my disk is always overflowing, so smaller size is important. The "time to take the srceenshot" does not really matter (how often do you take more than one per second), also, how much does the time rise? And isn't that countered by not having to write so much data to disk?

 

As for JPG, that's a no-no, since I need a pixel-perfect copy for some tasks.

 

Edit: Would it be possible to have a CVAR that simply sets the format, so if it is set to "tga", it writes TGA, if to "jpg", "JPG" etc. For normal users we would then set it to "JPG", so the screenshots taken for each save are sufficiently small?

[stgatilov]

Yes, there is a CVAR so each user can set his own format locally.

 

Yes, I believe that jpg quality can be set to 90% (DevIL should support such things).

 

OK, I'll take some screenshots in Heart with 1280x1024 resolution in various formats and measure time + size.

 

 

[Tels]

Yes, there is a CVAR so each user can set his own format locally.

 

Yes, I believe that jpg quality can be set to 90% (DevIL should support such things).

 

Very good!

 

OK, I'll take some screenshots in Heart with 1280x1024 resolution in various formats and measure time + size.

 

Thank you! Can you do one 1920x1200, too? For me, each TGA screenshot is 6.6 Mbytes

[Fidcal]

Same as what Stifu said plus cvar Tels said. A high quality jpg is good enough for me even if I wanted to make a title loader, inventory icon, etc.

[SiyahParsomen]

A loseless jpg image is enough for me.

Edited July 10, 2011 by SiyahParsomen

[Bikerdude]

.jpg all the way!

[Springheel]

Yes, I'd rather .jpg by default, and a cvar to switch to .tga when necessary (says the person with 5.34GB (?!?) in his Screenshot folder).

[Briareos H]

A loseless jpg image is enough for me.

 

All commonly used JPEG files files are lossy.

 

I'd rather get .png, losing half a second is worth the spared disk space and a pixel-perfect screenshot is a definite plus when you're working on comparing shots, or for resizing.

Since "common users" will have to use an external tool to crop their screenshots before putting them online (and therefore be able to convert to .jpg at that moment), there's just no advantage of JPEG over PNG.

[SiyahParsomen]

All commonly used JPEG files files are lossy.

 

I'd rather get .png, losing half a second is worth the spared disk space and a pixel-perfect screenshot is a definite plus when you're working on comparing shots, or for resizing.

Since "common users" will have to use an external tool to crop their screenshots before putting them online (and therefore be able to convert to .jpg at that moment), there's just no advantage of JPEG over PNG.

 

Whatever. It's even okay a blurry jpeg for me since I use fraps like "common users" to take a screenshot.

 

edit: I changed my vote to bmp to be neutral on this.

Edited July 11, 2011 by SiyahParsomen

[Bikerdude]

Siyah, bmp is just as bad TGA for size, and the reason the jpeg was blurry in your case was due to the compression and the quality level used at the time.

[New Horizon]

JPEG would be my vote for the 'default' for users. Jpeg looks fine if the quality level is high enough, and if users want higher quality we can let them toggle a different format via the console.

[Sotha]

I'm puzzled why so many people want ugly compression artefacts by default? Both of the formats are well supported so it must simply boil down to file size?

 

What's the size difference of a clear crispy .png and a not-so-clear-crispy 95% .jpg?

[Ladro]

I prefer PNG, lossless, and it's a free and open standard.

[stgatilov]

I'm puzzled why so many people want ugly compression artefacts by default? Both of the formats are well supported so it must simply boil down to file size?

 

What's the size difference of a clear crispy .png and a not-so-clear-crispy 95% .jpg?

 

Did you read the update at my first post?

 

 

jpg is almost 3 times smaller than png and saves significantly faster (2-3 times). The intention to save the bit-exact image heavily hirts png size and performance. I think it's inherent in lossless compression.

 

I think I'll change my vote from png to jpg (after testing).

 

 

[Sotha]

Did you read the update at my first post?

 

Nope, I never reread thread posts, unless there is a new post hinting there is relevant new info in the original post.

 

The comparison looks favourable to the .jpg format. All what is now required is a screenie posting, which shows that the .jpg is not obviously inferior to the png in quality, and I suppose it is jpg FTW.

[stgatilov]

Nope, I never reread thread posts, unless there is a new post hinting there is relevant new info in the original post.

 

The comparison looks favourable to the .jpg format. All what is now required is a screenie posting, which shows that the .jpg is not obviously inferior to the png in quality, and I suppose it is jpg FTW.

Here are the missing screenshot examples:

 

(Do not forget to click on the image if you want to see the original 1280x1024 version)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tels]

jpg is almost 3 times smaller than png and saves significantly faster (2-3 times). The intention to save the bit-exact image heavily hirts png size and performance. I think it's inherent in lossless compression.

 

I think I'll change my vote from png to jpg (after testing).

 

I voted "JPG" - with the understanding that there will be a "toggle it to PNG" option via cvar for developer needs, and that even I a sa developer, will be taking JPGs in 99% of the time.

 

It is not so about the compression artefacts in JPG changing pixel values, but also because of the colorspace reduction in JP, which distorts colors (esp. on fine crisp details like fonts).

 

BTW, the image format is also used to store a screenshot with every savegame (!), so with the recent advances in compressing savegames, on a resolution of 1920x1200, the savegame for Heart is 2.5 Mbyte, while the screenshot is for each is 7.0 Mbyte... If you are running TDM on a multi-monitor setup, that is going to eat your HD space like crazy

[stgatilov]

BTW, the image format is also used to store a screenshot with every savegame (!), so with the recent advances in compressing savegames, on a resolution of 1920x1200, the savegame for Heart is 2.5 Mbyte, while the screenshot is for each is 7.0 Mbyte... If you are running TDM on a multi-monitor setup, that is going to eat your HD space like crazy

 

 

 

Ehm... First of all, I do not intercept the savegame screenshots because I only intercept everything written to files with names "*screenshots\shot?????.tga". And second: savegame screenshots are two times smaller than your D3 resolution, so they take 4 times less space. Still a lot though...

[stgatilov]

BTW I committed screenshot changes to trunk with jpg as default choice.

[Tels]

Ehm... First of all, I do not intercept the savegame screenshots because I only intercept everything written to files with names "*screenshots\shot?????.tga". And second: savegame screenshots are two times smaller than your D3 resolution, so they take 4 times less space. Still a lot though...

 

Ah, ok. It is 2.3 Mbyte on my system (not quite 1/4), which is still a lot, tho. Would it be possile to intercept these, too?

 

I am building the linux version to test it as we speak.

[Tels]

Ah, ok. It is 2.3 Mbyte on my system (not quite 1/4), which is still a lot, tho. Would it be possile to intercept these, too?

 

I am building the linux version to test it as we speak.

 

It compiles, but still saves a TGA. Not sure why, tho.

[jaxa]

I voted PNG because I like to start out with lossless, it's a smaller filesize than BMP/TGA obviously, and can be immediately opened by all users (for TGA you need to have like Irfanview, which I use). Also, I'd actually like some sort of feedback for my brain that I actually took a screenshot, so a one second delay would be fine . Although maybe there should be some text in the style of hitting quicksave.

 

For savegames shouldn't you be storing a really tiny JPEG?