Promotion and what-not

[Shadowhide]

In life, we get what we give

bullshit

[SiyahParsomen]

that's what you'll get, when you try to lecture a troll. lol

[New Horizon]

bullshit

 

If that's the attitude you show toward others, then that is the attitude they're going to throw back at you. The results of your actions and the reactions to you on this forum are proof enough and everyone has said exactly the same thing. Be nice and people will be nice back. Yes, there will always be a few people who will simply refuse to change and be rude or angry all the time (Aprilsister for example), but it's up to you to decide who you choose to be. For a few years, while I was sick, I was not the best version of myself that I could be and I fell into a very dark set of patterns and habits. It got to the point where I was so emotionally and physically ill that my body seemed to even be attacking itself. I made a conscious decision to change and from that day onward, my life has completely changed. The same people who used to pass me by in the coffee shop now stop and sit down for a chat. I've gone from being unemployable to being hired within a few hours of an interview. I'm happier and healthier for not wallowing and projecting negativity. It's still in there, it exists in all of us, but I choose to work on the positive. You are free to call it bullshit, I probably would have too , but I've seen far too many things change after changing my attitude to discredit it. There is something to it. We reap what we sow. Call it karma, a cosmic balance, or whatever. It has made a huge difference in my life. When you believe in people, then the good people believe in you right back. All the best SH, and I look forward to seeing how your next mission turns out. You're first one was great for a first mission, so keep on practicing and before you know it...your work will stand among the great FM's out there.

[Glyph Seeker]

@BC

 

I Just googled "lock this thread" for something obvious but non-inflammatory and was surprised to see that come up as a real thing.

 

@Sotha.

 

Cheers - I would have quit if AS didn't get suspended/banned - that was getting toxic.

 

@NH

 

I think I know that feeling - I was in a bad place a year ago - felt sick all the time. But recuperating and feeling better overall now. Glad you turned around as well!

 

@Shadowhide

 

I don't think you're a troll - if you were you wouldn't have spent many hours creating a mission and learning the software. I just think you have very very high expectations from games, mods and level designers and indeed, of yourself. When you express your frustrations with things not being as complex or as fulfilling as the original Thief and the ambitious FMs from the DromEd era, it unfortunately comes across as rudeness rather than honesty.

 

Just my impression of you.

[Thiefette]

If that's the attitude you show toward others, then that is the attitude they're going to throw back at you. The results of your actions and the reactions to you on this forum are proof enough and everyone has said exactly the same thing. Be nice and people will be nice back. Yes, there will always be a few people who will simply refuse to change and be rude or angry all the time (Aprilsister for example), but it's up to you to decide who you choose to be. For a few years, while I was sick, I was not the best version of myself that I could be and I fell into a very dark set of patterns and habits. It got to the point where I was so emotionally and physically ill that my body seemed to even be attacking itself. I made a conscious decision to change and from that day onward, my life has completely changed. The same people who used to pass me by in the coffee shop now stop and sit down for a chat. I've gone from being unemployable to being hired within a few hours of an interview. I'm happier and healthier for not wallowing and projecting negativity. It's still in there, it exists in all of us, but I choose to work on the positive. You are free to call it bullshit, I probably would have too , but I've seen far too many things change after changing my attitude to discredit it. There is something to it. We reap what we sow. Call it karma, a cosmic balance, or whatever. It has made a huge difference in my life. When you believe in people, then the good people believe in you right back. All the best SH, and I look forward to seeing how your next mission turns out. You're first one was great for a first mission, so keep on practicing and before you know it...your work will stand among the great FM's out there.

 

I agree. You cannot change anyone else but yourself and if people are rude or ignorant to you then you need to look in the mirror first to see what's reflecting back.

[Briareos H]

Glyph Seeker is bang on the money. Shadowhide has this very typical slavic tendency to quickly shoot down anything which holds no or minimal artistic value to his eyes including his own work, and at the same time maintaining very high standards of what exactly is artistic.

He doesn't have the hindsight to realise his obnoxious ways will be sooner a disservice to him than an honest statement of faith, but he is at least very consistent. As strange as it sounds, his negativity is -until it hurts someone- rather positive-oriented, always trying to reach beyond what currently exists. He can be annoying, but to me he is a simple and honest person.

 

Aprilsister's negativity was exactly the opposite: hateful, pointless, not aimed at anything except hurting others and full of contradictions.

 

Shadowhide I like you but for god's sake, try to force yourself to have somme manners. We're not in russia, if you are cold and direct to people they'll get hurt and show some resentment which is exactly why when given the choice, some may want to publicise another author's mission rather than yours.

People do not judge only on artistic merits, so get over it

Edited September 4, 2011 by Briareos H

[7upMan]

The thing is that SH does a lot of advertising for TDM over at darkfate.ru, and he does his best to encourage the folks over there to joing the TDM mapper club. OTOH, here he is the exact opposite, trying to get in the way as much as possible. It's like a split personality of sorts, like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Retard.

 

Besides, Russians (and other Slavic ppl) are actually warm and friendly people, without the superficiality one encounters in western countries like the US. Who knows why SH is the way he is, maybe his mother dropped him on the head when he was a baby. It has happened to all of us, I guess, but some get more damage out of it than others.

 

 

[MoroseTroll]

Briareos H: I hope you are not a Slavophobe, aren't you? You see, you may don't like Shadowhide as a person, but you cannot say the things you just said about all Slavic people because you, apparently, don't know them. So please stop it.

[Springheel]

On the topic of promotion, an idea that I've toyed around with but will probably never get time to do is creating a series of video trailers/gameplay guides for TDM.

 

The first would be a serious version of the one Happyfriar did. Something that would be only two or three minutes long, which gives a quick overview of what TDM is and what features it has, along with clips of its best missions/environments.

 

If you do a search for TDM videos right now, you find a lot of really outdated trailers from 5 years ago (and it's not clear to the casual viewer that they're outdated in many cases) along with mission walkthroughs and the occasional tech demo.

 

An updated trailer would be something we could use to promote TDM in other forums where people may not know what it is.

 

That video could then be followed later by some basic gameplay videos, that show off cool features and explain how to play the game--lockpicking, rope arrows, AI relighting behaviour, etc.

[deadite4]

If you can work something out to get on Desura it could help. We were put up there(and we thankfully didn't have to even agree to the content license) and it certainly drew extra visits at our moddb page.

 

Another suggestion I offer is spacing out moddb new posts, but making them a little more content full. I notice a trend of averaging every 2 weeks, sometimes even shorter in spans. While the intentions are no doubt good, it can be perceived as spamming underwhelming news posts with lacking meat. Maybe try cutting news posts down to 1 a month(give or take) and group things together for a richer news post. Moddb likes videos and pictures(advertising revenue for them) so the more content rich and interesting you can make a single news post the higher your chances get of making the moddb.com homepage which leads to huge traffic increases.

 

 

Just a few thoughts if you guys are looking at varying ideas to try and increase traffic at moddb.com

 

 

[Briareos H]

Briareos H: I hope you are not a Slavophobe, aren't you? You see, you may don't like Shadowhide as a person, but you cannot say the things you just said about all Slavic people because you, apparently, don't know them. So please stop it.

 

Considering how I enjoy my visits to Russia, no I am certainly not. I did, however, get the feeling that when it comes to talking about art, several russian (and slavic to an extent) people I know are quick to dismiss uninteresting work with cold words and always tell things as they are, instead of spending hours finding word that appease everyone. Maybe that's just the people I am surrounded by and totally unrelated to their origins, but it was too consistently common of the same people to dismiss it as such. And you know, you could say that french people complain all the time about petty things and I wouldn't talk of you as a francophobe. Generalisations always come from something.

 

Also, what part of "Shadowhide I like you[...]" didn't you understand?

[Springheel]

On the topic of promotion, an idea that I've toyed around with but will probably never get time to do is creating a series of video trailers/gameplay guides for TDM.

 

Btw, the reason I bring it up (in case it wasn't obvious) is because it's something that even a non-team-member could do. So if you're looking for ways to help out TDM and have video editing skills, that would be a great way to do it. I'd be happy to help out if anyone was interested.

[Shadowhide]

If that's the attitude you show toward others, then that is the attitude they're going to throw back at you. The results of your actions and the reactions to you on this forum are proof enough and everyone has said exactly the same thing. Be nice and people will be nice back. Yes, there will always be a few people who will simply refuse to change and be rude or angry all the time (Aprilsister for example), but it's up to you to decide who you choose to be. For a few years, while I was sick, I was not the best version of myself that I could be and I fell into a very dark set of patterns and habits. It got to the point where I was so emotionally and physically ill that my body seemed to even be attacking itself. I made a conscious decision to change and from that day onward, my life has completely changed. The same people who used to pass me by in the coffee shop now stop and sit down for a chat. I've gone from being unemployable to being hired within a few hours of an interview. I'm happier and healthier for not wallowing and projecting negativity. It's still in there, it exists in all of us, but I choose to work on the positive. You are free to call it bullshit, I probably would have too , but I've seen far too many things change after changing my attitude to discredit it. There is something to it. We reap what we sow. Call it karma, a cosmic balance, or whatever. It has made a huge difference in my life. When you believe in people, then the good people believe in you right back. All the best SH, and I look forward to seeing how your next mission turns out. You're first one was great for a first mission, so keep on practicing and before you know it...your work will stand among the great FM's out there.

 

thanks NH,i wish you best too,but i still do not believe in karma...maybe god does not like me or something like that

 

Who knows why SH is the way he is, maybe his mother dropped him on the head when he was a baby.

 

i love the way you mocking me,but i won't take any offence because its true

 

 

 

 

 

[New Horizon]

If you can work something out to get on Desura it could help. We were put up there(and we thankfully didn't have to even agree to the content license) and it certainly drew extra visits at our moddb page.

 

Desura approached us quite some time ago, but insisted that we would have to let them use their update systems for anyone who downloaded TDM from their site. We tried to explain that we have created our own ingame content delivery system but that didn't seem to work for them so we kindly declined.

[nbohr1more]

After a Doom 3 Desura feature was posted one of the regulars at Moddb jumped out and all but insulted TDM's update feature but then, remarkably, our resident Doom 3 junkie Argoon stepped in and defended TDM's way. I posted a little about our conflicting agendas and also raised the point that HL2 has an updater that could conflict with Desura in similar or worse ways than TDM's. After that... the article was deleted :laugh:

 

(Edit: It's back now... http://www.moddb.com/news/more-mods-for-doom-3-on-desura )

 

It's a hollow victory though. Desura is Moddb's bread n' butter and I can already tell the non-Desura mods are in the the Moddb ghetto. Exposure is low, super-users stop by to shit on news updates, etc. I've said it before, Moddb's "business model" can only last so long. Hosting those huge multi-GB mod files for Advertizing revenue is a losing game. They may eventually force mods to choose Desura or leave.

 

I think TDM has a chance to use the launch of a "Desura version" as a promotional event. It would really be mutually beneficial for both groups. TDM is a small community with a hugely ambitious mod, Desura is a relatively small and new product trying to expand it's presence. TDM, as a "total conversion mod" defines the very maximum caliber of product that Desura could possibly offer to end-users... "a free and totally new game for owners of a commercial title". It must be a real sore spot to have the most utterly ambitious total conversion example rejecting their new deployment (but OTOH they have virtually ignored Doom 3 modding 'till now). I totally get that Greebo doesn't even want to think of removing his (baby) updater and also has concerns about providing support but Desura claims that mod support would also be handled by them. It's the developers' prerogative to chose how TDM is distributed but I fear that we will both miss big opportunities for gained exposure and, in-fact lose exposure due to where Moddb's marketing priorities now live.

 

Now if someone can name another well-managed site that promotes Mods and hosts downloads (etc) then I'd be all for jumping ship. Right now Doom 3's second biggest mod resource is effing Filefront and it's a damn mess there. You will just as easily be bamboozled by the sight of hundreds of crappy "shader mods" which are invariably just mixes of other shader programmers' work than to find any good mods at that site. I wish Rock Paper Shotgun had a mod download section...

Edited September 5, 2011 by nbohr1more

[deadite4]

The only other game mod site that had huge traffic that I can remember over the last 7 years or so was pcgamemods.com. It disappeared one night without a trace, but at the time was a great site to host mods at. It was a strong competitor to moddb at the time from what I could gauge at traffic.

 

As far as Desura goes we were put on it in a sort of sweeping Doom 3 setup. We officially haven't agreed to their terms of use and I'm not sure I would honestly. There is a clause in the terms that doesn't really sit well with me.

 

 

 

 

In particular, Desura may use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and perform the Content and other works which are based on them (including by way of adaptation or derivative works) in any form, anywhere, with or without attribution to you, whether or not such use would otherwise be a breach of any person's moral rights, and without any notice or compensation to you of any kind. This clause does not limit Desura's privacy obligations under clause 10.

 

 

[jaxa]

Desura, yet another Steam wannabe. Except even Steam plays fair with The Dark Mod.

 

Most Desura users read ModDB news, right? And Desura's popularity as a platform is how much? I don't think there's a problem, until such time that they roll ModDB and IndieDB right into Desura (in fact I'm pretty sure some/all IndieDB content is mirrored on ModDB). They can bugger off with their TOS though:

 

In particular, Desura may use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and perform the Content and other works which are based on them (including by way of adaptation or derivative works) in any form, anywhere, with or without attribution to you, whether or not such use would otherwise be a breach of any person's moral rights, and without any notice or compensation to you of any kind. This clause does not limit Desura's privacy obligations under clause 10.

Edited September 6, 2011 by jaxa

[MoroseTroll]

Also, what part of "Shadowhide I like you[...]" didn't you understand?

Please don't pretend an innocent - your phrase that you do like Shadowhide is just a phrase, not a feeling that you do really feel. I believe that your words about Slavic and Russian people are insulting. I don't know the people you've met in Russia, and I don't know what an artistic taste they have, but I believe it doesn't mean that you have a right to judge a whole country.

[7upMan]

@MT: Nah, I don't think Briareos meant to be insulting. Read again:

 

... people I know are quick to dismiss uninteresting work with cold words and always tell things as they are, instead of spending hours finding word that appease everyone.

 

There's a fundamental difference between the Eastern and Western view of things. Read some of the criticisms to SH's Winter Harvest. Most forum members go out of their way to wrap their negative criticism into nice words, saying that they absolutely loved the FM, but also mentioning that there were parts which they didn't enjoy as much, and all that.

 

It's an entirely different approach to turn it the other way around, saying the Winter Harvest was crap, except this or that part they liked. That sure can seem cold to folks who are not used to that, but you can rest assured that you don't have to waste time interpreting what they did say.

 

While the Western/American way to to be nice and pleasant and not hurt anyone's feelings, the Eastern/Russian way is to be frank and direct, to argue long and hard, but afterward to sit down, have сто грамм of wodka and be friends again like культурные люди.

[Briareos H]

MoroseTroll I apologise if what I wrote felt insulting, this was really not my intent. And I really do like Shadowhide for his honesty and that funny way he depreciates a lot of things including himself. 7upMan is absolutely right about what I tried to express about eastern cultures, maybe that's an over-generalisation but that's how I have been seeing things and I'm really fine with it. Much better than resorting immediately to ad hominems or trying to be everyone's friend.

 

Anyway sorry for the off-topic.

Edited September 6, 2011 by Briareos H

[Midnight]

On the topic of promotion, an idea that I've toyed around with but will probably never get time to do is creating a series of video trailers/gameplay guides for TDM.

 

The first would be a serious version of the one Happyfriar did. Something that would be only two or three minutes long, which gives a quick overview of what TDM is and what features it has, along with clips of its best missions/environments.

I've been wanting to do something like this for a while now but I don't have the cash to buy video capture software to make decent in game videos at the moment. I can do a video of the in game menu, like a tutorial explaining the various things you can configure etc as well as an overview of the mod. I'd be happy to take suggestions of things people would likes to see in such a tutorial (ie texture compression settings, common issues e.g. ATI graphics settings etc).

[MoroseTroll]

7upMan, Briareos H: Ok, ok, I got it: the West, the East, and the difference of expression.

[Bikerdude]

you know, I would have though this thread would have died off way before now, but its like some kind of un-killable beast..

[Shadowhide]

Eastern/Russian way is to be frank and direct, to argue long and hard, but afterward to sit down, have сто грамм of wodka and be friends again like культу рные люди.

i gonna go and drink wodka with bear (there is alot bears on the streets)

[nbohr1more]

i gonna go and drink wodka with bear (there is alot bears on the streets)

 

Of all the things you've posted with some intent to illicit humor, this one is the winner