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Obsttorte presents: Let's Map TDM


Obsttorte

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This is great, thank you so much for taking the time to do this. As someone with very little experience in mapping I have been learning how to use Dark Radiant over the past few weeks and its been a struggle since there aren't too many tutorials available. Danke schoen :)

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Methinks this is a great service to the community. Thanks.

 

At least watching your video made me itching to get back onto my WIP.

 

The video could be even better with english narration, but I understand it is not your native language, although your writing seems impeccable.

 

Howsabout recording first, then watching your recording again while speaking the audio commentary? Then mix the audio track and the recording. You could pause and think about the stuff you say.

 

You had an interesting mapping technique, and I certainly learned something new.

 

Thanks again!

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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The video could be even better with english narration, but I understand it is not your native language, although your writing seems impeccable.

Writing is much easier then speaking, you know ;) I've learned english for 10 years in school, but I was never in a foreign country where they speak english.

Howsabout recording first, then watching your recording again while speaking the audio commentary? Then mix the audio track and the recording.

I've tried that and the result is a bit odd to be honest. However, the main point is that I'm currently still limited in my internet traffic as I'm using an internet stick. Once the dsl I've ordered is installed (50Mbit/s, can't wait to try that out :) ), I may stick to this method.

 

Oh, and thanks for the positive feedback.

FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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This is really nice for new mappers.

 

I could only watch the first 15min, though, for two reasons:

 

1 - Video is too blurry.

 

2 - Only about 25% of what you say appears as subtitles. There's a lot of German going on between the subtitles, and I feel I'm missing important stuff.

 

When the subject of starting a new map comes up on the forum, I like to suggest that mappers start with the second prefab in prefabs->Misc. This gives you the LeakTest entity as entity #1, which is a lot easier to move around the map than the player start when looking for internal leaks. Folks might be reluctant to move the player start around. And it gives you ambient_world, all the weapons and tools, the objectives entity, the shop entity, and a master key, useful for unlocking doors when alpha testing.

 

That having been said, I realize the intent of this was to show how you map, and it's interesting from that perspective.

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Only about 25% of what you say appears as subtitles. There's a lot of German going on between the subtitles, and I feel I'm missing important stuff.

There is a lot of mumbling in between. From the context, all important statements have been translated. In difference to the way I speak I kept the translation pretty short. So if there is something missing it's not intentional. In addition, it is not a word-by-word translation. But maybe some of the german speaking community mappers can tell me if I've missed something in the translation that is important for the understanding, as I'm may not aware of it. Sorry.

 

Regarding the prefab: I know it exists but I never used it. And I'm not sure whether it is a good idea to suggest this to newbie mappers. Everybody should learn how to set up things like adding inventory items, weapons, ambient light etc...

 

That having been said, I realize the intent of this was to show how you map, and it's interesting from that perspective.

Except that I don't mapped modular by now. At least not a full mission. But yes, maybe I'm doing some things in a way that makes it efficient. Although I would also like to see how other mappers are doing the stuff. For example I would like to see how Bikerdude does his detail passes, or how Melan attempts building street sections, because I was not able to replicate that by now.

 

Video is too blurry.

I know. This will change once my internet connection stands.

FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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Thanks for providing this to the community, Obsttorte! It's always interesting watching other people's workflow. I learned a lot and look forward to the rest of the series.

 

The only thing I would recommend is to leave the subtitles on the screen for a bit longer :)

 

When you're watching the cursor and selections in DR and have to read the subtitles, its difficult to catch everything so that leads to pausing the video every time a subtitle pops up and digesting it with what's been visually presented, and at times rewinding and then skipping back to where you were, and the stop/start/stop/start works against the continuity of the presentation. It would be great to sit back and watch it and read and take it all in without having to constantly be doing something distracting like pause/unpause, rewind, etc., and I think if the subtitles were on screen for a couple more seconds this would be negate having to pause and skip around.

 

I don't know how others feel about this, its just my two cents. I'll watch avidly either way! I wish you could pump out one of these per day. :P Great stuff!

 

Thanks for taking the time to put this together.

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Great idea Obsttorte, and really well done. I'd never grasped the paste-from-brush method of texturing a patch but it'll be in my toolkit from now on :-) I agree completely with Lux re the subtitles: that was going to be my only bit of feedback too. I had to backtrack a lot to take in both the message and the image. Looking forward to your next!

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Thanks a lot for the feedback :)

 

Regarding the subtitles: I never thought about that. Thanks for pointing to me. I will make the subs in the next part stay longer.

 

However, they are just a temporary solution. Once I have unlimited upload space I will upload a synchronized version in addition to the german one as suggested by Sotha. This should make things easier. (Than I can also upload them in HD, I'm scaling them down due to my limits).

 

I'm glad you liked it, and if it helps you improve your mapping technique, I'm even more happy.

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FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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I'm glad you liked it, and if it helps you improve your mapping technique, I'm even more happy.

Well done, and a big thank you from me. Very interesting seeing how other mappers work. Thanks again. :D

Quando omni flunkus moritati" ("When all else fails, play dead")

Halloween Contest Winner 2014

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And here we go :)

 

Episode 2:

  • Creating simple supports
  • The storage rooms in the cellar
  • taking gameplay into consideration while mapping

I've tried avoiding the sync problem by recording the video in several parts, but that did not help :( I guess I have to switch the recording software.

 

However, I hope you enjoy it anyways. I've made the subs a bit longer (in terms of how long they are shown) this time. Hope this avoids english speaking persons from having to relook parts of the video.

 

 

The next part is ready so far. I need to create the subtitles for it. However, my conection was limited although I'm below set limits. This happened last month alreadys and I don't know how long they need to fix that. (Just received the note that I'm back on :) ) Therefore I don't know when I can upload the video exactly. (This evening or tomorrow, depending on how long the subs take).

 

My broadband connection get's installed on thursday. So you can look forward to some hd videos over the easter time :)

 

Epsiode 3 shows me implementing a numberwheel machine that behaves like the one in the warehouse mission from Thief: The Metal Age. It is also self-synchronizing with all other devices, so that all other numberwheel machines show the same number.

 

I explain the (very short) code in the video. Hope that gets you people try to take a look at scripting. If you are interested I could make a "How to script in TDM"-video for you guys.

 

I'm currently finishing the outer yard and want to explain the following topics in Episode 4:

  • creating custom dirt decals (extremely simple, really)
  • creating custom material shaders (in this case dirty, translucent, reflecting glass)
  • maybe some points about stim and response
  • and if I have time left I explain how to create conversations and in game cutscenes

What's next?

 

What I definetely want to explain is how to use my automap approach (see Obstipedia linked below) and gimp to create automaps in the style of Thief: The Dark Project very fast and easy in TDM. In addition I want to show you how to create custom objects and arrows. And I'll show you how to use script objects to manipulate the behaviour of the ai.

 

Have a nice day everybody :) :) :) :)

  • Like 3

FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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Thanks. The third epsiode is recorded. If I am able to finish the subs today, I can upload it this evening. :)

FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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I never really contemplated mapping nearly completely in patches. I realize that generally only 1 surface of a brush is even used like in the case of a room but I never thought about using patches for the majority of the interior. It actually opens up a lot of ideas.

 

I am curious why on the seam hiding 'pillars' in the hallways you made the bottom section a brush. Just for the top surface? And why didn't you use a caulk texture for them first and then just texture the top, front, and sides. Is there a reason?

Edited by Lux
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I am curious why on the seam hiding 'pillars' in the hallways you made the bottom section a brush

Only two sides are not visible and I want to make it look like a cube. Using a brush was the faster option in that case so I take it.

And why didn't you use a caulk texture for them first and then just texture the top, front, and sides. Is there a reason?

As said there are only two sides that gets drawn and are not needed. You do not neccessarely have to optimize everything til the end. But for comparision, on a wall I only need one of six surfaces.

 

However, You could also build these modules out of brushes. Especially in inside arrays you will not really notice any performance differences. I just wanted to mention that I could also use a patch instead (as I believe most mappers, especially if they are not advanced in their skills, use brushes mainly), as I only needed one side.

 

On another note I use caulked brushes mainly as sealing geometry. So using it only in that regard makes it easier for me to oversee the whole scene.

 

To sum it up, in most cases I stick to the method that is the fastest one, as long as that is not causing any negative side effects ;)

  • Like 1

FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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Episode 3:

 

In this episode I created a numberwheel lock that works like that one in the warehouse mission in Thief: The Metal Age. I hope you like it.

 

 

From now on the videos are in a high quality. :)

 

This may be the last episode with subtitles. For the comming ones I plan to synchronize them, so there will be one version with me speaking german as well as one with me speaking english. I hope that this makes it more appealing to the non-german members around here. As I've already uploaded some videos on YouTube in english, it would be nice to get some feedback regarding my english speaking. Is everything understandable? Should I speak slower? etc... Would be of great help.

 

This video also contains a large scripting part. This means I'm talking alot about the script I made here. The script itself is rather short. However, I hope this will motivate some of you guys to take a look at scripting. If you are interested I can also make a tutorial video about that topic if you watn. Just post here.

 

Are there other things you want me to show? Just post and I will see if it suits the mission. You can also post ideas about scenes/story etc.. for this mission if you like, as I did not shape that part out yet. I have an idea of the objectives (as you may expect something that hasn't been done in TDM before). But I'm also open minded to your suggestions.

 

And now. Enjoy the watch. :)

 

 

 

Your Obsttorte.

FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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I checked out your channel and "tut1 hq" is the only video you have posted with English commentary, correct? It is actually really really good as far as your English is concerned.

 

The only issue that I can see from that video is the quality of the microphone or audio card which you are using. It is very "down a tube" sounding. As in, it sounds like the audio is getting closer and further away nearly constantly and similar to what a flanger sound effect sounds like is applied to the audio. This is much worse in the "tut1 hq" video.

 

I'm sure you are not applying any audio sound effects to it though which is why I say its the audio card/microphone quality.

 

The flanger effect sound is similar in your current videos in German however there isn't the further away/closer thing going on which makes the audio much easier to understand. You can still hear in current videos some background "tunnel" like audio but its not nearly as audible as in the tut1 hq video, though I think that was one of your first efforts to record voice.

 

So the microphone is picking up ambient noise BUT in the current videos the audio is definitely much improved over the tut1 hq video audio.

 

My recommendation would be to use an add-in sound card first and foremost and a decent microphone if you're planning on doing a lot of this. For the microphone, something with noise canceling built in.

 

If you're only planning to do the occasional video here and there I think you are okay for the time being.

 

Just keep doing what you're doing in these last 3 tutorial videos. When you speak you are keeping your mouth the same distance from the mic and providing a consistent experience. Your English is really good for a native German speaker so on that front you're doing very well!

 

Provided you keep a consistent mouth-to-mic distance when you're speaking, everything is clearly audible.

 

Love these videos and really appreciate what you're doing! Thanks! :D

Edited by Lux
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In the tut1_hq video I used a 5€ microphone. So I had to hold it in one hand while using the other hand to control what I am doing. And for some actions I had to lay down the mic. That's what was causing this bad quality.

 

As I was not very satisfied with this I bought myself a headset. However, as I do not play multiplayer games or similar I decided to buy a one that is not too expensive but provides a relatively good quality. However, as I am living in the midst of the city and have a building site right in front of my flat, I can not avoid every background noise. I will take a look on whether I am able to tweak this a bit more.

 

Regarding my english I have learned it for ten years in school, but I never was in the state of having to talk in that language to a native english speaker. In addition I have an accent which sometimes causes even german people to not understand me even if I am speaking german (no joke). So I wasn't sure whether my prononciation makes it possible for english speakers to understand me clearly, and subtitles may be the better option.

 

But your statement encourages me a lot. So I guess I just try it, and if it is too bad, I can also add subtitles to the english languaged videos.

 

I really hope that maybe some more people will watch this and may post requests on what they want to see. And I hope that other experienced mappes may try out something similar. We have a lot of talented folks here, which other mappers could learn a lot from. And the more we share our knowledge, the more TDM will benefit me thinks.

 

add-in sound card

I don't know that terminology. Do you mean a sound card that is installed on the motherboard?

FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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This is a fantastic idea Orbsttote and I love it.

 

Lux means an add on card or a separate sound card from the one on the Motherboard. Either a usb or pci/pcie sound card, Or just a suggestion- good quality usb headsets with built in microphones usually use their own built in sound processors and are of high quality and maybe would allow you to keep your hands free.

 

PS. Congratulations:)

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As far as the add-in sound card goes, IMO you can hold off on it because as I said earlier, the audio in these last 3 videos is great with your new headset mic and a consistent mic-mouth distance.

 

Great stuff in this 3rd video. The scripting seems to be pretty standard C++ scripting as far as I can see, as I've not dabbled in TDM scripting before. I'm not an experienced C++ scripter but I did have a C++ class at university and did get an "A" in the class so everything you're doing does make sense to me and the logic is clear.

 

I would recommend anyone that is interested in scripting for TDM to at least read some C++ primer stuff on the web or pick up a book if they have no base knowledge. I can imagine some people find it overwhelming and I would think that would go a long way to help bridge their understanding of how a script is functioning and how things are being stored and used.

 

I didn't completely understand the final result of the video with the number pad presses spinning all 4 wheels. I would think that the first button press would change the first wheel, the second button press would change the second wheel and so on until you've entered 4 numbers.

 

Something that would be handy would be a button with a " * " or "R" on it that would reset the panel to 0-0-0-0. A reset button could be placed in the bottom left or bottom right of the button panel where you have 2 empty spots on either side of the "0" key.

 

The construction of the patchwork/brushwork for the panel was great to watch. How you manipulate patches so quickly and the paste-projected texture work was also very insightful to someone just starting out. Particularly when you textured the sides of the metal casing with the round top and bottom.

 

Moving and manipulating the brush texture to stretch it and make it fit the patchwork you were paste-projecting to was very interesting. Prior to this video I didn't realize that texture detail's global position in the map affected how the texture would be projected on to the patch.

 

Before this I was only aware that it "straightened" out twisted textures on patches and after this video it now makes perfect sense!

 

Since the gold colored decoration on the top of the original panel came from a prefab, I just thought you were going to revert the original model and copy those things over to the new box. It was very insightful to watch you build that tubular curved patch geometry from scratch though. Great stuff.

 

Excellent video as always, lots of stuff in there for sure. While watching you can feel the brain melt going on inside your head because of the massive amount of information, things being covered, and the techniques used. Definitely great reference material and another tool in the tool box for any mapper.

 

I'm interested to see how you tie in the floor/ceiling sealing caulk brushes in the map from video 1 & 2 and how you go about sealing up the map space though I'm sure that will get covered in time.

 

This is a great series you have here. I can't say it enough. :D Thanks!

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