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Level design lessons from Thief: the Dark Project


Melan

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Great read Melan, very insightful!

 

I agree with pretty much everything there especially the varied thievery part. It's always great having to do custom objectives even if its go and fetch this or place this item here etc because it breaks up the gameplay and can introduce some great unforgettable moments.

 

Hopefully 2016 will bring some more missions like that :)

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I think it's relevant to note the pecking order of priorities. Popular & official word is TDP's first focus was the story arc, and other elements built off that. TMA's focus was varied sneaking scenarios and gameplay. And TDS's focus was varied environments. You can tell from the character of each game how the pieces fell together I think, e.g., in how the meetings went when they were actually scripting out each mission. They were more deliberately engineered maybe. FMs tend to be more organically & sometimes haphazardly grown off a few ideas.

 

I guess the punchline there is, even though the focus changed, you could tell the games were created with a lot of thought put into their focus. There were reasons things were put together, not just thrown together, and it makes the missions really stand out.

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What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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Well written Melan.

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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The Dark Project had a certain magic that I haven't seen in any games since. Thanks for trying to explain it in mapping terms! I hope I can recapture that in some form in mission/s of my own! :)

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My Fan Missions:

   Series:                                                                           Standalone:

Chronicles of Skulduggery 0: To Catch a Thief                     The Night of Reluctant Benefaction

Chronicles of Skulduggery 1: Pearls and Swine                    Langhorne Lodge

Chronicles of Skulduggery 2: A Precarious Position              

Chronicles of Skulduggery 3: Sacricide

 

 

 

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Wow that was really good to read. I loved how you described the elements on concrete examples and how you took us to a nostalgic recapture of some really exciting events back in the day of The Dark Project. Thank you very much for that! :)

 

Hopefully more people can give their two cents on this topic, since I really find it interesting to get you guys thoughts on this.

"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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Great points indeed. Work vs the worth is a big thing in loot too. When in so many modern games hide easy loot under the stairway it just isn't that satisfying. Things that made you think to attain the bling. Like that climb from the balcony to the wall, to grab a painting in the Great Room that requires you to mind your footwork. Or a certain amount of spelunking and trap avoidance that proves you an exceptional jumper.

 

And good lord I so dearly miss the mission that's not the mission you thought it was at all. To explain more, Thief on so many occasions launched you into a mission that you gave you an in depth briefing and made you confident. Then it deviated quickly off the start, and every move afterward becomes a desperate act to improvise. I miss when I wasn't sure of the content or where the mission was going. In short, predictability kills a stealth game.

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Modeler galore & co-authors literally everything

 

 

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And good lord I so dearly miss the mission that's not the mission you thought it was at all. To explain more, Thief on so many occasions launched you into a mission that you gave you an in depth briefing and made you confident. Then it deviated quickly off the start, and every move afterward becomes a desperate act to improvise. I miss when I wasn't sure of the content or where the mission was going. In short, predictability kills a stealth game.

 

 

Just to show how opinions can differ, I feel completely the opposite. I generally dislike missions that set me up to expect a certain experience and then become an entirely different kind of game. I like the kind of missions where I DO know what to expect, so that I can plan my equipment and strategy accordingly. This is especially important in stealth games, IMO, where accurate information is a lot more valuable than FPS where you can just shoot your way out of anything.

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I see your point, but storywise I find it more interesting, when you have a twist in it and it is not just the linear red line you would expect. Of course, the map author would have to keep in mind, that the player has planned for a different situation and set the resulting situation accordingly. A "your flashbombs are useless, because you fell into a dungeon and have to avoid traps as the only challenge" is as frustrating as a "you have planned to avoid guards, but now you get trapped by script and need flashbombs to survive". But reassigning the use of equipment can be very challenging and interesting (e.g. you thought you would need water arrows for torches, but now you have to fight off mechanist walkers with them. You can avoid both, if need be, but you can still use your equipment, just in a different way).

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It's two different styles of gameplay. I guess I'm an affirmative-action oriented democrat on this. I think there should be a good balance between different (legit) styles of gameplay and tone, and when I've had too much of one, I'd like to see some of the other side represented.

 

A spectrum between tightly planned missions vs open exploration story fests is an example where I'd like to see a balance of both sides. Another example, or maybe related, is traditional stealth/thieving vs alt, experimental, or straight-up adventure gameplay.

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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I feel like Springheel. Stealth games are tactical games imho, so planning your way is really important. A nice little twist in a mission can be a good thing story-wise, but it is not something that is good per se. It really depends on how it gets used.

FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

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A nice little twist in a mission can be a good thing story-wise, but it is not something that is good per se. It really depends on how it gets used.

 

Like when Cutty died in the Cragscleft Prison for all of a sudden? I was sad and annoyed both when that happened to him :D

Or the other guy, was it Basso the Boxman? You should flee with him together on expert but (I guess since the AI doesn't have the ability to do that) you had to carry him out back the whole way instead!! Oh man, I love that game! :)

"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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As fan missions have become their own thing somewhere around 2003-2004, they started to develop their own design standards, many of them subtly different from the original games. This is fine, but sometimes, you have to go back to the roots and see how they did things.

Agree whole-heartedly to every point in this list.

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