Briarwood Manor Issue - What's causing this?

[NeonsStyle 586]

Hey,

 

Could anyone tell me what is causing this problem?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QftFWyFlIYo

[Bikerdude 3741]

Morning

 

I can see 2 things possibly happening there -

1. there is caulk on the back of the stairs - light shines through this.
2. the stairs are also causing what I am unofficially calling "vert point corruption" and by this I mean that at vert point the game is rendersome some triangles transparent (so you can see through them, or the void)

The fixes for both are

1. change the caulk to some other texture, the one already on the stairs would be the logical choice.
2. make the whole stairs FS (func_static) -
   • select all the parts of the stairs and select make FS.
   • select the new FS and clone that, then select make WS(world_spawn) and then change the texture to nodraw_wood.

[NeonsStyle 586]

Hey BD,

 

It's not caulk, it's textured all sides. I tried your func_static method as you stated it, but that didn't work either. I agree it

looks like it's a caulk issue, as you can see through the texture to the room below. It shouldn't be happening, and I am

completely befuddled as to why. It makes no sense. When I set it to func_static, cloned it, made it nodraw_solid_wood

it still happened. I even cloned it again, and made it monster clip (as AI were having trouble negotiating the stairs. Nothing

worked.

 

If you could get the time to take a look at the latest version in the TDM Downloader you will see the problem. It's worse in that

as there's a big stripe down that wall. Also nothing shows in the editor.

 

Thanks

 

Neon

[stumpy 242]

I had that on some stairs that were func_static, the only solution I found was to turn the stairs into an .ase model. I had it on six stairs that were used in an outdoor area, all the stairs were the same copied func_static but the holes in the stairs were in different positions, so one func_static became one ase model, and the holes went away.

 

it looks like something is reversing the draw circle of the triangle, eg triangles drawn clockwise are visible while triangles drawn anti-clockwise/counter-clockwise are invisible. So the engine just isn't drawing those triangles that appear as holes.

 

there's obvously nothing wrong in the way triangles are drawn in darkradiant, because the holes don't appear, and there's nothing wrong with the way the darkmod engine handles ase models as the holes don't appear in them, so the problem is probably in dmap when dmap does its T-junction join as the holes always seem to appear at that type of junction.

Edited August 11, 2018 by stumpy

[Bikerdude 3741]

If you could get the time to take a look at the latest version in the TDM Downloader you will see the problem. It's worse in that

as there's a big stripe down that wall. Also nothing shows in the editor.

Try stumpys idea, other wise I am happy to have a look at it for you.

[Springheel 4645]

Is this a new problem or was it happening when the map was first released?

[Bikerdude 3741]

Is this a new problem or was it happening when the map was first released?

Ive been seeing this type of thing a lot more since 2.06, the fix has in most cases is to convert to FS or model.

[Springheel 4645]

Ive been seeing this type of thing a lot more since 2.06, the fix has in most cases is to convert to FS or model.

 

 

If this was NOT present when the map was first released, but is appearing now, then it is an entirely new and more serious problem. If it was present when first released, then it is clear evidence the problem existed before 2.06.

[kingsal 592]

This is definitely something that popped up in 2.06. I've had the same problem, particularly with stairs or complex brush work.

 

The only thing I could do was completely rebuild the stairs or brushwork.

[kingsal 592]

Ill look around my maps and see if I can find a solid example of this- I am using the hotfix build (2.07) and I am not seeing these problems so it may have been resolved.

[NeonsStyle 586]

It wasn't a problem in version 1.6, it only showed up in 1.65 which was in TDM 2.06. Cambridge spotted it, and let me know, and since then I've been trying to fix it.

How do I convert a func_static to an ase model?

[kingsal 592]

Did you dmap 1.65 using the 2.06 build?

 

EDIT: Select your fun_static >scripts>export to .ase

Edited August 11, 2018 by kingsal

[Springheel 4645]

It wasn't a problem in version 1.6, it only showed up in 1.65 which was in TDM 2.06. Cambridge spotted it, and let me know, and since then I've been trying to fix it.

How do I convert a func_static to an ase model?

 

So just to be clear, you had that staircase in the version you released in 2.05 and it was fine, and you haven't touched anything about it since and now it has gaps in 2.06?

[Abusimplea 168]

there's obvously nothing wrong in the way triangles are drawn in darkradiant, because the holes don't appear, and there's nothing wrong with the way the darkmod engine handles ase models as the holes don't appear in them, so the problem is probably in dmap when dmap does its T-junction join as the holes always seem to appear at that type of junction.

So ensuring all faces to be quads would prevent triggering the missing tris bug?

[NeonsStyle 586]

Thanks. Yeh in TDM 2.05 and version 1.6 of the map, I never saw this problem. It's not like it's a tiny issue like in the video. In the actual 1.65 level, there's

a great black triangular stripe across that wall, so you can't really miss it. It was never there before. It was brought to my attention by Cambridge Spy.

 

I'm guessing given your responses, this might be a bug with 2.06 dmap. I'd be interested if any of you have dmapped your maps since 2.06 and seen this issue.

 

Thanks for the info on ase model Kingsal, however I converted it to func_static, then to an ASE model; now the stairs texture is missing in game;

yet the AI and I can walk up the invisible nodraw_wood worldspawn version of it. lol Puzzled why it isn't showing.

Edited August 12, 2018 by NeonsStyle

[Bikerdude 3741]

Thanks for the info on ase model Kingsal, however I converted it to func_static, then to an ASE model; now the stairs texture is missing in game;

Drop me a PM if need another set of eyes on it.

[Bikerdude 3741]

Ok so it was I thought it was, and converting the steps to FS fixed the issue -

 

Edited August 12, 2018 by Bikerdude

[Abusimplea 168]

bwm_2018-08-12_21.36.02.jpg

The lowest left step is z-fighting with the wooden beam.

[duzenko 660]

Can't repeat with svn code and current Manor map on the web.

[ERH+ 661]

Yes I had a problem with transparent triangles occouring on 2.06 dmap, while same place was fine inne previous version.

[NeonsStyle 586]

Definitely seems something has slipped into 2.06 to be causing this. Interestingly, if I func_staticd the whole

staircase with rails, the problem remains. BD looked at it, and just func_static'd the steps themselves and fixed

it. Very wierd.

 

@Duzenko, it shows up best when you get a 3/4 view of that rail. ie bottom and side. The problem does

exist with the version on the web. I'm going to release an update soon as it might be awhile before the cause

is identified in 2.06

Edited August 14, 2018 by NeonsStyle

[peter_spy 1603]

If the stairs and the wall were BSP, and stairs were touching the wall, errors probably were there due to geometry splits. You should investigate such problems with wireframe turned on.

[peter_spy 1603]

 

Yup, it's a brushwork problem. It's neither very weird, nor version related. You will get these problems with BSP. Touching or intersecting brushwork will cause splits. That's why it's better to keep BSP as simple as possible, using models for everything else.

[Bikerdude 3741]

what does BSP stand for..?

[peter_spy 1603]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_space_partitioning