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Steam Greenlight: TDM is ranked #1 atm.


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#501 chakkman

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 02:52 PM

Any news on this?



#502 Goldwell

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 03:26 AM

Any news on this?

 

No news at the moment, judging by what's going on behind the scene at the moment it looks like the team is more focussed on getting 2.06 to beta and onwards to release.

 

It'd be nice to see a steam release happen eventually but there are legal obstacles to wade through before that can become reality, this only became known to the team after the green light had gone through which is why there was a sudden stop in momentum after being greenlit.


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#503 Bikerdude

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 05:17 AM

Also Valve wernt exactly forthcoming with that bloody info untill after the fact. Which was extremely frustrating considering the amount of effort I put into getting the mod on SGL.
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#504 chakkman

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 09:58 AM

OK, thanks for the heads up. Strange that other open source games and mods get this done so quickly, but, i wouldn't know the why's, how's, and if's.



#505 HMart

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 06:37 PM

Also Valve wernt exactly forthcoming with that bloody info untill after the fact. Which was extremely frustrating considering the amount of effort I put into getting the mod on SGL.

 

Are you guy's under some agreement to not disclose this info? 



#506 demagogue

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 09:02 PM

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I don't think so. We have to form a non-profit legal entity, give an account of our IP licensing, and figure out how to use Steam code without using Steam code or get around it completely (since it can't mingle with our GPL3 code for the obvious reason its source code can't be legally released as GPL3 requires).

 

It's within the boundaries of what we can do. The planning is effectively all there already. There needs to be a champion and a sustained push maybe... Seeing the cesspool of hostility that communities are dragged down into when they get on Steam doesn't help build enthusiasm, for me anyway. But it's true that there are a lot of people we want that won't know about the game unless it goes up ... especially important as we need an influx of mappers if we want a steady flow of content coming in.

 

Long story short, we can make a push after 2.06 is out.

<cryptically> It'll be better for first-impression marketing anyway. :ph34r: </cryptically>


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#507 demagogue

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 01:13 AM

Valve is apparently opening the doors to every game for Steam submissions. But I think doesn't really change our situation as I am betting they still require that we form a legal entity, give them a report clearing our IP, and keep Steam code out of the GPL coverage, since those are legal restrictions and not content-based ones. I'm also not sure I'm really qualified to do those three things, not by myself at least. But I did say I'd look at this again after 2.06 was out...


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#508 Bikerdude

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 03:01 AM

But I did say I'd look at this again after 2.06 was out...

Thanks Dema.



#509 chakkman

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 06:17 AM

I know that i won't win a popularity contest with this post, but... when you go green on Steam in 2 years, you don't have to go Steam at all. Seriously, that's not too late, that's MUCH too late. People are graphic whores these days, and TDM is not getting any prettier with the time. The next point to consider is that pure stealth games aren't exactly very popular these days, and, i see popularity of those also heading south. Frankly, my opinion, FWIW, if you can't release TDM on Steam in the next half year or so, forget it. It's pointless. Should have been on Steam right from the start anyway, if anything.

 

Just my 2c. Do and think whatever you like about it. I don't see a point in getting TDM on Steam anymore. And, i don't blame anyone here either. Obviously, the license was the biggest issue here.


Edited by chakkman, 07 June 2018 - 06:50 AM.


#510 wesp5

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 06:47 AM

I don't see a point in getting TDM on Steam anymore.

I agree. Especially if Valve continues it's open door policy by letting more and more shovelware onto Steam! You might rather want to talk with GOG if you want to find a bigger audience. They included my Unofficial Patch with their version of Bloodlines without me having to form a legal entity or similar stuff...



#511 demagogue

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 06:54 AM

I think it was more just a matter of a lot of people only find games by searching on Steam, and if you're someone really out of the loop, you're going to trust a Steam link to a free game and not necessarily a link that looks like http://www.thedarkmo...wnload-the-mod/ , which chances are you'd never have a way to find anyway. It's for the extra people in our target demographic to find us, not really for the masses of people that'd never care anyway.

 

That said, I was never the biggest Steam proponent myself, just because the culture can be kind of toxic and we have such a good community here. So I wondered if we got an influx of people on our forums that are expecting it to be like the Steam forums that might be a drag. Well that and we're not really organized in the formal way Steam wants a team to be organized, with a board of directors and annual reports, etc... even aside from the GPL and IP stuff. And there's something to be said for keeping that kind of informality as I actually think it's important for our team and community culture, and I also worry a little about formalizing changing the culture around here too. All the team members are also really just fans in the same boat anybody else is, just they've studied up on coding or modeling or whatever it is, but the message is truly anybody can be a valuable contributor if they're like-minded with our ethos and apply themselves. When you have a list of board members and a set of by-laws it sort of plays against that ethos, although as a non-profit the board is duty bound to act in the community's best interest, too, so you can see it as part of that ethos as well.

 

I recognize that my mixed feelings doesn't make me the best champion for this lol.


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#512 chakkman

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 07:02 AM

 

That said, I was never the biggest Steam proponent myself, just because the culture can be kind of toxic and we have such a good community here. So I wondered if we got an influx of people on our forums that are expecting it to be like the Steam forums that might be a drag. Well that and we're not really organized in the formal way Steam wants a team to be organized, with a board of directors and annual reports, etc... even aside from the GPL and IP stuff. 

 

Is it really like that? I mean, there are so many free games on Steam, which i can't imagine to be properly organized like that… the latest i could think of: gRally and Teeworlds. And, Teeworlds is even open source. Either they gave a damn about Steam's guidelines/rules, or, it really doesn't have to be THAT proper.


Edited by chakkman, 07 June 2018 - 07:06 AM.


#513 demagogue

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 07:27 AM

I think they gave a damn about (1) getting paid (gRally) or (2) they have over a million users that are very insistent they get this game on Steam and were banging on the door (Teeworlds), and setting up an entity, in our case a non-profit, isn't really all that proper, just a few fees and a few duties like annual reports, and for the most part it can be an invisible thing in the background and you can go about your business, which is how I think most indie teams like that treat it. I wasn't worried about that part really. It's just it can change the culture too, at least in the case of a team like ours. I think a lot of the most gutter-level games out there were made by either an individual or two or three people, who already had a working relationship and making a partnership out of it doesn't really change their culture with each other. I think it's different if it's a larger team with a lot more people involved & coming and going and having opinions. It's actually just one little point though, and far from the most important one; I don't want to make too much out of it.


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#514 chakkman

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 07:41 AM

Ok. I think that is vastly opposing any kind of community growth though. After all, it would be out of your guys' hand then, in which way the mod or community develops then. So, it probably really would be best if Steam wouldn't  be available on Steam, GOG, or any other site which might put more attention to this game.


Edited by chakkman, 07 June 2018 - 07:41 AM.


#515 Springheel

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 07:51 AM

If the Steam thing was going to happen it would have by now.  It's an uphill climb for reasons Dem has nicely summarized, and no one behind the scenes is motivated to push that hard.



#516 nbohr1more

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 08:03 AM

Heh.

I'm not sure how true this is but I've heard that Valve completely throws out the rules for anything "VR".

That may mean that Cabalistic's VR fork gets on Steam first :P
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#517 Anderson

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 08:07 AM

 

 

That said, I was never the biggest Steam proponent myself, just because the culture can be kind of toxic and we have such a good community here. So I wondered if we got an influx of people on our forums that are expecting it to be like the Steam forums that might be a drag. Well that and we're not really organized in the formal way Steam wants a team to be organized, with a board of directors and annual reports, etc... even aside from the GPL and IP stuff. And there's something to be said for keeping that kind of informality as I actually think it's important for our team and community culture, and I also worry a little about formalizing changing the culture around here too. All the team members are also really just fans in the same boat anybody else is, just they've studied up on coding or modeling or whatever it is, but the message is truly anybody can be a valuable contributor if they're like-minded with our ethos and apply themselves. When you have a list of board members and a set of by-laws it sort of plays against that ethos, although as a non-profit the board is duty bound to act in the community's best interest, too, so you can see it as part of that ethos as well.

 

I recognize that my mixed feelings doesn't make me the best champion for this lol.

 

Why do yo say that? Many mods and free games on Steam are indie things. Most important is, if any such information is required you need to bring up a person who can reliably answer to any questions Steam might have and keep the boat afloat. After all, the correspondence between Steam and the dev members of TDM is private.

 

On another note, the Steam group of TDM is invite-only...


Edited by Anderson, 07 June 2018 - 08:50 AM.

 "I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

 

 

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

 


#518 wesp5

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 09:02 AM

 

Most important is, if any such information is required you need to bring up a person who can reliably answer to any questions Steam might have and keep the boat afloat.

Well, one big problem I see with TDM on Steam or GOG is that while the team might feel responsible for the main game and can answer any questions about that, what about the authors of all the seperate missions?



#519 Anderson

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 09:05 AM

Well, one big problem I see with TDM on Steam or GOG is that while the team might feel responsible for the main game and can answer any questions about that, what about the authors of all the seperate missions?

 

Anyone who wants to help remedy problems with any mission can address their concerns on the corresponding forums in comments, forums here or on those services.


 "I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

 

 

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

 


#520 wesp5

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 09:31 AM

 

Anyone who wants to help remedy problems with any mission can address their concerns on the corresponding forums in comments, forums here or on those services.

That's not what I meant. I meant, imagine a mission author creates something unsuitable for Steam. Who would be sued, the TDM team itself?



#521 Anderson

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 11:01 AM

That's not what I meant. I meant, imagine a mission author creates something unsuitable for Steam. Who would be sued, the TDM team itself?

 

What is unsuitable for Steam that wouldn't be unsuitable for TDM? You probably mean something IP-related. In that case FM's just don't get listed officially in the mission downloader/browser page. But you may install it manually if you wish, just like any beta FM.


 "I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

 

 

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

 


#522 wesp5

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 11:27 AM

 

In that case FM's just don't get listed officially in the mission downloader/browser page.

Which would mean that each new FM has to be played by the TDM team to check if it somehow violates Steam rules...



#523 Anderson

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 01:08 PM

Which would mean that each new FM has to be played by the TDM team to check if it somehow violates Steam rules...

 

They do get tested and all that jazz.


 "I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

 

 

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

 


#524 Judith

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 01:22 PM

Yeah, but just see how many pages has the thread with 2.06 issues. Now this is only for users who registered and posted their replies here. Now imagine having to manage the same problem on Steam. Everyone who plays PC games, has login on Steam, and can post on any game-related forums. You'd need several people to manage technical issues and answer to people on Steam, and such thread would have tens of pages.


Edited by Judith, 07 June 2018 - 01:23 PM.


#525 wesp5

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 01:27 PM

 

They do get tested and all that jazz.

Really? I mean by the TDM team before they are released?






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