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I tried the beta yesterday in the Training Mission. The new frob system is very nice. It's very easy now to pick up a body (obviously), and, the manipulation of limbs is easy as well (although it will surely take some time for me to get used to it, simply because I'm so used to the old system). Not so excited about some other changes. The leaning, for example, while improving the viewing angle of the player, feels a bit unrealistic. I know, the new system is closer to the one in the original game, but, I don't know if any of you tried to lean in real life. No way any human being could lean so wide, unless it's tied to a rubber band. I get it, gameplay isn't always about realism (actually, in most cases, it isn't), but, I think a game shouldn't feel too arcade-y, and, this definitely does feel arcade. And, I always liked Dark Mod for its rather realistic movement. Same with the new mantling. I don't know what you felt was wrong with the mantling before, but, this new, faster system just feels arcade. The mantling was already very quick compared to what a human is capable in real life, but, the new system even exaggerates that. Yes, it feels smooth and fast, but, I prefer a bit of realism. So, yeah, rather a 1 out of 3 out of the systems I mentioned which I feel like is an improvement. The leaning and mantling, I rather consider setback. I think this is, in general, a bit "bleeding edge" in terms of gameplay changes. I really didn't feel like mantling and leaning needed an improvement, for example, and, it might make a change for missions which were designed with the original gameplay.

I've found a: Also, is there a key for the first door you come to after you leave your apartment?

Overall, your pack seems almost perfect to me!) Maybe it would be possible to add a frob outline like in the unofficial patch. I only play with the Steam Deck, and using the console on it is very difficult. After all, each button on it needs to be configured separately. Maybe if someone suggests what I can directly configure in the config, it will completely solve my problem. I haven't played many missions yet, and the ones I remember are the two standard ones and "No Honor Among Thieves." There are a lot of items in these missions. Adding new skills has become frustrating for me because it takes a long time to find the right item in my inventory, and this happens every time. I also wanted to say that I haven't found a proper use for the OBSERVATION, COMBINATION, DISTRACTION, and ALTERATION skills. I play on the highest difficulty and don't feel like it's too hard for me, and all these skills, in my understanding, are designed to simplify the gameplay. In theory, MANIPULATION should also be on this list, but I found a use for it.) But no matter where or how I use OBSERVATION, I always see blackness. Maybe it depends on the map? The main problem is still the inventory. I would like it to have fewer unused items.) I even throw away picked up books and scrolls after reading them to keep them from cluttering up my inventory. I also installed the original Thief games, and it feels like they have a lot fewer items. That's how it is.

I had this discussion a lot with my Bloodlines Unofficial Patch and honestly, nobody really knows what an unofficial patch can or should do, because a) it's unofficial and b) many developers add or change features with their patches (just look at CP2077 2.0 or TDM itself). I kept the name because it's similar to the other patches I do and does not stray as far away from the original game as e.g. Snatcher's Mod. Also to me, being able to extinguish candle flames but not oil flames, or enemies getting magically immune just by noticing the player are bugs. If not of the pure computer gameplay kind, then certainly of the consistent world building kind ;).

It occurred to me that, by now, this package goes well beyond mere bugfixes by including a range of gameplay changes (i.e. adding the ability to frob-extinguish oil candles, which isn't a bug that was patched). Maybe players would have a better idea of what this package does if it had a more fitting name, similar to how Snatcher calls his work a modpack? In other communities the term "unofficial patch" is typically associated with collections of community fixes to bugs that exist in the core game and were never addressed by the devs. Most players would therefore expect an "unofficial patch" to provide them the same experience as originally intended by the devs, but without technical problems.

@snatcher I understand that when you feel your work doesn't live up to your goals that you don't want it out in the wild advertising your own perceived shortcomings but that leads to a troubling dilemma of authors who are never satisfied with their work offering fleeting access to their in-progress designs then rescinding them or allowing them to be lost. When I was a member of Doom3world forums, I would often see members do interesting experiments and sometimes that work would languish until someone new would examine it and pickup the torch. This seemed like a perfectly viable system until Doom3world was killed by spambots and countless projects and conceptual works were lost. I guess what I am trying to say is that mods don't need to be perfect to be valuable. If they contain some grain of a useable feature they might be adapted by mission authors in custom scenarios. They might offer instructive details that others trying to achieve the same results can examine. It would be great if known compelling works were kept somewhere safe other than via forum attachments and temporary file sharing sites. I suppose we used to collect such things in our internal SVN for safe keeping but even that isn't always viable. If folks would rather not post beta or incomplete mods to TDM's Moddb page, perhaps they would consider creating their own Moddb page or allow them to be added to my page for safe keeping. Please don't look at this as some sort of pressure campaign or anything. I fully understand anyone not willing to put their name next to something they aren't fully happy with. As a general proviso, ( if possible \ permitted ) I just want to prevent the loss of some valuable investigations and formative works. The end of Doom3world was a digital apocalypse similar to the death of photobucket. It is one of my greatest fears that TDM will become a digital memory with only the skeletons of old forum threads at the wayback archive site.

Congrats on the release! Remember to check ThiefGuild as well as the DarkFate forums (via Google Translate) for additional feedback.

My first thought would have been to use a rat or spider babby on the grounds that it's small.

Sure! My first draft for a wiki article "Lightgem" would look like this: " [[File:Hud.jpg|right|thumb|The lightgem is shown as part of the [[The_Dark_Mod_Gameplay#HUD_(Heads-Up_Display)|HUD]]:<br/>2. A breath indicator when underwater<br/>3. The lightgem itself<br/>4. A health indicator.<br/>Two wings flank the lightgem indicating if the player is crouching.]] The '''lightgem''' is a light indigator on the [[The_Dark_Mod_Gameplay#HUD_(Heads-Up_Display)|HUD]] and an important part of [[The Dark Mod Gameplay]]. The lightgem itself indicates how visible the player is. The visibility is based on how much light is hitting the player, but also depends on whether you are crouched, moving, have a weapon drawn, or being under water. The wings on either side of the gem indicates when the player is crouching. Below the lightgem is a health indicator. When the player is injured, a small red bar appears below the lightgem. The bar shows how much health you have left and decreases from right to left. Health potions and various types of food will replenish health. The bar remains visible until the health is fully restored. Above the lightgem is a breath indicator. When the player is under water, a small blue bar appears above the lightgem. The bar shows how much air you have left and decreases from right to left. When the bar runs out, you'll begin to take damage. Surfacing or using a Breath Potion will restore your air bar. The lightgem is an object that the player always carries and is not visible in the [[inventory]]. A user can disable the lightgem and the wings in Settings - Gameplay - General - Hide Lightgem. The health indicator and breath indicator will remain visible. [[Category:Equipment]] " (With the caveat that I would need to use the preview-functionality to fix any formatting errors I may have made before publishing it.) I would also * link "BREATH INDICATOR", "LIGHTGEM", and "HEALTH INDICATOR" from "The_Dark_Mod_Gameplay#HUD_(Heads-Up_Display)" to the new article "Lightgem". * create "health indicator" redirecting to "lightgem" ("#redirect[[lightgem]]") * create "breath indicator" redirecting to "lightgem" I registered on The Dark Mod Bugtracker on 29 December and I have since reported 68 issues from a personal log of issues that I had assembled during hours of testing TDM 2.11. The reports are not perfect, but I think they show my intentions are good. I understand the reluctance, especially if there have been incidents of spammers on the wiki, but as an open source project relying on volunteer work it is also important to keep a low threshold for contributing to the product. If I'm not up to par, you'll discover it quickly. Or, rather, you would have already discovered it in the Bugtracker.

A couple more: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21739-resolved-allow-mantling-while-carrying-a-body/ https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22211-feature-proposal-new-lean-for-tdm-212/ https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22198-feature-proposal-frob-to-use-world-item/ https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22249-212-auto-search-bodies/

Just curious, based on this discussion: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/19239-soft-r-gamma/?p=427350

Kinda wish we could sort it by author/plot. As well as order of completion (which one I did last, which one I did first), and order in which they should be completed ("Sequel to [mission] play that one first and come back here")

I played it twice. Maybe it's because I finished first Dishonored not long before playing for the second time, with clean hands, and sought another thrill of picking open a safe while Target is roaming the same room. The first time, I did run around killing guards, but eventually I couldn't get past a mission and quit. The second time, I just threw my hat in the wind and used WeMod. Once you're invisible to everything, ghosting isn't an issue =| Are there some cool tricks in this game? Yeah. I liked seeing my hands (a real kink at this point) fumble for a hidden switch, or smoothly yoink purses off guards. Focus was cheating, really, but I didn't hate it exactly. I just thought that this is Tomb Raider reboot/Arkham all over again. Hub? Nice, shame nothing we collect mean anything. Vendors out in the "open"? Hey, that feels like I'm actually in that world. What I hated was the ending. Or that Chase sequence. Loading screens masked as "cutscenes"? Ugh... The plot holes not helping either. But the worst thing are "Hidden" areas in the overworld. I think even with the guide, I haven't found all of them. But at least I finished it.

I felt like an absolute dunce, when I started the mission for the first time... Because, the note confused me. I thought that I was supposed to complete the task on the note and then return to this door, it will be open I'll talk to an NPC or something and will progress further. So I spent several minutes looking for a door outside, and finding none. I thought - maybe I need to use the window, it's partially open, I bet I can squeeze through it. So I did, and fell out of the map, whereupon I saw the rest of the map and realized that the note was slipped under MY front door. Had to restart =D I enjoyed the mission, but I also missed the painting. I should've tried "the Number" right away. The sneaky boi was great, I wish we had encounters like that on some occasion. It's such a novelty IMO. I wasn't attempting the Ghost so eventually I was fed up with this guard and used my gas arrow, then... this happened. I enjoyed the final stretch, but my immersion was broken a little, because the area where we get a new mission had a missing wall and a floating tree, for some reason. Great map, and mission. PS: I realize that they probably just drop them, but taking first mission into the account, I can't help but think that people eat fingers with rings on them.

I'm guessing there's a way to do that. Then back to DDS to distribute. That process would still cause an extra generation of quality loss, but at least you'd have a TGA in hand, for iterative editing without cumulative losses. But maybe first ask long-time TDMers to hunt for archived TGAs.

At first I thought it was some wild precision bug but it looks like the skin might be nonsolid somehow and SteveL's change made the nonsolid attribute work? Either that or skin detection is somehow borked in this map. Feel free to edit the map, I'm no expert mapper but I might be able to perform some workaround by manipulating the entity. Edit: I fixed it with the following change: // entity 4 { "classname" "atdm:mover_door" "name" "atdm_mover_door_8" "lock_picktype" "-" "lock_pins" "0" "locked" "1" "solid" "1" "model" "atdm_mover_door_8" "origin" "710 -248 2050" "rotate" "0 90 0" "snd_close" "door_shut_06" "snd_open" "door_open_08" "used_by" "Balcony_door_keey" // "skin" "door_007_1" // primitive 0 Will upload the fix to the mission database. I don't see anything wrong with the door_007_1 skin but I would advise testing it in-game before using it going forward until this is fully sorted. Edit 2: The updated mission is now available in the mission database. Feel free to offer other fixes to this mission as long as they do not: Change visuals Change gameplay design ( Any purely bugged things that the mission author acknowledges "needs fixing" such as keys that are inaccessible or critical items that fall through surfaces when touched, etc can be fixed by any mapper and submitted for validation by the team. )

You can confert it to TGA first before editting?

Ever since I worked on "Chalice of Kings" with Bikerdude, I have wanted to get flame particles with new particle glares into the core mod. My reasoning was that the candles have glares and the un-glared torches look mismatched. This proposal was met with mixed reactions, so (knowing the history of TDM feature proposals...) I have created a technical demo. You may download it here: zzz_flameglare.pk4.txt (fixed) Just rename without the .txt extension at the end and place it in your Darkmod directory. Here are some screens. Using particles for this is probably the wrong way to go now that Duzenko has an emissive light feature in his branch: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/19659-feature-request-emissive-materialsvolumetric-lights/

True, but, 1. this thread is called "Western stealth FPS with Stephen Russell", and, 2. nothing you said changes anything for me. The gameplay still doesn't look like something I'd enjoy. And, if you really think this forum is cynical, then you don't visit forums much. Actually, the majority of the users are are pretty mature, unlike in other forums.

Just type the @ character, and then the first character of username (for example ‘k’ for kingsal). That will bring up an autocomplete list of users starting with that character. Keep typing, or pick the user from the list

Sorry, I didn't mean to step on your toes and to dictate the title change on you. I was merely raising concerns, as the title and beginning of this thread reads an awful lot like one of these here... Full disclosure: I haven't played your FM, yet, so maybe I didn't get the full picture. But then again, there are probably more people as clueless as me that don't get it at first either. Futhermore, you had some avatar come in and tell us about the loss of a beloved community member, wheras in myhouse.wad, it was the opposite, i.e., some random dude nobody in the community knew was gone.

It seems like more and more "thief" and "thief players" is becoming a short hand to dismiss community members earnest desire to improve the game - which happens to be a barely legally distinct "thief style" game which was made by thief fans for thief fans and is "designed to simulate the stealth gameplay of Thief". Who is the predominant player base of the game supposed to be beyond fans of the thief games? Is there some better avenue to find feedback for the game beyond this forum? FOSS and linux forums? I have seen maybe half a dozen posts from that segment. I am a thief fan, I play thief fms, my association with those games is what drives me to play and make things for this game. Are we supposed to pretend the original games are not a huge reason why most of us are here at all? TL;DR version:

Rest assured, I haven't received nothing but praise thus far. Most of the constructive criticism about this FM's design arose during beta testing, and Dragofer in particular gave me a very useful write-up about what can be improved next time. Some examples being that he FM is a bit too spacious at times, its difficulty is rather low (a sentiment shared by thebigh), and the house design is a bit strange or tubular as a result of the FM's more linear nature. It's all been invaluable feedback as I continue to learn DR, and I intend to write up a post-first FM release retrospective near the end of this week going over what I've learned. I'm quite overjoyed about all the positive feedback I've received thus far, but that's not because I'm afraid of criticism, rather I was afraid of how a less traditional mission would be received by the community. I wanted to make something a bit weird with my first mission, and I was wary of how a short, linear mission with a limited player toolset would be viewed. Fortunately, the community has been very welcoming and accepting of weird little ideas, and I intend to take what I've learned into my next project right after my eyes stop burning from all those late-night Dark Radiant sessions. I hope you enjoy the FM, Chakkman!

Hello sneaksie taffers! I'm very pleased to release a new map, named Down and Out on Newford Road. Our kleptomaniac protagonist has found himself without his gear after a job gone wrong and is now stuck in a strange part of town with few friends to call on. It's a smallish-to-medium city exploration map with several intricate parts to deal with. In keeping with the "connections" theme there are usually multiple ways in and out of the various City sections. This is a Christmas Connections contest entry. For my connections to previous missions I have chosen two of the oldest missions in the archive: The silly Builders from the Outpost north of Bridgeport are making another attempt to manufacture a golden holy symbol. Has the Bishop learned his lesson from last time? ...because the one man still willing to talk to you wants you to steal it before he'll help you out. This contact is none other than Hamill, the fence from the first FM of them all. Thieves with a talent for exploration and an eye for hidden secrets might come across a sneaksie reference to my first mission The Factory Heist. Here and there are also bits of foreshadowing for my upcoming mission, tentatively called A House Call. And of course I had to work in a tribute to the greatly missed Grayman, also findable by players with a passion for discovering secret areas. ---- ---- This mission would be much uglier, buggier, disorganised, and z-fightier without my kind beta testers: ate0ate, datiswous, JackFarmer, and Kingsal. There were also useful comments from Dragofer, wesp5, and madtaffer. I am very grateful to them for their hard work and attention to detail. ---- Here is the link to the mission: Down and Out on Newford Road --(!!TDM 2.10 v 8 BETA REQUIRED!!)-- I'm also including some promo shots for the downloader: Promos ---- Enjoy and thanks for playing!