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I looked into this. The lightgem code is quite involved as there are many factors that influence its final value. I'm mostly sure I found the final value, and when I compared the two leans at the spot shown in the video in the training mission, the new lean had an increase of roughly zero to one lightgem unit. Rarely, there would be a two unit increase. The lightgem range is 0 to 32. So, where the old lean would be 15, the new lean would be 15 or 16 (or rarely 17). Would that actually make a difference in gameplay? I don't know. Also of note, if the lean angle is increased, the lightgem value decreases at that spot with that particular lighting. The old lean angle is more than the new lean angle, so that is why there is roughly a zero to one unit difference.

I guess we've gone off-topic already... My own idea is to add gameplay info to the main menu that you can quickly skim through in every mission you play (could this be added via a plugin?) It's kind of ridicilous having to start a seperate mission and in it read a book to understand gameplay mechanics. Personally I hated the tutorial missions (what a waste of time!) in every early game including Thief.

Just finished this. Really enjoyed this mission. Nice details throughout the mission, good gameplay and the story was ok, though it did lack depth in terms of readables. I had a few issues with FPS, probably due to all the extra buildings added that are not needed or seen unless you noclip around. Same with the ship. Better visportalling will probably fix that up too. Overall an very good mission, could do with a little refinement, but I really enjoyed it. Thank you for your hard work. It was worth it.

I just want to say, kudos to @Wellingtoncrab for so steadfastly championing the pro-change side of this discussion! The people who will benefit most from this change are people whose voices we would normally never hear. It is courageous of you to lend them a voice. Also, at risk of beating an already dead horse, I'd like to raise an objection against the anti-change argument earlier that the current set of control complications are all explained in the training mission, and therefore anyone who doesn't find them has only themselves to blame. That requires the training tutorial be fit for purpose, and according to modern standards it is simply not. The TDM training mission is technically competent, but it fails at the critical requirement of giving new players motivation to slog through the learning curve in order to play the game proper. This is an area where Thief inarguably did it better even 20 years ago. TDM's tutorial is too long. It is bloated with too much non-essential information, and lacks any teasers of the world building or gameplay loops that would motivate a player to try the game proper. To anyone with modern gaming sensibilities, the training mission says this game does not respect your time. People today expect game mechanics to be discoverable in the course of gameplay, which largely means clinging to genre conventions as much as possible, and teaching the rest through minimal, immersive tutorialization within the main gameplay loop. A New Job is a big step in the right direction as a replacement, but unless I am misremembering, it is only a partial one. It wisely focuses on the essentials of moment-to moment play, leaving the advanced stuff for the player to discover on their own. Except the whole problem is these advanced features are not at all designed to be discoverable. If your argument is that something is fine because anyone who played the whole training mission would know how to deal with it, that in itself is a sign of a major problem.

Just took a few minutes to give this a go, and I 've had no issues at all. As far as I can tell it works as intended: frob to shoulder body frob to unshoulder body hold-frob to drag body hold-frob to pinch candle It seems to prioritize highlighted objects just fine (loot bags on bodies, doors while shouldering, etc). I'm quite happy about how it works, tbh, in terms of gameplay. It's a relief to have no unnecessary steps to it. I played my unpatched game just to check everything else behaves the same, and I immediately had a bit of a hiccup with the controls. I don't often blow candles or shoulder bodies, since I tend to ghost more often, so I don't exactly have to default controls in my muscle memory. I had to remind myself I was playing the unpatched version and that there's extra steps to it, because the patched controls are so more intuitive to me that I had already got used to them (in just 5 minutes of goofing around).

That would be great, but what I would really like is just a cvar to reverse the short frob and long frob behaviour for bodies. Also the optimal solution would probably be to add gameplay options so each player can set this how they want it! This would also fix the problem of players not knowing about the new controls. But then this might be a lot of additional work.

No idea. What I meant was just that leaning can expose you (a lot) depending on the lighting, so presumably you won't get "invisible shots" with the new lean. I haven't tried it yet, so I could be wrong, but that's probably the case. On a side note, personally I don't like that as it is that much. Getting so exposed makes leaning so useless in so many situations... I'm always scared of leaning because of that. I think it's one of those realism vs gameplay things where I'd rather favor gameplay. So much about hiding in shadows and sneaking is hyper unrealistic anyway. But favoring the player usually makes a more gratifying gameplay. Like when you're making a 2D game and you make the player hit box smaller than the sprite, to make it more forgiving and less frustrating.

Does this mean the new lean will get you potentionally more exposed? Because it should be. I think with the current lean you peak your head around the corner, but with the new lean feature you just step aside. That's what it looks like. If the new lean system is easier to use, shouldn't there be a trade-off? I personally do like it when there's some realism in gameplay. If something feels wrong because it's unrealistic, then I notice it. I think that could be actually cool, but I think first breathing sounds need to be introduced, music disabled.. Maybe something to try out in a specific mission build.

Well, I'm sorry I missed the discussion. The only threads I see are 2 weeks old. You decided to change core aspect of gameplay, such things are painful.

We always have to keep in mind satisfying > realistic, when we're thinking gameplay. But still, our natural tendency is to not lean our heads much, though. And on top of that, our brain does a good job at keeping our perception of the world pretty straight, up to a certain point. And we tend to avoid reaching that point because once we start seeing the world sideways we also start having trouble making sense of it (and this is true in a videogame too, and why rotating the camera isn't a great idea). You certainly don't want that if you're a thief on a mission. And peeking isn't only about seeing what's around the corner, it can also be about trying to do something about it while trying to not fully expose yourself. We could have both functionalities, but that would require more keys (at least one modifier key for leaning). Or we can just have the latter, since it naturally serves both purposes. This depends on the lighting. In TDM you can get exposed while peeking, if there's a light hitting where your heads at.

I don't pay attention to this argument, sorry. I can agree that grabbing bodies has little gameplay utility and is something like an engine show-off. But situation with candles is different: both grabbing and extinguishing are useful. Click vs Long click, irreversibly extinguishing candles accidentally, eternal arguments about exact duration --- this confusion is removed with double-click. And new players have equally low chance to discover double-click and long click, unless it is explained somewhere. UPDATE: And the double-click approach does not change existing controls, only adds new meaning for the second part of double-click.

I second Welli's opinion. Designing gameplay features for the sole sake of "realism" isn't really a great path to go down. Movement and combat should be fluid, immersive (a much better ideal to pursue than "realism"), and, more importantly, FUN. Lowering bow-draw hold time while leaning doesn't seem FUN to me, just a needless obstacle for the sake of "realism" (in a magical made-up steampunk world where vine arrows and manbeasts exist, guards and civilians are completely oblivious to a thief crouching right next to them in near-total darkness, and Corbin can carry dozens of pounds worth of inventory equipment and not make a sound). Features should be developed to create the illusion of realism and not be focused on whether or not the human head can tilt this way or that. Perhaps we should implement a feature where Corbin should hold his breath when AI is patrolling near him so they don't hear him breathe? [insert obligatory irony tag here] EDIT: I should also mention that I think Daft Mugi's Lean Gold fits the bill of being fluid, immersive, and fun.

OK I think I've got to the bottom of this. I've created this forum thread (with bug report): https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22221-bug-drowning-ai-in-shallow-water/ I can apply a workaround, although it won't be perfect and the bug itself needs fixing in the engine. There are a few other things that need fixing so will put an update together soonish.

If any mappers have encountered weirdness with kill objectives not working with drowning AI, I think I've found out why. I don't think it would be a particularly difficult one to fix either. I've raised this bug report: https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6323 Some context here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21837-fan-mission-the-lieutenant-2-high-expectations-by-frost_salamander-20230424/&do=findComment&comment=487316 I think this is a bug, but just raising here in case some people think otherwise.

I dom't use it, i found it here with the filter set to OpenSource. the TOS and PP isn't excluding for an OpenSource app, if they use ads mean that they also need to pay an server for this online service. OpenSource is not synonymous with free either, perhaps after the beta phase it is no longer free, so perhaps you can take advantage of the fact that it is still free to create a series of textures that can be used or search another one in Futuretools. AI generated textures and assets, by definition, don't have any copyright, so you can use them as you want. https://www.futuretools.io/?pricing-model=free|open-source&tags-n5zn=gaming

Hello TDM-ers. I am encountering an issue where textures seem to partially disappear. I tried searching the forums, but, I don't know what to search for. The missing textures are a worldspawn brush acting as a roof with {for now} flat iron texture. There are other worldspawn brushes right below to create an attic ceiling with roof framework board texture. These gaps appeared a few edits ago. I can't "undo" to get back before whatever edit did this. The gaps are only visible during play and are not visible during editing. Closing and reopening DR and TDM do not fix anything. Some of the brushes overlap in areas behind the play area but I have never seen an issue doing that. The attached image has the effect I am now seeing. Ideas on where to start debugging this? Very much appreciated. Clint

Awesome! Post is up! https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22200-beta-testing-the-house-of-delisle/#comment-487365 Thanks!

Complaint From Players The player must pick up candles before extinguishing them, and then the player must remember to drop the candle. The player must drag a body before shouldering it (picking it up), and the player must remember to frob again to stop dragging the body. The player finds this annoying or easy to make mistakes. For players who ghost, some of them have the goal of returning objects back to their original positions. With the current "pick up, use item, and drop" system, the item might not return easily or at all to its original position. For example, a candlestick might bounce off its holder. (See player quotes at the bottom.) Bug Tracker https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6316 Problems to Solve How can the "pick up" step be eliminated so that the player can directly use or interact with the item where it is in the game world? How can so much key pressing and mouse clicking be eliminated when the player wants to directly use an item? How can candles be extinguished and lanterns toggled off/on without first picking them up? How can bodies be shouldered without first dragging them? Solution Design Goals Make TDM easier for new players while also improving it for longtime players. Reduce tedious steps for common frob interactions. Make it intuitive so that menu settings are unnecessary. Do not introduce bugs or break the game. Terms frob -- the frob button action happens instantly. hold frob -- the frob button is held for 200ms before the action happens. (This can be changed via cvar: 200ms by default.) Proposed Solution Note: Some issues have been struckthrough to show changes since the patch has been updated. Change how frobbing works for bodies, candles, and lanterns. For bodies: Frob to shoulder (pick up) a body. Second frob to drop shouldered body, while allowing frob on doors, switches, etc. Hold frob (key down) to start drag, continue to hold frob (key down) to drag body, and then release frob (key up) to stop dragging body. Also, a body can be dragged immediately by holding frob and moving the mouse. For candles/lanterns: Frob to extinguish candles and toggle off/on lanterns. Hold frob to pick it up, and then frob again to drop. Frob to pick it up, and then frob again to drop. Hold frob to extinguish candles and toggle off/on lanterns. For food: Frob to pick it up, and then frob again to drop. Hold frob to eat food. For other items: No change. New cvar "tdm_frobhold_delay", default:"200" The frob hold delay (in ms) before drag or extinguish. Set to 0 for TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior. Solution Benefits Bodies: New players will have less to learn to get started moving knocked out guards. With TDM v2.11 and earlier, some players have played several missions before realizing that they could shoulder a body instead of dragging it long distances. Frob to shoulder body matches Thief, so longtime Thief players will find it familiar. Second frob drops a shouldered body. Players still have the ability to both shoulder and drag bodies. Compatible with the new auto-search bodies feature. Dragging feels more natural -- just grab, hold, and drop with a single button press. There is no longer the need to press the button twice. Also, it's no longer possible to walk away from a body while unintentionally dragging it. Set "tdm_frobhold_delay" cvar to delay of 0 to restore TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior. Candles: New players will have less to learn to get started extinguishing candles. With TDM v2.11 and earlier, some players didn't know they could extinguish candles by picking them up and using them. Instead, they resorted to throwing them to extinguish them or hiding them. Hold frob to extinguish a candle feels like "pinching" it out. Once a candle is picked up, players still have the ability to manipulate and use them the same way they are used to in TDM v2.11 and earlier. For players who ghost and have the goal of putting objects back to their original positions, they'll have an easier time and not have to deal with candles popping off their holders when trying to place them back carefully. Set "tdm_frobhold_delay" cvar to delay of 0 to restore TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior. Solution Issues Bodies: Frob does not drop a shouldered body, so that might be unexpected for new players. This is also different than Thief where a second frob will drop a body. "Use Inv. Item" or "Drop Inv. Item" drops the body. This is the same as TDM v2.11 and earlier. This is the price to pay for being able to frob (open/close) doors while shouldering a body. Patch was updated to drop body on second frob, while allowing frob on doors, switches, etc. Candles: Picking up a candle or lantern requires a slight delay, because the player must hold the frob button. The player might unintentionally extinguish a candle while moving it if they hold down frob. The player will need to learn that holding frob will extinguish the candle. The player can change the delay period via the "tdm_frobhold_delay" cvar. Also, when the cvar is set to a delay of 0, the behavior matches TDM v2.11 and earlier, meaning the player would have to first "Frob/Interact" to pick up the candle and then press "Use Inv. Item" to extinguish it. Some players might unintentionally extinguish a candle when they are trying to move it or pick it up. They need to make sure to hold frob to initiate moving the candle. When a candle is unlit, it will highlight but do nothing on frob. That might confuse players. However, the player will likely learn after extinguishing several candles that an unlit candle still highlights. It makes sense that an already-extinguished candle cannot be extinguished on frob. The official "Training Mission" might need to have its instructions updated to correctly guide the player through candle manipulation training. Updating the training mission to include the hold frob to extinguish would probably be helpful. Similar Solutions In Fallout 4, frob uses an item and long-press frob picks it up. Goldwell's mission, "Accountant 2: New In Town", has candles that extinguish on frob without the need of picking them up first. Snatcher's TDM Modpack includes a "Blow / Ignite" item that allows the player to blow out candles Wesp5's Unofficial Patch provides a way to directly extinguish movable candles by frobbing. Demonstration Videos Note: The last two videos don't quite demonstrate the latest patch anymore. But the gist is the same. This feature proposal is best experienced in game, but some demonstration videos are better than nothing. The following videos show either a clear improvement or that the player is not slowed down with the change in controls. For example, "long-press" sounds long, but it really isn't. Video: Body Shouldering and Dragging The purpose of this video is to show that frob to shoulder a body is fast and long-press frob to drag a body is fast enough and accurate. Video: Long-Press Frob to Pick Up Candle The purpose of this video is to show how the long-press frob to pick up a candle isn't really much slower than regular frob. Video: Frob to Extinguish The purpose of this video -- if a bit contrived -- is to show the efficiency and precision of this proposed feature. The task in the video was for the player to as quickly and accurately as possible extinguish candles and put them back in their original positions. On the left, TDM v2.11 is shown. The player has to highlight each candle, press "Frob/Interact" to pick up, press "Use Inv. Item" to extinguish, make sure the candle is back in place, and finally press "Frob/Interact" to drop the candle. The result shows mistakes and candles getting misplaced. On the right, the proposed feature is shown. The player frobs to extinguish the candles. The result shows no mistakes and candles are kept in their original positions. Special Thanks @Wellingtoncrab was instrumental in improving this feature during its early stages. We had many discussions covering varying scenarios, pros, and cons, and how it would affect the gameplay and player experience. Originally, I had a completely different solution that added a special "use modifier" keybinding. He suggested the frob to use and long-press frob to pick up mechanics. I coded it up, gave it a try, and found it to be too good. Without his feedback and patience, this feature wouldn't be as good as it is. Thank you, @Wellingtoncrab! And, of note, @Wellingtoncrab hasn't been able to try it in game yet, because I'm using Linux and can't compile a Windows build for him. So, if this feature isn't good, that's my fault. Code Patch I'll post the code patch in another post below this one so that folks who compile TDM themselves can give this proposal a try in game. And, if you do, I look forward to your feedback! Player Complaints TTLG (2023-01-10) Player 1: TDM Forums (2021-03-13) Player 2: Player 3: TDM Forums (2023-06-17) Player 4: TDM Discord (2021-05-18) Player 5: TDM Discord (2023-02-14) Player 6: Player 7: Player 8:

If you finished System Shock and you want mooore: I posted about this a while ago but one guy from systemshock.org is working on his own System Shock remaster (build with Unity engine). Here is a (new) teaser video for version 0.99.5 beta: Gameplay seen from 0:29 (warning: spoilers) Btw. Nightdive gave him permission.

I'm also not a fan of the limited inventory, especially because the first place to store some items in a chest is at the current end of the playable area, which, in my case, is 8 to 10 hours into the game, so, pretty late... I also don't like fixed save points/rooms, which require a lot of backtracking if you don't want to lose your progress, when you do a mistake like falling from a ceiling, or alerting 5 or 6 guards at the same time, which can easily happen. It seems like a silly restriction, which adds nothing to the gameplay. Other than that, as I said, I'm really impressed, and, I also like that the game doesn't explain you the whole game in the first 30 minutes. I think that's an unfortunate development in modern games, and it's refreshing to see games like the System Shock remake and this one getting rid of that hand holding. Because, sorry, that's basically what it is. Unless something is super unclear, it's really not impossible to figure those games out yourself. That's a big part of the fun and appeal of them for me.

Anyone (re-)played the game with Market update? I already was impressed before (played the game shortly after the Tavern update), but, I'm even more impressed now. The changes that have been done to gameplay and balancing in the meantime have lead to a very "round" feeling game (it's well balanced on Full Moon difficulty now, while it was a bit too difficult for my liking before), and, the new town area is very, very nice, and feels very "Thief-y" and "Dishonored-y". Nice locations and shops (even with a shopkeeper ), and some verticality as well. Can't wait for the other areas (there's still a lot to come), and, the story shapes up to be really good as well.

The *DOOM3* shaders are ARB2 ('cause of old GeForce support) carmack plan + arb2 - OpenGL / OpenGL: Advanced Coding - Khronos Forums

I have played through this mission twice now, and despite the few frustrating spots noted by others, I found it enjoyable with many interesting ideas, visuals and gameplay mechanics. I can understand why some unconventional elements like the guard change, some unpickable locks/doors or seemingly impossible-to-ghost areas can break specific kinds of play style. In my opinion however the philosophy of TDM leaves a lot of room for missions to vary and even deviate from the "canon" so not to let us get bored I also think it lies on the mission author, how much of such information they put in the mission description as a warning, e.g. geegee already has included warnings about heavy GPU demands and hints at some nonlinear aspects of gameplay. All in all an enjoyable *and* challenging mission for me. I have also experienced framerate drops in some areas, even with my new RTX 3060 with maxed-out settings. Strangely, this also happens in areas with "smoke" effects, e.g. It also appears to get worse when the lantern is on, so maybe it is an interaction of light sources with volumetric stuff or shadow maps? I encountered a few other bugs here and there, like items frobbable from inside closed drawers/containers and the stuck dungeons door, and I also managed to break the game once by The lighting could also use some tuning in a few areas. One thing I was not able to figure out is, Will certainly play v2, whenever @geegee decides to make it!

South Scrimshaw: Part One, free on GOG and Steam https://slickdeals.net/f/16845899-south-scrimshaw-part-one-pc-digital-download-free-via-gog https://www.gog.com/en/game/south_scrimshaw_part_one https://store.steampowered.com/app/2443110/South_Scrimshaw_Part_One/ Looks always free, and hard to say if it has gameplay.

Block out with FREEDOM and EASE using this "as license free as it gets" TDM prototyping material pack (Release) Watch even the most basic blockout come to life in vibrant orange! How it works: Drop the ULTRA SLIM 1.3 mb .pk4 into your project's directory In DR a new folder "protoype" will appear in the "common" textures sub directory in the media browser Don't know where to start? When simply sketching out ideas "Proto" is a perfect for getting down rough shapes and will handle 90% of prototyping needs (and is a lovely shade of orange) Need to prototype some SUPER ADVANCED GAMEPLAY? A spot of tile floor here, a beam for a rope arrow there? No problem! There are (hopefully) patterns for EVERY surface type in the game When it comes to the grid YOU are in CONTROL. You can manipulate the resolution of the grid using the default texture scale you have selected in the Surface Inspector. At a scale of 1.0 the overall pattern will repeat every 256 units with subdivisions at 128, 32, 16 and 8 units. At a scale of .5 the pattern will repeat every 128 units with subdivisions at 64, 16, 8 and 4 units. And so on. OLD FRIENDS return with two CLASSIC prototype textures completely reverse engineered from the ground up! All textures in this pack are released under CC0 license and I waive all rights to copyright that is within my power to do so. This is an initial release so any feedback on improving the tool is appreciated!