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Old post, but, the main issue isn't that a game loses "depth" (whatever that is) when it's being played with a controller. The main issue for me always has been, and always will be: Aiming. Aiming with a mouse is so ridiculously superior to aiming with a controller that most action based game are literally unplayable for me with a controller. Ok, the Thief games and also TDM are rather slow paced, and don't require you to aim precisely very quickly, but, it's still better to play with a mouse. The only thing controllers do better is the movement speed. That's stepless/analog possible with a controller with analog sticks. But, that's not an issue here either, because, TDM only has 3 movement speeds, which require button presses.

If the "mission fails as soon as stealth score turns non-zero," that would not be good for ghost players. They might need to find out "how" they failed and experiment to avoid alerting guards. They might need to take those score points as a "bust". They might need to take those score points to complete an objective. Then, mission authors would need to encode exceptions into their missions, which would be a lot of work (if they decide to do it at all). However, part of what makes ghosting challenging and fun is when mission authors do not create their missions with ghosting in mind. Please see: Official Ghosting Rules: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148523 Writing code for these rules would be a huge undertaking. Ghost Rules Discussion: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148487 Creating an official mode could alienate these dedicated ghost players, because it would clash with what is considered ghosting in the community. Including the Stealth Stat Tool mod in the official release would be more useful. Or, making the audible alert states of guards quick and easy to recognize could help as well. For these reasons, I don't agree with an official "Ghost" mode. If the dev team were to do it, we should consult with @Klatremus so we get it 100% correct or not pursue it at all. (This ghosting bit should probably be in its own thread.)

To cater to both audiences. I mentioned LibreGameWiki as one example. nbohr1more mentioned other uses. Explicitly allowing reuse and spread will help TDM reach a wider audience and would hopefully attract more volunteers. More volunteers which can help improve both TDM versions. There are several benefits for a project of being in the Debian repo. One is that TDM Debian-users can report defects on any package directly to Debian (no need to register on separate forums). Debian may then fix the issue themselves (in their "TDM-libre" package) and will offer the patch upstream to TDM, who can then choose to accept or reject the patch. I envision "TDM-libre" to have the same capability of downloading any mission as regular TDM. The only difference is that "TDM-libre" would come packaged with the regular engine (which is GPL+BSD) and an included mission that has libre media/gamedata. When I play TDM by myself, I want the unlimited-play and can accept commercial restrictions. But if I were to promote it somewhere, or charge for a stream when playing online, or make a video, I would want a version without commercial restrictions (and can temporarily accept limited-play) to make sure I don't violate anyone's copyright. Perhaps. That's what I'm trying to find out.

I suggest you use the term "I", to make clear that it is something YOU want, and that you speak for yourself. But, as wesp5 mentioned, I don't really know what this is about, at all. And, I'm also wondering about all the newly registered people lately, who just arrived at this forum, and already want to revolutionize this mod. This is a thing I noticed 2 or 3 years ago, and which hasn't been present in the 15 years I play this mod and frequent these forums now. Really seems like a common thing these days, to not knock on the door, but kick it in, and stomp right in.

TDM has tons of textures from "free" texture resources that do not allow redistribution and cannot be incorporated into a commercial project. Someone would need to create a huge replacement pack of textures that do not break the look of existing missions and do not infringe on the copyrighted textures. Also, many artists who contributed to this project do not want 3rd party entities to use their work in commercial projects. They intended the models, textures, sounds, animations to be exclusively used for Darkmod content. You would either have to replace ALL assets or contact every contributor and ask them to re-license their assets. Many contributors are no longer active with the project and haven't visited the forums in years so it would be no easy feat. I cannot speak to Debian policy but I think that they treat installers that add non-free content the same as non-free content itself. One could argue that Steam is such an installer but I guess Debian would counter that there are a few fully Libre games on Steam. I think Debian, Ubuntu, or Linux Mint need to consider a repo that allows for games (etc) that include non-libre content but intentionally offer this content for free to the community with no stipulations other than "don't try to sell it as a product".

The gamepad implementation allows for a great degree of flexibility to personalize settings, aside from a few minor issues that I mentioned here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22337-gamepad-bindings/ I would say that playing TDM with a gamepad works very well, especially considering that it was implemented as experimental and hasn't been changed since then. If I could, I'd go back to 2021-you and congratulate you on buying that gamepad. I notice that your DarkmodPadbinds.cfg looks very different from mine...

It seems like more and more "thief" and "thief players" is becoming a short hand to dismiss community members earnest desire to improve the game - which happens to be a barely legally distinct "thief style" game which was made by thief fans for thief fans and is "designed to simulate the stealth gameplay of Thief". Who is the predominant player base of the game supposed to be beyond fans of the thief games? Is there some better avenue to find feedback for the game beyond this forum? FOSS and linux forums? I have seen maybe half a dozen posts from that segment. I am a thief fan, I play thief fms, my association with those games is what drives me to play and make things for this game. Are we supposed to pretend the original games are not a huge reason why most of us are here at all? TL;DR version:

Thanks! 1) Doing LONG_PRESS PAD_A (what I, for lack of knowledge, call "jump-mantle" or "_jumpmantle") differs from doing PRESS PAD_A ("_jump"). "_jumpmantle" differs from "_mantle", so they must be mapped to different button-calls. "_jumpmantle" differs from "_jump", so they must also be mapped to different button-calls. This appears to be the case, but it is not evident (or changeable) in DarkmodPadbinds.cfg. "_jumpmantle" seems to be hard coded to always connect to the same button as "_jump" but with a long press. It is as if bindPadButton PRESS PAD_A "_jump" is not actually just binding PRESS PAD_A to "_jump", but rather interpreted as "link PAD_A (regardless of button press time) to behave exactly like keyboard SPACE for short and long presses". I would have expected the default DarkmodPadbinds.cfg to explicitly read: bindPadButton PRESS PAD_A "_jump" bindPadButton LONG_PRESS PAD_A "_jumpmantle" bindPadButton PRESS PAD_B "_crouch" bindPadButton LONG_PRESS PAD_B "_mantle" ... but neither LONG_PRESS PAD_A or "_jumpmantle" is listed in the file. If there are actions "_jump" and "_mantle", I suppose there must also be an action "_jumpmantle" since it is possible for the player to do all those movements: * "_mantle" does the movements "crouch on the high surface, then stand up" * "_jumpmantle" idoes the movements "jump slightly forward, then land standing on the high surface" * "_jump" idoes the movements "jump up, then land exactly where you started" If the actions "_jump" and "_moveup" are not synonymous, then perhaps the action "_moveup" is what i call "_jumpmantle"? 2) Thanks for the link! It was useful in more than one way. I'll link to that page from https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Bindings_and_User_Settings#Gamepad_Default_Bindings if I can get an account on the wiki, which proved more difficult than i thought (https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22327-how-can-i-create-an-account-on-the-tdm-wiki/). However, it does not answer my question how to find out the name ("<button>") used for a button on my gamepad. Basically, I would need to press the button on my gamepad and some program could tell me "That button is called 'PAD_A'". In my case, I have a gamepad "Logitech F310" (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Logitech_F310_Gamepad.jpg) which has a "Logitech button" (see image) that I want to use. I was hoping to find out the "button name" for that button and then edit DarkmodPadbinds.cfg to map it to a function. 3) ... but if that button has an "unusual name" that TDM does not recognize, then it may perhaps not work. E.g. if that button is called "PAD_LOGITECH" and TDM cannot recognize that name, then I cannot map anything to it via DarkmodPadbinds.cfg. Using QJoyPad I can map any keyboard key to it instead, as a workaround, but I cannot map MODIFIER to it (since MODIFIER cannot be set to a keyboard key). If current implementation is still called "experimental", then I must say it works very well; @cabalistic: kudos for that! I may not have continued playing TDM had it not worked with a gamepad.

It is possible that this is a setting that needs to be activated to work: https://mantisbt.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23221

I am going to sort-of reveal that this is loosely like the nature of my upcoming mission. I noted it here when JackFarmer asked about things that are coming along in this post: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/profile/37993-jackfarmer/&status=3943&type=status It too is a builder church. The player is requested by a hopefully famous character in another mission to handle some business that is affecting the congregation. I am looking to invoke some info and history laid down in other missions as a hook story.

I dom't use it, i found it here with the filter set to OpenSource. the TOS and PP isn't excluding for an OpenSource app, if they use ads mean that they also need to pay an server for this online service. OpenSource is not synonymous with free either, perhaps after the beta phase it is no longer free, so perhaps you can take advantage of the fact that it is still free to create a series of textures that can be used or search another one in Futuretools. AI generated textures and assets, by definition, don't have any copyright, so you can use them as you want. https://www.futuretools.io/?pricing-model=free|open-source&tags-n5zn=gaming

I created the page: https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Lightgem In the source I placed the following text: <!-- Page text made by forum user Fiver: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22327-how-can-i-create-an-account-on-the-tdm-wiki/&do=findComment&comment=491145 --> Personally I think the page isn't really necessary because the info is already present under HUD.

Changelog of 2.12 development: release212 (rev 16989-10651) * Training Mission reverted to 2.11 state, except for text changes about new controls. beta212-07 (rev 16982-10651) * Fixed save/load of turrets. * Fixed some more cases of camera clipping during force-crouched mantle (6425). * Fixed crash if player wins twice in quick succession (6489). * Added angRotate script event. * Fixed church_altar prefab (6285). beta212-06 (rev 16970-10644) * Fixed light leaks workaround dropped after save + load (post). * Force doors which connect visportal to cast shadows regardless of light flow (post). * Improved candle vs junk detection for new frob controls (6316). * Fixed player getting stuck at start of "One Step Too Far" (post). * Fixed warning on spawning atdm:env_ragdoll_tdm_spider. * Fixed wrong skin in mechanical/switches/switch_rotate_lever prefab (6479). * Fixed double slash in lady02 subtitle decls (post). * Fixed rotated versions of safe03_wall prefab (6268). * Tweaked fogging of health potion. * Fixed overbright skins for nature bushes (6478). * Fixed Grandfather_clock_victorian_01 model (6383). * Removed pause from looping sound machinery/machines/m3_loop (6384). * Fixed broken func_portals in Training Mission (4352). * Minor improvements in Saint Lucia mission. * Doubled game scripts memory limit (post). * Improved normal map of long banners (6355). beta212-05 (rev 16950-10635) * Fixed player seeing through ceiling when mantling into crouched state (6425). * Improved how frobbing works on junk items (6316). * Toggled states of player movement are saved and restored properly (6458). * Fixed back image loading optimization. * Added canCloseDoors spawnarg on AI, which allows to block closing only (6460). * Rats and spiders are non-shoulderable by default (6456). * Increased wait in screenshot_viewpos macro command (6331). * Added forest models from The Valley abandoned mission. * Fixed frobstage on sign models (6457). * Added vine arrows to training mission (4352). * Improved Merry Chest prefabs (6459). * Fixed normal map of dirt_packed_muddy (4668). * Fixed nails in door_boarded_up01 model. * Fixed attachments of atdm:fireplace_place_base (6474). * Fixed editor image of blocks_large_sandstone, rough_grey_dirty_sepia_grey_trim (6281, 6464). * Added editor image for grey_dirty_trim material. * Adjusted tooltip for auto-search bodies. beta212-04 (rev 16932-10626) * Added massive package of subtitles for AI sounds (6240, thread). * Fixes in envshot command (5796). * Added nature/dirt/ash_and_coals texture (6441). beta212-03 (rev 16902-10623) * Improved subtitles layout and location ring picture (p1 p2). * Fixed broken remote render with soft stencil shadows. * Added color buffer clears to fix remote render breaking skybox (6424). * Fixed warning generated by remote render (6424). * Fixed min_lod_bias being ignored if no other LOD settings is specified (6359). * Now changing LOD settings effects objects with min_lod_bias immediately (6359). * Fixed text & background alignment in mission lists (6337). * Fixed gaps in chandelier models (6433). * Added missing editor texture for carpet/runners/ornate_red_black03_end (6435). * Further expansion of listRenderLightDefs and listLightEntityDefs commands. beta212-02 (rev 16889-10613) * Fixed underwater rendering due to missing doublevision shader (post). * Exclude more lights from the new light portal flow optimizations (5172, 6321). * black_matt is now fully black, no tiny green bias (post). * Fixed lockpick interruption when mouse cursor switches between door and handle. * Extended listRenderLightDefs and listLightEntityDefs commands. * Fixed church_altar.pfb (6285). * Added window01_curtains01.lwo in separate parts (6356). * tdm_open_doors now opens locked doors too. * Fixed rare case of getting NaN in spline mover. * Added r_skipEntities cvar, similar to "filter entities" in DR. * Added editor spawnargs for volumetric light properties (6322). * Fixed radius override and added position override for script-based stims. * Fixed warnings with wrong virtual function overrides. beta212-01 (rev 16879-10584) * Fixed player falling through elevator when shouldering a body (6259). * Rebalanced volume of all player footsteps (6348). * Fixed weird animation when mixing drawn bow and main menu (2758). * Fixed all kind of issues with bc_teatray material. * Added alternative frob controls mode tdm_holdfrob_drag_all_entities for dragging on hold. * Fixed non-actor entities always getting full splash damage. * Hide console before screenshot with screenshot_viewport command (6331). * Added tdm_subtitles_ring cvar to disable subtitles location ring. * Added mission.cfg as a temporary way for mission to override non-archived cvars (5453). * Cvars "pm_lean_*" are no longer archived (6320). * Removed some cvar overrides from atdm:player_base. * CFrobLock now supports script events: Lock, Unlock, ToggleLock, IsLocked, IsPickable (6329). * Simplified flee script event, supported fleeing from non-actor entity and fleeFromPoint. * Fixed crash on some non-standard cases of flinderize. * Can set spawnarg "douse 0" on damageDef to not extinguish lights from splash damage. * Added setFrobMaster script event. * Added script-based stim type, which triggers only when stimEmit script event is called. * Added on/off script events to func_emitter entity. * Added setSmoke script event to change particle decl for a func_smoke. * Added hasInvItem script event to check if player has some item. * Added launchGuided script event to start guided projectiles. * Added getInterceptTime script event for shooting projectile and running target. * Added "bounce_sound_min|max_velocity" spawnargs to control projectile bounce sounds. * Added "postbounce_*" spawnargs to change projectile properties after bounce. * Fixes to moor guard ragdoll (6345). * Fixed wench AI sounds (6284). * Added new experimental entityDef for an automatic turret. * Official missions no longer pretend to be part of 3-mission campaign (6338). * Removed AI PAIN messages console spam. * Removed excessive "s_volume 0" from base loot entityDefs (6346). * Replaced symbol on the proguard's belt. * Default value of com_maxfps increased from 144 to 300. * Improved idEntityPtr, fixed some warnings. dev16854-10518 * High mantle animation has become much faster (6343). * Crouching while on ladder/rope now causes player to slide instantly. * Added "forceShadowBehindOpaque" hack to workaround shadow leaks in old missions (5172). * Fixed and revised underwater "double vision" effect (6300). * Add scratch images have alpha = 1, which fixes some mirror materials (6300). * Added warning if material output color depends on input alpha, fixed it in core assets (6340). * Support several independent user addon scripts (6336). * Fixed missing headbob and footsteps at very high FPS (4696). * Fixed player hanging mid-air in a jump at very high FPS (6333). * Don't crash if player's head does not exist (6326). * Added "fade in fast" options for frobhelper (6342). * Removed "show tooltips" option, now it is always on (6344). * Added default spawnarg values to "text" debug entityDef (6325). * Fixed some uninitialized values, float overflows and NaNs across the code. * Reorganized covered furniture models from Seeking Lady Leicester (6289). dev16842-10488 * Major changes in frob/use controls: holding frob does different thing now (6316, thread). * Fixed some electric lights not spawning. * It is no longer necessary to specify extension to reference PNG image. * Added cvar tdm_show_viewpos and command screenshot_viewpos (6331). * Fixed hanging when light is moved through a plane with many visportals (3815, thread). * Fixed multipage readables stuck on empty page, improved page flipping (6313). * Fixed WAV sounds playing in main menu, all sounds are streaming now (6330). * Fixed light leaks along scissor rectangle boundary with soft stencil shadows (thread). * Better subtitles location visualization (6264). * Changed position of subtitle blocks and subtitle font (6264). * Internal refactoring of idImage class (6300). * Fixed rare bug in renderworld raycasting... might happen with particle collisions. * Fixed warnings in newspaper_bridgeport0X core readable GUI (6245). * Added vec4 GUI keyword (6164). * Renamed pm_lean_toggle cvar to tdm_toggle_lean. * Improved "head bob" and "mantle roll" settings in main menu. * Updated FFmpeg to 4.4.4 (6314). Known issues: * Various problems after image refactoring: underwater, mirrors, etc. dev16829-10455 * Allowed to mantle while carrying/manipulating an object (5892, thread). * Allowed to change weapon while mantling or on rope/ladder (6319). * Several leaning improvements (6320, thread). * Parallel shadow-casting lights are deprecated, use parallelSky instead (6306). * Added many menu settings for autoloot body, blackjack helper, and other (6311). * Deleted option for autolooting bodies with one item per frob, added menu setting (6257). * Added cvar to modify all head bobbing settings (6310). * Fixed some corner cases with multiloot (6270). * Fixed frob helper's "always visible" mode (6318). * New&fixed versions of atdm:lamp_electric_square_3_lit_unattached (6315). * Fixed UV map on Stove models (6312). * Reworked r_showPrimitives + deleted code for rendering from CPU buffers. * Shortened name of end-mission autosaves (6294). * Consistent names of various arrows. Known issues: * Some electric lights don't spawn. dev16818-10434 * Fixed projectiles flying through player and enemies sometimes (6292). * Lights with noshadows spawnarg pass through walls again (5172). * Disabled portal flow culling optimization for parallel lights (5172, 6306). * Faster light-entity interactions matching if light is noshadows due to spawnarg (6296). * Compression of images to DXT1/3/5 is done in software (6300). * Cleaned up rounding math routines (6300). * r_showportals 2 is easier to understand now * Changed rules for getting start areas of parallelSky light (6306). dev16814-10408 * Optimized portal flow culling for shadowing lights (5172). * Extended dmap diagnostics to info_portalSettings, improved editor descriptions (6224). * Added test commands: tdm_open_doors and tdm_close_doors. * Minor adjustments to ear-cutting algorithm in dmap. * Minor refactoring in image compression code (6300). dev16809-10394 * r_shadowMapSinglePass is enabled by default now. * Fixed lack of shadows in volumetric lights under r_shadowMapSinglePass (6271). * Fixed interaction rendering on materials with polygonOffset (5868). * Optimized code for finding light-entity interactions on large maps (6296). * Optimized moving shadowing lights: don't create interactions in unreachable areas (5172). * More refactoring in backend: tonemap shader (6271). * Added more covered furniture models (6289). * Added wall models from Seeking Lady Leicester (6293). Known issues: * Some noshadows lights no longer pass through walls. dev16801-10370 * Supported -durationExtend for inline subtitles (6262). * Added blue noise dithering to tonemap shader, which fixed color banding of fog (6271). * Optimized away unnecessary render copy under "useNewRenderPasses 1" (6271). * Refactored blend and fog lights into new backend architecture. For troubleshooting, reduce cvar useNewRenderPasses to 1 or 0 (6271). * Added 30 case to max FPS selection in settings menu. dev16792-10357 * Fixed particles bound to animated joints (6099). * idVec3 is no longer initialized to zero by default (6280). * Integrated Address Sanitizer tool and fixed a few found bugs (6280). dev16789-10349 * Deleted old backend completely + some cleaning (6271). * Fixed map icon wrong name (thread). * Now light entities support noPortalFog spawnarg (6282). * Support fonts aspect ratio correction (6283). * Fixed playerstart customization (thread). * Refactored "render pass" part into new backend architecture. For troubleshooting, try cvar "useNewRenderPasses 0". Also "textures/particles/blacksmokepuff" now works (6271) * Now arithmetic expressions in materials support min/max functions (6271). * Minor initialization cleanup (6280). dev16785-10319 * "r_shadowMapSinglePass 1" now respects noselfshadows flag (6271). * Continued refactoring in shadow maps and render-pass shaders (6271). dev16783-10307 * Backported new rendering backend to uniforms, should work like the old one now (6271). * "Auto" lockpicking difficulty now unlocks pin from after one cycle (6256). * Added "auto-search bodies" feature under tdm_autosearch_bodies cvar (6257). * Added r_shadowMapAlphaTested cvar for single-pass shadow maps (6271). dev16781-10289 * Added first version of direction and volume cues to subtitles (6264). * Allow subtitles to extend duration of sound sample (6262). * Improved slot allocation algorithm for subtitles, a subtitle no longer changes slot (6264). * Fixed bug that stereo sample plays for 2x duration due to length confusion. * Upgraded libpng and rebuilt third-party packages. * Internal fixes of depth bounds test asserts. dev16778-10275 * Allow limited mantling with a shouldered body (5892). * Fixed toggle creep and improved settings layout in the menu (6242). * Fixed bounding boxes of animated entities and particles, enabled r_useEntityScissors by default (6099). * Trigger call_on_exit before call_on_entry when switching locations. * Don't expand bounds of surfaces with turbulent deform (5990). * Removed "gui" spawnarg on GUI message to avoid first frame (6117). Known issues: * Particles bounds to animated joints broken. Changelog of earlier versions can be found here. Source: 2.12 beta testing thread

Mandrasola is a small sized map in which aspiring thief Thomas Porter steals some herbal products from a smuggler. The mission was created by me, Sotha and I wish to thank Bikerdude, BrokenArts and Ocn for playtesting and voice acting. Thanks goes naturally to everyone contributing and making TDM possible. This mission occurs chronologically before the Knighton's Manor, making it the first mission in the Thomas Porter series. Events in chronological order are: Mandrasola, The Knighton's Manor, The Beleaguered Fence, The Glenham Tower and The Transaction. The winter came early and suddenly this year. Weeks of strong blizzards and extremely harsh cold weather hit Bridgeport hard. With the seas completely frozen, a rare occurence indeed, most of the City harbor commerce has stopped completely. Vessels are stuck in the ice and no ship can leave or enter the City, resulting in the availability imported goods declining and their prices skyrocketing. One of these imported items is Mandrasola, a rare herbal product, which is imported overseas from the far southern continents. Mandrasola has its uses in alchemical cures and poisons, but mostly this substance is used for its narcotic qualities by commoners and even the nobility. The problem with Mandrasola is that excessive use is extremely addicting and the withdrawal effects are most grievious. Many are utterly incapable of stopping using Mandrasola and are transformed into quivering human ruins if they do no get their daily dose. And now this expensive and rare substance is running out from the whole City. Me and my fence, Lark Butternose, would love to grab this monopoly to ourselves: selling the last few doses in the City would probably be worth a fortune. According to Lark's sources, there remains only one smuggling lord who still has Mandrasola in stock. The problem is that this individual maintains an exclusive clandestine operation and only supplies a few nobles. Despite our best information gathering efforts we couldn't learn who the smuggler is and where he or she operates. Luckily we have an alternate plan. While searching for Mandrasola related information, we learned that a noblewoman called Lady Ludmilla is addicted to the substance and has paid high prices for small amounts of it. We also know that she has visited frequently someone in the Tanner's Ward waterfront, and since she goes to the area personally we believe she is visiting the smuggler. The plan is simple: I must monitor Ludmilla's most likely entryway to the Waterfront and then follow her to the smugglers hideout. I'd better be very careful around Ludmilla. She must not realise I'm following her or she probably won't lead me to her dealer. Hurting her is also out of the question. After she leads me to the smuggler's hideout, I can take my time to break in carefully and steal all the Mandrasola I can find. While I'm there it wouldn't be a bad idea to grab some loose valuables as well. I've now waited in the blistering cold for a few hours already. Looks like there are a few city watch patrols in the area to complicate matters... I think I heard a womans voice beyond the north gate. That must be lady Ludmilla, I haven't seen many ladies in these parts. I'd better get ready.. Links: Use the ingame downloader to get it. WARNING! Someone always fails to use spoiler tags. I do not recommend reading any further until you've played the mission.

In the first post of the other topic Geep proposed: Then Stgatilov's answer: But I think applying subtitles in different languages shouldn't be too hard I would think, but I don't know how the current translation system works. The engine should apply the correct subtitles based on the applied language setting, this doesn't need a whole new language system I think. Not sure who's going to write those subtitles though. I can only do Dutch and English and nobody needs Dutch I think. I suggest further discussion of this to take place in topic https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21741-subtitles-possibilities-beyond-211/

Changelog of 2.12 development: release212 (rev 16989-10651) * Training Mission reverted to 2.11 state, except for text changes about new controls. beta212-07 (rev 16982-10651) * Fixed save/load of turrets. * Fixed some more cases of camera clipping during force-crouched mantle (6425). * Fixed crash if player wins twice in quick succession (6489). * Added angRotate script event. * Fixed church_altar prefab (6285). beta212-06 (rev 16970-10644) * Fixed light leaks workaround dropped after save + load (post). * Force doors which connect visportal to cast shadows regardless of light flow (post). * Improved candle vs junk detection for new frob controls (6316). * Fixed player getting stuck at start of "One Step Too Far" (post). * Fixed warning on spawning atdm:env_ragdoll_tdm_spider. * Fixed wrong skin in mechanical/switches/switch_rotate_lever prefab (6479). * Fixed double slash in lady02 subtitle decls (post). * Fixed rotated versions of safe03_wall prefab (6268). * Tweaked fogging of health potion. * Fixed overbright skins for nature bushes (6478). * Fixed Grandfather_clock_victorian_01 model (6383). * Removed pause from looping sound machinery/machines/m3_loop (6384). * Fixed broken func_portals in Training Mission (4352). * Minor improvements in Saint Lucia mission. * Doubled game scripts memory limit (post). * Improved normal map of long banners (6355). beta212-05 (rev 16950-10635) * Fixed player seeing through ceiling when mantling into crouched state (6425). * Improved how frobbing works on junk items (6316). * Toggled states of player movement are saved and restored properly (6458). * Fixed back image loading optimization. * Added canCloseDoors spawnarg on AI, which allows to block closing only (6460). * Rats and spiders are non-shoulderable by default (6456). * Increased wait in screenshot_viewpos macro command (6331). * Added forest models from The Valley abandoned mission. * Fixed frobstage on sign models (6457). * Added vine arrows to training mission (4352). * Improved Merry Chest prefabs (6459). * Fixed normal map of dirt_packed_muddy (4668). * Fixed nails in door_boarded_up01 model. * Fixed attachments of atdm:fireplace_place_base (6474). * Fixed editor image of blocks_large_sandstone, rough_grey_dirty_sepia_grey_trim (6281, 6464). * Added editor image for grey_dirty_trim material. * Adjusted tooltip for auto-search bodies. beta212-04 (rev 16932-10626) * Added massive package of subtitles for AI sounds (6240, thread). * Fixes in envshot command (5796). * Added nature/dirt/ash_and_coals texture (6441). beta212-03 (rev 16902-10623) * Improved subtitles layout and location ring picture (p1 p2). * Fixed broken remote render with soft stencil shadows. * Added color buffer clears to fix remote render breaking skybox (6424). * Fixed warning generated by remote render (6424). * Fixed min_lod_bias being ignored if no other LOD settings is specified (6359). * Now changing LOD settings effects objects with min_lod_bias immediately (6359). * Fixed text & background alignment in mission lists (6337). * Fixed gaps in chandelier models (6433). * Added missing editor texture for carpet/runners/ornate_red_black03_end (6435). * Further expansion of listRenderLightDefs and listLightEntityDefs commands. beta212-02 (rev 16889-10613) * Fixed underwater rendering due to missing doublevision shader (post). * Exclude more lights from the new light portal flow optimizations (5172, 6321). * black_matt is now fully black, no tiny green bias (post). * Fixed lockpick interruption when mouse cursor switches between door and handle. * Extended listRenderLightDefs and listLightEntityDefs commands. * Fixed church_altar.pfb (6285). * Added window01_curtains01.lwo in separate parts (6356). * tdm_open_doors now opens locked doors too. * Fixed rare case of getting NaN in spline mover. * Added r_skipEntities cvar, similar to "filter entities" in DR. * Added editor spawnargs for volumetric light properties (6322). * Fixed radius override and added position override for script-based stims. * Fixed warnings with wrong virtual function overrides. beta212-01 (rev 16879-10584) * Fixed player falling through elevator when shouldering a body (6259). * Rebalanced volume of all player footsteps (6348). * Fixed weird animation when mixing drawn bow and main menu (2758). * Fixed all kind of issues with bc_teatray material. * Added alternative frob controls mode tdm_holdfrob_drag_all_entities for dragging on hold. * Fixed non-actor entities always getting full splash damage. * Hide console before screenshot with screenshot_viewport command (6331). * Added tdm_subtitles_ring cvar to disable subtitles location ring. * Added mission.cfg as a temporary way for mission to override non-archived cvars (5453). * Cvars "pm_lean_*" are no longer archived (6320). * Removed some cvar overrides from atdm:player_base. * CFrobLock now supports script events: Lock, Unlock, ToggleLock, IsLocked, IsPickable (6329). * Simplified flee script event, supported fleeing from non-actor entity and fleeFromPoint. * Fixed crash on some non-standard cases of flinderize. * Can set spawnarg "douse 0" on damageDef to not extinguish lights from splash damage. * Added setFrobMaster script event. * Added script-based stim type, which triggers only when stimEmit script event is called. * Added on/off script events to func_emitter entity. * Added setSmoke script event to change particle decl for a func_smoke. * Added hasInvItem script event to check if player has some item. * Added launchGuided script event to start guided projectiles. * Added getInterceptTime script event for shooting projectile and running target. * Added "bounce_sound_min|max_velocity" spawnargs to control projectile bounce sounds. * Added "postbounce_*" spawnargs to change projectile properties after bounce. * Fixes to moor guard ragdoll (6345). * Fixed wench AI sounds (6284). * Added new experimental entityDef for an automatic turret. * Official missions no longer pretend to be part of 3-mission campaign (6338). * Removed AI PAIN messages console spam. * Removed excessive "s_volume 0" from base loot entityDefs (6346). * Replaced symbol on the proguard's belt. * Default value of com_maxfps increased from 144 to 300. * Improved idEntityPtr, fixed some warnings. dev16854-10518 * High mantle animation has become much faster (6343). * Crouching while on ladder/rope now causes player to slide instantly. * Added "forceShadowBehindOpaque" hack to workaround shadow leaks in old missions (5172). * Fixed and revised underwater "double vision" effect (6300). * Add scratch images have alpha = 1, which fixes some mirror materials (6300). * Added warning if material output color depends on input alpha, fixed it in core assets (6340). * Support several independent user addon scripts (6336). * Fixed missing headbob and footsteps at very high FPS (4696). * Fixed player hanging mid-air in a jump at very high FPS (6333). * Don't crash if player's head does not exist (6326). * Added "fade in fast" options for frobhelper (6342). * Removed "show tooltips" option, now it is always on (6344). * Added default spawnarg values to "text" debug entityDef (6325). * Fixed some uninitialized values, float overflows and NaNs across the code. * Reorganized covered furniture models from Seeking Lady Leicester (6289). dev16842-10488 * Major changes in frob/use controls: holding frob does different thing now (6316, thread). * Fixed some electric lights not spawning. * It is no longer necessary to specify extension to reference PNG image. * Added cvar tdm_show_viewpos and command screenshot_viewpos (6331). * Fixed hanging when light is moved through a plane with many visportals (3815, thread). * Fixed multipage readables stuck on empty page, improved page flipping (6313). * Fixed WAV sounds playing in main menu, all sounds are streaming now (6330). * Fixed light leaks along scissor rectangle boundary with soft stencil shadows (thread). * Better subtitles location visualization (6264). * Changed position of subtitle blocks and subtitle font (6264). * Internal refactoring of idImage class (6300). * Fixed rare bug in renderworld raycasting... might happen with particle collisions. * Fixed warnings in newspaper_bridgeport0X core readable GUI (6245). * Added vec4 GUI keyword (6164). * Renamed pm_lean_toggle cvar to tdm_toggle_lean. * Improved "head bob" and "mantle roll" settings in main menu. * Updated FFmpeg to 4.4.4 (6314). Known issues: * Various problems after image refactoring: underwater, mirrors, etc. dev16829-10455 * Allowed to mantle while carrying/manipulating an object (5892, thread). * Allowed to change weapon while mantling or on rope/ladder (6319). * Several leaning improvements (6320, thread). * Parallel shadow-casting lights are deprecated, use parallelSky instead (6306). * Added many menu settings for autoloot body, blackjack helper, and other (6311). * Deleted option for autolooting bodies with one item per frob, added menu setting (6257). * Added cvar to modify all head bobbing settings (6310). * Fixed some corner cases with multiloot (6270). * Fixed frob helper's "always visible" mode (6318). * New&fixed versions of atdm:lamp_electric_square_3_lit_unattached (6315). * Fixed UV map on Stove models (6312). * Reworked r_showPrimitives + deleted code for rendering from CPU buffers. * Shortened name of end-mission autosaves (6294). * Consistent names of various arrows. Known issues: * Some electric lights don't spawn. dev16818-10434 * Fixed projectiles flying through player and enemies sometimes (6292). * Lights with noshadows spawnarg pass through walls again (5172). * Disabled portal flow culling optimization for parallel lights (5172, 6306). * Faster light-entity interactions matching if light is noshadows due to spawnarg (6296). * Compression of images to DXT1/3/5 is done in software (6300). * Cleaned up rounding math routines (6300). * r_showportals 2 is easier to understand now * Changed rules for getting start areas of parallelSky light (6306). dev16814-10408 * Optimized portal flow culling for shadowing lights (5172). * Extended dmap diagnostics to info_portalSettings, improved editor descriptions (6224). * Added test commands: tdm_open_doors and tdm_close_doors. * Minor adjustments to ear-cutting algorithm in dmap. * Minor refactoring in image compression code (6300). dev16809-10394 * r_shadowMapSinglePass is enabled by default now. * Fixed lack of shadows in volumetric lights under r_shadowMapSinglePass (6271). * Fixed interaction rendering on materials with polygonOffset (5868). * Optimized code for finding light-entity interactions on large maps (6296). * Optimized moving shadowing lights: don't create interactions in unreachable areas (5172). * More refactoring in backend: tonemap shader (6271). * Added more covered furniture models (6289). * Added wall models from Seeking Lady Leicester (6293). Known issues: * Some noshadows lights no longer pass through walls. dev16801-10370 * Supported -durationExtend for inline subtitles (6262). * Added blue noise dithering to tonemap shader, which fixed color banding of fog (6271). * Optimized away unnecessary render copy under "useNewRenderPasses 1" (6271). * Refactored blend and fog lights into new backend architecture. For troubleshooting, reduce cvar useNewRenderPasses to 1 or 0 (6271). * Added 30 case to max FPS selection in settings menu. dev16792-10357 * Fixed particles bound to animated joints (6099). * idVec3 is no longer initialized to zero by default (6280). * Integrated Address Sanitizer tool and fixed a few found bugs (6280). dev16789-10349 * Deleted old backend completely + some cleaning (6271). * Fixed map icon wrong name (thread). * Now light entities support noPortalFog spawnarg (6282). * Support fonts aspect ratio correction (6283). * Fixed playerstart customization (thread). * Refactored "render pass" part into new backend architecture. For troubleshooting, try cvar "useNewRenderPasses 0". Also "textures/particles/blacksmokepuff" now works (6271) * Now arithmetic expressions in materials support min/max functions (6271). * Minor initialization cleanup (6280). dev16785-10319 * "r_shadowMapSinglePass 1" now respects noselfshadows flag (6271). * Continued refactoring in shadow maps and render-pass shaders (6271). dev16783-10307 * Backported new rendering backend to uniforms, should work like the old one now (6271). * "Auto" lockpicking difficulty now unlocks pin from after one cycle (6256). * Added "auto-search bodies" feature under tdm_autosearch_bodies cvar (6257). * Added r_shadowMapAlphaTested cvar for single-pass shadow maps (6271). dev16781-10289 * Added first version of direction and volume cues to subtitles (6264). * Allow subtitles to extend duration of sound sample (6262). * Improved slot allocation algorithm for subtitles, a subtitle no longer changes slot (6264). * Fixed bug that stereo sample plays for 2x duration due to length confusion. * Upgraded libpng and rebuilt third-party packages. * Internal fixes of depth bounds test asserts. dev16778-10275 * Allow limited mantling with a shouldered body (5892). * Fixed toggle creep and improved settings layout in the menu (6242). * Fixed bounding boxes of animated entities and particles, enabled r_useEntityScissors by default (6099). * Trigger call_on_exit before call_on_entry when switching locations. * Don't expand bounds of surfaces with turbulent deform (5990). * Removed "gui" spawnarg on GUI message to avoid first frame (6117). Known issues: * Particles bounds to animated joints broken. Changelog of earlier versions can be found here.

One of basic rules of level design is that a map has to be fun to navigate. And yet even the most seasoned authors seem to struggle with that, to the point that some players are led to believe that player movement in TDM is clunky, which couldn't be further from the truth. So I thought it would be good to have a reference test map to check player abilities and blockout your geometry accordingly. This is by no means final, but hopefully it will give you some idea about when the player movement shines, and what should be avoided. For the sake of simplicity I tested the most common measurements and indicated when things start to be trial and error. Feel free to extend the map with your own ideas, more granular measurements, etc. mantle_ref.pk4

Thanks: Really sounds like that bug must be the case and what I'm experiencing. Question is if we can use any workarounds on DR's end, which like you said is itself very questionable. I think there would be one way actually: What if DR didn't require cursor wrapping at all? Just translate mouse movement as it happens and don't care where the mouse pointer is located! If the flag is available snap the pointer to the center of the windows / screen for sanity's sake, but if not let it go everywhere without translating the view based on it. At worst this could be done by comparing the mouse movement only between every two frames / ticks, instead of caring about the pointer's start position and expecting it to be in the center?

I had a look at the C++ code, here's what I found (I'm no expert). There is code that attempts to deal with AI being blocked when on a path. Specifically, MovementSubsystem::CheckBlocked has this line: if (traveledPrev < 0.1) // movement is very close to zero traveledPrev is the distance travelled during the previous cycle. If this check is true, the system thinks that the AI might be blocked, and it starts processing movement a bit differently. With most AI, their walking speed is such that this check only happens when they bump into something. But the spider_child walks so slowly that sometimes this check happens even when isn't blocked. I think that's what is happening here - normal walking by the spider results in the movement subsystem thinking that the spider is blocked, so it has the spider back up and try a different path. So the spider looks like it is doing an animal patrol. The walking speed of an AI is determined by its walking animation. To test my theory, I made a custom spider_child that uses the ai_spider's animation, and sure enough, it followed the corner paths correctly (because it is walking faster). The downside is, the spider_child looked weird as heck, because the animation is made for a larger spider. So this really isn't a solution. Maybe the spider_child animation needs to be modified (sped up)? Or the code needs to handle slower creatures? I don't know. This explains why your timescale change allowed the spider to follow the paths - by speeding it up, it was moving fast enough to avoid that check in the C++ code. Edit: If you set "anim_rate_walk" to 1.6 or greater on the spider_child, it seems to work fine. Give it a try.

Creating a new thread for this as it was being discussed in an old beta-testing thread starting here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21822-beta-testing-high-expectations/&do=findComment&comment=490751 I suppose the main questions are: when should this spawnarg be used, if at all? why was it introduced in the first place? Can we get it documented properly on the Wiki so misuse isn't propagated? @stgatilov @Dragofer

Yes, toggle-grabber is what I meant because hold-grabber doesn't feel good if you have to press movement keys (or the mouse, depending on controls) at the same time.

Hello! Tracking down information on software and plug-ins that work with D3 / TDM can be a tough. So I have created a thread here where people can post what software/ plug-ins/ tutorials or other references they've had success or failure with in TDM. 3DS MAX 2013 64bit .ase - Default .ASE model exporter works. However you have to open the .ase file in text edit and manual change the *BITMAP line on each material to read something like: "//base/textures/common/collision" which allows the engine to read the correct material path. md5.mesh / animation - Beserker's md5 exporter/importers for 3dsmax. http://www.katsbits.com/tools, Importing and exporting works. The model must be textured, UV'd, with a skin modifier attached to the bones to export. PM me (Kingsal) for help with this. Imported models using the script will not be weighted appropriately, so this is not recommended if you are simply trying to edit existing tdm content. (Use blender instead) MAYA 2011 32bit md5.mesh - So far I've not had any luck with Maya 2011. I am using Greebo's MayaImportx86 for Maya 2011. I've got the importer working however I get a "Unexpected Internal Failure(kFailure)" and the import fails. This could be due to something finicky in Maya that I am not doing correctly. Will keep trying.. Blender 2.7 about - Blender is commonly used and pretty well supported on the forums/ wiki. Various versions may work as well - https://www.blender.org/download/ md5.mesh / animation Blender MD5 importer/exporter (io_scene_md5.zip): https://sourceforge.net/projects/blenderbitsbobs/files/ Sotha's guide Blender Male/ Female rigs by Arcturus - Here Edit by Dragofer: more links found in this post.

Looking at the code, the originals were "pm_mantle_pull 750" and "pm_mantle_pullFast 450". The new "pm_mantle_pull" value is "400". A "pm_mantle_pullFast" value of "450" would be slower than regular pull, not faster. With both being set to "400", they are at least similar. Other than that, it's subjective and the feedback from playtesters was positive. Also, referenced internally here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22256-movementcontrols-settings-in-main-menu/&do=findComment&comment=489158