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The Dark Mod 2.13 has been released! A new era in accurate AI Vision! When id Software released the Doom 3 modding SDK, The Dark Mod team saw the potential for something more than a multi-player cops vs robbers game like Thievery UT. The sheer amount of access to essential game-play systems meant that a true Thief style experience could potentially be created. One of the first things the team did was to investigate how a light-gem system could be implemented. Having a good way for both the player and AI to know when the player is visible to others is a crucial part of the Thief experience so if we couldn’t build it then the dream of a Thief style experience was over. Fortunately, there were enough parts of the AI visual logic and more than a few stub pieces of the Render code that gave us the ability to build a robust system. The downside of the light-gem system was performance. Even though we did our best to limit the viewport and resolution of the light-gem image captures, often the light-gem would cut FPS in half ( or less ). This was pretty painful, especially since most computers could just barely run vanilla Doom 3 at acceptable FPS. After this system was fully functional, other aspects of AI vision were investigated. Obviously, we could not afford to run the light-gem render for every object or body the AI might see so it was decided that the AI would do a more simplified light-gem calculation for things other than the player. This meant that ( to the AI visual scan ) all light volumes would be either cubes or pyramids with perfect exponential falloff. We would run a line-of-sight check to the objects then ( if it hit ) calculate the pixel brightness by the location of the spot in relation to the center of the light(s). This was far cheaper than rendering the whole scene but heavily impacted accuracy. Many solutions were proposed to improve things but a solution evaded us for years. 2.13 changes things! Now we have a "stochastic sampler" model that does regular measurements of the actual light volume pixels and builds a "running average" of how illuminated different entities are. The days of seeing knocked-out AI in the middle of a bright spotlight get ignored are over. Now all AI and loot entities (etc) essentially have their own light-gem and it performs excellently! Magnificent Mission Management! Daft Mugi has drastically improved the GUI menus for mission management. The Dark Mod mission list and in-game downloader now have a search filter window that follows modern conventions of reducing the listed items as each new letter eliminates a possible matching mission name. Both lists can be sorted by actual name ( The Rats Triumphant ) or Chicago Style ( Rats Triumphant, The ). Additional mission details ( readme data ) can now be scrolled so players can see more information about the mission without having to navigate to the darkmod/fms folders. The menus have also been tuned with smaller font sizes for more practical mission listing and have been hardened against buggy order of operations issues so that you will be far less likely to encounter strange issues or crashes when downloading and installing missions. Parallax Occlusion Mapping! Stgatilov has added the oft requested POM feature to the latest Dark Mod release! WellingtonCrab has coordinated with him to provide examples and check the functionality and quality. Now The Dark Mod is ready to offer a quantum leap in perceived geometric detail with all sorts of surfaces realistically showing 3D parallax rather than the flatter looking normal maps we usually offer. WellingtonCrab also created many texture variants that are tuned to look better with POM enabled. Other Graphics Goodies! Now cubemaps \ environment maps respect more stage keywords. This means that faked reflections on water shaders can now move in relation to the water texture movement offering a more convincing illusion! Subviews ( cameras, portals, mirrors, xray, etc ) can now be nested. You can now have a skybox render in a camera view, etc. Volumetric lights and particles now render in mirrors! Alpha-tested surfaces get alpha shadows in Shadow Maps mode. Tone-mapping now supports range compression to prevent unwanted overbright areas. Arcturus has introduced some new metal materials that use improved cubemaps as well as skyboxes with clouds that use POM! Stability and Performance! The console variable system ( CVAR ) has been improved to be thread safe. This should resolve some rare crashes that involve weapon scripts that rely on CVAR values. We now automatically detect the number of CPU cores and allocate Jobs based on the detected specifications. Level loading has been given more parallel execution optimizations including optimizations for loading audio samples in parallel. Uncapped FPS is enabled by default so Linux players will not have a poor first time experience and many audio and video playback timing bugs that occur only in classic capped mode are avoided. Finally, Linux vsync support has been greatly improved. Improved Training Mission! The Training Mission is supposed to help players understand the basics of Dark Mod game-play and controls. It was created to coincide with The Dark Mod v1.0 and was not significantly altered until TDM v1.08 ( when Bikerdude did some texture replacement for 2.0 standalone and improved the overall visuals ). As such, many new game-play features that were added since 1.0 were never included in the mission. Now the mission has been upgraded to include more game-play features such as the Vine Arrow as well as getting further visual upgrades and EFX Reverb! Drunken AI! Now that the AI have better visual accuracy, Amadeus decided to balance things out by fixing many of the broken behaviors of Drunken AI so that they are more reliable and consistent for use in missions by default ( no need to extensively customize the defs or use scripting to improve them ). Potions! Dragofer and Amadeus have completed the work on the Slowfall potion originally prototyped by VanishedOne. They also incorporated the invisibility potion by Kingsal ! These now have pre-defined slots in the gameplay menu as well as the default shop menu design. Assets Galore! Along with new POM textures, we now have: A new modular pipe set A new Lampion entity Some new Factory Machine entities Ornate wood and stone relief textures A new AI praying animation A new AI smoking animation And many fixes or improvements to existing assets EFX Reverb Location Preset! Frost_Salamander took some time away from his continued work on the excellent “The Lieutenant” series missions to make EFX reverb setup easier for himself and other mission authors. You can now add EFX preset spawnargs to location entities rather than having to use the EFX def file. Translation Packs! Between TDM 1.06 and 2.0 Tels and the translating community started translating many missions but these translations required that the original mission be altered in a way that made it harder for the mission authors to revise. That meant that translation packs were in limbo being hosted by 3rd party sites \ forums along with their orphaned old missions. The translators over at the Darkfate forums came up with an solution by including not only the translation strings in the translation pack but also the altered map files, GUI defs, etc that had translation work done to them. This would leave the original mission untouched but allow translation packs to override some parts. We have gone through the old archives of these translations and have reworked them to work with the latest version of TDM (and the associated missions). Most of the translations are Russian ( due to the continued work of the Darkfate people ) but many of the early TDM missions also have German, Italian, French, etc translations too. Also Nolok contributed a brand new Catalan menu translation! Subtitles! Datiswous has been creating story subtitles for many of the existing missions in the TDM mission database. Most authors have incorporated these into their official releases, otherwise players can still add them to the FM folder. A detailed list of changes can be seen here: https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=What's_new_in_TDM_2.13 To UPDATE, simply run the tdm_installer.exe file in your darkmod folder. Note that tdm_update.exe is no longer supported, but you can download the new installer from the Downloads page if you don’t have it yet. Please be aware that old saved games will not be compatible with 2.13, so finish any missions you might be in the middle of first! Also, some missions created prior to 2.13 may need to be updated so they will be playable in 2.13. Before upgrading, set TDM to use one of the built-in missions ( Training Mission, A New Job, Tears of St Lucia ) then use the in-game mission downloader to check for updates

btw the latest nvidia driver allows offloading atleast cuda vram to system memory so there is that... performance wise it seems to be workable atleast in the benchmarks avaliable for the Llama model, exLlama shows some improvements but is still in the testing phase. you can find the setting in the nvidia control panel under 3d settings -> cuda policy for fallback to system ram.

I've really enjoyed this mission. Playing most difficult setting, but I can't seem to finish it despite completing all non-optional objectives. I've got the , but it tells me I need to . So are the optional objectives in fact not optional? (I've actually completed all objectives except for "all the loot".) Thanks for any help!

I think I remember someone used seta in a script in some fm and this created a problem elsewhere because the setting was changed globally. Or maybe I'm confusing things.

Victorian cooking book as .xd Today I implemented an idea that I've had in my head for a few days. Since the setting of The Dark Mod also blends with elements from the Victorian era, I started to copy a few first pages from a very popular German cookbook from 1849. The cookbook is one of my favorites. I've attached a few screenshots. The current version of the cookbook is 2025-04-20_b. This book is optimized for the GUI: book_calig_mac_humaine.gui File: davidis_kochbuch_2025-04-20_b.xd I will gradually add more recipes to the cookbook. BTW: Happy Easter

Was not AP it was the SSAA setting that caused massive framedrops at 4x even a 4080 could not play it at more than 40 fps.

Inn Business It's business, at an inn, over three nights. Development screenshots: Download: https://drive.google...dit?usp=sharing Update 1.48 uploaded March 8th, 2014, one change: patches key rarely not being frobable in one of its possible spots Big thanks to my beta testers: Airship Ballet, Kyyrma and AluminumHaste! Development supporters of note: Sotha, Springheel and Obsttorte. Also thanks Sotha, for urinating in my mission. ;-) And thanks Kyyrma for the title screen! My appreciation to all forum/wiki contributors, without whom, this wouldn't exist. Thanks to positive commenters on my previous mission too, extra motivation helps! :-) Note this uses campaign features, what you use the first night, impacts subsequent nights. And to quote a tester, "...the level is maybe best experienced in more than one sitting". If you do pause between nights, please be sure to save, you can't begin partway through effectively. (If you accidentally start a night you already completed, just fail the kill objective to switch to another night.) If your frame rates are too low facing the cemetery, please reduce your "Object Details LOD" setting. It was designed with "AI Vision" set to "Forgiving", to be able to sneak through with minimal reactions, if you want more/less, adjust your settings accordingly. There are several random, conditional aspects, and ways of going about things, so others might have slightly different experiences. Post here if you discover hidden objectives for extra points! My condolences to loot completionists, I made a bit on the third night hard, you've got your challenge cut out for you! Speaking of which, there's a TDM bug that mission complete totals too high, here are the real amounts per night: 2026/970/202. Oh, there is something that in the U.S. would be rated PG, in case you play with kids in earshot. I hope you enjoy playing it, feel free to let me know you did, and I'm glad to respond to inquiries (like how stuff was done, nothing was scripted). (Note which night you are referring to if it's something specific.) (Please remember spoiler tags to not expose things meant to be discovered by playing.) Like so: [spoiler]secrets[/spoiler] Developed for TDM 2.01. PS: Thiefette, good news, no spiders! Springheel, if you find an optional objective you can skip...you might find it immersion breaking. Others, no undead! There are a couple other interactive critters though. :-) Edit note: Some posts below were from users of an unreleased version of TDM 2.02 which broke several things, they do not reflect regular game-play.

I did a bit of digging through the forum settings and I could not find any configuration for this. Looking at the underlying code, the comment count per page is hardcoded to 3. I could update the code, but I'm reluctant to do so as this would need to be re-applied after each update. That being said, it looks like we should start to brace for status updates being removed as Invision Forums v5 no longer supports status updates (we're still on v4.x): https://invisioncommunity.com/deprecation-tracker/status-updates-r19/ https://invisioncommunity.com/forums/topic/480551-status-updates-have-been-removed-in-v5/

And some info can be found on this forum topics and wiki. Wiki article: https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Parallax_mapping Topic: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22574-experimental-support-of-parallax-mapping-in-213/

Yet another breaking change, I'm afraid: 6346 Sounds have a bunch of parameters: minDistance maxDistance volume shakes soundClass The base value for each parameter is set in sound shader. However, it can be overridden with a different value in spawnargs (e.g. "s_volume" "-10") or in C++ engine code with SetSoundVolume (used extensively for footsteps). Unfortunately, Doom 3 engine has a special case: setting some parameter to zero means it will not override the base value. So there is no way to override sound volume with 0, because setting zero would mean "use value from sound shader", while setting 0.1 or -0.1 would mean "use volume = 0.1 or -0.1". This behavior causes confusion. It is especially bad when volume is set programmatically, because e.g. volume of player footsteps is computed as a sum of many modifiers (run, crouch, creep, in water, etc.) and it is hard to be sure you don't get zero sum in the end. The idea is to fix this mess and add a "don't override" special value in the system. Speaking of spawnargs, it would work like this: "s_volume" "13.4" = override with value 13.4 "s_volume" "0" or "s_volume" "0.0" = override with zero "s_volume" "" (empty string) = don't override Right now there are tons of zero values set in these spawnargs. It is not clear where the author intended to override with zero, and where he wanted to drop inherited override and use base value. I guess for compatibility reasons I'll have to replace spawnargs "s_volume" "0" with "s_volume" "" in all missions.

I looked through the wiki and it doesn't seem that complicated. I don't want to spend the time to learn DarkRadiant enough to create testing rooms with different reverbs (I don't use it at all and when I tried it I spent too much time on basics like where to save which definition files and how to correctly use them etc.) so I'm not going to be super helpful here, but I looked through this thread dealing with that exact issue: And through this page: https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Setting_Reverb_Data_of_Rooms_(EAX) It seems like the parameters in the version 2 of EAX Reverb are relatively sane, you only need a few of them and according to the linked thread (it includes a couple examples) it should be possible to just take existing presets and modify a couple parameteres that need to be modified. One important part of the wiki is the image of the table with existing parameters and their allowed ranges. It also contains contains a link to OpenAI EFX manual section that explains all the parameters in reasonably plain english: https://usermanual.wiki/Pdf/Effects20Extension20Guide.90272296/view#95 The way I understand it the parameters are used without the AL_EAXREVERB_ prefix and the most important one is the GAIN parameter, which controls how loud the reverb/echo is compared to the original sound, its default value is 0.32 and allowed range is 0.0 - 1.0, so setting it somewhere lower than 0.32 would be a good start. The second is DECAY_TIME, set in seconds, range 0.1 - 20.0: the larger the room, the longer the decay time, but at the same time the more filled with absorbent materials it is (carpets, beds, armchairs but also full bookcases), the shorter the decay and quieter the the gain. There are other parameters that would allow you to make the reverbs and echos more sophisticated, but these two should be enough to fix the big problems.

Hello taffers, the people over at TTLG forums have started a speedbuild game jam. 1st Thief Speedbuild Jam It's not a contest, and you have a tentative submission date of Dec 1, to get a mission built for T1-3 or TDM. Looks fun, and I'm going to participate too.

Try setting s_device to sysdefault or pipewire in the TDM console or Darkmod.cfg

Oohhhh, the day has come! This old lurker releases another creation of his deranged mind...! What has he in store? Does it involve sunlight and pollen and hayfever? Will it involve strange towers and priests with bad breath? Naah, just some mediocre airship type of mission, aimed at the Anniversary mapping contest! I have a lengthy/humourly rant/lore for some of the building process for anyone interrested, in spoiler tags. According to DarkRadiant I have worked 570 hours on this, and that doesn't take into account all hours of coding and scripting. This feels like an insanely huge amount of mapping time for this small mission but I try not to judge myself. DarkRadiant says 570 so...I say thanks to all calm hours at the night shift at work where I could sit and script and write readables. And I also humbly bow myself to the scripting genuses that are on the forums. A special thanks to my girlfriend who (almost) always lets me talk about my projects. She has also written some of the readables and voiced some recordings in the mission. Thanks to Dragofer, Mirceakitsune and Melchior for much needed scripting help. Thanks to YouTube channels BGM President and Sound Effects where I've borrowed some music and sound effects. Thanks to my betatesters; nbohr1more, Bergante, datiswous, Wesp5, nightmare, Jaxa and Cambridge Spy. And a big thank you to the mod in general for still being alive and supportive! ########################################## MISSION RELATED STUFF ########################################## On an airship, heading for Flowerdale a lot of strange things can happen. As some people guzzle down liquor in the bar, some others skulk around in the shadows. Certain people cannot be trusted and there are even those that kill for a living. Somebody may or may not work for foreign powers. But everyone yearns for those shiny pennies. There are some strange things in the cargo, huge coffers that can hold bodies, alive and dead. This story may unfold in several different ways; Three characters can be chosen; Zacharias the thief, Oliver Mortimer, the assassin or Rupert Peabody, youngling of the Wizlas woodfolk. DOWNLOAD LINK https://drive.google.com/file/d/10w_SJSBAxxVFYTwPjJhIo48fEzvuTo1M/view?usp=sharing

heh and i just got used to my 16 core ryzen , guess it will soon be time for another upgrade if games start using multithreading in the extreme. or maybe not, my current 2080 ti runs just as fast as a 3080 with a slight overclock and has a little more ram so im pretty happy with it for now. one thing that bothers me with the raytracing in alan wake 2 is that it is much faster when i enable path tracing which should actually be slower huh ?!?. is this a bug or does the setting actually disable it instead of enabling it. with it disabled on medium raytracing i get around 30 fps with pathtracing on i get allmost double that

One thing that was uncomfortable for me when I started playing The Dark Mod was how much the view tilted during a mantle. This is similar to the amount of head bob. For those who are sensitive to motions like that as well, I've attached a patch. I hope it or a variation of it will be accepted into the main The Dark Mod codebase, since it'll help those players. The new cvar "pm_mantle_tilt_mod" is a value between 0.0 and 1.0. The default is 1.0, which means no change from the traditional tilt view angle. A value of 0.0 is no tilt. I personally prefer 0.1, which tilts the view only 10% of the traditional amount. idCVar cv_pm_mantle_tilt_mod( "pm_mantle_tilt_mod", "1.0", CVAR_GAME | CVAR_FLOAT | CVAR_ARCHIVE, "The multiplier applied to the tilt view angle during a mantle", 0.0f, 1.0f ); (Patch based on r10036.) Edit The finalized version present in TDM 2.11. "pm_mantle_roll_mod" default:"1.0" The multiplier applied to the roll view angle during a mantle mantle-tilt-mod-v1-r10036.diff

Not unless it sets that when setting everything else to the highest setting ?, and sorry about the typos i was writing from my phone

Howdy! With recent discussions around shader design and rim \ fresnel, I decided to try adding this effect back to the 2.09 ambient. tdm_base01.pk4 (Bug fixed. You can now have bloom enabled! Recommended setting: r_postprocess_colorCurveBias to 0.35 Installation: Rename your tdm_base01.pk4 in your darkmod directory and copy this into that directory.

...weird. Well, setting private to 0 in darkradiant on the given speaker didn't cause the sound effect to play, but there is a different sound shader (ambient/ambience/hit_low01) that plays an identical sounding (to me) .ogg file and seems to work just fine. I was worried it was affecting all triggered sounds or something like that. Any reason to think this might have specifically cropped up in 2.13? Otherwise, I guess I have my sound effect so I'm all set.

@stgatilov Even better news! The following commit fixed this issue regardless of r_tonemapOnlyGame3d setting. r10930 | stgatilov | 2025-01-25 | 7 lines Clear background during main menu. This fixes the issue e.g. with AT1: Lucy and tonemap disabled. The briefing there does not use any backgrounds, and no-clear policy results in HOM-like effects. Originally reported here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22635-beta-testing-213/#findComment-499723

Perhaps something related to You could try setting s_overrideParmsMode cvar to 0 as a test. If it works again, you'll know to change one of the volume spawnargs to make it work when s_overrideParmsMode is set to 1. For 2.13 missions, s_overrideParmsMode should be set to 1. You can also set s_overrideParmsMode to 2 to get a console message if there is a difference between old and new behavior.

This used to happen in (at least) 2.12 as well. Press escape while a tip is being displayed and it will stay with you even when watching the credits. Fortunately the tip goes away when a mission starts. I am not not totally sure I get what you mean but... This is normal and probably unavoidable. The space is limited. Try setting Print Screen and Capslock to any control. So far this is but it isn't a "TDM 2.13 issues" thread, imho. Consider a different name for the topic not to mislead an audience eager to try the new version!

I'll check that out today. Not sure if I'll be able to "fix" the mod or what such a fix would even look like. Ran through Hazard Pay on expert for a few minutes, and the autosave script did manage to create a save at the five minute interval. So, as written, this mod overrides the intent of the FM author and just makes saves for you anyways. Not sure how I feel about that. On one hand, its a player side "accessibility" mod so it does make sense that it would take precedence and not respect the setting. On the other hand, the whole point of this fm difficulty option is that you can't just save whenever you want and you need to use Resident Evil style "typewriter ink", which this mod renders irrelevant and that feels pretty bad. Is there some cvar I could check in the autosave script to see if manual saving is disabled? And is that cvar fm specific to Hazard Pay or would it be reasonably future proof for other fms that may want to do something similar in the future? Stretching ideas a bit further, how much scripting work would it take to have this mod add options to the options menu? Would be nice to have sliders to control the slot count, save time interval, and a tri-bool setting for "enabled", "enabled unless the FM says no manual saves are allowed", or "disabled". btw, great FM so far @kingsal .

@nbohr1more, I just recently noticed that back in Oct you reported in https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152771 I didn't see anything about this in the current "What's New in 2.13". Will this new functionality actually happen for 2.13, and if so what FMs can now be re-downloaded to get the enhanced translation packs? Particularly "early TDM missions [that] also have German, Italian, French, etc translations". Pointer to any new bugtracker/forum/wiki info about this appreciated.

Complaint From Players The player must pick up candles before extinguishing them, and then the player must remember to drop the candle. The player must drag a body before shouldering it (picking it up), and the player must remember to frob again to stop dragging the body. The player finds this annoying or easy to make mistakes. For players who ghost, some of them have the goal of returning objects back to their original positions. With the current "pick up, use item, and drop" system, the item might not return easily or at all to its original position. For example, a candlestick might bounce off its holder. (See player quotes at the bottom.) Bug Tracker https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6316 Problems to Solve How can the "pick up" step be eliminated so that the player can directly use or interact with the item where it is in the game world? How can so much key pressing and mouse clicking be eliminated when the player wants to directly use an item? How can candles be extinguished and lanterns toggled off/on without first picking them up? How can bodies be shouldered without first dragging them? Solution Design Goals Make TDM easier for new players while also improving it for longtime players. Reduce tedious steps for common frob interactions. Make it intuitive so that menu settings are unnecessary. Do not introduce bugs or break the game. Terms frob -- the frob button action happens instantly. hold frob -- the frob button is held for 200ms before the action happens. (This can be changed via cvar: 200ms by default.) Proposed Solution Note: Some issues have been struckthrough to show changes since the patch has been updated. Change how frobbing works for bodies, candles, and lanterns. For bodies: Frob to shoulder (pick up) a body. Second frob to drop shouldered body, while allowing frob on doors, switches, etc. Hold frob (key down) to start drag, continue to hold frob (key down) to drag body, and then release frob (key up) to stop dragging body. Also, a body can be dragged immediately by holding frob and moving the mouse. For candles/lanterns: Frob to extinguish candles and toggle off/on lanterns. Hold frob to pick it up, and then frob again to drop. Frob to pick it up, and then frob again to drop. Hold frob to extinguish candles and toggle off/on lanterns. For food: Frob to pick it up, and then frob again to drop. Hold frob to eat food. For other items: No change. New cvar "tdm_frobhold_delay", default:"200" The frob hold delay (in ms) before drag or extinguish. Set to 0 for TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior. Solution Benefits Bodies: New players will have less to learn to get started moving knocked out guards. With TDM v2.11 and earlier, some players have played several missions before realizing that they could shoulder a body instead of dragging it long distances. Frob to shoulder body matches Thief, so longtime Thief players will find it familiar. Second frob drops a shouldered body. Players still have the ability to both shoulder and drag bodies. Compatible with the new auto-search bodies feature. Dragging feels more natural -- just grab, hold, and drop with a single button press. There is no longer the need to press the button twice. Also, it's no longer possible to walk away from a body while unintentionally dragging it. Set "tdm_frobhold_delay" cvar to delay of 0 to restore TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior. Candles: New players will have less to learn to get started extinguishing candles. With TDM v2.11 and earlier, some players didn't know they could extinguish candles by picking them up and using them. Instead, they resorted to throwing them to extinguish them or hiding them. Hold frob to extinguish a candle feels like "pinching" it out. Once a candle is picked up, players still have the ability to manipulate and use them the same way they are used to in TDM v2.11 and earlier. For players who ghost and have the goal of putting objects back to their original positions, they'll have an easier time and not have to deal with candles popping off their holders when trying to place them back carefully. Set "tdm_frobhold_delay" cvar to delay of 0 to restore TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior. Solution Issues Bodies: Frob does not drop a shouldered body, so that might be unexpected for new players. This is also different than Thief where a second frob will drop a body. "Use Inv. Item" or "Drop Inv. Item" drops the body. This is the same as TDM v2.11 and earlier. This is the price to pay for being able to frob (open/close) doors while shouldering a body. Patch was updated to drop body on second frob, while allowing frob on doors, switches, etc. Candles: Picking up a candle or lantern requires a slight delay, because the player must hold the frob button. The player might unintentionally extinguish a candle while moving it if they hold down frob. The player will need to learn that holding frob will extinguish the candle. The player can change the delay period via the "tdm_frobhold_delay" cvar. Also, when the cvar is set to a delay of 0, the behavior matches TDM v2.11 and earlier, meaning the player would have to first "Frob/Interact" to pick up the candle and then press "Use Inv. Item" to extinguish it. Some players might unintentionally extinguish a candle when they are trying to move it or pick it up. They need to make sure to hold frob to initiate moving the candle. When a candle is unlit, it will highlight but do nothing on frob. That might confuse players. However, the player will likely learn after extinguishing several candles that an unlit candle still highlights. It makes sense that an already-extinguished candle cannot be extinguished on frob. The official "Training Mission" might need to have its instructions updated to correctly guide the player through candle manipulation training. Updating the training mission to include the hold frob to extinguish would probably be helpful. Similar Solutions In Fallout 4, frob uses an item and long-press frob picks it up. Goldwell's mission, "Accountant 2: New In Town", has candles that extinguish on frob without the need of picking them up first. Snatcher's TDM Modpack includes a "Blow / Ignite" item that allows the player to blow out candles Wesp5's Unofficial Patch provides a way to directly extinguish movable candles by frobbing. Demonstration Videos Note: The last two videos don't quite demonstrate the latest patch anymore. But the gist is the same. This feature proposal is best experienced in game, but some demonstration videos are better than nothing. The following videos show either a clear improvement or that the player is not slowed down with the change in controls. For example, "long-press" sounds long, but it really isn't. Video: Body Shouldering and Dragging The purpose of this video is to show that frob to shoulder a body is fast and long-press frob to drag a body is fast enough and accurate. Video: Long-Press Frob to Pick Up Candle The purpose of this video is to show how the long-press frob to pick up a candle isn't really much slower than regular frob. Video: Frob to Extinguish The purpose of this video -- if a bit contrived -- is to show the efficiency and precision of this proposed feature. The task in the video was for the player to as quickly and accurately as possible extinguish candles and put them back in their original positions. On the left, TDM v2.11 is shown. The player has to highlight each candle, press "Frob/Interact" to pick up, press "Use Inv. Item" to extinguish, make sure the candle is back in place, and finally press "Frob/Interact" to drop the candle. The result shows mistakes and candles getting misplaced. On the right, the proposed feature is shown. The player frobs to extinguish the candles. The result shows no mistakes and candles are kept in their original positions. Special Thanks @Wellingtoncrab was instrumental in improving this feature during its early stages. We had many discussions covering varying scenarios, pros, and cons, and how it would affect the gameplay and player experience. Originally, I had a completely different solution that added a special "use modifier" keybinding. He suggested the frob to use and long-press frob to pick up mechanics. I coded it up, gave it a try, and found it to be too good. Without his feedback and patience, this feature wouldn't be as good as it is. Thank you, @Wellingtoncrab! And, of note, @Wellingtoncrab hasn't been able to try it in game yet, because I'm using Linux and can't compile a Windows build for him. So, if this feature isn't good, that's my fault. Code Patch I'll post the code patch in another post below this one so that folks who compile TDM themselves can give this proposal a try in game. And, if you do, I look forward to your feedback! Player Complaints TTLG (2023-01-10) Player 1: TDM Forums (2021-03-13) Player 2: Player 3: TDM Forums (2023-06-17) Player 4: TDM Discord (2021-05-18) Player 5: TDM Discord (2023-02-14) Player 6: Player 7: Player 8: