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That sort of tone doesn't fly in our forums.

The first thing you need is to make sure all your script files have inclusion guards so they can only be loaded into the script stack once (these are the #endif lines you see at the start and end of official TDM script files). If you have those, then as long as both your addon and the FM author use the same name for the same .script file there shouldn't be an issue in terms of re-inclusion. Problems can still arise if both the author and you try to initialise the custom script separately, i.e. in this case you would have 2 copies of the stealth statistics scroll. Another issue arises if the FM author overwrites tdm_user_addons.script, which is the case here, because that will overwrite your addons. This is an error that should be corrected by the FM author (they should use tdm_custom_scripts.script, which is designed for mappers to use), and I've already told kingsal about this just now. Ultimately I think it's hard to avoid conflicts if the FM author integrates a user addon into his map. The best thing you can probably do besides what's above is to make sure each of your files and functions has unique names so both copies of the script can run in parallel in peace. Ofc this doesn't help if the author got the addon from your addon pack. We should probably discourage FM authors from integrating addon packs and instead ask them to point players to a download link.

There's a group of players who have meticulously tested and adjusted ghosting rules for The Dark Mod. Please see: Official Ghosting Rules: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148523 Ghost Rules Discussion: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148487 Why alienate an established group of dedicated players?

If the main incentive of restricted saving is to increase tension by forcing the player to adapt to being discovered, I think the game is no longer purely a stealth game, such as Thief or TDM. Once the player is discovered, there is no more stealth involved. It's like an insta-death in a shooter. If we include power fantasies here, the stealth power fantasy is gone. Therefore, it's either a mix of genres or a new yet to be named genre. The new genre could be a "chase game," perhaps? The stealth part is a time to collect resources and put the player in a better position for the inevitable chase. The player is rewarded during the chase instead of during the stealth part. So, my question is: Are game designers actually wanting a different genre than stealth when they restrict saving?

I would use this massive list for any fan missions, it includes campaigns too: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148090 There are a lot of Fan Missions for the picking, I myself go for the lesser known ones and the short variety, because sometimes they hide a gem or two. Just like jaxa, I'm a bit outdated after the temporal retirement, but I do remember some amazing campaigns like "The Black Frog". If you intend to play The Black Frog, you should play the first two of the L'Arsene series missions, it's how I did it myself. Also, yes, L'Arsene are a fantastic series. The first mission of L'Arsene is a "rough draft", author was a bit new to Thief level making, but still great either way, after the 3rd you will see how his skill increased by a massive amount.

Unfortunately, TDM forum deletes the separator between the numbers. So I have to guess where one number ends and the next starts Also, user can rename screenshot manually, or push it through something that would rename it automatically. Thenwe won't see coordinates on screenshot address on forums.

tdm_show_viewpos cvar and screenshot_viewpos command: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22310-212-viewpos-on-player-hud-and-screenshots/

Ambient atmospheres are in my opinion one of the best parts of the Dark Mod experience, not just for getting a mission to have the right feel but also for inspiration and to have them playing in the background when creating maps. The more the merrier, so here's a thread to collect all the links to ambient music and environmental sounds that could have a spot in TDM's setting. Ambients from the TDM forums Gast's Eerie Lullabies Magnanimous Merry's Miscellanea Orbweaver's Dark Ambients Spadey's Ambients Radioteque's Ambients Kyyrma's Composing Ambient Tracks for Dummies - Kyyrma shows how ambient soundtracks can be made from a set of sounds. Also contains some of his finished ambients. Request for more interior sounds - this thread is a very productive community session where members came up with a large and good selection of new ambients. Uncle Peti's Sound Den Dragofer's Ambients - post #6 in this thread SeriousToni's Ambients - posts #8, 12, 15 and 19 in this thread Ambients from the TTLG forums Custom resources list Gigagooga's Ambients 1 - possibly the largest pack of ambient musics and nature sounds, all of them high quality. Gigagooga's Ambients 2 - this pack puts more weight on shorter swells/hits/pads to be layered on top of a subtle ambient. Gigagooga's Ambients 3 Yandros' ambient loop Sephy's Ambients - a large collection of ambient pieces, including many shorter ones which will be valuable for anyone wanting to try a layered ambience approach like in the Thief OMs and Full Moon Fever. Internet databases www.freesound.org - some of the better composers in my opinion are ERH and BrandonNyte. www.purple-planet.com - a large selection of all kinds of ambient and musical soundtracks to be used freely. www.darkwinter.com - an internet label that publishes a lot of dark ambient music under a Creative Commons license. www.endlessascent.com - sister website of Darkwinter for non-dark ambients. Youtube Asatru Dark - also has very nice reference images for outdoor stone memorials, statue arrangements etc. #4 Void by Raffaele du Marteau & #6 Dreaming of Nowhere by Raffaele du Marteau - possibly the most forlorn pieces I've found on the internet. Alacazam - a prolific Creative Commons ambients composer . Cryo Chamber - for-profit label for dark ambient music with a large selection on offer. Going by their Youtube comments they're fine with people using their soundtracks for games etc., although you'd probably need to buy the soundtracks first. Dark Ambient Mixed Session - as much ambient as something to have in the background while mapping.

@kingsal Thanks for the interest. In Hazard Pay you included "script/tdm_user_addons.script" to load @Dragofer's Stealth Statistic Tool and that prevents players from using this file to load additional add-ons. script/tdm_user_addons.script #include "script/tdm_statistic_message.script" void user_addon_init() { statistic_message_init(); } "script/tdm_user_addons.script" comes with a useful "user_addon_init()" that gets called automatically but unfortunately we don't have an equivalent in "script/tdm_custom_scripts.script" so we cannot use "script/tdm_custom_scripts.script" and we must think something else. Unless it is decided to do without the add-on, I propose we make use the map's own script "maps/hazard_night.script" since it comes with a "main()" that gets called by the game automatically, as explained in the Wiki: #include "script/tdm_statistic_message.script" void main() { statistic_message_init(); // rest of your code } Once we do this we can safely delete "script/tdm_user_addons.script". In addition to all this I suggest deleting "script/tdm_frobactions.script" since it is not doing anything other than preventing other mods from working. ----------------------------------------------- Summing up: Replace "maps/hazard_night.script" with the one attached to this post (*). Delete "script/tdm_user_addons.script" Delete "script/tdm_frobactions.script" (*) For this exercise I downloaded a fresh copy of Hazard Pay from the built-in downloader. Happy to discuss further. hazard.zip

DarkRadiant 3.8.0 is ready for download. What's new: Feature: Support new frob-related material keywords Improvement: Mission selection list in Game setup is not alphabetically sorted Improvement: Better distinction between inherited and regular spawnargs Improvement: Silence sound shader button Improvement: Add Reload Definitions button to Model Chooser Fixed: Model Selector widgets are cut off and flicker constantly on Linux Fixed: DarkRadiant will not start without Dark Mod plugins Fixed: GenericEntityNode not calculating the direction correctly with "editor_rotatable" Fixed: RenderableArrow not drawing the tip correctly for arbitrary rotations Fixed: Light Inspector crashes on Linux Fixed: Models glitch out when filtering then showing them Fixed: Skin Editor: models not centered well in preview Fixed: "Copy Resource Path" includes top level folders Fixed: Skin Editor: internal test skins are shown if Material Editor was open previously Fixed: Changing Game/Project doesn't update loaded assets correctly Fixed: Model Chooser: initially hidden materials aren't revealed when enabling them Fixed: Choosing AI entity class 'atdm:townsfolk_commoner_update' causes crash Fixed: Sporadic assertion failure on shutdown due to LocalBitmapArtProvider destruction Fixed: Prefab Selector spams infinite error dialogs on Linux Windows and Mac Downloads are available on Github: https://github.com/codereader/DarkRadiant/releases/tag/3.8.0 and of course linked from the website https://www.darkradiant.net Thanks to all the awesome people who keep using DarkRadiant to create Fan Missions - they are the main reason for me to keep going. Please report any bugs or feature requests here in these forums, following these guidelines: Bugs (including steps for reproduction) can go directly on the tracker. When unsure about a bug/issue, feel free to ask. If you run into a crash, please record a crashdump: Crashdump Instructions Feature requests should be suggested (and possibly discussed) here in these forums before they may be added to the tracker. The list of changes can be found on the our bugtracker changelog. Keep on mapping!

I actually thought of the stealth score label myself: Score implies achieving something positive, but getting caught isn't something to be desired... a more correct name would seem like "stealth penalty". Having it decrease instead of increasing might not be possible though since you can trigger any number of alerts, there isn't a standard amount you can relate to and subtract from so you can come up with a percentage, like for loot where you know the maximum amount on the map.

So, if I understand you, no Thief Gold FM does sound and text notifications of completed objectives? The missions in The Black Parade surely did. I'm completely confused now. I was sure that original Thief Gold had those objective complete notifications (at least the sound). Reading this thread suggests otherwise though: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132977

TDM Modpack v3.6 released in the opening post Introducing... the (Standalone) Flash Grenade Mod v1.0 I see Flashbombs as reliable, chaotic but non-lethal, short-range tools. For this mod Flashbomb properties have been altered to function as such: Flashbombs are clumsy and loud but as effective as ever. Instead of throwing Flashbombs like a cannonball we now toss them. Instead of exploding on impact Flashbombs now have a fuse. Although we can still control the tossing distance with a long key press the range has been greatly reduced or limited. The goal is that players can learn by trial and error where Flashbombs should eventually explode, something extremely difficult to master with the original design. I will not dive into technical details but let me to say that each time I toy with different parameters such as propagation sounds, distances, object physics (gravity, mass, velocity, friction...) I get different but still reasonable results so I don't know anymore what parameters feel best and I settled for the moment on what I present here today. I remain open to suggestions on how to fine-tune Flashbombs further. Flasbombs are powerful and have no mercy with humans: Flashbombs can be useful to distract undead and clear a path: Flashmines may be subject to modding in the future (what do we need them for?) but right now they remained unaltered: The new "ticking" sound comes from the Hazard Pay mission so thanks @kingsal for this wonderful audio file! Speaking of Kingsal, Hazard Pay remains the only mission 100% incompatible with the TDM Modpack. I remain available to assist in solving this situation. I hope you have fun with this new mod. The download link can be found in the opening post. Here's the full changelog: ============================== v3.6 - New release ------------------------------ • STANDALONE FLASH GRENADE MOD v1.0: Initial release. • Modpack: Minor internal corrections, mainly to the Loot/Stealth combo. Cheers!

Greetings everyone! I recently got into TDM and am already having a lot of fun playing through and ghosting missions. However, coming from Thief, I am mostly relying on the rules and my experience with that game, while there are clearly differences in how TDM works. Right now, there is talk in the ghosting discussion thread on TTLG to amend the ruleset and include clarifications pertaining to TDM. So I wanted to drop by and ask: is there an active TDM ghosting community already and have any rules for this playstyle been developed? I would also like to ask someone to take a look at the draft of this addendum to see whether everything looks correct: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148487&page=16&p=2473352&viewfull=1#post2473352 Thanks!

A Problem Arises I've paused subtitling of the Lady02 vocal set, because of a problem with the voice clips described here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21741-subtitles-possibilities-beyond-211/&do=findComment&comment=490151 While a way forward is being determined, I'll work on a different vocal set. Maybe manbeast, for which Kingsal just provided me the voice script.

Of course, it is one of the reasons for the decline of online forums, since the advent of mobile phones. Forums on a mobile are a pain in the ass, but on the other hand, for certain things there are no real alternatives to forums, social networks cannot be with their sequential threads, where it is almost impossible to retrieve answers to a question that is asked. has done days ago. For devs for internal communication, the only thing offered is a collaborative app, such as System D (not to be confused with systemd). FOSS, free and anonymous registration, access further members only by invitation, full encrypted and private. https://www.system-d.org

Show me some receipts then. Cool features are cool because they create cool moments and stories. For example, mantling is super cool. If a guard is chasing you and there is a low roof nearby you can mantle up to make a clutch escape. And maybe then you find a hidden vent or something and your entire approach to the level changes. That's a cool moment and a cool story. Similarly, pinching out candles is super cool because it can create moments where the player needs to rush across a room and pinch out a candle before an enemy rounds spots them, changing how the player will approach the room. And I will freely admit, stacking boxes and planks with TDM's physics objects system is super cool. It opens up a lot of platforming possibilities. But where is the equivalent for the ragdoll bodies or being able to pick up and turn over every apparently-not-silver teapot? Ragdoll bodies could be cool if, for example, you could stuff bodies into chests or under beds to hide them. However I don't think anyone does that. Usually it won't work because the body won't fit and you will make a huge racket in the process of trying. In fact it is super-lame because it seems like TDM should allow that kind of gameplay with the ragdolls feature, but it doesn't. Same with object manipulation. What does picking up and manipulate every (non-valuable) plate, hat, cup, and apple actually let you do? You can throw them to distract guards, but that would also be true if they just went into your inventory, like bottles in other stealth games. There could also be loot or important items hidden under them, except in practice it can't be anything important because TDM's object selection is imprecise and its collisions tend to send objects flying or clipping into the world. So what we actually gets is coins and purses hidden under hats... gripping. Edit: Note, I'm not saying these gimmicky features should be removed though. That would break back compatibility with older missions, which no one wants. But we should stop giving object manipulation place-of-pride over more impactful mechanics like shouldering bodies in our tutorials, FMs, and default control bindings.

It's a good idea to disguise the protagonist, it's othing new in some other games (Hitman and even in the old Postal 2, where the protagonist use a police uniform) But what bothers me the most in TDM is not this, but that a Thief, from the sound of his steps, seems to be wearing heavy boots with nails instead of light sneakers that facilitate stealth and climbing, which does not at all agree with the rest of his ninja outfit.

I hear you. I don't disagree with this. A successfully completed mission can have moments of stealth, being discovered, and returning to stealth. And, that has its own sense of rewards and immersion. That can be quite fun. My comment was about pure stealth, the power fantasy of stealth, and ghosting, since Marbleman's preferred playstyle is ghosting and was part of the original question. If the player is discovered, that power fantasy is broken. Sure, for a ghoster, they might be able to recover, regain stealth, and successfully complete the mission, but their desired experience is broken. There's an objective in their mind of "don't alert anyone" and possibly "don't leave a single trace behind." Do they start the entire mission over or load a save? With save restrictions, they must restart the entire mission over or load from a checkpoint. That's not fun. So, why would a game designer put save restrictions on the player when the player, who wants to be forced to recover from their mistakes, can just not save (or unbind the quicksave key)? Players who iron mode do this.

@Daft MugiI don't think so, but I don't really think "stealth" is much of a genre of games. Thief is part of a legacy of games which have grown beyond being describable as "stealth" games. Most modern "stealth" or simulation focused games simply make alternative playstyles more viable and games well outside what you might consider the normal reach of such things have started to appropriate stealth and simulation mechanics. Deus Ex, Breath of the Wild, The Last of Us 1 & 2, Metal Gear Solid 5, Dishonored 1 &2, Prey, Hitman, Modern Wolfenstein, The Evil Within 2, Elden Ring - all are or can played as "stealth" games. In none of these does detection feel like an irreversible fail state because the player actually has the kind of options that allow them to keep playing. This has to hold up if you want to consider save restrictions, and most of these games don't go that far anyway. Thief is actually better at this than TDM - a quick flash bomb can end an issue with being detected really quickly. In TDM the game does not hold up very well. Try the same thing and you will likely just blind yourself. Good luck knocking out the ai you manage to hit with the bomb as they go through a single cycle animation and then stand like statues for a few brief seconds before they resume hunting you down or you manage slink into the darkness and then into an incredibly long cool down period for the simulation to reset. Try to fight back and whatever blows you manage will land with the impact of a sponge. It's rare that players engage with this part of the game, so the design is not as "robust" so to speak. In this context reloading the game makes an awful lot of sense to me, and taking that ability away makes very little unless you contend with that in designing your mission. You can see maybe how this informs the design of Deathloop (which is not entirely successful imo) - Dishonored is game which holds up very well when the player is detected, but rarely did players who quickly found a comfortable and repeatable method to play engage with and see more than a sliver of the game. Whether players wanted to see more or not I don't know, but the designers were obviously interested in seeing if they could get players out of this mold. So Deathloop makes the player contend with the consequences and then theoretically leverage more aspects of the game, but in return it attempts to make the risk very low and the opportunity to experiment and try the same scenario with a different approach very high. The game is designed for you to play scenarios over and over again - so there isn't much risk in starting over when you're going to be doing this anyway and if you're going through the same content you're likely to want to change things up every once in a while. Did it entirely work? No. Was it interesting to play? On aggregate it more or less worked for me, though I would have preferred Dishonored 3. Am I happy they tried something a little new even if it didn't work entirely? Yes. So why should there be save restrictions? Because we should be open as players and creators to trying new things. We don't have to like them and they don't have to work the first time, but it's how we grow.

But isn't stealth gone only temporarily? They calm down again with just their weapon readied from now on. You don't consider it to be stealth after first detection at all? I don't feel like it's "insta-death" when I get detected. Stealth is hard, so it doesn't really bum me out when I get made at rare instances. I even enjoy the sudden change of pace that the chase forces on me, and in some cases it makes it easier to reach my objectives. I feel like in this universe it is common for those who hold valuables, to have frequent unwanted visitors, and when normally it feels wrong in stealth games for AI to "go back to normal", the setting of TDM really makes it much more immersive. They have no alarms to sound the whole town with, nor do they have effective tools to lure you out of hiding. Their best bet is just to keep their eyes open and ready themselves. You proceed further from them, and will soon encounter AI who knows nothing about the nearby alert. Depending on map of course. Also, I might even go as far as to say that successful evasion during chase still is a practice of your stealth skill. The manner by which you return to becoming invisible.

Black Parade is released ! https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152429

I've applied some fixes for the 2 stealth statistics issues that I'm aware of: 1) fleeing civilians don't add to stealth score or total sighting time if they were suddenly fully alerted at a close distance. 5286 2) combatant AIs fighting you in darkness, using their sense of touch to detect your position, don't add to stealth score or total sighting time. 6186 I think these changes missed the window for inclusion in 2.11 beta build 1, so it'll probably be in 2.11b2. I've tweaked kcghost's inventory item stealth counter to show "total time seen" instead of "bodies found", which should be useful for anyone interested in betatesting.z_tdm_loot_stealth_stats.pk4 For people who can already build the latest code from source, you'll also need a modified AI scriptobject, which goes into the script folder: tdm_ai.script @Araneidae The 1st issue you described in CoS sounds like another matter than those issues I addressed. You say you never seemed to alert anyone, but the objectives considered you spotted?

Body awareness please. https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/20013-are-you-gonna-add-this/

I loved it. Awesome game. I faceplanted at the people who asked for quest markers in the Steam forums there... Herr, lass Hirn regnen. The game is so great, and so true to the original, because it doesn't hold your hand. When is the new breed of gamers gonna learn.