Fan Mission: The Ravine by Spoonman (17/04/2017)

[NeonsStyle]

You should treat this release as a beta test, then fix anything that's been found then do a full release when it's all perfect.

[Oldjim]

A small way through the mission and it really needed beta testing

One thing puzzles me - what is the rational of having servants/pagans mixed up with skeletons

As others have said the low ambient lighting in the caverns is really annoying and makes navigation very difficult

This is a personal opinion but I don't think the water columns work as they aren't flowing water

[fraten]

I might be late to the party, but I just finished the mission and although I enjoyed almost every minute it still puzzles me, because - apart from the introduction - there is no context given (no readables in the mission). So I finished the mission, but I am somewhat unsatisfied with the result - what did I just see there? Why?

So, if you consider an update of the mission, please include some readables. Because, you know, it is never about the loot, but always about the story and the involvement.

[AluminumHaste]

For everyone complaining about the ambient being too low.

Open the pk4 file with Winzip, open the .map file with Notepad++ (Notepad will choke on a file over a few megabytes).

Do a search for ambient_world, you'll see this:

 

// entity 1
{
"classname" "atdm:ambient_world"
"name" "ambient_world"
"_color" "0.020 0.020 0.020"
"light_center" "0 0 0"
"light_radius" "10944 8672 2688"
"nodiffuse" "0"
"noshadows" "0"
"nospecular" "0"
"origin" "-1376 184 -768"
"parallel" "0"
"texture" "lights/ambientlightnfo"
}

Change the _color to "0.050 0.050 0.050"

 

Click File->Save

 

Winzip will ask if you want to update the archive, click yes.

 

Wait while Winzip/PowerArchiver rebuilds the archive and you're all set.

 

It seems like a lot of steps, but it's really not.

 

I personally use PowerArchiver as it's amazing compared to most other Zip programs.

 

EDIT: I also tried a value of 0.080 and that seems more in line with what I'm used to in most missions. But like the author said, it was done on purpose but that doesn't change the fact that you can modify the map how you want. No DMAP is required with this change.

[Sotha]

Played this last night and now.

 

Feels like my mind was raped. Ow, yep, It hurt a bit, but I kinda liked it in a perverse manner, in the end.

 

 

 

HUGE mission. I do not know when was the last time I was hopelessly lost in a computer game. I've pretty good sense of direction, but this mission had me completely stumped. In general I do not like being lost. But it is so rare, I decided to embrace the feeling of being hopelessly lost. I wandered around, found the castle. Wandered wandered wandered. Then I realized I do not have any idea where to go, and no map, so I started clearing areas out the guards so I could backtrack faster. That was fun gameplay. "Seems like any other night *THUD* Unhhh! *Stash body somewhere (not many places to hide them!)"

 

Somehow I knew I had to go upwards. I do not know how, but somehow you managed to convey it to me without any directions. I guess I saw the wood planks in the ceiling and realized I have to go there. Also I heard a nobleman's voice from above and that's how I got the idea to go up. I wandered and wandered. It was very easy to get lost because the geometry did not make any sense. That was your intention, I got it immediately when I got to the warped reality part. Or when I found the water columns one can swim upwards.

 

It felt like a nightmare, room after room after room that did not make any sense. Like a weird faerytale, or, well... a nightmare. I do not mean this in the negative way. This mission was art! My mind demanded some readable to explain what the heck is going on... but I never found it. And I guess that was a good thing, because a mystery left unexplained is more interesting than a mystery with 100% rationale.

 

When I finally got to the nobleman I knew I was where I was supposed to be. The painting behind the nobleman is an indication that Spoonman, you are a genius. The painting was the final nail in the weird weirdness. I steered clear of the bosses and his adjutant and found the trinket.

 

Next issue was to get out. I was lost, but somehow I had left landmarks: an open door here, looted table there, stashed body in the shadows here.... And I got out. And I ran back to the starting point exactly the way I came. I really paid attention because one missed turn would have got be lost again. I think I explored something like 10% of the mission. I know. It was probably smaller than that, but the geometry and style made it feel like it was procedurally generated and more and more corridors and guards would out from nothingness, endlessly.

 

My description here might sound I did not like the mission. I did not like it. I didn't like The Sword either back in T1.

 

Even if I didn't like the mission I loved it. Sounds probably weird, but that is the most accurate way how I can put it. This mission is a work of art that pushes the player way out of their comfort zone and messes up their mind. This mission generated a lot of feelings in me. And is what art is: it wants to convey a feeling. Here it was some kind of disoriented hopeless anxiety.

 

 

 

Interesting piece of work. I'm glad I played it, even if my mind feels a bit frail afterwards.

[The Dark One]

I'm with Sotha on this one. I loved this mission for what it was doing, but I was in mild screaming rage by the end of it all so I can't say I liked it.

 

 

I think it was the fact that the place was crammed with guards, it's hard to enjoy atmosphere when you hear "Is dat somethin' over der?" every five steps after you've just got done hiding the fifth guard on that floor, and the layout means that you have no idea where they are, or even if they're on the same floor. I admit that by the end it was getting tedious. Still, very creepy layout and atmosphere, I honestly enjoyed the confusion and seeing what would come next. I'm sure I'll like it better on a second playthough.

 

Sotha: You probably explored more than you thought; it's big, but a lot of that is the mission doubling back on itself and using generic and hard to tell apart connecting rooms. Still disorienting, but you probably saw most of it.

 

Also those friggen fish can go die somewhere, eugh.

 

Edited August 19, 2017 by The Dark One

[Bikerdude]

Spoonman/Level has given me permission to fix the bugs in the mission, so could i be cheeky and ask someone to collate all the bugs please..?

[Bikerdude]

Spoonman/Level has given me permission to fix the bugs in the mission, so could i be cheeky and ask someone to collate all the bugs please..?

Any takers..?

[GEPGUN]

Bugs:

 

 

 

This ledge in the upside-down area is not mantleable. As it stands now, you have to go all the way around if you want to see the other side which is incredibly infuriating. I recommend figuring out a way to let it be mantleable, or add some wood to the "ceiling" for rope arrows.

 

 

Another bug:

 

The wall next to the cavern ramp that's above a pool of water (not the one with the water pillar, but the ramp with a wall of water that leads down into the hole with the fish) can be clipped through if you get close enough to it, letting you see into nowhere:

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by GEPGUN

[cavador_8]

Thanks AluminumHaste for the tip on changing the ambient setting. That's pretty cool. You saved this mission for me. I was going to move on to another mission because it was just way too dark. However, changing the ambient to 050 is perfect. I don't like to change my gamma setting just for one mission. Thanks!

Edited March 25, 2018 by cavador_8

[V-Man339]

Routing this mission in all seriousness gave me a headache.

Great work on the nonsense, Spoonman, if you were seeking to make me constantly feel like I was on my back foot you succeeded.

[level]

-

Edited March 5, 2019 by level

[Shadow]

I will point out that Ravine is one of my all time favorite TDM mods. Spoonman did a fantastical job with the scope and variety of gameplay areas and supernatural elements. It had a bit of everything and felt like a couple different old style Thief missions all rolled into one. It's one of those TDM missions I can recall nearly everything about.

[Apiai]

Very good mission, I loved everything except low brightness (first time I had to put brightness at 2.0) and undeads with human voices (especially dumb voice, it feel weird). I loved the Constantine's manor touch and exploring all the mansion was very pleasant. Thanks for this nice mission !

[Geek Sheikh]

Really enjoyed this mission. Personally represents an FM as a work of art. Few thoughts as follows.

Spoiler

- What I liked most about this mission was what didn't happen. Firstly, there are no readables to potentially address the narrative limitations of TDM -- there are only really loot, guards and the level itself. This is a bold move given the scale of this gargantuan mission -- the player must try and rationalise what had happened purely by visual cues, like approaching an enormous structure that has no right to be there. I had several WTF moments, which I positively adore and forced me to press on further. I genuinely think that readables would have been a detriment to this mission so was thrilled to see them left out. Secondly, there are no 'new mission' prompts to guide the player what to do next. One often stumbled upon bizarre occurrences like a pillar of water or increasingly nonsensical architecture. My curiosity got the better of me and I wanted to explore these phenomena independently without having to satisfy some extrinsic goal like 'navigate this' or 'do not knockout that'. The simplicity of 'seek x and leave' with the caveat that you are going to encounter quite the journey before the destination is something that appeals to me.

- I can't help but feel that this mission was designed with the intent to evoke a sense of frustration in the player as time goes on. As has been mentioned previously, the scale of this mod is gargantuan so I was lost a multitude of times and had to rely on the compass to regain my bearings. Although I had complimented the lack of readables and 'new mission' prompts earlier, I couldn't help but beseech the mission's insistence that I figure out what to do next -- what am I looking for? Why am I doing this? How the heck am I going to get out? And then, ultimately, desperation kicked in and I was running around the level hopelessly looking for I-don't-know-what! Temptation to scan this thread for a merciful hint almost gave way before I had one more idea -- to revisit the throne room. I had previously been in here but had abandoned any semblance of hope of finding an answer -- and then I took a metaphorical leap of faith into the abyss. All I can say Spoonman/Level is that you are a genius and I felt the ultimate satisfaction of resilience as a player -- the payoff. That wasn't without protestations of finding a way out though!

It has to be said that using TDM assets to tell a story, or have the player fabricate their own story of plot events without in-game feedback may seem at first a lazy development tool but is in fact, an enviable feat. Serendipity is surely key to the storyteller's arsenal when 1) there are insufficient means to tell the story -- perhaps a video here or a readable there, and 2) one wishes to challenge a player's preconceptions about narrative -- for me, discovery > spoon-fed information.

Really hope this doesn't sound like TDM bashing! I absolutely love this mod. Spoonman/Level came along and opted to utilise innovative strategies and I simply wished to commend them for employing them!