Fan Mission: The Hare in the Snare, Part 1

[Frost_Salamander]

10 hours ago, Xolvix said:

Looks good, can't way to play it!

Quick question though - those soft shadows are some of the nicest I've seen in TDM screenshots. Which shadowing settings were they set on (stencil or maps, shadow quality) and is it playable or requires a beefy machine? I've been sticking with hard stencil shadows (i.e. Doom 3-mode) for ever so I'm wondering if it's time to take the leap.

For reference It was developed on an old Xeon workstation with a GTX 1060 (3GB), and ran totally fine.  I also tested on a similarly old CPU with a 1050, which was also fine.  The settings were medium-ish.  I don't tend to bother cranking up the graphics settings because I can barely tell the difference, but that's just me

[Tarhiel]

Congrats on the release!

[MrMunkeepants]

I need to find a way to deal with the Daltons, any ideas?

investigating 

Spoiler

Tinkleton's manor I'm pretty sure I know where the secret passage is,

but I haven't found a way to open it. I would like a clue, please.

as far as secrets I've found: 

Spoiler

the bird-man

the hanged man

 

[Kerry000]

Hello @MrMunkeepants (lol),

Here you go...
 

Spoiler

 The Dalton brothers - Read Milly's note in the pub kitchen. If you're still stuck, see the next spoiler...

Spoiler

Check the burn pit for a bottle of rat poison. Know where to use it? If not, check the next spoiler.....

Spoiler

The Daltons' food is in the staff kitchen in Highclere House, under the note from Hales.

 

Twistleton's secret passage - There are two ways to access it. From inside his study, or from the balcony outside. Another hint in the next spoiler...

Spoiler

The buttons are very small. Twistleton likes paintings and board games.

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Kerry000

[Sneaker]

Just finished a really enjoyable first playthrough.  Got a lot of loot to find and secrets.  Great FM.

Spoiler

In the son's study with the secret room behind the wine rack, I see a graphical glitch to the left of the rack just at the corner of wall (attached screenshot).  I thought it might be a switch, so I clicked around there and I unknowingly was able to actually click the switch through the wall.

 

[MrMunkeepants]

8 hours ago, Kerry000 said:

Hello @MrMunkeepants (lol),

Here you go...
 

  Hide contents

 The Dalton brothers - Read Milly's note in the pub kitchen. If you're still stuck, see the next spoiler...

  Hide contents

Check the burn pit for a bottle of rat poison. Know where to use it? If not, check the next spoiler.....

  Hide contents

The Daltons' food is in the staff kitchen in Highclere House, under the note from Hales.

 

Twistleton's secret passage - There are two ways to access it. From inside his study, or from the balcony outside. Another hint in the next spoiler...

  Hide contents

The buttons are very small. Twistleton likes paintings and board games.

 

thank you @Kerry000, that's what I get for playing too late at night and trying to pick it back up a couple days later!

once I realized you were using tiny custom buttons for secrets I was able to get a couple more (I swear I found the 5th, but can't remember it...); still not sure how to get from 

Spoiler

the balcony into the passage if the door isn't already open, but I guess the owner does and that's what matters 

I look forward to the next installment! do we find out why there's a coal shortage, or 

Spoiler

was the journal in the inn about tax rates the end of it?

 

[Frost_Salamander]

On 4/11/2021 at 12:13 AM, Bienie said:

Finished it, excellent stuff! Very high production values with the intro/outro videos, and a very engaging storyline with rich worldbuilding. Will definitely be looking forward to part 2!

  Reveal hidden contents

I played the mission on the highest difficulty and it took me about 3 hours to finish and I enjoyed every minute! Ended up with a stealth score of 20, and I had to knock out a couple of people and extinguish a few lights. Only managed to scrape together about 4000 loot, so thankfully the loot objective was optional. I got 4 out of the 5 secrets, and some of them were quite clever. I never did figure out how to get the Dalton bros. in trouble, though I suspect it had something to do with the bottle of rat poison I found by the pyre. I was also able to mantle up to Twistleton's balcony and was left scratching my head as to how anyone can use that. It was only later I realized that there was a secret passage from inside haha. Had a bit of trouble getting into the attic though, the hole seemed very small and I kept falling back out and landing on the awning causing the guards on the street to have a fit. Is that the only way in? I couldn't find another. I didn't run into very many other bugs or issues, aside from a few things clipping into geometry here and there and some misaligned textures. I did react to the floors not being quite as detailed as the walls and ceilings in many places. It seems a flat wood texture was used and scaled up which looked a bit wonky. I'm also not sure if you meant for Hales to be completely mute, I know that AI is by default but it should be possible to give her a different voice.

I really enjoyed the story element of working for the Watch captain and leaving the evidence on his desk. It provided good flow and it just clicked somehow. The overarching theme of corruption and dark secrets was spot on. The abandoned mines connecting the inn and tenements really reminded me of the town of Hackdirt in TESIV: Oblivion, I wonder if that was an inspiration? ^^

Anyway thanks for making the mission, I had a blast playing it!

Hi @Bienie and thanks for the kind words and feedback.  I'm collecting things for a possible future update - do you remember where you saw the 'scaled up' textures you mentioned?  I wouldn't have done that on purpose so it must have slipped by us all.

[Kerry000]

2 hours ago, MrMunkeepants said:

thank you @Kerry000, that's what I get for playing too late at night and trying to pick it back up a couple days later!

once I realized you were using tiny custom buttons for secrets I was able to get a couple more (I swear I found the 5th, but can't remember it...); still not sure how to get from 

  Hide contents

the balcony into the passage if the door isn't already open, but I guess the owner does and that's what matters 

I look forward to the next installment! do we find out why there's a coal shortage, or 

  Hide contents

was the journal in the inn about tax rates the end of it?

 

Hi @MrMunkeepants, 

Glad you enjoyed the mission.

Regarding the other entrance...
 

Spoiler

On the balcony, to the left of the board games, look for a switch on the underside of the wooden beam that forms part of the wall. Secret switches wouldn't be a secret if they were easy to find  

The coal shortage in Bridgeport is a major plot point of the planned Hare in the Snare series, so the short answer is yes, there is much more to come. 
 

[Bienie]

1 hour ago, Frost_Salamander said:

Hi @Bienie and thanks for the kind words and feedback.  I'm collecting things for a possible future update - do you remember where you saw the 'scaled up' textures you mentioned?  I wouldn't have done that on purpose so it must have slipped by us all.

It was actually more of a general thing in the Inn and bottom of the apartment house, which could have been a conscious choice. I'll show you a few pics of what I mean.

Spoiler

 

The stairway up to the rooms of the Inn. The stairway is made of  a single slab of wood, not boards, and the floor is the same but looks polished. There is also a texture misalignment in the middle of the stairs.

Compare that to this one in the apartment of the bird-man afficionado. The sides are made of boards and panels and this particular floor texture looks at least like it is kind of made of boards.

 

This is probably the worst offender of the floors. The texture looks like a single slice of wood, and it looks quite magnified. There are many rough-looking board textures that would fit better here imo.

 

Here in the Inn kitchen the roof textures are misaligned. If the textures continue into the next rooms and you don't want to change it you could hide the seam with a roof beam going through the center of the room.

 

Here's an example of items clipping into geometry, this is in the bedroom with a girl sleeping that you can mantle into at the end of the street (opposite the starting point).

 

[Frost_Salamander]

3 minutes ago, Bienie said:

It was actually more of a general thing in the Inn and bottom of the apartment house, which could have been a conscious choice. I'll show you a few pics of what I mean.

  Hide contents

 

The stairway up to the rooms of the Inn. The stairway is made of  a single slab of wood, not boards, and the floor is the same but looks polished. There is also a texture misalignment in the middle of the stairs.

Compare that to this one in the apartment of the bird-man afficionado. The sides are made of boards and panels and this particular floor texture looks at least like it is kind of made of boards.

 

This is probably the worst offender of the floors. The texture looks like a single slice of wood, and it looks quite magnified. There are many rough-looking board textures that would fit better here imo.

 

Here in the Inn kitchen the roof textures are misaligned. If the textures continue into the next rooms and you don't want to change it you could hide the seam with a roof beam going through the center of the room.

 

Here's an example of items clipping into geometry, this is in the bedroom with a girl sleeping that you can mantle into at the end of the street (opposite the starting point).

 

Ok thanks.

The boards on the stairs I think were just the skin choice.  As with the floorboards, yes those were conscious choices that I didn't really think looked too bad (esp. the inn, as it was supposed to be a bit of a dive).

But the misaligned ceiling texture - yikes! not sure how that got past us. That needs fixing, as well as the model clipping

[vozka]

Great mission. All the important things have been said already - I liked the creepy atmosphere created only with events that were quite realistic, and I also thought the characters and writing were very good. The videos were great as well. I managed to find 3 out of 5 secrets, and about 4150 loot, and it took me about 1:45 hours - couldn't imagine getting 5k. Until I found one of the secrets even 3k was not simple.

There were small things that I couldn't solve:

Spoiler

I couldn't find any information about what was being done with the people, so that optional quest stayed unsolved.

It also seemed like there is some purpose to the guy who was complaining about the water container making noise on the roof and barricaded his door from the inside. I did get to his room from the roof, but couldn't find anything.

Looking forward to anything else you create.

[Kerry000]

21 minutes ago, vozka said:

Great mission. All the important things have been said already - I liked the creepy atmosphere created only with events that were quite realistic, and I also thought the characters and writing were very good. The videos were great as well. I managed to find 3 out of 5 secrets, and about 4150 loot, and it took me about 1:45 hours - couldn't imagine getting 5k. Until I found one of the secrets even 3k was not simple.

There were small things that I couldn't solve:

  Hide contents

I couldn't find any information about what was being done with the people, so that optional quest stayed unsolved.

It also seemed like there is some purpose to the guy who was complaining about the water container making noise on the roof and barricaded his door from the inside. I did get to his room from the roof, but couldn't find anything.

Looking forward to anything else you create.

Hello @vozka,

Thank you for your feedback and the kind support. We appreciate the compliments

Regarding your other comment....

Spoiler

Both the optional objective and the room you mentioned are tied together. If you look a bit more carefully, you will find a partially hidden note in that room that will also complete the objective of finding out where the captives are being taken.

 

[NeonsStyle]

Congratulation son your release. Downloading now

[jonri]

@Frost_SalamanderJust started playing this one last night - great job on the intro!  Before I got too far into playing it, though, I did remember seeing your comment on collecting things for a future update.  I've been noticing a handful of minor geometry issues here and there and I'd be happy to collect them as I play though, if it would be of value to you.  Nothing I've seen is super-obvious or gameplay-breaking, but just smaller things I've become accustomed to looking for in my own mapping activities.

[Frost_Salamander]

2 minutes ago, jonri said:

@Frost_SalamanderJust started playing this one last night - great job on the intro!  Before I got too far into playing it, though, I did remember seeing your comment on collecting things for a future update.  I've been noticing a handful of minor geometry issues here and there and I'd be happy to collect them as I play though, if it would be of value to you.  Nothing I've seen is super-obvious or gameplay-breaking, but just smaller things I've become accustomed to looking for in my own mapping activities.

Certainly, that would be great if you don't mind! Hope you enjoy the rest of the mission   Oh, and I can't take credit for the cinematics - that was all @Kerry000!

[SeriousToni]

I need help with the footlocker I guess. I can't seem to open it with my lockpicks. Was this intended or is it a bug?

EDIT: Nah - don't mind. I guess I was wrong targeting the lock with my mouse or I was too far away. Eitherway it works now - no bug!

Edited April 16, 2021 by SeriousToni

[Kerry000]

3 minutes ago, SeriousToni said:

I need help with the footlocker I guess. I can't seem to open it with my lockpicks. Was this intended or is it a bug?

Hello @SeriousToni,

To which footlocker are you referring? Captain Williams? We have not encountered this issue, so a little more info would be helpful. Are you saying the lockpicking function does not activate, or that the lockpicking itself is too difficult? Do you hear the usual lockpicking sound and see the small latch moving?
 

[SeriousToni]

Thanks for the quick reply - yes the Captain's locker. As I said, I guess I was too far away and / or pointing my mouse to the lock was wrong. It worked when I bumped into the locker and tried again. I didn't remember that I have to be this close to a locker to open it with lockpicks. Could be that this came with 2.09 or the needed distance was setup this way in your FM. No problem, as I said, it was my fault.

[NeonsStyle]

Just finished this awesome mission. It was a complete delight to play. The story was very good, and drew you
in as it should. The architecture was perfect; I especially loved the manor detailing. A very well put together

mission that had me fully engaged for the entire time. Quite challenging which is fun, though I did run
into some problems with AI sensitivities, but they are addressing that as we speak. 

Spoiler

The Daltons, Twistledones guards, street guards, the guy at the window above the entry
street all were overly sensitive. The Daltons could detect me in pitch darkness, from 4m away behind their back lol

Absolutely recommend this mission and can't wait to play Part 2. Thank you so much, been a while since
we've had a new idea for story. 

Edited April 17, 2021 by NeonsStyle

[Frost_Salamander]

41 minutes ago, NeonsStyle said:

Just finished this awesome mission. It was a complete delight to play. The story was very good, and drew you
in as it should. The architecture was perfect; I especially loved the manor detailing. A very well put together

mission that had me fully engaged for the entire time. Quite challenging which is fun, though I did run
into some problems with AI sensitivities, but they are addressing that as we speak. 

  Hide contents

The Daltons, Twistledones guards, street guards, the guy at the window above the entry
street all were overly sensitive. The Daltons could detect me in pitch darkness, from 4m away behind their back lol

Absolutely recommend this mission and can't wait to play Part 2. Thank you so much, been a while since
we've had a new idea for story. 

Thanks @NeonsStyle!

Just a word about the AI for everyone - the only modification we did was bump up the light gem sensitivity by a value of 1 for hard and expert.  This applies to all AI in the map.  I will add this to the original post so it's clear what's happening

[Spyrano]

Thanks for this mission! The increased AI sensitivity on Expert took some getting used to, but helped with the immersion. The good architecture and story sells it further. All around great mission, and looking forward to Part 2!

[JackFarmer]

I've started the mission again last nite and played a little more ... but then stopped, I don't want to finish it until Part 2 is released!

Oh shit, you guys know how to create tension!

On a different note: In my opinion, this mission has the best sound design since Joebarnin's "Heart of St. Mattis."

 

 

[Tarhiel]

Absolute blast to play - neat, tightly-packed mission in a small area, but brimming with content - both loot and story readables.

And the story you two cooked up is fantastic, on a professional level - I can´t wait to find out what will happen in the second part!

The attention to detail, intro and outro had a high production values, as already stated before me.

Spoiler

I loved the fresh take on the intro story being told by another person and their own mission, and then cutting to you, only when thing got sour and you knew right from the beginning something is afoot.

And I definitely enjoyed working with the captain of the guards. 

 

I was a bit angry in certain parts of the story that I can´t kill certain characters, but I can see why now

Spoiler

They´re gonna be needed in the sequel.

 

I really hope one day, and I still will be alive, the Crucible of Omens will be finished and released

 

Edited April 25, 2021 by Tarhiel

[Kerry000]

@Spyrano and @JackFarmer,

Thank you both for the kind words and rest assured that we are hard at work on part 2. We're really glad to hear that you're looking forward to it

@Tarhiel,

Thank you for the glowing review, we truly appreciate it. Would you mind answering something for me so that we can gauge our development of the characters? Who did you want to kill in the mission? Did you want to kill them because of their involvement in the darker side of the plot, or do you usually enjoy killing characters in-game? It's important for us to create strong emotions in the player about certain characters whose stories are going to evolve along with the main plot. 

 

[Tarhiel]

2 hours ago, Kerry000 said:

@Spyrano and @JackFarmer,

Thank you both for the kind words and rest assured that we are hard at work on part 2. We're really glad to hear that you're looking forward to it

@Tarhiel,

Thank you for the glowing review, we truly appreciate it. Would you mind answering something for me so that we can gauge our development of the characters? Who did you want to kill in the mission? Did you want to kill them because of their involvement in the darker side of the plot, or do you usually enjoy killing characters in-game? It's important for us to create strong emotions in the player about certain characters whose stories are going to evolve along with the main plot. 

 

Ha, good question:

I do not enjoy killing characters in general and I generally take the stealth approach, usually blackjacking them, but:

Spoiler

But here, especially the Dalton brothers, and their chief Hales (the "mute woman", ex City Watch), I would kill off.

As I learned later on, it was a story option to kill the Dalton brothers with the rat poison, and I found this really neat, because it was stated in the readables somebody tried to blackjack them and it didn´t work, leaving clue to the player, they cannot be blackjacked (which, of course, I promptly tried). 

But after the build up from reading all the readables, slowly building the tension not knowing what exactly they did to your friend and whether he is still alive, and then learning right after encountering them that they cut his tongue out, I just saved the game (knowing it will be a failstate) and sneak past them and killed first with the arrow and the second shoot to death with several arrows.

Don´t get me wrong, I know they are just thugs, gorillas meant to do their master (Hales) bidding, she is the real villain in this story. And you could clearly see from the readables she is dangerous. But I was so angry at them and terrified Daltons might do this to others, I just went with it. It´s not very often this happens to me in the game, even in Dishonored, I enjoyed the non-lethal ways of getting rid of characters (I mean, cutting tongues out, and sending two former brothers and slave masters in to their own slave mines, letting them taste of their own medicine, or letting one duchess to be abducted by her creepy stalker and self-pronounced lover? That´s savage), because I found them more punishing than killing them, which actually would be more merciful, in some cases.

So killing those two silently was a prompt send-off, but there are several unanswered things about Hales:

- why did she hate beggars so much (it was stated in one of the readables)?

- what happened she fell of the grace (not being city watch member)?

I reckon that, even though it wasn´t explicitly stated, that now the good captain of the guards knows about her involvement, and he knows who she is, so this plays in our advantage and I would expect there would be a show down, where she will be called out by the captain, probably something she fears of (stated in her journal, that he would certainly recognize her).

I am really curious how this would play out.

Maybe that could be an optional mission goal added here - to drop her journal on the captain´s desk as well, making sure he KNOWS who´s he against.

Another persons which I would gladly blackjack, for purely technical reasons, were the two un-blackjackable guards guarding the Tottenhaum (you know which one I mean, forgot his precise name) mansion and always turning up the lights. I know this was meant to be a challenge (there was also this one guard with helmet on his head, just before entering the roof with the maur), but I ended up noclipping around them as their behavior was pesky.

At least one of them I would leave blackjackable for those of us, who does not play on ghost, OR leave one (just one) gas arrow in the whole level (these arrows are meant to be rare, so player would be extra cautious using them), but this is exactly the spot I would used them on.

By the way, whomsoever wrote your readables, should have won an Oscar.

Those are one fucking perfectly executed readables - short (only as long as they need to be), precise, in character, in the right places and there was always some new bit of trivia you learned form them, slowly piecing the story together.

And I think I found only 3/5 secrets,  have no idea where the others might be

Edited April 25, 2021 by Tarhiel