Fan Mission: Who Watches The Watcher? v1.0 by DeTeEff (2022/05/28)

[Nort]

10 minutes ago, datiswous said:

No it's not sound related I think. If I drop a body and then later a guard comes in line of sight (before that it was not alerted)  of the body (but in darkness), it runs to the body, but it doesn't see the player. If I hide the body somewhere out of line of sight it will not be spotted.

Okay. It could still be related to the issue I dealt with recently, so I'll still look into it, but that will have to wait until tomorrow, so try fixing things on your end as well.

[DeTeEff]

I just streamed when completing the mission on Calm settings. The VOD is her for anyone to see, with my disgusting broken english

 

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1316478737

Edited June 3, 2022 by DeTeEff

[NeonsStyle]

Re the Grate, I never found that. I did have all three documents, but the objective never ticked off.  Not sure

what the problem is there. Still, I really liked this mission. Would be awesome if you spent some time

making a fresh update and fleshing out the loot. I know what it's like you get near the end and you 

just want to be done with it sometimes lol. 

[joebarnin]

That was a nice mission! It's been a while since I played a 'tail' mission. Tailing the dude was hard but not impossible - I had to reload a few times. The city area was nicely designed - good geometry/geography. Kind of fun to zoom past areas (while tailing), then check them out in detail on the way back.

Someone else mentioned that guards can spot things in total darkness. I noticed this too - they spotted bodies, even dropped weapons; sometime from pretty far away. I don't know if this is a DM issue, or something about the mission in particular (I was on Easy).

Good fun! Congratulations, and thanks!

[Nort]

23 minutes ago, joebarnin said:

That was a nice mission! It's been a while since I played a 'tail' mission. Tailing the dude was hard but not impossible - I had to reload a few times. The city area was nicely designed - good geometry/geography. Kind of fun to zoom past areas (while tailing), then check them out in detail on the way back.

Someone else mentioned that guards can spot things in total darkness. I noticed this too - they spotted bodies, even dropped weapons; sometime from pretty far away. I don't know if this is a DM issue, or something about the mission in particular (I was on Easy).

Good fun! Congratulations, and thanks!

So it's not just bodies? Then, maybe it's some kind of issue with the light_ambient. Try recreating the light_world_ambient in the map, and make sure it's set up right, and that there are no duplicate ambient_world_lights (or whatever they're called).

Edited June 3, 2022 by Nort

[DeTeEff]

Maybe the foglight has something to do with it... Will check tomorrow if I get the time... 

[NeonsStyle]

This is one of my pet peeves of some of the missions of late, where AI are super sensitive to both

visuals and sound. Given how easy it is to adjust these in the level, I have to assume it's something

deeper that is causing this issue. It's really breaking the ability to sneak when you can't sneak past

a guard quitely on carpet or in dark shadow. I don't know if this is a 2.10 problem or a mission problem,

but since I've seen it in the last few missions, I'm thinking it may be a 2.10 problem.

[DeTeEff]

10 hours ago, NeonsStyle said:

This is one of my pet peeves of some of the missions of late, where AI are super sensitive to both

visuals and sound. Given how easy it is to adjust these in the level, I have to assume it's something

deeper that is causing this issue. It's really breaking the ability to sneak when you can't sneak past

a guard quitely on carpet or in dark shadow. I don't know if this is a 2.10 problem or a mission problem,

but since I've seen it in the last few missions, I'm thinking it may be a 2.10 problem.

I have done nothing to the acuity of the AI. They should be vanilla as far as I'm concerned. Personally I play on

Vision Forgiving 

Hearing Challenging

 

[NeonsStyle]

You should adjust the AI accuity to be more realistic. 100% they detect everything which is the default. I'd like to see these values made more realistic by default. For your mission though Teef, it's not a big deal, I thought it was pretty good n had a few issues, especially around the hanging. I could not get through there at all without detection, mostlty because of the brazier near the bottom of the stairs. 

Still, a really nicely designed level. I loved the geometry of the level, the way you stuck to the grunge look of low income feel was nice to see the same feel through the whole place. Was done right.

[DeTeEff]

1 minute ago, NeonsStyle said:

...mostlty because of the brazier near the bottom of the stairs. 

How nice then the player is given water arrows then

Or do you mean the electrical light outside the small stairs to the church main entrance? That small passage before the little alcove where the acolyte emerges? 

[Wellingtoncrab]

My impression playing through is that there never was “total darkness” really - the ambient world light is bright enough there is always some response from the light gem. Could be wrong there, as I haven’t looked in DR, but I don’t recall ever feeling like I could navigate to a spot where I was truly concealed. This in effect made line of sight to the ai always as important as the light gem value. While it was tricky I could at least pull it off on the easiest difficulty.

Since a lot of attention was given to the atmosphere and lighting, if there would be a change to consider in a future patch instead of doing something like lowering the ambient light level, I would personally set ai_see on the ambient world light to 0 if it isn’t already - while not “realistic” I think it is preferable to giving the already well advantaged AI even more of a chance to spot the player and it would allow the player to safely conceal themselves in the darkest portions of the missions. 

[datiswous]

Btw. During the following Clerwick sequence it is handy to have more quicksaves, I think. You can set the amount with:

com_numQuickSaves N

So for example:

com_numQuickSaves 6

To get max 6 separate quicksaves

[DeTeEff]

1 hour ago, datiswous said:

Btw. During the following Clerwick sequence it is handy to have more quicksaves, I think. You can set the amount with:

com_numQuickSaves N

So for example:

com_numQuickSaves 6

To get max 6 separate quicksaves

I don't get this? I have not added any save restrictions? 

[huntaffer]

Hi DeteEFF & taffers, please help, maybe I found a bug that needs a fix.

 

I got a segmentation fault when leaving Greynard's place, after the main objectives were completed.

Screenshot attached with the exact location, passed through some watery area and where are some stairs appear .

 

 

 

I managed to "noclip" through the beginning of the stairs and I can continue my leave from the tunnels.

"You forgot to lock your home door. This could be a bad thing...
signal caught: Segmentation fault
si_code 128"
 

(I am playing on Manjaro Linux KDE kernel 5.15 , TDM 2.10, NVIDIA GTX 1650, driver 510.73.05)

 

I mostly get segmentation faults in TDM missions under Linux  when shooting fire arrows to enemies.

 

I also experienced issues with lighting up dark places , like the boiler room or where Greynard's safe is.

Sometimes the lantern does not light up the objects, I need to retry twice or more to be successful.

Strange , never saw this before in TDM.

 

 

 

Edited June 4, 2022 by huntaffer
typo

[Nort]

3 minutes ago, huntaffer said:

I mostly get segmentation faults in TDM missions under Linux  when shooting fire arrows to enemies.

Another Linux user having segmentation faults.

Could you perhaps do a crashdump and report it to the bug tracker, please? I only have the instructions for how to do it on Windows, but how to do it on Linux shouldn't be too hard to find on the internet.

Edited June 4, 2022 by Nort

[DeTeEff]

5 hours ago, huntaffer said:

Hi DeteEFF & taffers, please help, maybe I found a bug that needs a fix.

 

I got a segmentation fault when leaving Greynard's place, after the main objectives were completed.

Screenshot attached with the exact location, passed through some watery area and where are some stairs appear .

 

 

 

I managed to "noclip" through the beginning of the stairs and I can continue my leave from the tunnels.

"You forgot to lock your home door. This could be a bad thing...
signal caught: Segmentation fault
si_code 128"
 

 

That bug seem to come from the script that repopulate the city after returning from the Roughboys hideout. It's called restore_city and checks for how manu guards and which guards/civilians have been downed

Spoiler

and it checks if you've locked your home door. 

It's one of the longest script in the mission. 

[datiswous]

6 hours ago, DeTeEff said:

I don't get this? I have not added any save restrictions? 

No it's just something I found that could help. Normally with every mission there's only 2 quicksave files. If the 3th is quicksaved it writes to the first. With that specific cvar I mentioned you can increase the max amount of quicksave files.

Example:

Spoiler

 

5 hours ago, Nort said:

Another Linux user having segmentation faults.

I don't like the regular assumption that when there's a bug with a Linux user it must be because that user is using Linux, while (almost at least) never Linux itself is the cause. Like Linux is some sort of experimental system, while actually it's fully supported.

Edited June 5, 2022 by datiswous

[Nort]

31 minutes ago, datiswous said:

I don't like the regular assumption that when there's a bug with a Linux user it must be because that user is using Linux, while (almost at least) never Linux itself is the cause. Like Linux is some sort of experimental system, while actually it's fully supported.

The assumption actually wasn't general. Two out of two reporters have the only common link that they're both using Linux. I imagine that segmentation can work differently on these operating systems, and bugs can of course occur even if there's full support for something. Once I buy a new computer, I'm going to try switching to Linux with this machine, and if I like the support it has, I wouldn't mind forsaking Windows altogether. That's what I think about Linux.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Nort

[thebigh]

I was a beta tester on this; I'm on Linux and I did not get any segfaults.

[huntaffer]

7 hours ago, DeTeEff said:

That bug seem to come from the script that repopulate the city after returning from the Roughboys hideout. It's called restore_city and checks for how manu guards and which guards/civilians have been downed

  Hide contents

and it checks if you've locked your home door. 

It's one of the longest script in the mission. 

Hi DeTeEff

Thanks for commenting, I suspected this to be a bug .  It's funny and weird. 

You mean at mission start I need to lock my home door ?

Do you think a fix is possible ? 

Very good mission. When I started to play it, I thought this is below average quality and gameplay, but man , this changed very quickly when I reached the pub scene and started to follow Clerwick.

The Roughboys' hideout and the perimeter is very cool. I do not like the horror part of the story , but apart from that 5 out of 5 stars.

Awesome work. 

[huntaffer]

6 hours ago, Nort said:

The assumption actually wasn't general. Two out of two reporters have the only common link that they're both using Linux. I imagine that segmentation can work differently on these operating systems, and bugs can of course occur even if there's full support for something. Once I buy a new computer, I'm going to try switching to Linux with this machine, and if I like the support it has, I wouldn't mind forsaking Windows altogether. That's what I think about Linux.

I personally prefer linux on my home computers and have been playing  TDM on linux since 2017. 

I started with TDM 2.05 32 bit, I feel it became more and more stable, but segmentation faults can occur any time in any mission in my experience. I do not have much experience playing TDM on Windows.

I hope it's only a programming bug, not related to linux system  files or Nvidia drivers.

I can "anytime" crash a TDM mission by shooting fire arrows at enemies.

[Nort]

46 minutes ago, huntaffer said:

I personally prefer linux on my home computers and have been playing  TDM on linux since 2017. 

I started with TDM 2.05 32 bit, I feel it became more and more stable, but segmentation faults can occur any time in any mission in my experience. I do not have much experience playing TDM on Windows.

I hope it's only a programming bug, not related to linux system  files or Nvidia drivers.

I can "anytime" crash a TDM mission by shooting fire arrows at enemies.

I'm on Windows 7, and I've never even heard of there being segmentation faults on the Dark Mod before this. There has been crashes, of course, but nothing that shouted "segmentation fault" at me. Does Windows even do that?

[huntaffer]

On 5/30/2022 at 8:45 PM, Tarhiel said:

  Reveal hidden contents

You need three parts of the evidence;

-The diary in the safe
-Any of the letters in the desk
-The torturers log, in the interrogation room.

@DeTeEffThank you for pointing out those thongs, I did not know when or on what to use them.
the crowbar was self-explanatory.

Regarding the evidence - I had all of those and I read all of those till the last page, yet the mission objective did not check-off as complete.

Spoiler

Please give me a hint how to use the tongs in the interrogation room. I have no clue.

 

[DeTeEff]

19 minutes ago, huntaffer said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Please give me a hint how to use the tongs in the interrogation room. I have no clue.

 

Spoiler

To rip out the golden teeth from the head in the corner. Speaking of horror/creepy elements... 

 

[irisx]

This looks like a very promising mission, unfortunately I also get a segfault (yes, on linux) just as the "That's got to be Clerwick" line finishes and before the relevant objective is updated:

WARNING:civilian_20 (-7040.11 1891.67 -339.75) can't sit: too far from sitting location civilian_20_path_1 (-8060 12 -348)

Resizing dynamic VertexCache: index 4096 kb -> 8192 kb, vertex 4096 kb -> 16384 kb
Resizing dynamic VertexCache: index 8192 kb -> 16384 kb, vertex 8192 kb -> 16384 kb

CLERWICK LOCATED! EVACUATING SHOEMAKER PLAZA AND INITIATING THE COURIER!
WARNING:GetPointOutsideObstacles: civilian_15 - no valid point found
WARNING:GetPointOutsideObstacles: civilian_15 - no valid point found
NEW OBJECTIVE
signal caught: Segmentation fault
si_code 128
Trying to exit gracefully..
--------- Game Map Shutdown ----------
ModelGenerator memory: 86 LOD entries with 144 users using 43346 bytes, memory saved: 55552 bytes.
WARNING:idClipModel::FreeTraceModel: tried to free uncached trace model (index=0)
--------- Game Map Shutdown done -----
Shutting down sound hardware
idRenderSystem::Shutdown()
...shutting down QGL
I18NLocal: Shutdown.
------------ Game Shutdown -----------
ModelGenerator memory: No LOD entries.
Shutdown event system
--------------------------------------
Sys_Error: ERROR: pthread_join  failed

shutdown terminal support
About to exit with code 1

In another, maybe unrelated quirk: if I reload 5-6 times, even in different locations, FPS starts to drop dramatically until the map is no longer playable. Exiting/restarting TDM and realoading fixes this. I've only seen such behaviour in the past when I used noclip at some point of the map, which however I have not done here. Any clues?

EDIT: I restarted the map and I was able to get past that point, so it was probably a transient glitch. Already *very* impressed by the mission BTW...

Edited June 5, 2022 by irisx