Main menu Mission name sorting

[snatcher]

Does this look like sorted?

 

Does a true A-Z sorting look that bad?

 

Technical: to get these examples I just commented out most of the stuff in MoveArticlesToBack() in file \framework\I18N.cpp

[wesp5]

I completely agree and I think I asked multiple times for this! As far as I know the mission web site does sort it thus too.

[jaxa]

It could change titles to "Elixir, The" or gray out the "The".

[snatcher]

33 minutes ago, jaxa said:

It could change titles to "Elixir, The" [...]

That's how it was in the past, apparently.

What do you (all) think?

 

Technical: I restored the commented out section in UpdateGUI() in file \game\ModMenu.cpp

Edited October 2, 2023 by snatcher
Added technical details

[thebigh]

It's useful to not sort them by "A" or "The" because there's always going to be people who can't quite remember if the mission is called "The Threepenny Revue" or just "Threepenny Revue". I definitely prefer the third version.

[nbohr1more]

Oh no, we are gonna get stuck in a time loop!

Yes, I believe that true alphabetical sorting was the original design.

Some players complained that there were too many missions starting with "The" or "A" so finding the desired mission was tedious.

The titles were changed to "Mission, The" or "Mission, A" and that worked but was clunky.

Finally the design compromise was to sort them without the A or The prefix but display them naturally.

I agree that true alpha sorting looks more tidy and am not sure why anyone entertained the "complaint" in the first place.

[wesp5]

9 hours ago, thebigh said:

It's useful to not sort them by "A" or "The" because there's always going to be people who can't quite remember if the mission is called "The Threepenny Revue" or just "Threepenny Revue". I definitely prefer the third version.

In that case it would be very easy to check all "A" and "The" missions for the one you are looking for.

[Taffingtaffer]

It always baffled me why the current sorting seemed like a good idea and has remained like this for so long. I agree on putting "The" and "A" to the end of the names, that's how Angel Loader does it.

If I could only ask for something it would be an option to sort by Newest/Oldest missions. I prefer to start from the oldies.

[thebigh]

Oh hey, TaffingTaffer. You got your account working. Nice!

As an alternative you could sort by release date on the official website.

Not as elegant, but it should get the job done.

[Taffingtaffer]

34 minutes ago, thebigh said:

Oh hey, TaffingTaffer. You got your account working. Nice!

As an alternative you could sort by release date on the official website.

Not as elegant, but it should get the job done.

Yeah, I already do that. It isn't clear if some series actually released out of order plot-wise or the re-releases pushed the dates forward, though. ie. Thief's Den 1 especifically states that it was re-released, but the oldest Thomas Porter is TP 2.

[wesp5]

40 minutes ago, thebigh said:

As an alternative you could sort by release date on the official website.

You can also search for a mission there. Only they are sorted with "A" and "The" in front, so the game should do it too!

Edited October 3, 2023 by wesp5

[nbohr1more]

36 minutes ago, Taffingtaffer said:

Yeah, I already do that. It isn't clear if some series actually released out of order plot-wise or the re-releases pushed the dates forward, though. ie. Thief's Den 1 especifically states that it was re-released, but the oldest Thomas Porter is TP 2.

Try the wiki:

https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Fan_Missions_for_The_Dark_Mod

Multiple sorting options.

[datiswous]

19 hours ago, snatcher said:

Does a true A-Z sorting look that bad?

This indeed looks like the best sorting and it's the kind of sorting that I use everywhere. The and A is part of the title, ignoring them, or putting them at the end makes no sense.

Btw. on the mission downloader page the sorting is based on last mission released, which you can change, but the change is not saved. It's not consistant with the ordering in the mission list.

Edited October 3, 2023 by datiswous

[AluminumHaste]

On 10/2/2023 at 7:29 PM, nbohr1more said:

Oh no, we are gonna get stuck in a time loop!

Yes, I believe that true alphabetical sorting was the original design.

Some players complained that there were too many missions starting with "The" or "A" so finding the desired mission was tedious.

The titles were changed to "Mission, The" or "Mission, A" and that worked but was clunky.

Finally the design compromise was to sort them without the A or The prefix but display them naturally.

I agree that true alpha sorting looks more tidy and am not sure why anyone entertained the "complaint" in the first place.

I swear it's my fault, I remember bringing it up years ago.

[AluminumHaste]

Also, there are good reasons that things aren't sorted by "A", "An" and "The".

 

Quote

 

This is also done for the the words "A" and "An".

The reason we ignore these words isn't because the section would be so big, but because so many titles start with those words you're almost always going to be looking for the second word anyway.

 

 

 

Quote

You're basically just creating a second alphabetical list within an alphabetical list

 

Things like that. Right now it's not a huge deal because we don't have that many missions. So maybe it's a non issue as we'll never have that many

[datiswous]

3 hours ago, AluminumHaste said:

Things like that. Right now it's not a huge deal because we don't have that many missions. So maybe it's a non issue as we'll never have that many

Yeah we can always change it when it becomes a real issue, instead of this forward planning. Or have it included as an option like in the mission downloader (assuming it works similar).

Edited October 4, 2023 by datiswous

[Skaruts]

I actually prefer missions sorted by "A" and "The", tbh.

Would it be possible to add a custom search filter, where the user can type something in a text box, and the list is filtered by that? That would help finding missions quicker, either way.

Also, I wish I could sort the already-downloaded missions list as well.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Skaruts

[taffernicus]

2 hours ago, Skaruts said:

I actually prefer missions sorted by "A" and "The", tbh.

Would it be possible to add a custom search filter, where the user can type something in a text box, and the list is filtered by that? That would help finding missions quicker, either way.

Also, I wish I could sort the already-downloaded missions list as well.

I was just thinking about the search box yesterday. It would be handy if the search results, particularly with similar titles , could be highlighted

[wesp5]

I found a trick to sort the missions with "A" and "The" included and will probably update my patch to do so...

[datiswous]

8 hours ago, Skaruts said:

Would it be possible to add a custom search filter, where the user can type something in a text box, and the list is filtered by that? That would help finding missions quicker, either way.

I don't think gui's have that option. Although, maybe I'm wrong, because there is an input field possible via Editdef.

[datiswous]

It would at least be nice to have a cvar to turn on normal ordering.

[snatcher]

Is anyone in here in favor of the current sorting (very first screenshot in this topic) over other options? Please speak up.

1. By going current, missions are kind of sorted and mission names are respected.
2. By going true alphabetical, missions are sorted and mission names are respected.
3. By going article last, missions are kind of sorted and mission names are not respected.

Please comment if you disagree or have something to add to my three points above.

If I were to decide I would personally find defending the second option the easiest: how would you like Windows to sort your files and folders?

[wesp5]

For anybody who wants to test this in game, just install my latest patch to have a look!

[datiswous]

14 hours ago, snatcher said:

Is anyone in here in favor of the current sorting (very first screenshot in this topic) over other options? Please speak up.

1. By going current, missions are kind of sorted and mission names are respected.
2. By going true alphabetical, missions are sorted and mission names are respected.
3. By going article last, missions are kind of sorted and mission names are not respected.

Please comment if you disagree or have something to add to my three points above.

Why not create a poll?

[Zerg Rush]

I think that a good way is to sort it by download order, the most recent missions are not always downloaded first, that the new added missions are on the top of the list. I sometimes, after downloading/updating a Mission, it is somewhat annoying to scroll through the Missions list to find it. Adding these as the first in the list is maybe a better solution than by release date. This also avoids having to use unnecessary sorting algorithms.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Zerg Rush