Fan Mission: The Spider and the Finch, by grodenglaive

[Marbrien]

OK thanks.  I found the other secret just after posting (of course).

[plotzzz]

Wow, I can't believe this is a "first" mission. Thank you so much for the perfect balance between difficulty, aesthetics and everything else. This one joins my list of favorites! I'm sorry I had to kill someone instead of bringing him to justice. Twice, in fact: once by throwing the guy off a balcony, a second time by shooting him because it seems that wasn't enough

Incidentally, why not implement a feature in the darkmod that lets you surrender instead of being systematically killed? (yes, I don't like death)

Edited November 21, 2023 by plotzzz

[grodenglaive]

Thanks, I'm glad you liked it. Well the beta testers kept me busy making sure it didn't suck.

A surrender option would be a cool thing to implement. I'm not sure if I've seen it done before in TDM, but I think it should be possible to build that into a mission. 

[Cambridge Spy]

Here's my playthrough video of The Spider and the Finch:

 

https://youtu.be/HrrkrZwn7zc

[datiswous]

18 hours ago, plotzzz said:

Incidentally, why not implement a feature in the darkmod that lets you surrender instead of being systematically killed? (yes, I don't like death)

This would be cool. He pleads to you that he will be doing only good from now on and you believe him.. and then a follow up mission where you found that he lied and you have to kill him for good.. Or something..

Or like a whole campaign of 15 missions like this. In the end of every mission you get a cutscene where he (again) convinces the player to give him another chance. In the end of mission 15 he dies a natural dead (age).

 

Edit: Oh I see, I think you mean that the player could surender and like in thief 3 you go to jail.

Edited November 22, 2023 by datiswous

[chakkman]

Why not just implement lethal and non-lethal mission objectives, like in Dishonored? That should already be possible in TDM.

I agree that killing should always be the last option. It always was in the original Thiefs. "Killing is the mark of the amateur".

Although I'd also refrain from these inhumane non-lethal options in Dishonored... turning the genius into a retard, or cutting someones tongue out, and letting him work in a mine for the rest of his life seems more inhumane than just killing him. At least I felt pretty evil doing that.

Edited November 22, 2023 by chakkman

[Cambridge Spy]

3 minutes ago, chakkman said:

Why not just implement lethal and non-lethal mission objectives, like in Dishonored? That should already be possible in TDM.

I agree that killing should always be the last option. It always was in the original Thiefs. "Killing is the mark of the amateur".

Although I'd also refrain from these inhumane non-lethal options in Dishonored... turning the genius into a retard, or cutting someones tongue out, and letting him work in a mine for the rest of his life seems more inhumane than just killing him.

It already happened in Penny Dreadful Mission 2.

[chakkman]

Shame on me, I played that one not long ago, and don't remember.  

[grodenglaive]

On 11/22/2023 at 6:09 AM, datiswous said:

This would be cool. He pleads to you that he will be doing only good from now on and you believe him.. and then a follow up mission where you found that he lied and you have to kill him for good.. Or something..

Or like a whole campaign of 15 missions like this. In the end of every mission you get a cutscene where he (again) convinces the player to give him another chance. In the end of mission 15 he dies a natural dead (age).

 

Edit: Oh I see, I think you mean that the player could surender and like in thief 3 you go to jail.

Ah, I read that wrong too.

[Kopfrkingl]

23 hours ago, chakkman said:

Why not just implement lethal and non-lethal mission objectives, like in Dishonored? That should already be possible in TDM.

I agree that killing should always be the last option. It always was in the original Thiefs. "Killing is the mark of the amateur".

Although I'd also refrain from these inhumane non-lethal options in Dishonored... turning the genius into a retard, or cutting someones tongue out, and letting him work in a mine for the rest of his life seems more inhumane than just killing him. At least I felt pretty evil doing that.

Heh, when playing this mission, I thought it would be cool to feed Finch to the spider.

[grodenglaive]

Did you try it?

[grodenglaive]

Minor update to fix a light leak.

[grodenglaive]

On 11/19/2023 at 12:07 PM, Kae said:

found a 3-digit code

  Reveal hidden contents

behind a painting, but I don't see any information pointing to the code

 

sorry, I missed your post! I hope you haven't given up.

Spoiler

if you look around in the office there will be  a clue where you can find the code.

hint2

Spoiler

you will need to get into the attic

@Kae

Edited November 24, 2023 by grodenglaive

[Bergante]

Thanks for this beautiful new Mission
it seems you had put a lot of effort into the design ,
especially the wilderness (the way you`ve forbidden to climb Trees and Rocks / exept 1)
and - ooohkay - you´ve forbidden to go swimming ! so to visit the little island was only by NoClip
and thankfully Finch´s Guard moves time to time .
It`s cause I`m trying to "Supreme Ghost" so i didn`t picked up any Key , but was unable to leave his Room by the Door 
and here´s my Question (-s) ? : is killing the Spider a break of Rules (BlackJacking my girl is Mission-Fail)
and second : when the 2Guys in the Cellar get angry when they discover they´ve been bestolen ?!?
It´s a scripted behaviour (when you(me) bring back the Light .
They distroyed the Table Candle themself !
nowadays it´s more logical they react to it (in older Missions it had been possible to steal without reactions)
   One little mark  i must say : A Secret should be an Addition to the mission - not a Part of it !!!
but that´s realy just a little personal opinion
ThX´s to YOU ---- I enjoy  to wait for your next one !!!!   

[lowenz]

23 minutes ago, Bergante said:

   One little mark  i must say : A Secret should be an Addition to the mission - not a Part of it !!!
but that´s realy just a little personal opinion

Exactly.

Why not avoid the secret location

Spoiler

the attic

and just find the antivenom, apply it to Astrid

Spoiler

and get the code from her (when we know she did see it from Marion note)

?

Edited November 24, 2023 by lowenz

[Bergante]

LOL 
Lowenz 
That´s exactly the way I first tried to get the Code !
first : searched her room and then : woke her up to give it to me !
so maybe this way would be to easy/logical (and you have to go in-out-in , what surly some won't like)
but ? maybe a coded Letter to her Brother in the chest/near her bed ?

[lowenz]

It's the natural way, I suppose.....and maybe why

Spoiler

the attic

was in the first place intended as a secret and not part of the mission. Just as you've said.

Edited November 24, 2023 by lowenz

[grodenglaive]

2 hours ago, Bergante said:

Spoiler

and here´s my Question (-s) ? : is killing the Spider a break of Rules (BlackJacking my girl is Mission-Fail)
and second : when the 2Guys in the Cellar get angry when they discover they´ve been bestolen ?!?
It´s a scripted behaviour (when you(me) bring back the Light .
They distroyed the Table Candle themself !

 

Wow, that is supreme ghost! I am not so stealthy.

Spoiler

Killing the spider is pretty much necessary, otherwise it's unlikely that Astrid would make it to the boat alive.
Yes, the guys in the cellar are scripted to notice the missing loot. I was not sure if I should leave it like that, but it's more realistic. 

 

Edited November 24, 2023 by grodenglaive

[grodenglaive]

2 hours ago, lowenz said:

  Hide contents

and get the code from her (when we know she did see it from Marion note)

?

That would have been a great way to handle it, I wish I thought of that.

Spoiler

but I had coded that part of the mission before I even thought of adding Astrid to the story. 

 

[Zerg Rush]

It wasn't that hard to find anyway. The code isn't so hard to find anyway and so no need to enter a second time in the Mansion, after asking the Girl. Despite these small misconceptions, eg regarding the second "secret" it is an excellent mission, although it also leaves room to expand the plot in some update in the future.

Edited November 25, 2023 by Zerg Rush

[STiFU]

Congratuliations on the release and what incredible quality for a first-timer. The story was really neat and felt very authentic. Gameplay-wise, I also had a lot of fun, although it got really messy at times. You see, I like to play with the rule to only reload when I am dead, so I am forced to play through my mistakes, which can be really fun. A mistake in this mission often meant, that almost all the guards got alerted because a huge portion of the mansion is connected without any doors. And with so many guards, trouble often snowballed, which made this mission pretty difficult. So many guards in one spot also very frequently lead to AI misbehavior like continuously running into a wall etc. For your future missions (hoping there weill be more), I would suggest to split up areas more so that not so many guards come flocking on you on a single mistake.

[Bergante]

23 hours ago, Bergante said:

is killing the Spider a break of Rules (BlackJacking my girl is Mission-Fail)

for a SupremeGhost !

Spoiler

when you rescue the girl at the mission end it´s too late --- the spider will rest at the Campfire !
But - when you do it early - he is still moving - so it´s just a question of timing .
 

? so what´s the trigger for the Spider ? (to not moving anymore)
by time --- by solved Goal --- or had it just been a bug on my Playthrough?

Edited November 25, 2023 by Bergante

[Zerg Rush]

I killed the spider near the campfire, before giving the antidote to the girl, so there was no problem to finish the mission.

[grodenglaive]

2 hours ago, STiFU said:

Congratuliations on the release and what incredible quality for a first-timer. The story was really neat and felt very authentic. Gameplay-wise, I also had a lot of fun, although it got really messy at times. You see, I like to play with the rule to only reload when I am dead, so I am forced to play through my mistakes, which can be really fun. A mistake in this mission often meant, that almost all the guards got alerted because a huge portion of the mansion is connected without any doors. And with so many guards, trouble often snowballed, which made this mission pretty difficult. So many guards in one spot also very frequently lead to AI misbehavior like continuously running into a wall etc. For your future missions (hoping there weill be more), I would suggest to split up areas more so that not so many guards come flocking on you on a single mistake.

Thanks STiFU. Yes it's easy to aggro all the guards. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll definitely keep that in mind for the next one. 

[grodenglaive]

1 hour ago, Bergante said:

for a SupremeGhost !

  Reveal hidden contents

when you rescue the girl at the mission end it´s too late --- the spider will rest at the Campfire !
But - when you do it early - he is still moving - so it´s just a question of timing .
 

? so what´s the trigger for the Spider ? (to not moving anymore)
by time --- by solved Goal --- or had it just been a bug on my Playthrough?

Possibly the spider got stuck on something if it stopped moving, I'll take a look at that.