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Now I have more mobility, something I didn't anticipate was replacing my PC with a laptop. But it seems like this is just a plan. Laptops with an RTX 5060 GPU (high TGP) are really out of my price range ($200-250 price increase). Those with an RTX 5050 have also gone up by $130-$160. I'm looking for a dual heatpipe configuration (definitely dual fans) That feeling when you ask a seller on an e-commerce platform and they tell you they've raised the price by $150-$200 from the original price via chat. All the product price tags feel misleading. The prices are intentionally not updated. I do hate bait and switch pricing By the way, I haven't heard of the brands Sager or Clevo in a long time. I wonder where they are now.

I have an issue with the minimal system requirements of 2.14 beta 6 which might indeed be valid for older versions too. According to the wiki we need a GPU with 1280 MB of VRAM. As reference a Geforce GT 8800 is mentioned which has only 512 MB VRAM and I doubt there is a card with 1280 MB and not 1024 MB at all. So I have a Geforce 610 with 1024 MB VRAM at work and smaller missions run fine with graphics quality full. Bigger missions, like e.g. the Training Mission, freeze the whole PC with full graphics though, but run fine on medium graphics. Large missions like Displacement freeze the whole PC even on low graphics. All tests done windowed with 800x600 resolution. So either there is a critical issue that happens if TDM runs out of VRAM which should be fixed, or the minimal system requirements need to be raised...

I had my pc freeze with swap on an m2 ssd as well

But the problem is that it does not. Even with everything off and on low, it depends on the missions and the result is a complete freeze of the computer which is unacceptable! Can't TDM give a VRAM warning or something instead?

Greetings everyone! I recently got into TDM and am already having a lot of fun playing through and ghosting missions. However, coming from Thief, I am mostly relying on the rules and my experience with that game, while there are clearly differences in how TDM works. Right now, there is talk in the ghosting discussion thread on TTLG to amend the ruleset and include clarifications pertaining to TDM. So I wanted to drop by and ask: is there an active TDM ghosting community already and have any rules for this playstyle been developed? I would also like to ask someone to take a look at the draft of this addendum to see whether everything looks correct: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148487&page=16&p=2473352&viewfull=1#post2473352 Thanks!

This mod is actually one that I made, and it calls `saveGame` every five-10 minutes with an auto generated name. https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22647-quick-and-dirty-autosave-mod/#comment-499784 The save file I uploaded that we are looking at is not an autosave, and that mod has been compatible and functioning correctly for several versions now. It is, indeed, a tiny script-only mod. The checksum changed because I made the adjustment to the loading screen gui recommended in frost salamander's post earlier in this topic ( https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/23119-loading-saves-just-hangs-after-closereopen-the-game/#findComment-506750 ). This mission is, flare box warning notwithstanding, bitwise identical to the latest version in the repo available to the mission downloader. Also, this issue was present before I followed that advice from frost salamander. I suppose I can go undo that change/redownload the .pk4 since it didn't fix the issue anyways. I will revert to a clean install of both the latest TDM beta and this particular mission, just to clear some red herrings out of our debugging work. Interesting! I'll go test this.

I can try disabling Parallax Mapping tomorrow, I already tried it on low texture quality. It would also be better if TDM would just crash or give an error message if the VRAM is not enough instead of freezing the whole PC so a reboot is necessary. Maybe the same could be done if the game finds a changed script. Give an error instead of freeze the loading.

I want to say it started in beta 5, maybe after the updates to reloadscript. It doesnt appear to be related to any specific type of scripitng error. To reproduce: - Open saint lucia, - Make an obvious error in any script - reloadScripts -> crash and / or freeze Sometime it will actually post the error in the console and then freezes. OR it just completely freezes before even printing (requires a control alt delete -> end task in either case) . Im on windows 11 if that makes a difference.

This pinned thread's purpose is to collect links to all the discussion threads for new features to be added in 2.14: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/23080-214-new-and-updated-assets/ https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/23072-214-mirrors-and-remotes-resolution-and-optimizations/ https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/23070-214-tdm-version-macros-and-x-ray-breaking-change/ https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/23071-214-in-game-screenshot-as-menu-background/ https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/23073-214-interactible-projected-decals/ https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/23074-214-new-smoke-generation-system/ https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/23088-214-beta-ko-non-elite-ai-after-flash/ https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/23087-214-beta-frob-changes-additions/ https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22736-font-localization/page/2/#findComment-503417 Maybe: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/23104-script-debugger/ As well as older Feature Collection Threads: [2.13] Feature Discussion Threads [2.12] Feature discussion threads [2.11] Feature discussion threads [2.10] Feature discussion threads

@stgatilovApolgies if this was mentioned but I am having a problem if an error is posted to the console. I get a black screen and a freeze if the level tried to load with an error in its map.script file (probably in any script file actually.) The error shows up in the log for example : ERROR:Function 'spiderweb_enter' has the wrong number of parameters for function call from 'test_web1' -------------------------------------- WARNING:idSession: triggering mainmenu watchdog But it doesnt do the previous behavior of kicking you out of the map and posting the error. It just freezes.

Besides the usual (legitimate) excuses about this being an open source project run by volunteers who have other commitments, etc., I think one of the main things missing is a proper triage process and prioritized backlog for bug reports and feature requests. At least that's how a 'real' software project would work. But someone trusted by the dev team would need to volunteer for that role (if it's even agreed it's needed). Loads of issues get reported, but in different places (the bug tracker, or various forum posts, Discord, etc.). The forum is a nightmare to search, so things get lost as soon as they are posted. Some devs don't really read all of the forums unless they are tagged (again, I don't blame them not everyone has time to read every single post or hang around Discord 24/7). I make sure to log bug reports and feature requests in the bug tracker, so at least I can easily find them later. I think there is a better chance of someone seeing it there as well. Then you could maybe raise awareness of it by posting in the forums with a link to it. Unfortunately with respect to features and suggestions, nobody is really in a position to make any promises at any given time whether something can or will be implemented. It seems to need to reach some critical mass of internal discussion first, which sometimes only happens after some pestering occurs. If you look at the stuff that @Daft Mugi and @STiFU have implemented recently, they do a great job of making a case for their feature requests, complete with screen shots, videos, evidence from users from discord and forums, rationale with pros and cons. This helps a lot when trying to convince a group of people that your idea is worth considering. EDIT: I meant to say the non-responses can definitely give the impression of apathy and that's frustrating, but I think that would be a harsh assumption. IMO this forum or Discord are not suited to feature discussion. The rest of the world has moved onto things like Github issues which are way easier to have targeted, scoped discussions about particular bugs or features. And also to find them later.

From personal experience (and I have a lot of experience on that topic), casting calls on the TDM forums do not have much effect. You could try VAC (if you are on Discord). I could also provide you the contact details of a very reliable guy who has been doing tons of voice work for TDM/Thief missions, if you want to.

Easy outdoors recipe. If you are lazy and want to make an outdoor area, you could use this strategy: It doesn't look even bad from high up: The setup is really simple: You have 1) the play area (selected and red.) 2) area with skybox texture (blue) 3) skybox (you need to add some kind of ground terrain there) 4) hide the seam between play area and the skybox texture area with a pile of big bushes. These bushes I made with simple bunch of patches with the wood model leave textures. I made it into an ase model and cloned the 32 decal bunch around to generate thich bushes. I also placed some trees floating into the skybox texture area. 5) You must make the bushes closed area so that the player cannot move into them. Otherwise the end-of-world is nasty looking and visible: Enjoy! Previously in the Easy Recipe series: Easy Vault recipe: http://forums.thedar...y-vault-recipe/ Easy caverns recipe: http://forums.thedar...caverns-recipe/

https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/23105-sad-news-we-lost-another-one-of-our-own-mircea-kitsune/

Speaking of savegame compatibility. I hate it too Every time I decide to play some mission during beta, something happens and I have to switch to the most up-to-date version, and then can't even remember which revision I was playing on! I don't think we can realistically support savegame compatibility across versions. But we can probably do some lifetime improvements, maybe add various filters: only show compatible saves, or sort them by engine revision, showing engine revision at least, etc. Speaking of bugtracker. Perhaps somewhere on the forums there are messages from 10-15 years ago like "you can help us by posting a bug on bugtracker, we promise we'll look at it". If there are, I think we should delete them as those are false promises. It's not like we have a project manager who tracks all newly created issues 24/7 and decides what to do with them. It is safe to say that almost nobody looks at what's added to bugtracker. If some TDM issue is really annoying to you, the most likely way to get it fixed is to talk to some developers or team members, or at least mappers. It does not mean bugtracker is useless though: it is more like a knowledge database of everything that bothers people, with more focused comments, not a well-tuned pipeline to get it fixed.

Should there be some cutscene at the end? I found all the relics and Curio´s items, then went to sit in the chair in the red room, and that was it (still played and finished v1 on 2.13, because I was pretty far along). Anyways, time to say huge thank you to both of the creators and all the lovely people who were helping to test this mission - this has to be the most unique mission I have played so far on Dark mod - the (New) weird combination of aesthetically pleasing leveldesign and unclear story, sooo many options of entering and finding out unique "quests" and safe opening combinations is unheard/seen/played of. People in forums say its combination of Dishonored and Bioshock, I would add a hint of Dark Souls in the story area, mixed with Twin Peaks, and you start to get an idea. Although I am playing fanmissions from the very beginning of the mod´s existence, I felt completely lost here and I enjoyed that. I also didn´t know how to solve many of the combinations until I got a hint - overwhelmed by all the entry options and connectedness of the space(s) to the beauty of individual set pieces (I felt like a tourist, taking screenshots of almost everything). And the music! My goodness, that beautiful non-cacophonic chill music just begged me to stay and listen. I immediately recommended this mission in another forums where I am active, so hopefully people will get to play it. Well done, everyone, this is a threat. PS: Can I politely ask you to get together with Bikerdude, Kingsal, Sotha, Melan, Goldwell and anybody else who´s willing and put together an official campaign, please? Pretty please?

Mandrasola is a small sized map in which aspiring thief Thomas Porter steals some herbal products from a smuggler. The mission was created by me, Sotha and I wish to thank Bikerdude, BrokenArts and Ocn for playtesting and voice acting. Thanks goes naturally to everyone contributing and making TDM possible. This mission occurs chronologically before the Knighton's Manor, making it the first mission in the Thomas Porter series. Events in chronological order are: Mandrasola, The Knighton's Manor, The Beleaguered Fence, The Glenham Tower and The Transaction. The winter came early and suddenly this year. Weeks of strong blizzards and extremely harsh cold weather hit Bridgeport hard. With the seas completely frozen, a rare occurence indeed, most of the City harbor commerce has stopped completely. Vessels are stuck in the ice and no ship can leave or enter the City, resulting in the availability imported goods declining and their prices skyrocketing. One of these imported items is Mandrasola, a rare herbal product, which is imported overseas from the far southern continents. Mandrasola has its uses in alchemical cures and poisons, but mostly this substance is used for its narcotic qualities by commoners and even the nobility. The problem with Mandrasola is that excessive use is extremely addicting and the withdrawal effects are most grievious. Many are utterly incapable of stopping using Mandrasola and are transformed into quivering human ruins if they do no get their daily dose. And now this expensive and rare substance is running out from the whole City. Me and my fence, Lark Butternose, would love to grab this monopoly to ourselves: selling the last few doses in the City would probably be worth a fortune. According to Lark's sources, there remains only one smuggling lord who still has Mandrasola in stock. The problem is that this individual maintains an exclusive clandestine operation and only supplies a few nobles. Despite our best information gathering efforts we couldn't learn who the smuggler is and where he or she operates. Luckily we have an alternate plan. While searching for Mandrasola related information, we learned that a noblewoman called Lady Ludmilla is addicted to the substance and has paid high prices for small amounts of it. We also know that she has visited frequently someone in the Tanner's Ward waterfront, and since she goes to the area personally we believe she is visiting the smuggler. The plan is simple: I must monitor Ludmilla's most likely entryway to the Waterfront and then follow her to the smugglers hideout. I'd better be very careful around Ludmilla. She must not realise I'm following her or she probably won't lead me to her dealer. Hurting her is also out of the question. After she leads me to the smuggler's hideout, I can take my time to break in carefully and steal all the Mandrasola I can find. While I'm there it wouldn't be a bad idea to grab some loose valuables as well. I've now waited in the blistering cold for a few hours already. Looks like there are a few city watch patrols in the area to complicate matters... I think I heard a womans voice beyond the north gate. That must be lady Ludmilla, I haven't seen many ladies in these parts. I'd better get ready.. Links: Use the ingame downloader to get it. WARNING! Someone always fails to use spoiler tags. I do not recommend reading any further until you've played the mission.

@Mike__ could you please put this in spoiler tags?

Ulysses 2: Protecting the Flock By Sotha The mission starts some time after the events of Ulysses: Genesis, and continues the story of Ulysses. It is a medium sized mission with a focus on stealthy assassinations and hostage liberation. BUILD TIME: 12/2014 - 05/2015 CREDITS The TDM Community is thanked for steady supply of excellent mapping advice. Thanks goes also to everyone contributing to TDM! Voice Actors: Goldwell (as Goubert and Ulysses), Goldwell's Girlfriend (as Alis) Betatesters: Airship Ballet, Ryan101. Special Thanks to: Springheel and Melan (for proofreading). Story: Read & listen it in game. Link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwR0ORZU5sraRGduUWlVRmtsX3c/view?usp=sharing Other: Spoilers: When discussing, please use spoiler tags, like this: [spoiler] Hidden text. [/spoiler] Mirrors: Could someone put this on TDM ingame downloader? Thanks!

Hello everyone, The subject is quite clear I guess. If you want to beta test the mission the forum is here : https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/23100-early-beta-lord-scrogianis-ledger

Changelog of 2.14 development: beta214-06 (17495-11195) * Fixed crash on long frob in the air (post). * Fixed blood decals spawning on player's view (post). * tdm_force_savegame_load now disables script checksum check (post). beta214-05 (17491-11191) * More frobbing fixes: using buttons/doors while shouldering, do not shoulder live conscious AI in Noble Affairs. * Reverted recent crouch + slide changes (6667). * Removed auto-selection of next inventory item when current stack depletes (6688). * MD3 models should support shadows now. * Fixed MD5 skinscale effect. * Tried to fix reloadEngine command. Known problems: * Long-frobbing without target crashes the game (post). beta214-04 (17483-11178) * More fixes for frobbing: stim response on holdfrob, airpocket event fix. * Slow door opening slowed down a bit more. * Texture anisotropy default value changed from 1x to 4x (post). * Fixed shadow maps bug when light only lights noselfshadow and translucent surfaces. * Hopefully fixed reloadScript command, made it restart same map & location (post). * Fixed gap in model containers/bucket (6675). * Fixed shadowmesh on model containers/barrel_wine (6685). * Renamed materials cabinet1_welliQ to cabinet1_Q. beta214-03 (17474-11153) * Fixed triggering frob response in various cases (including auto-loot-body mode). * Fixed various issues with slow door control. * Fixed LightEstimateSystem turning bad performance into abysmal (6546 post). * Cvars from mission.cfg converted into mission overrides, even outside gameplay (6674). * Extended KO vulnerability of flashed guards to 4 seconds (6635). * Cvars made archived: tdm_frob_item_selects_item, tdm_frob_weapon_selects_weapon. * Added textures/darkmod/glass/glass_brick_clear from Displacement. * Replaced textures: chars/heads/face_freckle and chars/heads/female03_head_local (5545). * Fixed overbright surfaces in fog in some module models (5023). * Fixed UV maps and other issues on book_red1 and book_sp1 (6672). * Fixed minor model issues on book_tome. * Fixed curvedtop_door_96x48_3hinge_w-frame prefab (3212). * Fixed some of the recently added TDash models. * Fixed minor error in book_sp1_gold_crest skin. beta214-02 (17456-11132) * Fixed bow shooting crash caused by penis committing suicide (6663 thread). * Fixed guards getting stuck after frequent save/loads (6276). * Added new controls scheme for frob/interaction (6658 post). * It is now possible to slowly open/close doors (6668 post). * New behavior of crouch on ladder/rope (6667). * Surface hit sounds for blackjack and shortsword made better (6641). * Fixed gaps in some door hinge models (6671). * Fixed wardrobe_open clipping through frame, renamed prefab to pfbx (6272). * Increased radius of AAS visualization tool. * Added editor description for efx_preset spawnarg. * Some initialization cleanup in brittle fracture decals spawning (6588). beta214-01 (17445-11121) * A lot of new assets added by @Wellingtoncrab and @Amadeus from Displacement mission. * Now blinded guards without facemask helmet can be knocked out from any direction (6635). * Added walk-in-safe door model (6590). * Fixed shadow culling bug with volumetric lights (post). * Fixed various deviations in smoke particle generation from the other particle generation (6309). * Some stim/response timer now uses game time instead of CPU clocks. * Reduced job system overhead and implemented adaptive chunking for r_useParallelAddModels (6650). * Fixed main menu choiceDef elements promoting linked cvar mission override into user value. * Font improvements for Cyrillic and Romanian (6642, 6661). * Mark complete missions with checkmark in mission downloader (6659). * Added sys.unsetcvar script event (6655). * Added setting to not select the item on pick up (6653). * Removed collision from func_cameraTarget (6654). * Added inv_icon for ore crystal model. * Fixed wrong particle in trapdoor_w-padlock prefab (6662). * Fixed lever frobbox in wall_lever01 prefab (6060). * Fixed editor description of lock_picktype spawnarg (5473). * Testmap prefab now includes slowfall potion and gasmine. * Minor stability fix in AAS compiler (6660). * Fixed UV on model pier_house (6652). * OpenAL build recipe adjusted for CMake 4 (6618). dev17389-11070 * Now portal_dist is multiplied by LOD modifier like hide_distance. * Fixed dynamically started looping sounds with leadin, including main menu ones (6647). * Readded _menuLastGameFrame feature to show in-game screenshot in the main menu. Also fixed several related one-frame glitches (6608). * Fixed parallel lights and shadows from backfaces in light estimate system. Static particle collisions also hit backfaces now (6649). * Fixed saving/loading the special liquid model. * Added mirrorResolutionFactor material parameter for low-res mirroring surfaces (5485). * Added remoteResolution material parameter to set resolution of a remote screen (5485). * Use scissor to optimize mirror surfaces that are small on screen (5485). * Automatically lower resolution of remote screen if it's small on screen (5485). * Added "Full" level of detail in settings for maximum detail. * Fixed next campaign mission not starting if some menu screens were disabled (6648, post). * Fixed shortsword name in tdm_campaign.def (post). * Freeze LOD when debug r_lockView cvar is used. dev17380-11030 * Fixed HUD rendering while compass is active (6644, 6593). * Now runtime-projected decals can be interact with lights (5867). * Fixed GUI of wrong mission being shown sometimes in campaigns (thread). dev17376-11017 * Added new character model: atdm:ai_undressed_old_man_01. Includes LODs, ragdoll, swappable head. * Fixed some potential memory issues, more cautious floating point compiler settings. * Don't allow func_fracture to spawn decals too fast (6588). * Changed starting frame of the walk1.md5anim so it blends better with idle animations (post). * Updated walk.md5anim animation to fix incorrect arm rotation (post). () * Builder guard will now use walk.md5anim animation. * Replaced animations idle_turn_90_lft.md5anim and idle_turn_90_rgt.anim (post). * Disabled "shifting" idle animations during walking (post). * Proper sounds will be played on certain frames where idle animations replacement were used. * Brought back specularmap in "builder_armor" material. * Fixed specularmap on blocks_light_stained_trimmed. * In training mission, removed errant clip brush and fixed hidden gas arrows. dev17343-11008 * AI should now notice absence and blood markers again (6623). * Most visual stims are now more frequent, at least 2 times per second (6546). * Fixed performance issue of infinite decals on brittle fracture (6588). * Hopefully, dmap no longer leaves out-of-date files around (thread). * Fixed parallax confusion on wood/panels/trim_wood_grunge_moulding_desat. * Fixed shop description of slow match (6629). * Added red variants of trim_wood and panel_decorative materials. * Added new paint_paper materials (fleur, gold). * Added old_bricks_darkgrey_wet, red_worn_dirty_trim_wet, painting_downlight.ase. dev17332-10999 * Fixed Linux crash when material with custom shader is loaded during gameplay (6510). * Completely disabled old light estimate system (6546). * Now it is possible to use larger mesh models... at least static ones. * Ported some more fixes from dhewm3 repo: mostly warnings and uninitialized memory use. dev17330-10984 * Tonemapping is now applied to game frame only, HUD and menu are not affected. Includes major & breaking changes in X-ray implementation (6606). * Now engine defines macros TDM_VERSION/TDM_REVISION/TDM_VERSION_FULL in game scripts and GUI. * Added all missing mipmaps in DDS textures (post). * Fixed crash from having many localization packs (6611). * Fixed comments parsing and automatic collision model for OBJ models (6610). * Ported some fixes from dhewm3 repo: save/load, snprintf, bad memset, some RenderSystem shutdown fixes. * Fixed number = 1 in inventory GUI on non-stackable items (thread). * More fixes in fonts (post). * Added cvar r_ssao_insubview which enables SSAO inside subviews. * Split oversized tdm_modelsXX.pk4 packages into more pieces. Known problems: * Compass breaks player HUD (thread). Changelog of earlier versions can be found here.

@STiFUIm glad to see this is back on the menu! Looks really nice. A neutral grey or a very subtle "golden" hue for all frobable objects is the way to go. Colored shaders can get messy with different lighting scenarios, different loot object colors, always fighting players preferences, ect. Also object specific frob colors will open up a brand new communication channel that wasnt there before. Its just messy imo. I did some early prototypes for colors a long time ago, might be in the dev forums somewhere actually. Anyways, great to see it getting worked on. Thanks for doing it.

Complaint From Players The player must pick up candles before extinguishing them, and then the player must remember to drop the candle. The player must drag a body before shouldering it (picking it up), and the player must remember to frob again to stop dragging the body. The player finds this annoying or easy to make mistakes. For players who ghost, some of them have the goal of returning objects back to their original positions. With the current "pick up, use item, and drop" system, the item might not return easily or at all to its original position. For example, a candlestick might bounce off its holder. (See player quotes at the bottom.) Bug Tracker https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6316 Problems to Solve How can the "pick up" step be eliminated so that the player can directly use or interact with the item where it is in the game world? How can so much key pressing and mouse clicking be eliminated when the player wants to directly use an item? How can candles be extinguished and lanterns toggled off/on without first picking them up? How can bodies be shouldered without first dragging them? Solution Design Goals Make TDM easier for new players while also improving it for longtime players. Reduce tedious steps for common frob interactions. Make it intuitive so that menu settings are unnecessary. Do not introduce bugs or break the game. Terms frob -- the frob button action happens instantly. hold frob -- the frob button is held for 200ms before the action happens. (This can be changed via cvar: 200ms by default.) Proposed Solution Note: Some issues have been struckthrough to show changes since the patch has been updated. Change how frobbing works for bodies, candles, and lanterns. For bodies: Frob to shoulder (pick up) a body. Second frob to drop shouldered body, while allowing frob on doors, switches, etc. Hold frob (key down) to start drag, continue to hold frob (key down) to drag body, and then release frob (key up) to stop dragging body. Also, a body can be dragged immediately by holding frob and moving the mouse. For candles/lanterns: Frob to extinguish candles and toggle off/on lanterns. Hold frob to pick it up, and then frob again to drop. Frob to pick it up, and then frob again to drop. Hold frob to extinguish candles and toggle off/on lanterns. For food: Frob to pick it up, and then frob again to drop. Hold frob to eat food. For other items: No change. New cvar "tdm_frobhold_delay", default:"200" The frob hold delay (in ms) before drag or extinguish. Set to 0 for TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior. Solution Benefits Bodies: New players will have less to learn to get started moving knocked out guards. With TDM v2.11 and earlier, some players have played several missions before realizing that they could shoulder a body instead of dragging it long distances. Frob to shoulder body matches Thief, so longtime Thief players will find it familiar. Second frob drops a shouldered body. Players still have the ability to both shoulder and drag bodies. Compatible with the new auto-search bodies feature. Dragging feels more natural -- just grab, hold, and drop with a single button press. There is no longer the need to press the button twice. Also, it's no longer possible to walk away from a body while unintentionally dragging it. Set "tdm_frobhold_delay" cvar to delay of 0 to restore TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior. Candles: New players will have less to learn to get started extinguishing candles. With TDM v2.11 and earlier, some players didn't know they could extinguish candles by picking them up and using them. Instead, they resorted to throwing them to extinguish them or hiding them. Hold frob to extinguish a candle feels like "pinching" it out. Once a candle is picked up, players still have the ability to manipulate and use them the same way they are used to in TDM v2.11 and earlier. For players who ghost and have the goal of putting objects back to their original positions, they'll have an easier time and not have to deal with candles popping off their holders when trying to place them back carefully. Set "tdm_frobhold_delay" cvar to delay of 0 to restore TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior. Solution Issues Bodies: Frob does not drop a shouldered body, so that might be unexpected for new players. This is also different than Thief where a second frob will drop a body. "Use Inv. Item" or "Drop Inv. Item" drops the body. This is the same as TDM v2.11 and earlier. This is the price to pay for being able to frob (open/close) doors while shouldering a body. Patch was updated to drop body on second frob, while allowing frob on doors, switches, etc. Candles: Picking up a candle or lantern requires a slight delay, because the player must hold the frob button. The player might unintentionally extinguish a candle while moving it if they hold down frob. The player will need to learn that holding frob will extinguish the candle. The player can change the delay period via the "tdm_frobhold_delay" cvar. Also, when the cvar is set to a delay of 0, the behavior matches TDM v2.11 and earlier, meaning the player would have to first "Frob/Interact" to pick up the candle and then press "Use Inv. Item" to extinguish it. Some players might unintentionally extinguish a candle when they are trying to move it or pick it up. They need to make sure to hold frob to initiate moving the candle. When a candle is unlit, it will highlight but do nothing on frob. That might confuse players. However, the player will likely learn after extinguishing several candles that an unlit candle still highlights. It makes sense that an already-extinguished candle cannot be extinguished on frob. The official "Training Mission" might need to have its instructions updated to correctly guide the player through candle manipulation training. Updating the training mission to include the hold frob to extinguish would probably be helpful. Similar Solutions In Fallout 4, frob uses an item and long-press frob picks it up. Goldwell's mission, "Accountant 2: New In Town", has candles that extinguish on frob without the need of picking them up first. Snatcher's TDM Modpack includes a "Blow / Ignite" item that allows the player to blow out candles Wesp5's Unofficial Patch provides a way to directly extinguish movable candles by frobbing. Demonstration Videos Note: The last two videos don't quite demonstrate the latest patch anymore. But the gist is the same. This feature proposal is best experienced in game, but some demonstration videos are better than nothing. The following videos show either a clear improvement or that the player is not slowed down with the change in controls. For example, "long-press" sounds long, but it really isn't. Video: Body Shouldering and Dragging The purpose of this video is to show that frob to shoulder a body is fast and long-press frob to drag a body is fast enough and accurate. Video: Long-Press Frob to Pick Up Candle The purpose of this video is to show how the long-press frob to pick up a candle isn't really much slower than regular frob. Video: Frob to Extinguish The purpose of this video -- if a bit contrived -- is to show the efficiency and precision of this proposed feature. The task in the video was for the player to as quickly and accurately as possible extinguish candles and put them back in their original positions. On the left, TDM v2.11 is shown. The player has to highlight each candle, press "Frob/Interact" to pick up, press "Use Inv. Item" to extinguish, make sure the candle is back in place, and finally press "Frob/Interact" to drop the candle. The result shows mistakes and candles getting misplaced. On the right, the proposed feature is shown. The player frobs to extinguish the candles. The result shows no mistakes and candles are kept in their original positions. Special Thanks @Wellingtoncrab was instrumental in improving this feature during its early stages. We had many discussions covering varying scenarios, pros, and cons, and how it would affect the gameplay and player experience. Originally, I had a completely different solution that added a special "use modifier" keybinding. He suggested the frob to use and long-press frob to pick up mechanics. I coded it up, gave it a try, and found it to be too good. Without his feedback and patience, this feature wouldn't be as good as it is. Thank you, @Wellingtoncrab! And, of note, @Wellingtoncrab hasn't been able to try it in game yet, because I'm using Linux and can't compile a Windows build for him. So, if this feature isn't good, that's my fault. Code Patch I'll post the code patch in another post below this one so that folks who compile TDM themselves can give this proposal a try in game. And, if you do, I look forward to your feedback! Player Complaints TTLG (2023-01-10) Player 1: TDM Forums (2021-03-13) Player 2: Player 3: TDM Forums (2023-06-17) Player 4: TDM Discord (2021-05-18) Player 5: TDM Discord (2023-02-14) Player 6: Player 7: Player 8:

For the people eager to play with the latest state of development, two things are provided: regular dev builds source code SVN repository Development builds are created once per a few weeks from the current trunk. They can be obtained via tdm_installer. Just run the installer, check "Get Custom Version" on the first page, then select proper version in "dev" folder on the second page. Name of any dev version looks like devXXXXX-YYYY, where XXXXX and YYYY are SVN revision numbers from which the build was created. The topmost version in the list is usually the most recent one. Note: unless otherwise specified, savegames are incompatible between any two versions of TDM! Programmers can obtain source code from SVN repository. Trunk can be checked out from here: https://svn.thedarkmod.com/publicsvn/darkmod_src/trunk/ SVN root is: https://svn.thedarkmod.com/publicsvn/darkmod_src Build instructions are provided inside repository. Note that while you can build executable from the SVN repository, TDM installation of compatible version is required to run it. Official TDM releases are compatible with source code archives provided on the website, and also with corresponding release tags in SVN. A dev build is compatible with SVN trunk of revision YYYY, where YYYY is the second number in its version (as described above). If you only want to experiment with the latest trunk, using the latest dev build gives you the maximum chance of success. P.S. Needless to say, all of this comes with no support. Although we would be glad if you catch and report bugs before the next beta phase starts

I've read about this before here on the forums, even when the contest had just recently concluded, but reading about it in greater detail years later is certainly interesting. Thank you. It's a pity that it was mostly the marketing people who were involved on the Square Enix side, as I had the impression it was also the devs at EM that had played Requiem and all the other submitted missions and really liked them. I suppose it was as well, but the TDM team mostly heard from the marketing people. Yes, I wanted to note that as well. I even remember how the people over here in the TDM forums were sort of laughing at the fact that the results of the contest were favourable to TDM and had, in a sense, "proven" TDM as a worthy freeware successor to the Thief IP, with all the modding and mapping tools at one's disposal and so on, whereas Thief 4 or Thi4f or whatever Square Enix were calling it at that point, offered no such possibilities. The entire contest, while no doubt declared in good will and something I actually appreciated seeing, was such a self-own for Square Enix, ultimately to the detriment of them trying to bring back and market the reboot of an older IP. Even if Thief 2014 was a terrific reboot (which I doubt it would ever be), it would still have been hampered by people learning about modding being impossible, and looking to the trilogy and to TDM instead, to make new Thief-style stealth gaming content. Still, I appreciate they recognized the quality's of Moonbo's Requiem FM. Given many retrospectives I've seen over the years, gradually, on the 2014 Thief reboot attempt, one thing a surprising amount of them shared was noting how the game didn't feel cohesive in concept and execution, at any point. Not only not to the same level as the Thief trilogy, but also not even at the level when you consider it as an individual game, a new game on its own. Errant Signal, who's not some deep Thief fan, replayed the older games and played the reboot back when it came out, and made this exact observation already a decade ago. The reboot was just all over the place, in every department, felt clearly unfinished or rushed, and the most interesting story would be the behind the scenes at Eidos Montreal, on how mismanaged the entire project became over the course of several years. I think it's telling that, while even heavily discounted on GOG.com, Thief 2014 hasn't been selling well there, nor attracting much interest, whereas the original trilogy sells for figurative (and sometimes literal) cents on that same site - you can buy the whole trilogy for a smaller price than the reboot, which is kind of hilarious - and continues to have great sales and is considered one of the all-time bestsellers. Same here. I concur with demagogue that the actual Eidos Montreal devs behind Thief 2014, at least those who cared enough to make it at least somewhat presentable and playable - even if the actual game directors never got their act together and never decided on a consistent design approach - those would have been much more interesting to be in contact with, even regarding the fan mission contest. The sad truth of the matter is that all too many big publishers these days, especially those formed through larger mergers, like the Eidos buyout by Square Enix, are often marketing-first, interest in developers, and veteran players and new players alike, second. I still remember the sheer amount of money spent on pointless external marketing for Thief 2014, all the while that reboot attempt never really coalesced into anything that felt consistent (rather than throwing everything at the wall, in a panic, hoping something would stick), and was also plagued by all manner of technical issues. Just an overall embarassment, and I'm not surprised that even very lenient-leaning game retrospectives of that reboot attempt. The fact that the Thief IP has been sold away to Nordic Games and Embracer in more recent years, with Square Enix no longer caring about it and other older game IPs, also says a lot. Given the Embracer Group's own woes and bad decisions, I'm not sure any new development team will ever attempt another installment of Thief, even if it was a second reboot attempt.