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How you can help depends a lot on what skills you have. I can Record Video Recording "Let's Play" videos or simple walkthroughs of existing missions and posting them to Youtube is great exposure for the mod (see example .) Be sure to let us know so we can link to them. If you have some editing ability, Video tutorials, where you explain how the mod works, or how to use specific tools, would also be great. Video trailers, showcasing interesting places and features, are also great for publicity. An example is . I can Write Writing reviews for missions are always nice, especially if they include good screenshots. Not only does it give us something to post on other forums, but it makes mappers feel good when their mission gets attention (especially if it's positive). We have a collective thread to post reviews in: http://forums.thedar...s-walkthroughs/ Writing reviews of the mod as a whole, targetted an an audience that doesn't know much about TDM, is also very useful. You could also try offering your services to mappers to create interesting readables, or to proofread for their mission. I can Act and Record Audio We are always on the lookout for good quality audio recordings for vocal sets. If interested, you can pick a few different lines from this script: http://wiki.thedarkm...t:_Average_Jack and send the recordings to Springheel, who then writes a script based on the type of voice you have. I can Translate We could always use translations of our menu/hud into more languages. Also, only a few FMs are aavailable in more than one language, so there is a lot of work there, see the I18N Translator's Guide in the Wiki. I can Model Great! Take a look at the model request thread:http://forums.thedar...-requests-here/ and pick something that interests you. Or just post a, "Hey, anybody want a model?" thread in this forum and I'm sure mappers will get back to you. I can Animate Fantastic. We can always use more good animations. Our current character rigs use a Maya skeleton. PM Springheel for more info. I know C++ Have a look at our coding section in the wiki, pick an issue or feature from the bugtracker of the mod or the leveleditor, download the recent sourcecode release (or better ask for an SVN checkout) and get cracking. Make sure nobody is already working on that specific issue and feel free to ask questions. I can Edit Images We can always use completely new textures and/or improved versions of older textures. How to get started and how to import them into the mod. I can Take Photos Good quality photos of useful textures (medieval-ish building facades, dirt, rocks, wood, etc) are always welcome. The fewer directional shadows and higher resolution, the better. I don't have any skills Even if you can't do any of the above, you can still help out. Talk about TDM in other forums; share your (preferably positive) experiences with other gamers you know. Last, but not least, compliment people when you like their work. Saying "thanks", to a developer or, "I really enjoyed your mission" to a mapper will make their day. -------------------- I'll update this further as more things occur to me.

https://youtu.be/fwJwNLRY4kg "I am not enjoying my journeys, its so cold at the moment I imagine the chill could freeze a candle flame into a fire-gem and ole scratch's tears solid to his stoney face. Suffice to say, I'll be happy to get out of these whipping winds. A friend has asked me to keep an eye on his place while he is out of town. That part of Bridgeport is quiet enough, but he has been having a few problems he would like sorted out. I will know more when I get there." Download Link: v3.45 - https://mega.nz/file/jFEh3AYC#6EwN8eJ0uaioddse4iBTbTs-YKDsHAr_oHx9M4LI4T4 Thanks:- - As always espect to the Dark Mod team and for all the hard work they put and continue to put into it. - Flanders for his excellent models and textures. - Special thanks to the people that answered my technical questions on the forum. - Beta testers: (v3.45) Mat, DavyJones, Keruah, Oldjim, Amadeus, (v3.0) Lowenz, AluminumHaste, Greyman, nbhormore, McPhisto, Lost_soul, Pranqster and the original testers! Info: An update of the original Christmas Contest mission for TDM 1.08. Now requires version 2.14 List of fixes: For version 3.0 - (19-01-2013) The Tavern has been tweaked for better path finding and the punter's all sit down better, the barmaid now has RITS and there is new tavern music The south city gate barracks has a new room to explore, you have to climb to get to it. The Hotel has been improved for better path finding. The hotel apartment has been redecorated and a couple of new things for the player to interactive with and look at. There is a completely new shop for the player to explore and loot. Applied Grayman's winter breathing script, so when Ai are outside they all breath hot breaths of air The Thief's hideout was raised and tweaked for better game play. All side alley's have been tweaked visually. The north city gate has been visually improved. I have added a few new locations for the player to climb to for loot The objectives, briefing and readable's have all been tweaked. All top facing external surfaces have snow texture applied (this took frikin ages...) Added frost decals to every applicable window (this also took frikin ages) I increased perf again through out the map And finally lot of the bugs and issue and request players had have been fixed and addressed. For version 3.45: have placed a bunch of Volumetric lights in LOD better setting there were over a dozen broken or leaking vizportals and or overlapping vizleafs. found and fixed numerous texture misalignment. tweaked the locations and the monster clip for all the sleepers, to try and resolve the ko-death issue. tweaked/edited all the NPCs in the tavern, and one or more them was alerting all the others. edited the first objective so it only triggers after you read the note. remove the drop start for the player, very old mapping method that is no longer required. added Volumetric light version of a bunch of light sources and placed them on LOD better. added a area wide fog light to the sewer system. made the wine shop basement less aggravating to enter. fixed the pathing issues between the gnd and basement in the wineshop. lowered the brightness of some of the lights that were overly bright. fixed some broken lights that had been poorly placed and never spotted when this mission was release. fixed a shed load of broken, misaligned, misplaced, or just plain wtf is that there bits of brush and objects. will update this list as I go. added a building façade behind the SE city gate lookout and made some roof a single FS to enhance the skyline. added some winterised trees from Scrooge FM. moved the window on the small room to the south west and made it an opener, as it had been blocking access to a piece of loot. fix a couple more random issues spotted by the testers.

For the people eager to play with the latest state of development, two things are provided: regular dev builds source code SVN repository Development builds are created once per a few weeks from the current trunk. They can be obtained via tdm_installer. Just run the installer, check "Get Custom Version" on the first page, then select proper version in "dev" folder on the second page. Name of any dev version looks like devXXXXX-YYYY, where XXXXX and YYYY are SVN revision numbers from which the build was created. The topmost version in the list is usually the most recent one. Note: unless otherwise specified, savegames are incompatible between any two versions of TDM! Programmers can obtain source code from SVN repository. Trunk can be checked out from here: https://svn.thedarkmod.com/publicsvn/darkmod_src/trunk/ SVN root is: https://svn.thedarkmod.com/publicsvn/darkmod_src Build instructions are provided inside repository. Note that while you can build executable from the SVN repository, TDM installation of compatible version is required to run it. Official TDM releases are compatible with source code archives provided on the website, and also with corresponding release tags in SVN. A dev build is compatible with SVN trunk of revision YYYY, where YYYY is the second number in its version (as described above). If you only want to experiment with the latest trunk, using the latest dev build gives you the maximum chance of success. P.S. Needless to say, all of this comes with no support. Although we would be glad if you catch and report bugs before the next beta phase starts

There's now an editable fan mission list on the wiki, for the sake of tracking missions made for The Dark Mod. Please read and follow the guidelines, and help keep the list up to date! Direct link, but also accessible from the wiki title page: http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Fan_Missions_for_The_Dark_Mod Discussion of changes (format, policies, entries, etc.) can take place in this thread. --------------------------------------- There is also now a wiki page to track upcoming fan missions: http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Upcoming_Fan_Missions Submissions, progress, and any discussion for missions under construction can take place here: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/11639-upcoming-fan-missions/

Hello and thanks for checking out this post. I'm delighted to announce that version 1.1 of my fan mission "Cole Hurst 1: Eaton" is now available to download and play. This post is spoiler free, so please don't avoid digging into the details below if you are interested. I'm just using the spoiler tags to organize this post a bit. Let me start by saying "thank you" to anyone who has either previously played - or is considering playing this mission. It really means a lot to me. I have been away for a while, but following a round of beta testing that took place some time last year, I've only just recently managed to finish this update. I'm slightly embarrassed by how long it has taken me to complete, but I wanted to make sure that the valuable feedback I received was all properly addressed. Mission description "Tonight, Eaton's wealthiest citizens will gather at Lord Mayor Zelmer's estate to celebrate the city's founding. Nobles, dignitaries, a famed musician, and even the Queen will pass through its gates. While the guests celebrate Eaton's future, Cole Hurst is looking for a way out." For those new to and/or curious about this mission: I guess I would describe it as a traditional heist-style mission - although with a couple of major plot twist along the way. It's a very large map and I think it should take most players at least a few hours to complete. Screenshots Changes in version 1.1 Countless additions and a large amount of smaller tweaks and changes have all made it into this release. I may have already forgot a few things, but here are what I consider to be the main highlights: * New secrets & optional side quests * Story tweaks and reworked readables * Subtitles * Difficulty tweaks and related changes * Stability fixes * Various cosmetic changes * Audio tweaks * TDM version 2.13 now required Contributions and acknowledgments A special thanks to all of those listed below. I'm sincerely grateful for all your contributions! Mission testers and technical support @nbohr1more, @stgatilov, @duzenko, @Acolytesix, @Dragofer, @JackFarmer, @Shadow, @Cambridge Spy, @wesp5, @madtaffer, @prjames, @suzy8track, @datiswous, @boissiere and @Bergante Story Kelly Hrupa Voice actors twhalen2600 (AKA @Benny_the_guard) and Kelly Hrupa

Sounds like at least some of the sound and particle effects are from the store: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153298&p=2537323&viewfull=1#post2537323 I wonder why the guy is so obsessed with Steffi Graf, by the way.

Mandrasola is a small sized map in which aspiring thief Thomas Porter steals some herbal products from a smuggler. The mission was created by me, Sotha and I wish to thank Bikerdude, BrokenArts and Ocn for playtesting and voice acting. Thanks goes naturally to everyone contributing and making TDM possible. This mission occurs chronologically before the Knighton's Manor, making it the first mission in the Thomas Porter series. Events in chronological order are: Mandrasola, The Knighton's Manor, The Beleaguered Fence, The Glenham Tower and The Transaction. The winter came early and suddenly this year. Weeks of strong blizzards and extremely harsh cold weather hit Bridgeport hard. With the seas completely frozen, a rare occurence indeed, most of the City harbor commerce has stopped completely. Vessels are stuck in the ice and no ship can leave or enter the City, resulting in the availability imported goods declining and their prices skyrocketing. One of these imported items is Mandrasola, a rare herbal product, which is imported overseas from the far southern continents. Mandrasola has its uses in alchemical cures and poisons, but mostly this substance is used for its narcotic qualities by commoners and even the nobility. The problem with Mandrasola is that excessive use is extremely addicting and the withdrawal effects are most grievious. Many are utterly incapable of stopping using Mandrasola and are transformed into quivering human ruins if they do no get their daily dose. And now this expensive and rare substance is running out from the whole City. Me and my fence, Lark Butternose, would love to grab this monopoly to ourselves: selling the last few doses in the City would probably be worth a fortune. According to Lark's sources, there remains only one smuggling lord who still has Mandrasola in stock. The problem is that this individual maintains an exclusive clandestine operation and only supplies a few nobles. Despite our best information gathering efforts we couldn't learn who the smuggler is and where he or she operates. Luckily we have an alternate plan. While searching for Mandrasola related information, we learned that a noblewoman called Lady Ludmilla is addicted to the substance and has paid high prices for small amounts of it. We also know that she has visited frequently someone in the Tanner's Ward waterfront, and since she goes to the area personally we believe she is visiting the smuggler. The plan is simple: I must monitor Ludmilla's most likely entryway to the Waterfront and then follow her to the smugglers hideout. I'd better be very careful around Ludmilla. She must not realise I'm following her or she probably won't lead me to her dealer. Hurting her is also out of the question. After she leads me to the smuggler's hideout, I can take my time to break in carefully and steal all the Mandrasola I can find. While I'm there it wouldn't be a bad idea to grab some loose valuables as well. I've now waited in the blistering cold for a few hours already. Looks like there are a few city watch patrols in the area to complicate matters... I think I heard a womans voice beyond the north gate. That must be lady Ludmilla, I haven't seen many ladies in these parts. I'd better get ready.. Links: Use the ingame downloader to get it. WARNING! Someone always fails to use spoiler tags. I do not recommend reading any further until you've played the mission.

Hello! Tracking down information on software and plug-ins that work with D3 / TDM can be a tough. So I have created a thread here where people can post what software/ plug-ins/ tutorials or other references they've had success or failure with in TDM. 3DS MAX 2013 64bit .ase - Default .ASE model exporter works. However you have to open the .ase file in text edit and manual change the *BITMAP line on each material to read something like: "//base/textures/common/collision" which allows the engine to read the correct material path. md5.mesh / animation - Beserker's md5 exporter/importers for 3dsmax. http://www.katsbits.com/tools, Importing and exporting works. The model must be textured, UV'd, with a skin modifier attached to the bones to export. PM me (Kingsal) for help with this. Imported models using the script will not be weighted appropriately, so this is not recommended if you are simply trying to edit existing tdm content. (Use blender instead) MAYA 2011 32bit md5.mesh - So far I've not had any luck with Maya 2011. I am using Greebo's MayaImportx86 for Maya 2011. I've got the importer working however I get a "Unexpected Internal Failure(kFailure)" and the import fails. This could be due to something finicky in Maya that I am not doing correctly. Will keep trying.. Blender 2.7 about - Blender is commonly used and pretty well supported on the forums/ wiki. Various versions may work as well - https://www.blender.org/download/ md5.mesh / animation Blender MD5 importer/exporter (io_scene_md5.zip): https://sourceforge.net/projects/blenderbitsbobs/files/ Sotha's guide Blender Male/ Female rigs by Arcturus - Here Edit by Dragofer: more links found in this post.

I think they're both very good. And, I say that even though I'm not into shooters too much. But, especially Quake 2 is a fantastic game. I know that some people complained about Quake 2 remaster, for whatever reason. There are the occasional post or two on the Steam forums as well, made by single people. Everyone else seems to thoroughly enjoy the game.

Hello again TDM Forums. I'm close to finishing a new FM, "The Maybury Idol, Part 1: A Trip to the Museum", and I'd like to request help with beta testing. Any assistance is appreciated, thanks.

Unreal engine now has a tool for single-camera, markerless motion capture. Supposedly based on this tech: https://meshcapade.com/ It’s far from perfect, but definitely usable. It’s free and offline. https://dev.epicgames.com/documentation/metahuman/getting-started-with-metahuman-animator https://forums.unrealengine.com/t/epic-games-metahuman-animator-markerless-motion-capture-plugin/2729293/6 Position of hands and feet can be adjusted manually to some extend using retargeting tools.

This pinned thread's purpose is to collect links to all the discussion threads for new features to be added in 2.14: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/23080-214-new-and-updated-assets/ https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/23072-214-mirrors-and-remotes-resolution-and-optimizations/ https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/23070-214-tdm-version-macros-and-x-ray-breaking-change/ https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/23071-214-in-game-screenshot-as-menu-background/ https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/23073-214-interactible-projected-decals/ https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/23074-214-new-smoke-generation-system/ https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/23088-214-beta-ko-non-elite-ai-after-flash/ https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22736-font-localization/page/2/#findComment-503417 As well as older Feature Collection Threads: [2.13] Feature Discussion Threads [2.12] Feature discussion threads [2.11] Feature discussion threads [2.10] Feature discussion threads

I have an issue with the minimal system requirements of 2.14 beta 6 which might indeed be valid for older versions too. According to the wiki we need a GPU with 1280 MB of VRAM. As reference a Geforce GT 8800 is mentioned which has only 512 MB VRAM and I doubt there is a card with 1280 MB and not 1024 MB at all. So I have a Geforce 610 with 1024 MB VRAM at work and smaller missions run fine with graphics quality full. Bigger missions, like e.g. the Training Mission, freeze the whole PC with full graphics though, but run fine on medium graphics. Large missions like Displacement freeze the whole PC even on low graphics. All tests done windowed with 800x600 resolution. So either there is a critical issue that happens if TDM runs out of VRAM which should be fixed, or the minimal system requirements need to be raised...

============== -= IRIS =- ============== WELLINGTONCRAB TDM v 2.11 REQ Ver. 1.3 *For Maureen* -=- "Carry the light of the Builder, Brother. Unto its end." -Valediction of the Devoted "What year is this? Am I dreaming?" -Plea of the Thief Dear Iris, I am old and broken. When we were young it felt like the words came easily. Now I find the ink has long dried on the pen and I'm as wanting for words as coin in my purse. I can tell we are nearing the end of the tale; time enough for one more job before the curtain call... ============== -Installation- Requires minimum version of TDM 2.11 **Dev build dev17056-10800 (2.13) fixes several visual effects which have been broken in the mission since the release of 2.11. For that reason playing with that version or later is currently recommended** -Iris does not support mods or the Unofficial Patch- Download and place the following .pk4 into you FMs directory: Iris Download ============== Beta Russian Language Translations by @kalinovka Mirror #1: yandex.ru Mirror #2: Google Drive ============== *Thank you for playing. Iris is a large mission which can either take as quickly or as long as you are compelled to play. I hope someone out there enjoys it and this initial release is not completely busted - I tried the best I could!* *Iris both is and isn't what it seems. If commenting please use spoiler tags where appropriate. If you are not certain if it would be appropriate a good assumption would be to use a spoiler tag* *Support TDM by rating missions on Thief Guild: https://www.thiefguild.com/* ============== WITH LASTING GRATITUDE: OBSTORTTE - Whose gameplay scripts from his thread laid the foundation which made the mission seem like something I could even pull off at all. Also fantastic tutorial videos! DRAGOFER - Who built upon that foundation and made it shine even brighter! And whom also provided immeasurable quantities of help and encouragement the past couple years on the TDM discord. ORBWEAVER & GIGAGOOGA - For generously offering their ambient music up for use. EPIFIRE - Who lent me his fine trash and trash receptacle models. AMADEUS - Who was the first person who wasn't me to play the damn thing and provided his excellent editorial services to improving the readers experience playing TESTERS AND TROUBLESHOOTERS: AMADEUS * DATISWOUS * SPOOKS * ALUMINUMHASTE * JAXA * JACKFARMER * WESP5 * ATE0ATE * MADTAFFER * STGATILOV * DRAGOFER * KINGSAL * KLATREMUS - What can I possibly say? Playing this thing over and over again could not have been easy. Deepest thanks and all apologies. -=THANKS TO ALL ON THE TDM DISCORD AND FORUM=- ==SEE README.TXT FOR ADDITIONAL ATTRIBUTIONS & INFORMATION== HONORABLE MENTION: GOLDWELL - If I hadn't by chance stumbled into Northdale back in 2018/2019 I would probably still be trying to get this thing to work in TDS, which means it probably would not exist - though more details on that in readme. ============== Boring Technical Information: *Iris is a performance intensive mission and I recommend a GTX 1060 or equivalent. I find the performance similar to other demanding TDM missions on my machine, but mileage may vary and my apologies if this prevents anyone from enjoying the mission.* *Iris heavily modifies the behavior of AI in the game, how they relate/respond to each other and the player. So they may act even stranger than they do typically in TDM. Feedback on this is useful - as it can potentially be improved and expanded upon in future patches.* -=- This is my first release and it has been a long time coming! If I forgot anything please let me know! God Speed. 2.10 Features Used:

I frankly would have been p***ed off if they would have changed the level geometry in the Tomb Raider remasters. Especially considering the controls and movements were made with fixed units in mind. They had a hard time implementing the modern controls because of that. There are some things which are not possible with the modern controls. I'm a bit split regarding the Thief Gold remaster though. I don't really think it is as necessary as the Tomb Raider remasters, for example. TFix works fine. For Tomb Raider, the fact alone that you are not restricted to 30 FPS like in the original games was a huge advantage of the remasters, not to talk about the graphical improvements, widescreen support, and a lot of bug fixes. You pretty much have that with Thief Gold and TFix already. In the Steam forums, they mentioned the advantage of having new people getting into Thief, but, I don't think it will be that many.

Now I have more mobility, something I didn't anticipate was replacing my PC with a laptop. But it seems like this is just a plan. Laptops with an RTX 5060 GPU (high TGP) are really out of my price range ($200-250 price increase). Those with an RTX 5050 have also gone up by $130-$160. I'm looking for a dual heatpipe configuration (definitely dual fans) That feeling when you ask a seller on an e-commerce platform and they tell you they've raised the price by $150-$200 from the original price via chat. All the product price tags feel misleading. The prices are intentionally not updated. I do hate bait and switch pricing By the way, I haven't heard of the brands Sager or Clevo in a long time. I wonder where they are now.

Intro: "East of the Rahen Mountain, there is a swampy area, a backwater of river Rahna. Approximately twenty years ago the Inventors Guild began their effort to secure the rights to the land and presented the construction projects of water dams and locks in endeavour to create a water trails for flat-bottomed vessels. The prospect of increased economic exchange between the plains and the mountain settlements prevailed over the objections of displeased neighbours and just five years later the water level in ponds allowed for flow of barges. Good mood of the local lord diminished though, as more and more crops and farms disappeared under the water, wells began to stink, and dysentery started to collect a heavy toll. Guild excuses that thawing and hardship of communication with lock's staff was to blame didn't resolve the crisis. What did, was a compensation - a one-off shipment of nearly half a ton of rock crystals. This aroused comments among people not normally interested in the Inventors and their dealings. People like me. The trail leads to one of inaccessible facilities of the bulkhead oversight in the network of ponds, where, the crystals are mined, pre-processed and sorted out. Several months later... Crossing the flooded and deserted five furlongs in one-man boat was risky enough, but I took my chances and tried to take the boat through the lock, to be closer to the guardhouse. The bulkhead mechanism was too complicated for one person to operate though. Now I don't have the means to go back and water scattered my equipment all over the pond. And with no boat the only way back is a walk along the causeway towards the mountains, but for that I will need to get a good supply of food and water, so not to loose my strength carrying the loot." Description: Break in into castle infested by undead. Thanks: TDM Team for great tool and their dedication in improving it. Bikerdude for working out all bugs, optimisation, improving graphics and readables details. Caer (from Polish Thief forum) for translating. Testers: AluminumHaste, Baddcog, lowenz, nbohr1more, adriannn (PTF), Nivellen (PTF). Build time: Basic playable version 1,5 months, final release after 1 year. Update info: Unbelievable how long it was under construction, but I hope you will enjoy exploring this mission . Can't name all things added to previous version -just tons of them. Known issues: Low performance in few spots. Game sometimes freeze a bit in area around building.

Websites prove their identity via certificates, which are valid for a set time period. The certificate for forums.thedarkmod.com expired on 10/18/2024. Error code: SEC_ERROR_EXPIRED_CERTIFICATE

The community patch packs have some gameplay and graphics mods. Thief Mods and Utilities https://www.ttlg.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=174 TFix https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134733 T2Fix https://github.com/Xanfre/T2Fix There are a few mods here for Thief and System Shock 2. Keyring Ghost Mode Minion Summoner Fairy Light Radar https://github.com/saracoth/newdark-mods Upscaled textures and paintings https://www.moddb.com/mods/thief-gold-esrgan-pack https://www.moddb.com/mods/thief-ii-esrgan-pack

I had my pc freeze with swap on an m2 ssd as well

But the problem is that it does not. Even with everything off and on low, it depends on the missions and the result is a complete freeze of the computer which is unacceptable! Can't TDM give a VRAM warning or something instead?

I can try disabling Parallax Mapping tomorrow, I already tried it on low texture quality. It would also be better if TDM would just crash or give an error message if the VRAM is not enough instead of freezing the whole PC so a reboot is necessary. Maybe the same could be done if the game finds a changed script. Give an error instead of freeze the loading.

I want to say it started in beta 5, maybe after the updates to reloadscript. It doesnt appear to be related to any specific type of scripitng error. To reproduce: - Open saint lucia, - Make an obvious error in any script - reloadScripts -> crash and / or freeze Sometime it will actually post the error in the console and then freezes. OR it just completely freezes before even printing (requires a control alt delete -> end task in either case) . Im on windows 11 if that makes a difference.

@stgatilovApolgies if this was mentioned but I am having a problem if an error is posted to the console. I get a black screen and a freeze if the level tried to load with an error in its map.script file (probably in any script file actually.) The error shows up in the log for example : ERROR:Function 'spiderweb_enter' has the wrong number of parameters for function call from 'test_web1' -------------------------------------- WARNING:idSession: triggering mainmenu watchdog But it doesnt do the previous behavior of kicking you out of the map and posting the error. It just freezes.