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I am going to sort-of reveal that this is loosely like the nature of my upcoming mission. I noted it here when JackFarmer asked about things that are coming along in this post: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/profile/37993-jackfarmer/&status=3943&type=status It too is a builder church. The player is requested by a hopefully famous character in another mission to handle some business that is affecting the congregation. I am looking to invoke some info and history laid down in other missions as a hook story.

I dom't use it, i found it here with the filter set to OpenSource. the TOS and PP isn't excluding for an OpenSource app, if they use ads mean that they also need to pay an server for this online service. OpenSource is not synonymous with free either, perhaps after the beta phase it is no longer free, so perhaps you can take advantage of the fact that it is still free to create a series of textures that can be used or search another one in Futuretools. AI generated textures and assets, by definition, don't have any copyright, so you can use them as you want. https://www.futuretools.io/?pricing-model=free|open-source&tags-n5zn=gaming

I created the page: https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Lightgem In the source I placed the following text: <!-- Page text made by forum user Fiver: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22327-how-can-i-create-an-account-on-the-tdm-wiki/&do=findComment&comment=491145 --> Personally I think the page isn't really necessary because the info is already present under HUD.

Mandrasola is a small sized map in which aspiring thief Thomas Porter steals some herbal products from a smuggler. The mission was created by me, Sotha and I wish to thank Bikerdude, BrokenArts and Ocn for playtesting and voice acting. Thanks goes naturally to everyone contributing and making TDM possible. This mission occurs chronologically before the Knighton's Manor, making it the first mission in the Thomas Porter series. Events in chronological order are: Mandrasola, The Knighton's Manor, The Beleaguered Fence, The Glenham Tower and The Transaction. The winter came early and suddenly this year. Weeks of strong blizzards and extremely harsh cold weather hit Bridgeport hard. With the seas completely frozen, a rare occurence indeed, most of the City harbor commerce has stopped completely. Vessels are stuck in the ice and no ship can leave or enter the City, resulting in the availability imported goods declining and their prices skyrocketing. One of these imported items is Mandrasola, a rare herbal product, which is imported overseas from the far southern continents. Mandrasola has its uses in alchemical cures and poisons, but mostly this substance is used for its narcotic qualities by commoners and even the nobility. The problem with Mandrasola is that excessive use is extremely addicting and the withdrawal effects are most grievious. Many are utterly incapable of stopping using Mandrasola and are transformed into quivering human ruins if they do no get their daily dose. And now this expensive and rare substance is running out from the whole City. Me and my fence, Lark Butternose, would love to grab this monopoly to ourselves: selling the last few doses in the City would probably be worth a fortune. According to Lark's sources, there remains only one smuggling lord who still has Mandrasola in stock. The problem is that this individual maintains an exclusive clandestine operation and only supplies a few nobles. Despite our best information gathering efforts we couldn't learn who the smuggler is and where he or she operates. Luckily we have an alternate plan. While searching for Mandrasola related information, we learned that a noblewoman called Lady Ludmilla is addicted to the substance and has paid high prices for small amounts of it. We also know that she has visited frequently someone in the Tanner's Ward waterfront, and since she goes to the area personally we believe she is visiting the smuggler. The plan is simple: I must monitor Ludmilla's most likely entryway to the Waterfront and then follow her to the smugglers hideout. I'd better be very careful around Ludmilla. She must not realise I'm following her or she probably won't lead me to her dealer. Hurting her is also out of the question. After she leads me to the smuggler's hideout, I can take my time to break in carefully and steal all the Mandrasola I can find. While I'm there it wouldn't be a bad idea to grab some loose valuables as well. I've now waited in the blistering cold for a few hours already. Looks like there are a few city watch patrols in the area to complicate matters... I think I heard a womans voice beyond the north gate. That must be lady Ludmilla, I haven't seen many ladies in these parts. I'd better get ready.. Links: Use the ingame downloader to get it. WARNING! Someone always fails to use spoiler tags. I do not recommend reading any further until you've played the mission.

Rebels: Prison Escape, an abandonware video game from 2004 by a Hungarian studio that went bust. To me it was always a mystery why it wouldn't work. There is no information about the game, no walkthroughs, no fixes, patches or even videos on YouTube except a few cinematics and old amateur footage. The challenge, if anyone has time and curiousity - figure out if it's possible to go beyond the first level prison. To me both this version and the retail copy I had about 10-14 years ago would crash after finishing the first prison. It produces a crash log but I have no clue whatsoever. It's one of those games that Ross Scott might want to do a video of Game Dungeon considering how cryptic the internet is about this game, but until then... This is the only game I saw that took the prison thematic seriously and made it work. It's basically an Isometric RTS/Steath like Commandos or Robin Hood. Update: By accident I found on some obscure sites the necessary files that include a patch to fix the crash to the second level. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WFSESXj3YdJdv8KGraVpqHpKXHvUCHc2 I also uploaded it at Moddb: https://www.moddb.com/games/rebels-prison-escape/downloads/rebels-prison-escape-patch-for-crash-at-the-romero-memorial-second-stage Here's the game itself because it's only sold second hand these days: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VDgYLReyQWlPPN3TPzWF5RvvRWh29jF6 Tweak: Edit the rebels.cfg file by changing the 'checkvideo=#' entry to 'checkvideo=6'. Save the changes and you can start on any level.

As usual this is mainly intended as a discussion and to hear opinions: It's not an expectation that the feature will happen soon or at all. Especially as this would be complicated to achieve, but if it could be done I think it may be a fun capability to consider. The idTech engine had several features that got removed since we aren't using them like multiplayer. One used to be the ability to record a demo of your matches, which makes sense in multiplayer DeathMatch games. Yet recently I started to wonder: How would it be like to have a demo capability designed for TDM? Imagine being able to record your playthroughs or share your recordings for others to watch, for when you'd like to relax watching a FM like a film instead of playing it like a game. You could fly as a detached camera, observing yourself wonder around the map and watching the things you did... or stay in 1st person and see the game play itself like in a Youtube video. The coolest thing would be the ability to see through the eyes of any NPC: Imagine being able to click on a guard in floating camera mode to embody them, seeing through their eyes as they patrol the area and at some point notice the player hiding in a corner through that guard's eyes (even if the AI didn't notice you). The biggest challenge would be a way to record store and reproduce every input from the player, with every AI decision and other entity actions just as they occurred, which includes preserving object physics to represent the exact movements of all entities: Parts of the demo system from Quake would likely need to be reimplemented, wonder how much it knows to handle on its own. Saves and loads would be another tricky one: Each demo should erase what you did after last loading to produce a seamless run... alternatively it could record that as an action and include reloading in the playback. There's probably other challenges but if it's within the realm of possibility, would anyone else use this and think it's worth thinking of?

In the first post of the other topic Geep proposed: Then Stgatilov's answer: But I think applying subtitles in different languages shouldn't be too hard I would think, but I don't know how the current translation system works. The engine should apply the correct subtitles based on the applied language setting, this doesn't need a whole new language system I think. Not sure who's going to write those subtitles though. I can only do Dutch and English and nobody needs Dutch I think. I suggest further discussion of this to take place in topic https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21741-subtitles-possibilities-beyond-211/

Creating a new thread for this as it was being discussed in an old beta-testing thread starting here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21822-beta-testing-high-expectations/&do=findComment&comment=490751 I suppose the main questions are: when should this spawnarg be used, if at all? why was it introduced in the first place? Can we get it documented properly on the Wiki so misuse isn't propagated? @stgatilov @Dragofer

I realized a fun change we could consider for the lightgem, which should also be fairly easy to implement if agreed upon. We know how aside from the amount of light shining on the player, some FM's increase the lightgem based on movement and crouching, you become more visible while walking and especially when running. I'd like to ask if anyone thinks we should additionally support a slight increase to the lightgem based on mouse movement. Explaining how the idea came to mind is the best way to illustrate why I feel it would make the experience more fun. The player often hides in a dark corner waiting for a hostile AI to pass right by as they patrol: In any real scenario you'd be holding your breath as to not make any sound or the slightest movement, even breathing would stand out slightly and could get you spotted. Thus from a perspective of realism, it feels out of place that I can zoom the mouse all over without any consequence... merely turning your head would draw a bit of attention, let alone looking behind which implies the player turning their whole body around. Meanwhile from a gameplay perspective, it could be a welcome challenge having to not move the mouse when a guard is right next to you, keeping your mouse steady similar to how you'd hold your breath as you wait till the danger passes to look away... this would feel more exciting and add a new form of tension, especially as many players complained the AI feels too easy even on the highest difficulty settings. Obviously the increase should be minuscule, possibly just 1 lightgem point: We don't want players feeling they can't look around while hiding, just not doing it too much when an enemy is right in your face. The best way seems like making it based on the movement speed: Moving the mouse very slowly could have no penalty, whereas jerking it suddenly could increase the lightgem by a few points so even in total darkness the AI sees something and may even catch you if you keep looking around rapidly while next to them. Another debate is whether this should be a spawnarg new missions have to configure, similar to some existing visibility properties and lightgem offsets. Personally I'm in favor of defaulting it to a low value, just 1 lightgem point increase if it's fixed or something like 3 if it's speed based. Alternatively we could tie it to the difficulty setting... if it's controversial maybe just implement it as a hidden cvar we can try out? Very curious what you think so let me know your thoughts, I'd definitely like to at least see the concept tested!

Hello! Tracking down information on software and plug-ins that work with D3 / TDM can be a tough. So I have created a thread here where people can post what software/ plug-ins/ tutorials or other references they've had success or failure with in TDM. 3DS MAX 2013 64bit .ase - Default .ASE model exporter works. However you have to open the .ase file in text edit and manual change the *BITMAP line on each material to read something like: "//base/textures/common/collision" which allows the engine to read the correct material path. md5.mesh / animation - Beserker's md5 exporter/importers for 3dsmax. http://www.katsbits.com/tools, Importing and exporting works. The model must be textured, UV'd, with a skin modifier attached to the bones to export. PM me (Kingsal) for help with this. Imported models using the script will not be weighted appropriately, so this is not recommended if you are simply trying to edit existing tdm content. (Use blender instead) MAYA 2011 32bit md5.mesh - So far I've not had any luck with Maya 2011. I am using Greebo's MayaImportx86 for Maya 2011. I've got the importer working however I get a "Unexpected Internal Failure(kFailure)" and the import fails. This could be due to something finicky in Maya that I am not doing correctly. Will keep trying.. Blender 2.7 about - Blender is commonly used and pretty well supported on the forums/ wiki. Various versions may work as well - https://www.blender.org/download/ md5.mesh / animation Blender MD5 importer/exporter (io_scene_md5.zip): https://sourceforge.net/projects/blenderbitsbobs/files/ Sotha's guide Blender Male/ Female rigs by Arcturus - Here Edit by Dragofer: more links found in this post.

Seems like an inoffensive suggestion to me. It would not provide much of a challenge though since all one need do is let go of the mouse and voila: perfect stillness. For that reason, to work as advertised I feel like it would need to be tuned to be a non-factor 98% of the time, such that even veteran players would forget it exists until suddenly, surprise! here's an edge case where it matters. Like: only movements greater than 90 degrees per second trigger the effect. Basically it would just be an in-game jump scare mechanic. If something makes you as the player character involuntarily jump or flinch then that has a chance of being spotted. In the hands of a devious FM author that could make for some extremely memorable scripted moments. That's all just in principle though. In practice, this is an idea that would cost development energy to implement, and we want to make sure that investment is committed wisely. Remember how the community flipped the f*** out when Hazard Pay had the audacity to restrict saving, going so far as to make a mod specifically to negate the author's intent, and basically ensuring that no FM that's not a deliberate troll will ever use that feature again? Great use of resources that was. /s

Hey! With the Thief series the slow pace make them perfect games to play on the big screen with a controller, However TDM has a lot of keys to set up (like the original Thief) so mapping all the keys to a controller is a challenge and requires some compromises to be made. I've been playing with a Xbox360 controller for a while now, and think I have a good setup for TDM, with all or most of the functions mapped. For those interested, I thought I'd share it here, and ask for any input you guys have on what could be improved. The Dark Mod Xbox 360 Controller =============================== Main ==== LS: WASD movement LS Press: Crouch RS: Mouse look / Rotate (with manipulate) RS Press: Eyeglass A: Frob / Interact B: Use item X: Jump / Mantle Y: Lantern Dpad Up: Lean forward Dpad Down: Put away weapons Dpad Left: Lean left Dpad Right: Lean right LT: Parry / Manipulate RT: Attack RB: Change to Set 2 LB: Run Back: ESC Start: Objectives Set 2 ===== LS: WASD movement LS Press: Clear inventory RS: Mouse look / Rotate (with manipulate) RS Press: Drop inventory item Y: Cycle lockpicks X: Cycle keys A: Cycle maps B: Cycle readables Dpad Up: Previous weapon / Zoom Dpad Down: Next weapon / Zoom Dpad Left: Next inventory item Dpad Right: Previous inventory item LT: Shortsword RT: Blackjack LB: Creep RB: n/a Back: Quick load Start: Quick save And here is the profile itself. Copy+paste to a profile file, you know how it works of you use Xpadder: ;--- Xpadder Profile Data --- DataType=Profile Version=2013.07.18 Name=Thief The Dark Mod Set1Name=Main Set1StickDeadZones=92,64 Set1DPadMode=FourWay Set2Name=Set 2 Set2StickDeadZones=92,64 Set2DPadMode=FourWay Set1Button1Name=Frob/interact Set1Button1Slots=Right Mouse Button (2) Set1Button2Name=Use item Set1Button2Slots=Enter Set1Button3Name=Jump/Mantle Set1Button3Slots=Space Set1Button4Name=Lantern Set1Button4Slots=L Set1Button5Name=Creep Set1Button5Slots=Left Shift Set1Button6Name=To Set 2 Set1Button6SetSelect=1 Set1Button7Name=Menu Set1Button7Slots=Escape Set1Button8Name=Objectives Set1Button8Slots=O Set1Button9Name=Crouch Set1Button9Slots=X Set1Button10Name=Spyglass Set1Button10Slots=G Set1DPadUpName=Lean forward Set1DPadUpSlots=F Set1DPadRightName=Lean right Set1DPadRightSlots=E Set1DPadDownName=Put away weapon Set1DPadDownSlots=Back-Tick Set1DPadLeftName=Lean left Set1DPadLeftSlots=Q Set1Stick1UpName=Forward Set1Stick1UpSlots=W Set1Stick1RightName=Strafe right Set1Stick1RightSlots=D Set1Stick1DownName=Backward Set1Stick1DownSlots=S Set1Stick1LeftName=Strafe left Set1Stick1LeftSlots=A Set1Stick2UpSlots=Mouse Move Up Set1Stick2UpMouseSpeed=32 Set1Stick2RightSlots=Mouse Move Right Set1Stick2RightMouseSpeed=32 Set1Stick2DownSlots=Mouse Move Down Set1Stick2DownMouseSpeed=32 Set1Stick2LeftSlots=Mouse Move Left Set1Stick2LeftMouseSpeed=32 Set1TriggerLeftName=Parry/Manipulate Set1TriggerLeftSlots=Middle Mouse Button (3) Set1TriggerRightName=Attack Set1TriggerRightSlots=Left Mouse Button (1) Set2Button1Name=Toggle maps Set2Button1Slots=M Set2Button2Name=Toggle readables Set2Button2Slots=I Set2Button3Name=Toggle keys Set2Button3Slots=K Set2Button4Name=Toggle lockpicks Set2Button4Slots=P Set2Button5Name=Run Set2Button5Slots=Left Control Set2Button6SetSelect=0 Set2Button7Name=Quick load Set2Button7Slots=F9 Set2Button8Name=Quick save Set2Button8Slots=F4 Set2Button9Name=Clear inventory Set2Button9Slots=Back-Slash[uS]/Hash[uK] Set2Button10Name=Drop item Set2Button10Slots=R Set2DPadUpName=Prev. weapon Set2DPadUpSlots=Mouse Wheel Up Set2DPadRightName=Prev. inv. item Set2DPadRightSlots=Right Square Bracket Set2DPadDownName=Next weapon Set2DPadDownSlots=Mouse Wheel Down Set2DPadLeftName=Next inv. item Set2DPadLeftSlots=Left Square Bracket Set2Stick1UpName=Forward Set2Stick1UpSlots=W Set2Stick1RightName=Strafe right Set2Stick1RightSlots=D Set2Stick1DownName=Backward Set2Stick1DownSlots=S Set2Stick1LeftName=Strafe left Set2Stick1LeftSlots=A Set2Stick2UpSlots=Mouse Move Up Set2Stick2UpMouseSpeed=32 Set2Stick2RightSlots=Mouse Move Right Set2Stick2RightMouseSpeed=32 Set2Stick2DownSlots=Mouse Move Down Set2Stick2DownMouseSpeed=32 Set2Stick2LeftSlots=Mouse Move Left Set2Stick2LeftMouseSpeed=32 Set2Stick2UpRightSlots=5 Set2Stick2DownRightSlots=0 Set2Stick2DownLeftSlots=8 Set2Stick2UpLeftSlots=3 Set2TriggerLeftName=Sword Set2TriggerLeftSlots=2 Set2TriggerRightName=Blackjack Set2TriggerRightSlots=1 Any input is appreciated, and hope it is useful for people -Shadrach EDIT: Changed LB to Run, while Set 2 LB has Creep - figured after playing some more that Run+Jump needs to be possible and Creep is very rarely needed. There certainly are some missions where running jump is a necessity at some places.

I've heard a lot of talk about this new concept of "Play to Earn" during the recent months, and I just don't get what it is. People have been selling in-game content for online games, for many, many years. People are saying that games must be played to have fun, but I'm in full disagreement with that. I largely play games for educational value and skill challenge, and I genuinely hate fun. Why can't we not have fun? If people want to treat something virtual like it's a dayjob, then why not? Are you afraid that every game will be like that, and that there won't be any fun alternatives to that? Come on. Even if all large game companies went Play to Earn today, there would still be countless indie developers who wouldn't. I hear that cryptocurrency is bad for the environment because of how much energy it takes to validate it, so why not just sell and buy for regular money instead, like it's always been done? The cryptocurrency market seems to be crashing now anyway, so it's obviously not a stable currency. It doesn't take some NFT tech, to keep a simple server-side transaction receipt, or a validation code. You don't need to validate game content like it's gold bars you've purchased. ...so I don't get the sudden resistance against this, and the treatment of virtual economies like it's a new concept. It doesn't need to involve NFT:s at all. Is it just some weird "fun" revolution, where gamers are trying to enforce "fun" in games? I feel like I'm missing an "outrage train" here, and maybe that's ultimately for the best.

Nice little Mission to play in between in a spare time, but also with enough difficulty to avoid the guards so as not to be boring. Good challenge to enter the theater with the guards in front of the entrances. Much simpler inside, although the guards there were alerted by the lack of the paintings. The rest was quite simple. Good job for being the first mission, congratulations

Looking at the code, the originals were "pm_mantle_pull 750" and "pm_mantle_pullFast 450". The new "pm_mantle_pull" value is "400". A "pm_mantle_pullFast" value of "450" would be slower than regular pull, not faster. With both being set to "400", they are at least similar. Other than that, it's subjective and the feedback from playtesters was positive. Also, referenced internally here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22256-movementcontrols-settings-in-main-menu/&do=findComment&comment=489158

OK, not seeing too many opportunities to improve things yet. The mission is made of mostly model prefabs so there isn't really any excess triangulation due to brush carving. Most of the portals seem to be doing their job but since it's all model geometry all the open doors and windows pose a challenge to help much. Maybe forcing some func_portal closures at the fogged distance might improve things. Speaking of fog, I am seeing a lot of "double-fogged" surfaces. I believe this is happening due to duplicate geometry or transparent geometry. ( See the bright band in center of the screenshot ) : If you can isolate this extra geometry and make it into entities then you can set those entities with a "noFog" flag to prevent them from fogging. This presumes the geometry is transparent though.

That sort of tone doesn't fly in our forums.

Greetings taffers, Here's an early Halloween offering for you, a spooky little haunted house mission. Content warnings include zombies, spiders, and body horror. I set myself a challenge to fit the whole thing in a 1024x1280x1024 box-- mappertools, skybox, everything-- so opening this beast up in DarkRadiant might be the most horrifying thing about it. I'm grateful to my beta testers, as well as various people who put music and sound effects on the net for free, so be sure to check the Notes in the Dark Mod mission selection menu. It may be small, but it should take ~45 minutes for a first playthrough. Enjoy! Third mission in my series.

There's a group of players who have meticulously tested and adjusted ghosting rules for The Dark Mod. Please see: Official Ghosting Rules: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148523 Ghost Rules Discussion: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148487 Why alienate an established group of dedicated players?

I would use this massive list for any fan missions, it includes campaigns too: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148090 There are a lot of Fan Missions for the picking, I myself go for the lesser known ones and the short variety, because sometimes they hide a gem or two. Just like jaxa, I'm a bit outdated after the temporal retirement, but I do remember some amazing campaigns like "The Black Frog". If you intend to play The Black Frog, you should play the first two of the L'Arsene series missions, it's how I did it myself. Also, yes, L'Arsene are a fantastic series. The first mission of L'Arsene is a "rough draft", author was a bit new to Thief level making, but still great either way, after the 3rd you will see how his skill increased by a massive amount.

Ambient atmospheres are in my opinion one of the best parts of the Dark Mod experience, not just for getting a mission to have the right feel but also for inspiration and to have them playing in the background when creating maps. The more the merrier, so here's a thread to collect all the links to ambient music and environmental sounds that could have a spot in TDM's setting. Ambients from the TDM forums Gast's Eerie Lullabies Magnanimous Merry's Miscellanea Orbweaver's Dark Ambients Spadey's Ambients Radioteque's Ambients Kyyrma's Composing Ambient Tracks for Dummies - Kyyrma shows how ambient soundtracks can be made from a set of sounds. Also contains some of his finished ambients. Request for more interior sounds - this thread is a very productive community session where members came up with a large and good selection of new ambients. Uncle Peti's Sound Den Dragofer's Ambients - post #6 in this thread SeriousToni's Ambients - posts #8, 12, 15 and 19 in this thread Ambients from the TTLG forums Custom resources list Gigagooga's Ambients 1 - possibly the largest pack of ambient musics and nature sounds, all of them high quality. Gigagooga's Ambients 2 - this pack puts more weight on shorter swells/hits/pads to be layered on top of a subtle ambient. Gigagooga's Ambients 3 Yandros' ambient loop Sephy's Ambients - a large collection of ambient pieces, including many shorter ones which will be valuable for anyone wanting to try a layered ambience approach like in the Thief OMs and Full Moon Fever. Internet databases www.freesound.org - some of the better composers in my opinion are ERH and BrandonNyte. www.purple-planet.com - a large selection of all kinds of ambient and musical soundtracks to be used freely. www.darkwinter.com - an internet label that publishes a lot of dark ambient music under a Creative Commons license. www.endlessascent.com - sister website of Darkwinter for non-dark ambients. Youtube Asatru Dark - also has very nice reference images for outdoor stone memorials, statue arrangements etc. #4 Void by Raffaele du Marteau & #6 Dreaming of Nowhere by Raffaele du Marteau - possibly the most forlorn pieces I've found on the internet. Alacazam - a prolific Creative Commons ambients composer . Cryo Chamber - for-profit label for dark ambient music with a large selection on offer. Going by their Youtube comments they're fine with people using their soundtracks for games etc., although you'd probably need to buy the soundtracks first. Dark Ambient Mixed Session - as much ambient as something to have in the background while mapping.

Unfortunately, TDM forum deletes the separator between the numbers. So I have to guess where one number ends and the next starts Also, user can rename screenshot manually, or push it through something that would rename it automatically. Thenwe won't see coordinates on screenshot address on forums.

tdm_show_viewpos cvar and screenshot_viewpos command: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22310-212-viewpos-on-player-hud-and-screenshots/

The "external argument about exact duration" is not removed with double click. There is a setting in OS preferences for setting double-click speed, is there not? The challenge of setting the exact duration is the same for both long-press and double-click frob. Therefore, the confusion is not removed with double click. I tuned the long-press frob to be somewhere between "unintentional long-press frob" and "it being too sluggish." Early player feedback guided the current default value of 200ms -- it was originally 300ms. During more play testing, if players are having trouble, the default can be increased and tested. We need to follow the data from actual play testing. The player can adjust the tdm_frobhold_delay cvar to their liking as well. It's more likely that a player will hold frob while moving an item, because for most items, nothing different or bad happens. It's less likely that a player will unintentionally double-click frob an item during pick up, because they know that would cause them to drop it. Therefore, players are more likely to discover long-press frob to extinguish than double-click frob to extinguish, which is a good thing. We want the player to discover it (if they didn't read the manual or play the tutorial mission). Also, long-press frob is used in other games, such as Fallout 4. Getting double-click frob to extinguish to work well along with drop item would be troublesome, because there would always be a double-click delay before a single-click drop initiates. Long-press frob does not have a drop issue, because the player can long-press frob until they see the candle extinguish or quick-press frob to instantly drop it. To be clear, long-press frob also "does not change existing controls, only adds new meaning for" a longer frob press. This long-press frob proposal has already been play tested and agreed to be a good control scheme by several players. Double-click frob would need new code written, would need to be play tested, and would need to be fine tuned based on player feedback. Another rewrite of the code would be a distraction and may not bring us closer to the goal of "providing a better experience for new players as well as longtime players," especially since one has already been found and proven: long-press frob. For longtime players who are not satisfied with this new control scheme, "tdm_frobhold_delay 0" restores TDM 2.11 behavior. After 7 months of player research, code experiments, early player feedback, adjustments, rewriting code, and more player feedback, I believe long-press frob is good enough, given all of the compromises, imperfections, and its iterative design. It solves the problems stated in the proposal on the first page, and its design goals are met.