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Yes, all images, models and sounds would be gone. Even if you made a barebones replacement that only provides a very limited selection of assets you would need to create thousands of files just to achieve basic game functionality (movement sounds, guard clothes and speech, menus, tools and weapons etc.). It's probably orders of magnitude more work than when TDM got rid of all Doom3 assets for going standalone in v2.0. Technically it's probably possible for an FM to contain a full game's worth of assets, except for the code itself. IIRC some Doom3 mods had custom .dll's to extend the base code, though.

Personally I can see some ancillary benefits from trying to move TDM from non-commercial-libre to true-libre, beyond getting off the FOSS community's naughty list. There are a fair few indie devs who have tried to make modernized Thief-likes. None of them have done half as good a job as this community. I think that is generally down to the engine. All the detection and movement systems take a lot of time to implement, which you guys have already paid down. Imagine if those indie devs had the option to use TDM as the base for their games. More of these games would be published, and more would be successful. And this in turn would grow the public knowledge base about working in Dark Radiant and TDM. Some of those devs might make their own public FMs. Some might contribute to the wiki and documentation. Some might contribute to project maintenance or even donate new features that they develop. Personally I would call this one of the bigger things that you could do to keep the project alive. It would definitely be a big project to bring the project assets into compliance or to fork off a compliant TDM-lite. A year ago I would have said it is impossible, but AI is changing things. It can make art and it can write code, and especially when it has a working example of the thing it is recreating to learn from. It still would not be easy, but at least possible. Let this be a lesson for creators to select your licensing carefully. It is not always easy to change after the fact.

I don't think it was original T1/2 as much as the disappointment with Deadly Shadows and its shortcomings when it comes to levels, editing tools, and movement model. And since we're onto meme territory:

Hi, In my opinion TDM does very well in the audio department therefore congratulations to the developers, modders, sound producers and editors. Thanks for your great work. I may have some remarks about how some sounds are implemented but I am talking about the actual sound files here. I noticed some missions alter footsteps and other core sounds and I appreciate the effort for a change although it is arguable whether a particular sound is an improvement or not since, I guess, it is a matter of taste. The only sounds I could never get used to and make me cringe every time are the footsteps on water. I don't know if my eardrums are fubar or what but you won't hear me often saying: I hate the core footsteps on water. Luckily, member SeriousToni came to my rescue. I downloaded his Footstep Update V3 (you can find the link below), borrowed the following water sounds: sound\sfx\movement\footsteps\player\water_jump_land01.ogg sound\sfx\movement\footsteps\player\water_jump_land02.ogg sound\sfx\movement\footsteps\player\water_jump_land03.ogg sound\sfx\movement\footsteps\player\water_jump_land04.ogg sound\sfx\movement\footsteps\player\water_run01.ogg sound\sfx\movement\footsteps\player\water_run02.ogg sound\sfx\movement\footsteps\player\water_run03.ogg sound\sfx\movement\footsteps\player\water_run04.ogg sound\sfx\movement\footsteps\player\water_run05.ogg sound\sfx\movement\footsteps\player\water_walk01.ogg sound\sfx\movement\footsteps\player\water_walk02.ogg sound\sfx\movement\footsteps\player\water_walk03.ogg sound\sfx\movement\footsteps\player\water_walk04.ogg sound\sfx\movement\footsteps\player\water_walk05.ogg And oh boy, what a difference. Thanks for sharing your sound mod, @SeriousToni!

hmm my guess is after reading some about it would be that the tensor cores would use data from the previous frame and the current frame and then try to guess pixel positions using AI to fill in to the generated frame ? i wonder if it would be all that visible but some minute corruption might be possible to notice if the AI guesses wrong (scenes with high movement). kinda reminds me of how we converted ntsc to pal here in europe though a whole lot more complex. ntsc to pal conversion was originally done by playing the film fast at 25 fps the two sequential fields were created from the same frame and displayed 1/50 of a second apart, the conversion is then done by repeating every 5th field with a process called 3:2 pulldown. in essence the frames are roughly doubled and most of them contain the same data as the previous frame, this is in most cases inpossible for the human eye to notice

https://www.waferworld.com/post/why-is-germanium-making-a-comeback-in-the-semiconductor-industry germanium was the material used in the first transistor but was harder to work with, so it got waylaid when silicon was discovered. it does have better charge carrying capabilities and is very stable, with the advanced fabrication technology today it made sense. since it also has 3 times the electron movement speed compared to silicon

New script for mappers: my flavour of a fog density fading script. To add this to your FM, add the line "thread FogIntensityLoop();" to your map's void main() function (see the example in fogfade.script) and set "fog_fade" "1" on each foglight to enable script control of it. Set "fog_intensity_multiplier" on each info_location entity to change how thick the fog is in that location (practically speaking it's a multiplier for visibility distance). Lastly, "fog_fade_speed" on each foglight determines how quickly it will change its density. The speed scales with the current value of shaderParm3, using shaderParm3 = 1000 as a baseline. So i.e. if shaderParm is currently at 1/10th of 1000, then fade speed will be 1/10th as fast. Differences to Obsttorte's script: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/14394-apples-and-peaches-obsttortes-mapping-and-scripting-thread/&do=findComment&comment=310436 my script uses fog lights you created, rather than creating one for you. Obsttorte's script will delete the foglight if entering a fogfree zone and recreate it later more than one fog light can be controlled (however, no per-fog-light level of control) adding this to the map requires adding a line to your void main() script, rather than adding an info_locations_settings entity with a custom scriptobject spawnarg in my script, mappers set a multiplier of fog visibility distance (shaderParm3), while in Obsttorte's script a "fog_density" spawnarg is used as an alternative to shaderParm3 smaller and less compactly written script fogfade.scriptfogfade.map

The devs didn't title this thread, and @datiswous said they're attempting to mislead people by using Russell's name and a retro style to make it resemble Thief, which is cynical. I grew up on forums like I'm sure anyone who likes a game from '98 did. I actually left the Discord immediately after joining it because it was more off-topic doom-posting than anything relevant to the mod. I thought the forums might be better, but it's mostly just grown men yelling at clouds and telling strangers how mature they are, and a few brave souls actually developing anything. Depressing place, I'll just stick to enjoying new missions every 6 months without an account.

True, but, 1. this thread is called "Western stealth FPS with Stephen Russell", and, 2. nothing you said changes anything for me. The gameplay still doesn't look like something I'd enjoy. And, if you really think this forum is cynical, then you don't visit forums much. Actually, the majority of the users are are pretty mature, unlike in other forums.

I also hope the big pile of movement changes is finally over All these changes seem minor but cause heavy reaction. First we got overly lengthy arguments about it internally, now the same continues publicly. I'm not sure why everyone thinks parkour was the main motivation. In fact, I watched parkour videos to understand how the hell it should be possible to do the wall climb up as fast as @Daft Mugi wants it. Now I play Prey and its climb up is insanely fast, totally unrealistic... I guess in the end most people are annoyed by having to wait for the same boring mantling animation and prefer to regain control faster. By the way, I believe 50% of reception to such changes boils down to plain habit. When I took the first build of faster mantle it seemed crazily fast. But after we tweaked it (I don't think we made it much slower in the end) the reception gradually changed and I did not feel it that absurdly fast anymore. That's why I even suggested accelerating mantle gradually (e.g. 100 ms per release) to avoid much negative feedback

We didn't make the holidays (such a busy time of year) so here's a New Year's gift, an unusual little mission. Window of Opportunity Recover an item for a regretful trader out in a wilderness setting, and discover more! Available within the in-game mission downloader or: Download: http://www.thedarkmo...ndetails/?id=79 Alternative: https://drive.google...WTMzQXZtMVFBSG8 Some unorthodox gameplay on regular/ghost difficulties. (Arachnophobes might prefer short mode...) Please expect to need your lantern in regular and ghost modes! Short ("easy") mode is a smaller map, so if you are looking for areas others reference below, or 100% of the loot, you'll need to play on another mode. I wanted to create my first mission before I became influenced by too many others' ideas, and limited myself to what has been done before. As such, this mission is not set in a city/town, and has some features that are likely to be provocative. There's a section some really like, which others don't, either way I kept it short to not last too long. That being said, I hope you do find it fun! :-) Special thanks to those who provided valuable testing and feedback: Goldwell, Kyyrma, plotzzz, 161803398874989, PPoe & Bikerdude (who also contributed a sound). (Please remember spoiler tags to not expose things meant to be discovered by playing.) Like so: [spoiler]secrets[/spoiler] If you are having trouble finding the main objective, here's what to pay attention to in the mission for hints: There is a spot it's possible to get stuck on the ground in the corner by the cliff/rockfall where there's a rope laying on the ground, please take care if you poke around there!

Ok, I get it. You were talking about the mantle roll, and not the mantling speed. Regarding the mantle roll, yes, I don't really have an opinion on that. My issues are rather that the mantling seems too fast. I don't care which additional animation of the head is involved. IMO, the whole movement is simply too fast.

I don't think you really get my point. Of course, a game can't and shouldn't be realistic in all regards (unless you actually simulate something), but, if something feels too arcade, then it breaks immersion. And, yes, of course that's subjective, but, the new mantling simply seems too fast to me. Just like the old Quake and Doom games seem too fast to me, in terms of movement speed. Nobody runs that fast, not even Usain Bolt. And, by the way, if these movements are modelled on some real life videos, I suggest that it is also taken into account that the thief is neither a parcour artist, nor a strongman competitor. So, he shouldn't be as fast or as strong as these people.

Realism is for simulators and even then, there must be compromises. Reasonable is the right word for TDM. Regarding player movement it really depends on the character and how you want players to feel in his shoes. Is this a vulnerable veteran thief or a sneaky young cat? In this regard the increased mantle speed and the (single) grunt sound convey opposite connotations, imho.

No. There are limits to what a human is capable of, and, when a game like TDM, which is supposed to be a "immersive sim" feels too arcade-ish, then it's something I don't consider desirable, especially when the other movement (walking/running speed, swimming, diving, leaning etc.) or the use of weapons seems pretty realistic.

Would be great if this could be fine tuned a bit. I also think it's exaggerated. Again, I like TDM for its rather realistic movement.

Beta 11 Fix finished-on state auto-update was unreliable Slighty improve scanner title/author detect Tags are now named some whatever regular-version-looking thing to force GitHub to put the newest at the top

I know this is semi on-topic and likely guaranteed to never happen. But I still can't help dreaming of TDM someday getting a cinematic dialogue system like in DeusEx: If you get close to or frob an important character that has something to say, movement is blocked and you go into a third person view staring you both down while the music changes, every few lines the angle shifts so you see yourselves from a different direction as you talk to each other. The most awesome thing would be dialogue options still, those I'd dream of seeing even more. Imagine being able to tell different things to a character in a prompt, changing some choices based on what you say! Could be used both as a simple store for street corner vendors... or to tell friendly AI to take different actions like waiting or following you or fleeing, I know TDM doesn't go for those types of missions but I still see it as a worthy possibility. Technically both could be done with a script. So if I ever need it I might put together such a dialogue system myself in a custom entity. Would definitely be fun to see someone else experiment with this through the new subtitles though.

Haven't tried 2.12 yet but I want to ask,any work done on ambient occlusion? I have found it to improve the looks of many missions but it didn't work well always. For example when changing your view some of the fixed shadows in the corners vanish. edit: Ok I tried the 2.12 latest version and I liked the leaning more than the previous versions also deactivating the mantle roll feels like an improvement for me. Movement is closer to the first two originals of the series. Also is there a way to keep settings unchanged when installing a new version? Everything resets even if i tick the box to keep the original file up on installation.

No, I find the controller the ideal way to play Thief games regardless of whether it's for VR or not. I game and compute from my couch with a wireless KB/mouse and a DS4Windows Xbox controller emulator setup. For Thief games, I use the Xpadder controller scheme someone posted on this forum almost 10 years ago, originally for TDM, but I use it mostly for Thief 1 & 2, and it feels nearly perfect. The trick is to get what feels ideal for you in the re-mapping. I saw one poster here implying he spent an entire day getting his controller configured just right for him and TDM (I didn't like his cfg though). However, the native TDM controller feature has analog movement at its lowest that's faster than that for the TG/T2 games (adjusting in_padDeadZone mentioned above didn't help). I like to creep.

Hey! With the Thief series the slow pace make them perfect games to play on the big screen with a controller, However TDM has a lot of keys to set up (like the original Thief) so mapping all the keys to a controller is a challenge and requires some compromises to be made. I've been playing with a Xbox360 controller for a while now, and think I have a good setup for TDM, with all or most of the functions mapped. For those interested, I thought I'd share it here, and ask for any input you guys have on what could be improved. The Dark Mod Xbox 360 Controller =============================== Main ==== LS: WASD movement LS Press: Crouch RS: Mouse look / Rotate (with manipulate) RS Press: Eyeglass A: Frob / Interact B: Use item X: Jump / Mantle Y: Lantern Dpad Up: Lean forward Dpad Down: Put away weapons Dpad Left: Lean left Dpad Right: Lean right LT: Parry / Manipulate RT: Attack RB: Change to Set 2 LB: Run Back: ESC Start: Objectives Set 2 ===== LS: WASD movement LS Press: Clear inventory RS: Mouse look / Rotate (with manipulate) RS Press: Drop inventory item Y: Cycle lockpicks X: Cycle keys A: Cycle maps B: Cycle readables Dpad Up: Previous weapon / Zoom Dpad Down: Next weapon / Zoom Dpad Left: Next inventory item Dpad Right: Previous inventory item LT: Shortsword RT: Blackjack LB: Creep RB: n/a Back: Quick load Start: Quick save And here is the profile itself. Copy+paste to a profile file, you know how it works of you use Xpadder: ;--- Xpadder Profile Data --- DataType=Profile Version=2013.07.18 Name=Thief The Dark Mod Set1Name=Main Set1StickDeadZones=92,64 Set1DPadMode=FourWay Set2Name=Set 2 Set2StickDeadZones=92,64 Set2DPadMode=FourWay Set1Button1Name=Frob/interact Set1Button1Slots=Right Mouse Button (2) Set1Button2Name=Use item Set1Button2Slots=Enter Set1Button3Name=Jump/Mantle Set1Button3Slots=Space Set1Button4Name=Lantern Set1Button4Slots=L Set1Button5Name=Creep Set1Button5Slots=Left Shift Set1Button6Name=To Set 2 Set1Button6SetSelect=1 Set1Button7Name=Menu Set1Button7Slots=Escape Set1Button8Name=Objectives Set1Button8Slots=O Set1Button9Name=Crouch Set1Button9Slots=X Set1Button10Name=Spyglass Set1Button10Slots=G Set1DPadUpName=Lean forward Set1DPadUpSlots=F Set1DPadRightName=Lean right Set1DPadRightSlots=E Set1DPadDownName=Put away weapon Set1DPadDownSlots=Back-Tick Set1DPadLeftName=Lean left Set1DPadLeftSlots=Q Set1Stick1UpName=Forward Set1Stick1UpSlots=W Set1Stick1RightName=Strafe right Set1Stick1RightSlots=D Set1Stick1DownName=Backward Set1Stick1DownSlots=S Set1Stick1LeftName=Strafe left Set1Stick1LeftSlots=A Set1Stick2UpSlots=Mouse Move Up Set1Stick2UpMouseSpeed=32 Set1Stick2RightSlots=Mouse Move Right Set1Stick2RightMouseSpeed=32 Set1Stick2DownSlots=Mouse Move Down Set1Stick2DownMouseSpeed=32 Set1Stick2LeftSlots=Mouse Move Left Set1Stick2LeftMouseSpeed=32 Set1TriggerLeftName=Parry/Manipulate Set1TriggerLeftSlots=Middle Mouse Button (3) Set1TriggerRightName=Attack Set1TriggerRightSlots=Left Mouse Button (1) Set2Button1Name=Toggle maps Set2Button1Slots=M Set2Button2Name=Toggle readables Set2Button2Slots=I Set2Button3Name=Toggle keys Set2Button3Slots=K Set2Button4Name=Toggle lockpicks Set2Button4Slots=P Set2Button5Name=Run Set2Button5Slots=Left Control Set2Button6SetSelect=0 Set2Button7Name=Quick load Set2Button7Slots=F9 Set2Button8Name=Quick save Set2Button8Slots=F4 Set2Button9Name=Clear inventory Set2Button9Slots=Back-Slash[uS]/Hash[uK] Set2Button10Name=Drop item Set2Button10Slots=R Set2DPadUpName=Prev. weapon Set2DPadUpSlots=Mouse Wheel Up Set2DPadRightName=Prev. inv. item Set2DPadRightSlots=Right Square Bracket Set2DPadDownName=Next weapon Set2DPadDownSlots=Mouse Wheel Down Set2DPadLeftName=Next inv. item Set2DPadLeftSlots=Left Square Bracket Set2Stick1UpName=Forward Set2Stick1UpSlots=W Set2Stick1RightName=Strafe right Set2Stick1RightSlots=D Set2Stick1DownName=Backward Set2Stick1DownSlots=S Set2Stick1LeftName=Strafe left Set2Stick1LeftSlots=A Set2Stick2UpSlots=Mouse Move Up Set2Stick2UpMouseSpeed=32 Set2Stick2RightSlots=Mouse Move Right Set2Stick2RightMouseSpeed=32 Set2Stick2DownSlots=Mouse Move Down Set2Stick2DownMouseSpeed=32 Set2Stick2LeftSlots=Mouse Move Left Set2Stick2LeftMouseSpeed=32 Set2Stick2UpRightSlots=5 Set2Stick2DownRightSlots=0 Set2Stick2DownLeftSlots=8 Set2Stick2UpLeftSlots=3 Set2TriggerLeftName=Sword Set2TriggerLeftSlots=2 Set2TriggerRightName=Blackjack Set2TriggerRightSlots=1 Any input is appreciated, and hope it is useful for people -Shadrach EDIT: Changed LB to Run, while Set 2 LB has Creep - figured after playing some more that Run+Jump needs to be possible and Creep is very rarely needed. There certainly are some missions where running jump is a necessity at some places.

Old post, but, the main issue isn't that a game loses "depth" (whatever that is) when it's being played with a controller. The main issue for me always has been, and always will be: Aiming. Aiming with a mouse is so ridiculously superior to aiming with a controller that most action based game are literally unplayable for me with a controller. Ok, the Thief games and also TDM are rather slow paced, and don't require you to aim precisely very quickly, but, it's still better to play with a mouse. The only thing controllers do better is the movement speed. That's stepless/analog possible with a controller with analog sticks. But, that's not an issue here either, because, TDM only has 3 movement speeds, which require button presses.