So, what are you working on right now?

[Xcen]

ambient_world: 0 0 5

 

foglight: basic_fog; shaderParm3 1500; light_radius 768x1024x768; 240 25 20

 

main blendlight for the whole scene: glare; 0 14 7

 

left light: fallof_exp2_candleflicker; 38 49 65; radius 110 135 150

left light blendlight: glare2; 0 10 10; radius 115 128 128

 

right light: fallof_exp1_candleflicker; 38 49 65; radius 70 200 150

right light blendlight: glare2; 0 10 10; radius 70 128 128

[SiyahParsomen]

looks good.

[Springheel]

I'd love to see something like that added to a wiki article. I know nothing about fog, and those images really bring to life the varied effects you can create with it!

[AluminumHaste]

For sure those look great!

[Bikerdude]

• ambient_world: 0 0 5
  
• foglight: basic_fog; shaderParm3 1500; light_radius 768x1024x768; 240 25 20
  
• main blendlight for the whole scene: glare; 0 14 7
  

 

The problem I think your gonna have there is having 3 lights covering the scene and or map, it will kill the fps. What I was in post before the one above is that you should be able to apply the fog attributes to the ambient world light, which would reducing the count to only 2 lights.

 

Does anyone know if a blend light would count as another light source as far as perf goes..? In fact Xen can to type the following commend into the console and tell me if Im correct on the light count -

 

- r_showLightCount 1

[nbohr1more]

Blendlights should have less performance hit than Ambient lights...

 

They do not perform any "surface interactions" or "diffuse" lighting.

 

They just perform a "GL Blend" of a texture.

 

You could make a Heavy blendlight by adding many stages though...

 

They are generally non-shadowed lights unless you "force" them...

Edited January 6, 2012 by nbohr1more

[nbohr1more]

Actually, Xcen's post brings to mind my old topic about the Phobos mod:

 

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/12719-fogs-vs-glare-vs-bloom/

[RPGista]

Yeah, that fog is looking really cool, I think a general, subtle fog works quite well, its been a while, but I believe thats what happens on Heart of Lone Salvation?

[pusianka]

xcen the last picture on the earlier page is amazing! I can actually hear garreth's voice as he walks through this alley. Awaiting more!

[Xcen]

The colours represent the number of lights that hit a surface.

 

Black = 0

Red = 1

Green = 2

Blue = 3

Cyan = 4

Magenta = 5

White = 6+

 

ambient_world + 2 lights

 

 

 

 

 

ambient_world + 2 lights + 2 blendlights + ambient blendlight

 

 

 

 

 

ambient_world + 2 lights + 2 blendlights + ambient blendlight + foglight

 

 

 

 

 

If the colours are correct, he ambient_world doesn't count as a light. Blendlights do count.

 

The performance impact of a blendlight is much smaller than a light that casts shadows. But there is still a noticeable difference when you add them to a scene.

 

In the first 2 scenes I get 63fps but the first one feels much smoother. In the 2nd scene I get barely noticeable micro lags thanks to the ambient blendlight that covers the entire scene.

 

The third scene with 7 lightsources is still ok. I get full fps and it runs much better than most of the TDM Missions out there. The trick is that the two lights and their blendlight don't intersect with each other. Otherwise the entire screen would be white and you would get an interactive slide show.

 

The main problem is that the sky is rendered straight over the foglight: http://forums.thedar...post__p__273424

[nbohr1more]

Perhaps here the "sort" keyword can be of use... If that parameter works for blendlights...

[OrbWeaver]

Those fog images could be one of the items in the theoretical "10 ways to improve the look of a map" article.

[Baddcog]

Did you not look at the example i sent you back on the Skybox issue? If you build around it you can avoid the light touching the skybox. Takes a bit more thought and area but it can be done.

[grayman]

They just perform a "GL Blend" of a texture.

 

I've never used these.

 

Where do you place them?

[rebb]

Foglights and blendlights have less of a performance impact than standard lights, but they add some overdraw.

 

What is an "ambient blendlight" btw ?

 

It would be cool to see what the scenes look like additionally to the lightcount images, i wonder if you could get a very similar look in the end by simply using "ambient world + 2 lights + foglight", using careful tweaking of their settings.

[OrbWeaver]

It would be cool to see what the scenes look like additionally to the lightcount images, i wonder if you could get a very similar look in the end by simply using "ambient world + 2 lights + foglight", using careful tweaking of their settings.

 

I'm also particularly interested to see what the blendlights are contributing to the scene. AFAIK they cannot replace foglights, but they can be used to provide general adjustment of colour over a wide area.

[Xcen]

If you build around it you can avoid the light touching the skybox. Takes a bit more thought and area but it can be done.

 

Maybe in a small sample map. In a larger twisted city map it's nearly impossible.

 

First you have to use one foglight that covers the entire map. If you use more than one foglight you get ugly overlapping effects or strange looking areas without fog that doesn't fit.

 

Second you are limited to high buildings and extremely short and narrow streets. The foglight has to cover the highest building so you need a huge area behind smaller buildings so that the player can't see the part of the skybox that touches the foglight. To place one foglight in a city map with a complex layout without touching the skybox is quite difficult. In Thief's Den or a map with one large street like St. Lucia this may be possible but not in a map like Fiasco at Fauchard Street which still has a fairly simple layout.

 

This sometimes huge extra room behind smaller buildings kills every complex map layout and vertical play.

 

Maybe I missed something. Fingers crossed ...

 

It would be cool to see what the scenes look like additionally to the lightcount images

 

http://forums.thedar...post__p__274883

 

What is an "ambient blendlight" btw ?

 

It's a normal blendlight that adds some "ambient light" to the scene. It looks a bit foggy and much more natural than a normal light with no shadow or the ambient_world.

 

i wonder if you could get a very similar look in the end by simply using "ambient world + 2 lights + foglight", using careful tweaking of their settings.

 

I tried this. You need the 3 blendlights. See the spoiler below.

 

but they [blendlights] can be used to provide general adjustment of colour over a wide area.

 

Can't recommend that. Most of the time it just looks strange. Same for the ambient_world. Colored foglights are a totally different thing.

 

I'm also particularly interested to see what the blendlights are contributing to the scene.

 

 

 

 

 

[Tels]

I'm also particularly interested to see what the blendlights are contributing to the scene. AFAIK they cannot replace foglights, but they can be used to provide general adjustment of colour over a wide area.

 

Hm, but couldn't you just re-color the ambient light with the location system, then? (Ok, blend lights might color different locations at the same time, that can the original ambient light not provide as it is there only once).

 

But maybe the location script can also be used to change other lights if we make it more generic?

[Bikerdude]

I got around this in Lockdown by placing an identical foglight in the skybox and adjusting the shaderParm etc.

[Tels]

I got around this in Lockdown by placing an identical foglight in the skybox and adjusting the shaderParm etc.

 

Which is actually the only workable way, as the game does not "paint the skybox over the foglight". The skybox is a complete new room on its own, and what you see in the skybox is only the view into this "portalled room" projected on the sky-triangles. (Now, whether the engine should treat them as foggable or not is debatable, but that it doesn't isn't so strange).

[rebb]

Looks like simply removing the "forceOpaque" keyword fixes the sky/fog interaction ( altho it also makes it worse in some cases, strange ).

 

http://forums.thedar...375#entry275049

 

Scratch that, see further below : http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/10003-so-what-are-you-working-on-right-now/page__pid__275155__st__2550#entry275155

[Xcen]

Sorry rebb. Tried this some time ago and it didn't work.

 

Same with the foglight in skybox.

[rebb]

Over here it causes the sky to draw behind the fog. But it also causes the sky to not be visible at all if the fog is too thick, flying upwards using noclip shows that its drawing properly tho, at least concerning draw order.

 

Not sure if this suggestion has come up yet : make a copy of the sky material that has forceOpaque and leave it in, then add a "blend blend" stage that is colored and alpha'd using shaderParms so you can blend some "fog-like" haze in using the shaderparms.

Might require turning the sky-brushes into a func_static tho if you want to supply shaderParms to it.

[OrbWeaver]

 

 

 

 

 

I saw that, but it's not quite obvious which ones are blendlights. Are they the slightly washed-out looking shots that don't have the blue distance fog?

 

Hm, but couldn't you just re-color the ambient light with the location system, then? (Ok, blend lights might color different locations at the same time, that can the original ambient light not provide as it is there only once).

 

You can do certain things with blendlights that ambients cannot do, such as projecting "darkness", or using different blend modes for effect, but yeah for most things there might be better ways.

[Xcen]

Are they the slightly washed-out looking shots that don't have the blue distance fog?

The first 3 are without blendlights. 4th and 5th without foglight and the rest with foglight and different blendlights.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Xcen