Has Anyone thought of a Thief Gold Remake In TDM?

[nbohr1more]

Interesting. It seems that they got C&D'ed for no good reason. The mod would've required the original game to work and there was no indication

that any infringement would be involved there. I guess that was one of those "dubious" scenarios I mentioned. Too bad they didn't have the resources

to fight the good fight.

[wesp5]

Yeah, CCP was very quick there, before even a beta or something was out. But now that the IP is owned by Paradox, things may play out differently! They already released Bloodlines with my basic patch included on GOG and got themselves the Bloodlines trademark as well. So maybe there will be a remake coming out one day, or even better: a sequel. Still I wrote this to show that only one overactive lawyer can stop a project like this...

[freyk]

Here is a screenshot of an early version of the converter.

(at this moment it can validate thief-files, convert them to PK4 and extract content)

 

In which fileformat shall i convert the textures?

[nbohr1more]

Textures need to be DXT5 with alpha. DDS container.

[freyk]

Ok.

 

I got the sound-conversion method ready.

Its uses ffmpeg instead of oggenc, because it doesnt recognize the wav-file(?)

(but its makes the size of the converter bigger, like 40 mb)

[demagogue]

I'll be intetested if you can convert the mix of negative & positive into only positive geometry that closes off the void and leafs. Do that and you're really set.

[freyk]

At the moment i dont have the knowledge, experience and interest to convert maps and Models.
So we need to find someone.


I publisched an early version of the converter on the downloadpage of the TDM installer.
(At this moment it validates the original thief game files of some versions and convert them to PK4.

(it can also convert the sound)
But if you want to use it, you need to download some files separately. Check the readme for more info.
Use it on your own risk.

The user is fully responible if he/she uses this tool and the files it creates.

I will publisch sourcecode as soon as possible, so people can add their geometry conversion code to it.
But is it safe to publisch md5 hashes of the original thief files, with the sourcecode?

Edited May 31, 2016 by freyk

[NeonsStyle]

Unless EM officially signs-off on the use of Thief IP in fan projects, the only legal way to do this would

be to add code to TDM to check for a valid TG install and procedurally generate the levels based on map

data from TG maps. It's possible but nobody with the skillset has expressed interest. The closest we've

seen is a Ultima Underworld conversion project:

 

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/15322-ultima-underworld-to-dark-mod-map-conversion-sample/

This is not true. In copyright law there is a section called Fair Use. With fair use, you can use

a copyrighted work, or parts of it, for another creative purpose, as long as credit is given.

Cover songs are a perfect example of this. The other issue of why it isn't a problem

is because you aren't earning any money for it.

 

Neon (formerly Venus)

[kamilavalamp]

This is not true. In copyright law there is a section called Fair Use. With fair use, you can use

a copyrighted work, or parts of it, for another creative purpose, as long as credit is given.

Cover songs are a perfect example of this. The other issue of why it isn't a problem

is because you aren't earning any money for it.

 

Neon (formerly Venus)

 

You might not be earning money from it, but if you don't put a check for a valid game install they can say they are losing money from it so having it check for a valid game install is good. If anything having that lets you say your helping them increase their game sales.

Edited May 31, 2016 by kamilavalamp

[nbohr1more]

If anyone were to produce an independent Thief 1 reproduction in The Dark Mod it would be in violation of two of the 4 criteria for Fair Use:

 

1) It supersedes the original work rather than commenting on or criticizing it

2) It would damage the market for the original work since most (new) potential buyers would rather use the TDM version than buy the original

 

So, it still stands that only a tool that uses the original install would be considered legal. And depending on locality, it might only be legal to offer

the source code. A compile might still fall into some sorta "copy protection circumvention" legal quagmire, even if the tool requires the Thief Gold

CD to remain in the CD-ROM drive since it would presumably be a launcher tool. Doubtful that this would really ever be pursued though. They

would also go after Darkloader if that were the case.

[Anderson]

Let's just say that the converter can be sticked and in open discussion, unrestrained circulation here, on the forums, on the wiki maybe, but not officially promoted as part of the mod. It's not like attorneys have nothing better to do, especially if there's no precedent for freeware products getting problems with this. Realistically nobody cares if there is no similar case in the past.

If it's not part of the game officially they can't do anything - even if everyone knows how to set it up. And go figure who is the author when everyone uses pseudonames and proxy servers (if you're a US resident at any rate).

Chances are it won't even work well enough to be eligible for suing.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Anderson

[freyk]

I have uploaded a new version (and sourcecode) of my converter to my personal site.

 

Now it can also converts the textures, but I dont know it I the dds files works.

Could somebody be so kind, to test my converter and test the pk4's (especially fam.pk4 and snd.pk4) in dark radiant?

(the conversion takes about 15 minutes)

 

And if someone has thief 1 (instead of gold) and willing to help, please contact (PM) me also.

Edited June 4, 2016 by freyk

[freyk]

I have some technical questions
Do I have to follow the tdm-wiki-article "How to add Textures to The Dark Mod" when converting the textures?
Is it wise to use a higher zip-compression, when the pk4's are beeing packed?

[Rejlive]

I dont think there is anything stopping someone from making Thief Gold remake on TDM for personal use, but to upload or share would be bad. While technically you shouldn't make it for personal use either, but similar to recording a phone call without letting the other party know, you cant be prosecuted if you dont tell anyone. If I were a Modder and I made Thief Gold/TMA using TDM the temptation to share it would be to great for me personally. It does puzzle me that they dont release the license to someone willing to make something better since Thief 2014 was crap in my opinion, at least when compared to the originals.

[SeriousToni]

Wow - 4 years later you found this thread! But you're totally right on Thief 2014.

[chakkman]

Thief 2014 is actually anything but crap if you take it for what it is: A reboot, and a pretty good stealth game on its own. 

You know, I'm often quite a diehard as well when it comes to certain franchises I like, but, sometimes I think such games aren't given a fair chance. It's not the best game in the world, but, it definitely has its moments, has a great atmosphere, and fun gameplay. The characters are quite pale, but, apart from that, it's a pretty nice game, IMO. People simply expected too much of the old Thief's in it. Same issue as with Thief Deadly Shadows, kind of. Again, I can understand where people are coming from, but, if you are a bit more open minded, you can judge the games more fairly.

I enjoyed all the Thief's. The first two were probably the best, but, I played TDS through 3 times, for example, and it always was a fun experience. And, I also played Thief 2014 through, and probably will do so a second time. 

Edited February 12, 2021 by chakkman

[STiFU]

7 hours ago, chakkman said:

Thief 2014 is actually anything but crap if you take it for what it is: A reboot, and a pretty good stealth game on its own. 

You know, I'm often quite a diehard as well when it comes to certain franchises I like, but, sometimes I think such games aren't given a fair chance. It's not the best game in the world, but, it definitely has its moments, has a great atmosphere, and fun gameplay. The characters are quite pale, but, apart from that, it's a pretty nice game, IMO. People simply expected too much of the old Thief's in it. Same issue as with Thief Deadly Shadows, kind of. Again, I can understand where people are coming from, but, if you are a bit more open minded, you can judge the games more fairly.

I enjoyed all the Thief's. The first two were probably the best, but, I played TDS through 3 times, for example, and it always was a fun experience. And, I also played Thief 2014 through, and probably will do so a second time. 

Thief 2014 started out quite exciting, with that big hub-area, but after some time, you notice its problems and so it gets boring quickly.

• Linear level sections
• Inability to return to previous level sections (that's a big "no no" for games that revolve around finding loot)
• Extensive viewport animations whenever you grab something (makes me dizzy)
• Magic escape dodge doesn't feel very stealthy

[chakkman]

Fair enough. I get your points, and, Thief 2014 surely isn't perfect. My assertion was that it's not crap, as has been stated here.

Again, I get where people are coming from. Thief is one of those die hard fan franchises, where everything which is slightly diverse gets bashed. Just like some people on TTLG bash TDM, because it's different to the original Thief's. If you have a more open mind, and take it for what it is (simply... another stealth game), it's pretty fun in my eyes. That's all I want to say, with the notion that people really miss out on something when they walk past it, because some die hards bash it. Also because stealth games are so rare these days.

Edited February 12, 2021 by chakkman

[OrbWeaver]

2 hours ago, STiFU said:

Thief 2014 started out quite exciting, with that big hub-area, but after some time, you notice its problems and so it gets boring quickly.

• Inability to return to previous level sections (that's a big "no no" for games that revolve around finding loot)

That was one of my biggest annoyances too. There is literally no reason why those one-way valves needed to exist in the middle of a level, they contribute nothing to gameplay, and they interfere with the loot objectives as you say.

I also took issue with the pointless "console waggling" to traverse piles of debris, and the parts of the game where you are forced into the open or placed in the middle of already-alerted enemies.

But I agree with chakkman that the game wasn't crap. It was beautiful to look at and very atmospheric, with just a few gameplay flaws which got in the way (and it was way better than the unfinished bug-ridden shite that was Deadly Shadows).

[New Horizon]

The sound propagation in Thief 2014 was pretty broken a lot of the time, as was the AI vision.  It really didn't have the necessary attention to detail to qualify as a 'good' game, in my opinion.  Visually, the game was very pretty but I really can't say it was very good at all...not for a AAA title, and especially not after the same studio did such a great job with Deus Ex.  It's a shame the community wasn't interested in digging into the game and trying to hack it, to see if some things could be improved but from what I gather it was all so tightly locked down that it wasn't possible.

I have my issues with Theif 3 too, but the sound prop and AI visual systems both worked as they should in those games

[peter_spy]

8 hours ago, STiFU said:

• Linear level sections
• Inability to return to previous level sections (that's a big "no no" for games that revolve around finding loot)
• Extensive viewport animations whenever you grab something (makes me dizzy)
• Magic escape dodge doesn't feel very stealthy

Plus no jumping, mantling only in designated spots. Thief 3 mantling is glitchy and broken to this day, but at least it exists ;)

[Anderson]

7 hours ago, OrbWeaver said:

 (and it was way better than the unfinished bug-ridden shite that was Deadly Shadows).

Aw

[JackFarmer]

9 hours ago, New Horizon said:

The sound propagation in Thief 2014 was pretty broken a lot of the time, as was the AI vision.  It really didn't have the necessary attention to detail to qualify as a 'good' game, in my opinion.  Visually, the game was very pretty but I really can't say it was very good at all...not for a AAA title, and especially not after the same studio did such a great job with Deus Ex.  It's a shame the community wasn't interested in digging into the game and trying to hack it, to see if some things could be improved but from what I gather it was all so tightly locked down that it wasn't possible.

I have my issues with Theif 3 too, but the sound prop and AI visual systems both worked as they should in those games

Perfect summary.

[New Horizon]

1 hour ago, JackFarmer said:

Perfect summary.

I'll add to that by saying they placed far more importance on quick time events, and motion capture than they did on making a 'game'.  That's what irks me about a lot of so called 'games' these days.  They're not games, they are moderately interactive, casual entertainment.  They were trying to make Thief a AAA title.  Had they narrowed their focus, reduced their budget and simply focused on a well crafted 'game', they could have pulled off something amazing.

[chakkman]

... which probably would have sold even worse.

I understand your objections. They didn't hinder me to enjoy the game though. But then, I parted with the idea that I play a Thief successor in the first place. The Tomb Raider reboots aren't real Tomb Raider games either. Those are MUCH worse than the original though.

Anyway, again, I see your point. Unlike other franchises (Tomb Raider, Splinter Cell), they didn't completely change the core of the gameplay though. Thief 2014 is still a stealth game. Unlike Tomb Raider, which is a RPG survival action adventure mix, and Splinter Cell, which is a better shooter now.

Edited February 13, 2021 by chakkman