The Adventures of Thomas: Lucy's Quest

[McPhisto2051]

It is a really nice and cool mission (and enourmous!) but I got lost completely. After dropping off the letter at the farm, there seems to be no active quest anymore. I dont know how to get to the lab nor through a dozen doors or anywhere else . In the manor are 3 keys which are locked behind other doors where I dont have the key for and so on...

[geegee]

38 minutes ago, McPhisto2051 said:

After dropping off the letter at the farm, there seems to be no active quest anymore.

Spoiler

The letter to drop off is Aeden's letter to Gwyneth.  This completes the objective and there should've been an info notice "I should follow Gwyneth".  Depending on where she is in her routine it might take a minute for her to head to the drop box.  She then runs to the other end of the farm, to the fire in front of the gazebo back there.  Wait.  When the procedure is finished items will appear on the table there, in the usual way.  Picking up the note will trigger new objectives, picking up the key gives you access to S's rooms.  Continuing the main line of mandatory objectives will lead to optional objectives and, I believe, a fairly clear path to achieve them.

   

[McPhisto2051]

thanks a lot, I completely missed the letter on the barrel and delivered the smiths letter

 

[geegee]

1 hour ago, McPhisto2051 said:

I completely missed the letter on the barrel and delivered the smiths letter

The smiths letter went in the right place and finished that objective.

I'm putting this on my "need to fix" list for a future update (long time future) because the gameplay really ought to block the player from going forward until after the letter is picked up.  Since it's part of a mandatory objective.  In fact a betatester made a note of this issue and my fix was half-assed. So sorry about that.

[Marbrien]

geegee, thank you for this massive and in places very good looking mission.

I managed to complete version 1, and am about to take on version 1.1. 

To save myself some RSI in my blackjacking arm, can I just check:

Spoiler

do the Hammerites still respawn in version 1.1?

 

[McPhisto2051]

when you get automatically the newest version (downloaded it today!), then yes, they do.

I got stuck again...
I have the herb serum and no clue, how to get to the alchemist...

Spoiler

already have 2 teleporters, missing just around 7 keys total. (the gate seems to be the most important one)

 

[geegee]

3 hours ago, McPhisto2051 said:

have the herb serum and no clue, how to get to the alchemist.

Spoiler

Picking up the Airmid's herbs sets off another floating ball sequence which you seem to've missed.  As usual, the ball opens up another passage.  When first entering the grotto where you got the herbs there was only one opening, the one you came through - and there were 3 similar openings around the circumference that were sealed off.  The ball floats through one of these sealed openings leading to the lab, unsealing it as it goes.  So check the grotto!

As for the keys associated with optional objectives and loot, there's way too many spoilers I'd have to reveal to direct you to them all.  You have to be observant, check what tools you have to get places? Where are the kind of entrance-places that the player is near always directed to in a TDM mission?  Keys that're inside a room will always have an alternate entrance.  Here's one spoiler (because it reveals "what's ahead" to other players) the manor vents key is inside the vent near Edgar's body.  He used it to get in, but was then got stuck and died.  This key will lead somewhere....

 

[geegee]

8 hours ago, Marbrien said:

To save myself some RSI in my blackjacking arm

Version 1.1 only fixes an ugly immersion breaking bug where some AI stood around like scarecrows instead of following their paths and the TDM natural order of things.  Otherwise it's the same.  The update might break your savegame, I dunno. 

It takes a few minutes to blackjack the hammers and slip in to an area of the hall that was inaccessible before so you can complete the optional objective.  I think it should be worth it - but it's up to you.  I'm taking note of your issue as of other issues raised, but large and radical fixes affecting gameplay aren't in the cards in the near future because in an FM of this size such changes take considerable time, not just to implement but then to check through all the possible repercussions, glitches that might be newly introduced.  And I'll never, ever, satisfy everyone.  This FM took YEARS to make, and at this point it comes more or less "as is, where is".   Because I want to move on.  I want to use what I've learned to make a new and much shorter/tighter and hopefully more intense FM from scratch.  

[NeonsStyle]

@geegee Fair enough. I missed he wasn't a thief. Then it makes sense the way you did it. I have to say though on a more
positive tone. The inner parts of the church were just gorgeous. I never found the gate key and had to use noclip. There was
no way I could even get into the inner courtyard guarded by all those Builders who were guarding the inner part of the church. Opening the door and looking for a bit tended to alert them. I could douse one light, but by the 2nd they were alerted. In the end I had to noclip through there. I usually like ghosting missions but this is pretty hard to ghost.  

During my noclip, I did find 4 guards in inside places the player can't get to (no doors). 

Still very nice mission, very large and sprawling. Love the map. Wish we could zoom in on maps. 

Thankyou

[Knockout Thief]

This is a massive key hunt type of quest , at least that is how I would describe it for those wondering. 

[geegee]

5 hours ago, NeonsStyle said:

In the end I had to noclip through there. I usually like ghosting missions but this is pretty hard to ghost

The mission wasn't made for ghosting since that's not my playstyle, so I don't know all the arcane rules.  Does KOing an unwary guard break the rules?  So I'm unsure whether ghosting Lucy is possible but I think it might be.  Perhaps the 'Aeden's staff' optional objective is impossible to ghost.  Or perhaps not.  It'd take an expert, I think, to do it.

But I tried ghosting the area you now have trouble with because "not ghostable".  Found out:  "huh!  so that's what the 'creep' key is for!"  Not the same as 'crouch', which for some reason I assumed.  I smiled and used my new discovery.  For the observant player, and I assume real ghosters are the most observant, there's more than one way to get through the courtyard.  In fact it's rather easy to ghost, unless alerts happen with zero indication of an AI being alerted.  I killed all the lights but one in that courtyard before I hit the grass - so the lightgem was totally black.  Of course I had the key to the door to the hall!  Aeden told me where it was!  Why would a player noclip past that door?  Noclipping past that door makes no sense and probably broke the game, but you weren't playing anyway.

eta:  there are no AI in sealed rooms in the builder's hall.  

The only AI in sealed rooms (calk) are waiting to be teleported and they're well outside any play area.

Edited June 28, 2022 by geegee

[CountMorillonite]

It took me forever to move that board resting against a vent gate

Spoiler

in order to retrieve Aeden's Staff

 And I couldn't do it without alerting the guy in the room. I had to knock  him out and then all I could do to advance was

Spoiler

remove the bar securing the other vent which led to where I've already been.

The hallway leading to a very brightly lighted room is impossible to navigate and the vent inside the hallway leads in a loop and goes nowhere.

 

Question: Was that board the only way to advance in the vents? It looks like I'm taking a difficult way around and I missed something along the way. Also, how can a room as brightly lit and well occupied be stealthed. Is there a light switch to help me along?

[geegee]

3 hours ago, CountMorillonite said:

Was that board the only way to advance in the vents?

No. 

The Aeden's staff optional objective is the hardest of the game. 

To point out directions here, though, is getting into an area of heavy-duty spoilers ... so I'm constrained in my response just as I was constrained in my responses to the "endless keyhunt" complaints because to show the rather simple direction would be a huge spoiler.  So I had to bite my tongue and take it.  

Aeden's staff is different, though - harder.  I've never tried a no-KO ghost playthrough.  Because I'm clumsy and have slow reflexes.  I think it might be possible to do a stealth no-alerts playthrough.  Are you allowed to KO?    I think I've gotten the staff a few times in my playthroughs without alerting the builders in that room. 

The only switchable lights in the FM are table lamps.  The cylindrical style wall lamps aren't extinguishable.  The other fire and gas wall lamps are extinguished by water.  In the Ox all waiters and commoners in the common room and outside are friendlies - except for the waitress in the upper lounge which is filled with enemies.  

You need water arrows.  Moss arrows.  Rope arrows.  I've never used a gas arrow in a playthrough of the FM but one would make things easier, for sure. 

I'm going to replay the area and check through the locations that you mentioned - the loop etc. - then if it's OK with you I'll PM you with some info, tho' I'll ask you if you want the info first. So's not to spoil it for others who get that far in the game (few and far between!).  I find it almost impossible not to click the "reveal spoiler" tags and read the info ... and, y'know, spoilers do spoil the real deal.

Edited June 29, 2022 by geegee

[CountMorillonite]

Thanks for the reply. I'm going to have to give up on the ghosting. I'm in awe of anyone who accomplishes it.  So far I certainly don't see anyway to get Aeden's Staff without accessing the vents, so I'm going to leave that for later. I'm  still trying to get around without being noticed.

You can PM me anytime. I know I'm going to be playing this mission many times in the future and its a privilege to converse with the missions author.

[datiswous]

9 hours ago, geegee said:

To point out directions here, though, is getting into an area of heavy-duty spoilers

So use a spoiler hider!

[geegee]

2 hours ago, datiswous said:

So use a spoiler hider!

If humans weren't human, but were simple programmed AI instead, then that would be an universally correct answer.  However there are small and major spoilers, in these cases major and people are like

  Reveal hidden contents

I guess I shouldn't have read that..

[geegee]

Anyway I tried and you can't ghost it.  

I ghosted through to the manor with no KOs except for the obligatory KO of the bad guy and dealing with the necromorphs, which I think is fair enough, but I couldn't ghost the one room, the accounts room in the manor.

This's because the FM wasn't made with ghosting in mind (or with no KOing in mind either).   And the AI have an incredibly acute sense of the slightest sound which they can differentiate into good/bad guys.  Which is OK, I wouldn't want to change that - but it has to be taken into account when building an FM that allows for ghosting.  You can't shoot out a candle next to them.  You can't shoot a rope arrow anywhere near them.   

So it was slow and frustrating and not fun even to get as far as I did and I don't think a ghosting aficionado would like it either.  

I did learn something about ghosting and will take that into account in my next FM, if I ever complete another one - because in an FM made to allow for it the mode could be very fun.  

If a player doesn't like a large mission, and/or disallows the use of keys, and/or requires a FM to be ghostable, this FM wasn't made to fit those specs.  That's just the way it is.

This FM is made for KOing enemies, doing well by friends, picking up loot and hopefully getting immersed in the atmosphere/story.  

[Marbrien]

I've just finished v1.1 on Expert.  There were no T pose AI.  Thanks for the mission!

One quick question, in Airmid's grotto with all objectives met there were still two exits which were inaccessible (glassed over with a spell, presumably).  Is that as it should be, or have I failed to do something to open them?

[Shadow]

5 hours ago, geegee said:

about ghosting and will take that into account in my next FM, if I ever complete another one - because in an FM made to allow for it the mode could be very fun.

You better make another one! Lucy was ambitious but another one doesn't have to be so grand if you feel it was too much. Either way you should make more with your mapping talents.

[geegee]

14 hours ago, Marbrien said:

in Airmid's grotto with all objectives met there were still two exits which were inaccessible (glassed over with a spell, presumably).  Is that as it should be, or have I failed to do something to open them?

Those lead nowhere.  The area was originally designed to be a possible hub, but that purpose got overwritten as the story - and constraints on my time - developed.  A whole FM could be designed around opening up those exits, inviting mission creep, and the FM needed to be put to bed.  

[geegee]

14 hours ago, Shadow said:

You better make another one!

Thanks for the encouragement Shadow.  Very much appreciated.

[geegee]

14 hours ago, Marbrien said:

There were no T pose AI. 

The @Dragofer script solution is EXCELLENT.  It fixes not just the T-posing side effect of my earlier attempt to fix a potentially game-busting problem but it fixes the original problem and raises the fps everywhere in the FM. It depends on individual CPUs by how much fps is improved.  In some cases it raises fps enormously as in unplayable->playable.  In most cases it raises fps by a smaller but very real margin.

The original problem the script addresses is caused by the size of the FM, not the gfx and GPU side of things, but the AI side of things which is handled by the CPU.  

The script should go into a repository somewhere for other FM authors who make larger missions, esp. those with many AI. 

[TheUnbeholden]

The download link to the pk4 is down.

[stgatilov]

On 7/1/2022 at 11:18 AM, geegee said:

The @Dragofer script solution is EXCELLENT.  It fixes not just the T-posing side effect of my earlier attempt to fix a potentially game-busting problem but it fixes the original problem and raises the fps everywhere in the FM. It depends on individual CPUs by how much fps is improved.  In some cases it raises fps enormously as in unplayable->playable.  In most cases it raises fps by a smaller but very real margin.

Actually, I'm still not certain the script does anything with T-pose issue.
I spent a week trying to understand and replicate it to not avail.
It is probably some timing-sensitive bug which just just does not happen with script... thank god it does not

The original release has 180 "neverDormant" spawnargs but the map has almost 300 AIs.
I guess that's why the script improves performance even further.
 

[Johnnytheboy76]

Right, I really want to play this mission but when I downloaded it from the link, it is a PK4 file and when I opened it, it opened up in notepad and looked to be a massive code file of some sorts. Before I go on, I can drive computers but I don't know what makes 'em go.

Soooooo, my question is, how do I get this file to open up in TDM so I can play the mission?