Search the Community

The issue with the bounds of visportals "glowing" has been quite apparent in my WIP: If it is helpful in resolving the issue they are only visible when soft shadows are enabled. Using the "Maps" lighting mode also seems to reduce how visible they are. The performance improvements are quite significant so it would obviously be good to keep as many of the optimizations as possible.

Not to be a nag, but I was thinking about the columns problem. If you go to the view source tab in the wiki article: https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Fan_Missions_for_The_Dark_Mod&action=edit The raw table data is accessible directly: |- !align=left|{{TDM-FM|written|Written in Stone}} |Bikerdude, Amadeus, Dragofer |{{Forumlink|https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21265-written-in-stone-beta-210-only-20220128/}} |2022-01-28 |338 |Yes |Yes |CCC 22, Elixir |City Missions |Undead, Horror Themes |- Each pipe character represents one of the columns.

I wrote about it here: https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=5172#c16126 This is broken by my shadows optimization. Basically, this map breaks Doom 3 assumptions by replacing some parts of world geometry in the doorway with caulk. No idea how to fix it in engine (aside from disabling all the optimizations). UPDATE: We had a major performance issue with shadows. Imagine we have a small fully closed house with a light source inside it. The light has huge light radius, which covers a lot of stuff outdoors. Previously, all that stuff did cast shadows, despite everyone agrees it is not necessary. This is no longer the case: the latest dev build won't cast shadows for the entities outdoors. Now imagine that part of the wall of the house is replaced with caulk. The engine still thinks it is a solid wall because it's fully enclosed with opaque surfaces, so it drops shadows of outdoors entities. But outdoor objects might get lit. This map does the same.

Terrific! The beta test thread is up: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22238-beta-testing-the-spider-and-the-finch/

Welcome to the Dark Mod forums MarsManon! Thank you very much for the kind words about SLL, it's always nice to hear We all worked real hard on bringing Grayman's map to life and I'm glad you enjoyed it

I was so enchanted by this FM, I had to sign up to the forums the same day I finished it to come thank the authors Genuinely, truly incredible work! I was so overwhelmed in places that I resorted to just shouting joy at my monitor two, three, maybe four entirely separate times while playing. Exploring, puzzling, finding something new, trying to use it, and finding it does a whole new, separate, wonderful thing! There aren't enough words inside me to describe the feeling. It was breathtaking. I don't have any specific feedback that hasn't come through this thread before Thanks so much for making this, for all the inspiration and ingenuity and effort it took. If I never play another level this good, in any other game, in my life, I'd be fine with that.

For the menu setting, maybe we could re-purpose the "Show Menu Tooltips" setting. Who would want to not see the tooltips? They aren't intrusive! As for examples, two come to mind. Player frobs some junk item: Don't let everyone think an elephant entered the room. Hold down the 'Creep' key while you move objects to avoid making a ruckus. A guard starts searching the player: A guard is searching for you. If you dare blackjack them, get the drop on them from behind. Forget about bashing from a side or upfront, you'll only make things worse. First one has been a thing for a while if I'm not mistaken and should be communicated; thought we had to rely on the TDM Modpack... The blackjack effectiviness is known to cause confusion, especially on Thief players, since Garrett seemingly knows just the right spot to bash no matter the alert level of a guard. And I don't believe adding the Deadly Shadows-like animation to TDM was a proper solution; players should be able to read the situation instead of focusing on the blackjack, which sometimes you can't even see because everything is pitch dark. Of course, the second example should take in mind a previous standard explanation on blackjacking under normal circumstances when you equip the blackjack, for example.

There's a group of players who have meticulously tested and adjusted ghosting rules for The Dark Mod. Please see: Official Ghosting Rules: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148523 Ghost Rules Discussion: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148487 Why alienate an established group of dedicated players?

https://downloads.khinsider.com/game-soundtracks/album/thief-deadly-shadows Lots of game soundtracks there.

No idea. What I meant was just that leaning can expose you (a lot) depending on the lighting, so presumably you won't get "invisible shots" with the new lean. I haven't tried it yet, so I could be wrong, but that's probably the case. On a side note, personally I don't like that as it is that much. Getting so exposed makes leaning so useless in so many situations... I'm always scared of leaning because of that. I think it's one of those realism vs gameplay things where I'd rather favor gameplay. So much about hiding in shadows and sneaking is hyper unrealistic anyway. But favoring the player usually makes a more gratifying gameplay. Like when you're making a 2D game and you make the player hit box smaller than the sprite, to make it more forgiving and less frustrating.

I have been following this thread and I tried Wellingtoncrab's build. I thought about all this time ago and I made up my mind back then. I understand the desire for these changes but at the same time I understand why things are the way they are. The current TDM design is consistent and there isn't much room for improvement if we stick to what's available. Shortcuts won't cut it, a modern solution requires something else: less keys and more visuals, sorry to say. With my comments I am trying to warn that we probably are focusing too much on the goal and too little on the side effects 99% of players we will never hear from might face: A candle unintentionally extinguished is frustrating. Dropping bodies while operating doors is frustrating. Trying to hide a leg in the shadows only to end up shouldering the body is frustrating.

This mission has an amazing architechture true to the orginal thief games. But I feel it needed a bit more optimization. My rtx 3060 struggles even with stencil shadows on low.

OK I think I've got to the bottom of this. I've created this forum thread (with bug report): https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22221-bug-drowning-ai-in-shallow-water/ I can apply a workaround, although it won't be perfect and the bug itself needs fixing in the engine. There are a few other things that need fixing so will put an update together soonish.

If any mappers have encountered weirdness with kill objectives not working with drowning AI, I think I've found out why. I don't think it would be a particularly difficult one to fix either. I've raised this bug report: https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6323 Some context here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21837-fan-mission-the-lieutenant-2-high-expectations-by-frost_salamander-20230424/&do=findComment&comment=487316 I think this is a bug, but just raising here in case some people think otherwise.

I dom't use it, i found it here with the filter set to OpenSource. the TOS and PP isn't excluding for an OpenSource app, if they use ads mean that they also need to pay an server for this online service. OpenSource is not synonymous with free either, perhaps after the beta phase it is no longer free, so perhaps you can take advantage of the fact that it is still free to create a series of textures that can be used or search another one in Futuretools. AI generated textures and assets, by definition, don't have any copyright, so you can use them as you want. https://www.futuretools.io/?pricing-model=free|open-source&tags-n5zn=gaming

starfield running on a R9 290X at first it crashed a lot so i decied to have a look out there to see if it was at all possible and heh a small mod called potato mash (basically just optimized ini files and a dx wrapper) and now it runs. turns out that this game has some rather buggy interactions with dx12 (found out by the guy who develops vkd3d-proton) and turning off the shadows and a few other things lets it run on even this old card. not getting earth shattering fps mind you but its playable i could even push it into medium and still play at 30 somethingsish fps but high was to much. looks quite good still even with a good deal of these effects off.

I really enjoyed the accountant missions, shadows of northdale are really well done too. Can't wait until act 3 comes out, so thanks in advance to Goldwell and all the beta testers.

Hello TDM-ers. I am encountering an issue where textures seem to partially disappear. I tried searching the forums, but, I don't know what to search for. The missing textures are a worldspawn brush acting as a roof with {for now} flat iron texture. There are other worldspawn brushes right below to create an attic ceiling with roof framework board texture. These gaps appeared a few edits ago. I can't "undo" to get back before whatever edit did this. The gaps are only visible during play and are not visible during editing. Closing and reopening DR and TDM do not fix anything. Some of the brushes overlap in areas behind the play area but I have never seen an issue doing that. The attached image has the effect I am now seeing. Ideas on where to start debugging this? Very much appreciated. Clint

Is shadows of northdale act 3 still a wip or is it on hold for now? Either way I have really enjoyed your fan missions, so thanks and can't wait until act three gets done.

Awesome! Post is up! https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22200-beta-testing-the-house-of-delisle/#comment-487365 Thanks!

Complaint From Players The player must pick up candles before extinguishing them, and then the player must remember to drop the candle. The player must drag a body before shouldering it (picking it up), and the player must remember to frob again to stop dragging the body. The player finds this annoying or easy to make mistakes. For players who ghost, some of them have the goal of returning objects back to their original positions. With the current "pick up, use item, and drop" system, the item might not return easily or at all to its original position. For example, a candlestick might bounce off its holder. (See player quotes at the bottom.) Bug Tracker https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6316 Problems to Solve How can the "pick up" step be eliminated so that the player can directly use or interact with the item where it is in the game world? How can so much key pressing and mouse clicking be eliminated when the player wants to directly use an item? How can candles be extinguished and lanterns toggled off/on without first picking them up? How can bodies be shouldered without first dragging them? Solution Design Goals Make TDM easier for new players while also improving it for longtime players. Reduce tedious steps for common frob interactions. Make it intuitive so that menu settings are unnecessary. Do not introduce bugs or break the game. Terms frob -- the frob button action happens instantly. hold frob -- the frob button is held for 200ms before the action happens. (This can be changed via cvar: 200ms by default.) Proposed Solution Note: Some issues have been struckthrough to show changes since the patch has been updated. Change how frobbing works for bodies, candles, and lanterns. For bodies: Frob to shoulder (pick up) a body. Second frob to drop shouldered body, while allowing frob on doors, switches, etc. Hold frob (key down) to start drag, continue to hold frob (key down) to drag body, and then release frob (key up) to stop dragging body. Also, a body can be dragged immediately by holding frob and moving the mouse. For candles/lanterns: Frob to extinguish candles and toggle off/on lanterns. Hold frob to pick it up, and then frob again to drop. Frob to pick it up, and then frob again to drop. Hold frob to extinguish candles and toggle off/on lanterns. For food: Frob to pick it up, and then frob again to drop. Hold frob to eat food. For other items: No change. New cvar "tdm_frobhold_delay", default:"200" The frob hold delay (in ms) before drag or extinguish. Set to 0 for TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior. Solution Benefits Bodies: New players will have less to learn to get started moving knocked out guards. With TDM v2.11 and earlier, some players have played several missions before realizing that they could shoulder a body instead of dragging it long distances. Frob to shoulder body matches Thief, so longtime Thief players will find it familiar. Second frob drops a shouldered body. Players still have the ability to both shoulder and drag bodies. Compatible with the new auto-search bodies feature. Dragging feels more natural -- just grab, hold, and drop with a single button press. There is no longer the need to press the button twice. Also, it's no longer possible to walk away from a body while unintentionally dragging it. Set "tdm_frobhold_delay" cvar to delay of 0 to restore TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior. Candles: New players will have less to learn to get started extinguishing candles. With TDM v2.11 and earlier, some players didn't know they could extinguish candles by picking them up and using them. Instead, they resorted to throwing them to extinguish them or hiding them. Hold frob to extinguish a candle feels like "pinching" it out. Once a candle is picked up, players still have the ability to manipulate and use them the same way they are used to in TDM v2.11 and earlier. For players who ghost and have the goal of putting objects back to their original positions, they'll have an easier time and not have to deal with candles popping off their holders when trying to place them back carefully. Set "tdm_frobhold_delay" cvar to delay of 0 to restore TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior. Solution Issues Bodies: Frob does not drop a shouldered body, so that might be unexpected for new players. This is also different than Thief where a second frob will drop a body. "Use Inv. Item" or "Drop Inv. Item" drops the body. This is the same as TDM v2.11 and earlier. This is the price to pay for being able to frob (open/close) doors while shouldering a body. Patch was updated to drop body on second frob, while allowing frob on doors, switches, etc. Candles: Picking up a candle or lantern requires a slight delay, because the player must hold the frob button. The player might unintentionally extinguish a candle while moving it if they hold down frob. The player will need to learn that holding frob will extinguish the candle. The player can change the delay period via the "tdm_frobhold_delay" cvar. Also, when the cvar is set to a delay of 0, the behavior matches TDM v2.11 and earlier, meaning the player would have to first "Frob/Interact" to pick up the candle and then press "Use Inv. Item" to extinguish it. Some players might unintentionally extinguish a candle when they are trying to move it or pick it up. They need to make sure to hold frob to initiate moving the candle. When a candle is unlit, it will highlight but do nothing on frob. That might confuse players. However, the player will likely learn after extinguishing several candles that an unlit candle still highlights. It makes sense that an already-extinguished candle cannot be extinguished on frob. The official "Training Mission" might need to have its instructions updated to correctly guide the player through candle manipulation training. Updating the training mission to include the hold frob to extinguish would probably be helpful. Similar Solutions In Fallout 4, frob uses an item and long-press frob picks it up. Goldwell's mission, "Accountant 2: New In Town", has candles that extinguish on frob without the need of picking them up first. Snatcher's TDM Modpack includes a "Blow / Ignite" item that allows the player to blow out candles Wesp5's Unofficial Patch provides a way to directly extinguish movable candles by frobbing. Demonstration Videos Note: The last two videos don't quite demonstrate the latest patch anymore. But the gist is the same. This feature proposal is best experienced in game, but some demonstration videos are better than nothing. The following videos show either a clear improvement or that the player is not slowed down with the change in controls. For example, "long-press" sounds long, but it really isn't. Video: Body Shouldering and Dragging The purpose of this video is to show that frob to shoulder a body is fast and long-press frob to drag a body is fast enough and accurate. Video: Long-Press Frob to Pick Up Candle The purpose of this video is to show how the long-press frob to pick up a candle isn't really much slower than regular frob. Video: Frob to Extinguish The purpose of this video -- if a bit contrived -- is to show the efficiency and precision of this proposed feature. The task in the video was for the player to as quickly and accurately as possible extinguish candles and put them back in their original positions. On the left, TDM v2.11 is shown. The player has to highlight each candle, press "Frob/Interact" to pick up, press "Use Inv. Item" to extinguish, make sure the candle is back in place, and finally press "Frob/Interact" to drop the candle. The result shows mistakes and candles getting misplaced. On the right, the proposed feature is shown. The player frobs to extinguish the candles. The result shows no mistakes and candles are kept in their original positions. Special Thanks @Wellingtoncrab was instrumental in improving this feature during its early stages. We had many discussions covering varying scenarios, pros, and cons, and how it would affect the gameplay and player experience. Originally, I had a completely different solution that added a special "use modifier" keybinding. He suggested the frob to use and long-press frob to pick up mechanics. I coded it up, gave it a try, and found it to be too good. Without his feedback and patience, this feature wouldn't be as good as it is. Thank you, @Wellingtoncrab! And, of note, @Wellingtoncrab hasn't been able to try it in game yet, because I'm using Linux and can't compile a Windows build for him. So, if this feature isn't good, that's my fault. Code Patch I'll post the code patch in another post below this one so that folks who compile TDM themselves can give this proposal a try in game. And, if you do, I look forward to your feedback! Player Complaints TTLG (2023-01-10) Player 1: TDM Forums (2021-03-13) Player 2: Player 3: TDM Forums (2023-06-17) Player 4: TDM Discord (2021-05-18) Player 5: TDM Discord (2023-02-14) Player 6: Player 7: Player 8:

Oh gosh: That looks incredible when seeing the full image! The FPS it must cost though... so sad it's not practical Technically speaking though, it's an easy way to achieve DOF as well as antialiasing in one go: Just jitter the camera angle which will cause greater differences between pixels (thus blur) the further something is. Meanwhile interpreting light sources at slightly offset positions per sample offers an alternative way to get distance based soft shadows, some performance would be recovered by no longer needing multiple samples per light. There's quite a few things multiple renders per frame can achieve! Is it possible to at least reuse some render data between samples for some kind of performance optimization? Actually I wonder: What if we use past frames so that we don't have to render extra ones in between? This might be what temporal antialiasing does, except we could use it for even more things! I'm actually intrigued in an experiment to test this For example: Let's say we set it to 16 frames. This means the past 16 frames that have been rendered are blended together and you see a mix of their total on the screen. At the same time each frame interprets the camera and lights at an ever so slightly different position / angle using a seed, causing the end result to be a soft average. One problem I see is with fast camera movements: If you look around or run too fast it will likely cause some form of motion blur... then again this might be a feature not a bug, we don't have any motion-blur anyway and it's not like it would be wrong to even if ghosting is the bad sort. Another problem is you could see flickering as lights are interpreted at randomized positions... the way I'm imagining this may cause everything to appear as if it's vibrating which is no good.

TDM has such an implementation, called something like camera jittering. It was used to create high-quality screenshots. It jitters both camera and light positions, which results in perfect antialiasing and soft shadows. But it is very slow, and the resulting images are basically a lie. As far as I remember, it stopped working at some moment because the engine is constantly being modified. Anyway, this idea is useless to combat complaint about MSAA being slow. And simply blurring the whole image would result in trash of course.

The *DOOM3* shaders are ARB2 ('cause of old GeForce support) carmack plan + arb2 - OpenGL / OpenGL: Advanced Coding - Khronos Forums

Seems to confirm: https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=5718 does it happen in the latest dev build: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/20824-public-access-to-development-versions/