[2.11] New Blackjack System (available via dev build)

[Obsttorte]

I am not a fan of having several rulesets. Especially new players would have no idea what the difference is and mission authors would have to take both sets into consideration.

[OrbWeaver]

There definitely shouldn't be different rulesets (for the aforementioned reasons), but UI helpers such as auto-raising the blackjack should probably be configurable since not all players would want them.

[Obsttorte]

That was the plan to begin with.

[Obsttorte]

Update (source commit #10105):

• The mage bug as reported by @Frost_Salamanderis fixed
• The code now takes the body orientation instead of the head orientation as fundament for the knockout test to prevent random anim based headturns from failing a knockout attempt. (As suggested by @Dragofer)

For those without svn access I have update the files on the ftp server.

[datiswous]

Why is this in Art Assets ?

[Dragofer]

It started as a request for an arm raising animation. Meanwhile it's become a custom test build.

@Obsttorte do you want it to be moved to the Dark Mod or Editor Guild subforum?

[Obsttorte]

4 hours ago, Dragofer said:

It started as a request for an arm raising animation. Meanwhile it's become a custom test build.

@Obsttorte do you want it to be moved to the Dark Mod or Editor Guild subforum?

The Dark Mod subforum is probably more fitting, as it isn't related to TDM editing. Thanks.

[datiswous]

On 8/13/2022 at 6:18 PM, Obsttorte said:

In addition you have to use this custom manifest url: http://ftp.thedarkmod.com/custom_builds/blackjack/manifest.iniz

Why is the manifest not added when you install the dev build?

[Obsttorte]

18 hours ago, datiswous said:

Why is the manifest not added when you install the dev build?

Because it is an alternative branch so to speak. That's why it is called custom manifest!

[datiswous]

Ok, but the blackjack system in the dev version does change the blackjacking I think. I now get like 70% more misses while playing. I often don't knock them out anymore because it became so hard to get a propper hit. Maybe it's because of the missing manifest file?

Edit: Well, actually I should just have included the manifest file off course, instead of continue play without.

Edited September 30, 2022 by datiswous

[datiswous]

Where do I place the manifest.iniz file? In the TDM root folder there already is a manifest.iniz . Am I supposed to override that?

Edit: I see now that I have to point to the url in the installer. How am I suposed to know that? I didn't read all the posts in the topic, maybe I should have. Could you put that info in the first post?

Edited October 3, 2022 by datiswous

[stgatilov]

I hope @Obsttorte would correct me.|
But I think these changes are already in the latest dev build.

[Obsttorte]

They are. But as not everyone has access to it, I create the custom build as proposed by Dragofer iirc.

The behaviour is toggled via the weapon def (basically commenting the current command and uncommenting the previous one), so there is no harm imho.

[Wellingtoncrab]

I have been playing the latest dev build and it includes the animation prompt so I assumed it was the new system - this was in the change notes for the dev build that it included blackjack changes - but apparently it doesn’t include the underlying scripting changes unless you point the installer at a different URL? Only way to know that is to reread this thread.

The animation prompt itself has been working very well for me though even without it.

[Obsttorte]

@WellingtoncrabThe blackjack behaviour isn't controlled by scripts, but by code. The binaries you download when using the custom manifest contain those code changes. So you have played with the changes, even though you may haven't noticed a difference, which wasn't the aim anyway. The point is to get rid of flaws and unreliabilities the current setup suffers from.

Nice to see that you are fine with the animation prompt, though.

[Wellingtoncrab]

"Scripts"/"code"/"whatever" - I don't need a rehash on the "point" of the change I am just trying to follow along with these statements to figure out if I am playing with all  the changes in effect or not so I know if I am testing the right thing:

On 8/13/2022 at 9:18 AM, Obsttorte said:

In addition you have to use this custom manifest url: http://ftp.thedarkmod.com/custom_builds/blackjack/manifest.iniz

5 hours ago, Obsttorte said:

They are. But as not everyone has access to it

If you install the dev build it sounds like you are not playing with all the new blackjack behavior unless you use the custom manifest url correct?

I am asking because I have noticed a difference though I am not sure if it's primarily just being assisted by the animation, because I have not downloaded a custom manifest. 

[wesp5]

So you need the dev build and this manifest or has it been included in the meantime?

[Daft Mugi]

This is starting to sound like a "Who's on first" of dev builds.

Please correct me if I'm wrong @Obsttorte. There are two dev build types and both are ok at the moment.

1. The current official dev build is dev16625-10132 as of 17 hours ago. The new blackjack system is fully included. There are no external dependencies. (@Obsttorte's statement that it is just code, not scripts, helps clarify this.)
2. The custom manifest allows for a custom dev build by @Obsttorte that is a different code revision than the official dev build.

From SVN, it looks like @Obsttorte's last update for the blackjack system was 10105. So, as long as you are using dev16617-10107 or dev16625-10132, you have the latest iteration of the blackjack system. The custom dev build from the custom manifest should also be at least 10105, according to a comment above.

On 9/2/2022 at 12:03 PM, Obsttorte said:

Update (source commit #10105):

[...]

For those without svn access I have update the files on the ftp server.

That comment and custom dev build was posted September 2nd. The official dev build that includes the same changes was posted September 7th.

I'm using the latest (SVN / official / custom) dev build, so is that the latest version of the blackjack system? Yes.

Note: In the future, if @Obsttorte makes a change, those changes can be made available for download sooner through that custom manifest than the official dev build.

I hope I got that right and it helps with understanding all of this.

Cheers

Edited October 9, 2022 by Daft Mugi

[Wellingtoncrab]

@Daft Mugiwhile I don't understand most of that, I do think I understand you are saying the dev build has the blackjack code as well as the animation in it - thank you!

[Daft Mugi]

 Welp, I couldn't stop digging and learning more about this.

On 8/13/2022 at 11:18 AM, Obsttorte said:

To test this out you can run the tdm_installer, select custom version and then select the dev16599-10071 dev build that can be found under dev/2.11.

In addition you have to use this custom manifest url: http://ftp.thedarkmod.com/custom_builds/blackjack/manifest.iniz

The ko indication can be toggled via the cvar tdm_blackjack_indicate.

The first post in this thread was accurate at the time of writing, but it could currently cause confusion.

What those directions imply is that the custom build and its assets are based on dev16599-10071 (16599 assets, 10071 source code). So, dev16599-10071 will have almost all of the files needed and the custom manifest includes only the very few files that are different, such as the blackjack custom assets (pk4) and custom dev build (exe). @stgatilov explained this earlier in this thread. In other words, the installer will download dev16599-10071 (many, many files) and then download and apply the custom manifest files (just a couple or a few files). @Obsttorte provided screenshots to show how to use the installer earlier in this thread. (The manifest url is now different than the screenshot, though.)

On 8/17/2022 at 7:57 AM, Obsttorte said:

Commit #10079 (source code) and #16607 (assets):

• cvar tdm_blackjack_indicate added (boolean, defaults to 1) to allow enabling/disabling the knockout preview indication
• new spawnarg added to the blackjack, knockout_range

@Obsttorte added the blackjack assets and scripts as revision 16607 (assets), so dev16617-10107 or dev16625-10132, will also work, since the assets are a later revision. (In the dev build name, the first number is the asset revision and the second number is the code revision.)

Checking my copy of dev16617-10107:

tdm_base01.pk4
  2022-09-07 20:23   script/tdm_weapon_blackjack.script
tdm_defs01.pk4
  2022-08-22 22:15   def/tdm_weapon_blackjack.def
tdm_player01.pk4
  2022-08-21 20:24   models/md5/weapons/blackjack_view/ready10.md5anim
  2022-08-21 20:24   models/md5/weapons/blackjack_view/unready10.md5anim

These filenames match zzz_blackjack.pk4, which was posted earlier.

What we need to know from @Obsttorte is:

1. Is the latest set of assets submitted to SVN? If so, what is the asset revision number?
2. Is the latest code submitted to SVN? If so, what is the code revision number?

With the assets revision number and the code revision number, you can look at the official dev build name to see if it has everything included. If the official dev build name has a revision number smaller than what @Obsttorte tells us or something isn't included in SVN yet, then we need to use the custom manifest to fetch the latest blackjack version. Otherwise, the official dev build has everything.

@Wellingtoncrab So, that's a long-winded explanation to say, yes, you probably do. If @Obsttorte says, yes, everything is in SVN as 16607 (assets) and 10105 (code), you can know if you have everything by looking at the dev build name. The name dev16625-10132 is 16625 (assets) and 10132 (code). Both are greater than required, so all is included.

Again, I hope I got that right. Some of this is new to me, and I had fun figuring this out tonight.

Cheers

Edited October 9, 2022 by Daft Mugi

[Obsttorte]

@Daft Mugiexplained it pretty well, and I thought I did so, too in the original build. The custom manifest was for usage with the dev build that was available back when I made the post, but the respective changes were already commited to svn so all subsequent dev builds should contain them.

@WellingtoncrabIf you would have played without the code changes, the preview animation (raising the blackjack) wouldn't have worked either. So if you got that one, you got the code.

No updates to the code have been performed after I have create the latest custom manifest, which was at the same time I have updated the code in svn. The simple reason is that I am collecting feedback, the initial purpose of this thread

 

[Wellingtoncrab]

Well, now that’s it’s settled my experience with the new blackjack system in playing through all of Sir Talbot’s Collateral (where I ignored the optional restriction on knockouts) and in testing my own mission has only been good personally. I have not experienced anything like the increased failure rate @datiswousis describing, but I have been using the prompt animation which kind of signals this to you ahead of time (hard to fail when the game is telling you when you will land). It hasn’t misled me in a swing yet in the course of normal play.

I will play some with this turned off however to get a better sense of the code changes on their own.

Not that you need to change the forum subject again, but testing threads are often prefixed with the version in brackets [2.11] - which was at least handy for finding all the threads by the end of 2.10 testing.

[Obsttorte]

Thanks for looking into it and for the feedback. Good to hear it is working out for you (means less work for me :D).

And changing the thread title isn't really involving a lot of work and in this case, makes sense, so akabadabra...

 

renamibus.

[stgatilov]

I wonder if anyone else feels the hint animation is too strong?
Wouldn't it be enough for a hand to travel 1/3 of the distance?

It is especially bad when status changed quickly, so the thief moves his arm up and down as if he is itching to hit and can barely hold his hand.

[datiswous]

I thought the hint is too low. I was expecting something similar to Thief 3. It is hard to see in dark areas.