[2.11] New Blackjack System (available via dev build)

[Wellingtoncrab]

Yeah I would say I agree with @stgatilov - while I think it does work as is you probably need less movement of the blackjack to make the indicator effective and the shorter the animation that still fulfills the intended purpose the better probably.

Though the visibility issue in dark area makes sense - I haven’t really run into this personally yet so couldn’t say how much of an issue that is.

[Obsttorte]

Three possible approaches come to mind:

1. Make it adjustable. Maybe not a slider, as players shouldn't spend half an hour finetuning the animation. But if there would be two or three options to choose from, it may be a good start. I cannot make the animation raise higher, though, without a new animation.
2. Make it depending on the current player illumination a.k.a. lightgem value. In dark areas rise the blackjack higher, in lit areas lower.
3. A generally lower arm raising, so it is less distracting, but add the same time an acoustical hint that tells you the arm is raised, even if you cannot clearly see it. (As well as an acoustical hint for lowering the blackjack).

Personally I guess I would be in favor of (3) probably, although I am not someone who would use the system at all, so I can life with all approaches. But I am all for the argument of making it as less intrusive as possible and not a big fan of unnecessary costumization, so (1) would be my last resort.

I am open for suggestion, of course.

[stgatilov]

Perhaps add a bit of highlight to raised blackjack?
That would fix the problem with dark areas.

To be honest, I can't understand how raising the blackjack higher is supposed to help in pitch black area where you don't see blackjack.

[datiswous]

3 hours ago, stgatilov said:

Perhaps add a bit of highlight to raised blackjack?
That would fix the problem with dark areas.

Adjustable highlight?

3 hours ago, Obsttorte said:

Make it depending on the current player illumination a.k.a. lightgem value. In dark areas rise the blackjack higher, in lit areas lower.

Instead make the highlight stronger in dark areas?

3 hours ago, stgatilov said:

To be honest, I can't understand how raising the blackjack higher is supposed to help in pitch black area's where you don't see the blackjack.

It probably doesn't, but usually light sources are set higher (in height) and therefore it will be easier to see if the blackjack is raised higher, but it isn't the best solution.

Edited October 24, 2022 by datiswous

[stgatilov]

8 hours ago, datiswous said:

Adjustable highlight?

Instead make the highlight stronger in dark areas?

You don't need to make it adjustable.

Since TDM rendering is gamma-incorrect, the same highlight will automatically be more visible when added to dark color. Adding it to bright color will be hardly visible.

[TheUnbeholden]

For me this would be essential much like the frob helper/bow aimer. I wouldn't want to play it any other way from now on.

[wesp5]

I too like it, but it's still no guaranteed success. If the target is moving it often happens that the blackjack is raised, but by the time you actually hit, the target has moved out of range...

[Melchior]

I've never noticed much. If its working at all - I can't see it because usually IN NEAR TOTAL DARKNESS.

So, useless - and its really been a slog to B/J those Pointy-Helmet guards in 'The Lieutenant II'...been Quick-saving/reloadin' more than any mission in a while.

[datiswous]

On 5/5/2023 at 3:35 PM, ElisabethJean said:

I just stumbled upon this forum post, and as a new player, I love the new Blackjack system!

I think Blackjack is an attraction point for online gambling spam.

[chakkman]

On 5/8/2023 at 1:58 AM, Melchior said:

I've never noticed much. If its working at all - I can't see it because usually IN NEAR TOTAL DARKNESS.

You should check your brightness and gamma settings then. If you can't see the blackjack or other weapons, you definitely set it too dark.

If you didn't know it already, the pre-installed Training Mission has a section where you can set brightness and gamma.

Edited June 10, 2023 by chakkman

[Melchior]

I can see the ARM raised; just not the end of the blackjack itself...its out-of-frame (is it supposed to be?)

[kingsal]

@ObsttorteHey can you confirm that if I have my own version of tdm_weapon_blackjack.def in my pk4 that this system will not work? If so I need go an nuke that file out of all my pk4s. Thanks.

[nbohr1more]

48 minutes ago, kingsal said:

@ObsttorteHey can you confirm that if I have my own version of tdm_weapon_blackjack.def in my pk4 that this system will not work? If so I need go an nuke that file out of all my pk4s. Thanks.

Yes, def files in the pk4 override defs with the same name in core TDM.

You can either nuke them, or update them with new additions from core.

[kingsal]

Okay so the new blackjack def has some additional things in it to support the new system?

If so would it be too much trouble to ask someone to nuke those blackjack files from my missions? 

 

[nbohr1more]

1 minute ago, kingsal said:

Okay so the new blackjack def has some additional things in it to support the new system?

If so would it be too much trouble to ask someone to nuke those blackjack files from my missions? 

 

Will try to get this done tonight

( unless someone gets it done before me )

[kingsal]

32 minutes ago, nbohr1more said:

Will try to get this done tonight

( unless someone gets it done before me )

That would be lovely, thank you.

[Wellingtoncrab]

1 hour ago, nbohr1more said:

Will try to get this done tonight

( unless someone gets it done before me )

While I would get to it eventually I haven’t been able to devote any time to patching Iris, but if you’re already in the neighborhood… would you mind removing my altered blackjack def as well? (Sorry)

[snatcher]

Here is the list of missions that include their own implementation of the blackjack (pre-2.11):

• A House of Locked Secrets (tdm_weapon_blackjack.script)
• By Any Other Name (tdm_weapon_blackjack.script)

EDIT: Some missions were updated after this post:

• Iris (tdm_weapon_blackjack.def)
• Hazard Pay (tdm_weapon_blackjack.def)
• Noble Affairs (tdm_weapon_blackjack.def)
• Shadows of Northdale ACT I (tdm_weapon_blackjack.def)
• Shadows of Northdale ACT II (tdm_weapon_blackjack.def)
• Snowed Inn (tdm_weapon_blackjack.def)
• Volta 1: The Stone (tdm_weapon_blackjack.def)
• Volta 2: Cauldron (tdm_weapon_blackjack.def)

Edited July 7, 2023 by snatcher

[kingsal]

Authors definitely need to elect to have things removed so asking @Moonbo @joebarnin @Goldwell if they want their tdm_weapon_blackjack.def removed. 

If not you guys might want  update your blackjack def and script to include whatever was integrated in 2.11. I dont know off hand what things were changed though. 

Edited July 5, 2023 by kingsal

[nbohr1more]

Volta 1, Volta 2, Hazard Pay, and Iris have been updated.

 

[chakkman]

Out of interest: What did mission makers change about the weapons? As I can see, there are a lot of weapon.def's in the mission folder. I mean, I'm aware that there are custom weapons in some missions, but, I wasn't aware that existing weapons also are altered. And, TBH, personally, I find that a bit problematic, as the player cannot know that a weapon behaves differently in a mission.

[nbohr1more]

1 hour ago, chakkman said:

Out of interest: What did mission makers change about the weapons? As I can see, there are a lot of weapon.def's in the mission folder. I mean, I'm aware that there are custom weapons in some missions, but, I wasn't aware that existing weapons also are altered. And, TBH, personally, I find that a bit problematic, as the player cannot know that a weapon behaves differently in a mission.

The weapon movement, speed, and appearance was altered to look more like Thief 1 and 2. Think of it as a retro mod. Its probably better to include such things in a mod pack than in the missions themselves.

[Moonbo]

For A House of Locked Secrets, I'm fine if someone wants to update the implementation - if I remember correctly the current implementation is changed to allow the switching of inventories between the two worlds so the mission will break if it's simply nuked.

 

[snatcher]

Thanks, @Moonbo. I can update the blackjack script to 2.11 standards and share it here for evaluation.

[Goldwell]

@nbohr1moreif you could please do the same for my missions I would appreciate that