Games to help numb withdrawal symptoms between TDM mission releases

[gokudo]

Might not be the right forum but, As a recovering TDM addict, I thought it'd be useful to call attention to some games that have helped me get past my withdrawal symptoms, at least until the next release!

1.) STALKER Anomaly, Wind of Time, Spatial Anomaly...etc

2.) Enderal

3.) Aliens Colonial Marines TemplarGFX - still too short!

4.) Prey

5.) Ruiner - arcadey, but works

6.) Thief 2 - Shadows of the metal age

7.) Deus Ex - GMDX, Nihilum, etc

 

[datiswous]

Instead of that, you could, in that time period, start learning your own missions and in doing so become more active on the forums, learning from others.

It's also great to understand how things work in the engine, when you play. It might spoil some immersion though..

Or learn to build games with other engines, like Godot for example.

[nbohr1more]

Great list but I would imagine that the original Thief Series games and their Fan Mission collections are typically known quantities for TDM players.

I have heard that TDM is sometimes a "gateway drug" that entices people to try the original Thief games but I have never heard of a long-time TDM player who has "no awareness at all" about the games that inspired the creation of TDM.

If you are gonna suggest anything from the original Thief series games, it might be better to mention fan missions that have resemblance to TDM preferred aesthetics such as missions made by Skacky, Purah, Sperry, DrK, Spoonman, etc

[thebigh]

6 hours ago, gokudo said:

Deus Ex - GMDX

I'm not a fan of GMDX actually. It's clear the author thinks the Rambo playstyle is the Only Correct way to play Deus Ex, and has made all the stealth routes super expensive in terms of lockpicks and hacking tools or has walled them off entirely. It should actually be called Gimme Less Deus Ex, because it diminishes the game. I prefer Deus Ex Revision which, despite some questionable architectural choices here and there, and a bit too much treacle, is at least balanced for combat and stealth oriented players.

[freyk]

I love the games mentioned above.

There is also the old unreal tournament 1 mod, Thievery UT.

I agree with datiswous. I see modding TDM as gaming. Like creating handy game installers, puzzling new menus/interfaces, trying to build a mission and searching/smashing bugs.

Edited March 2, 2023 by freyk

[Xolvix]

2 hours ago, thebigh said:

I'm not a fan of GMDX actually. It's clear the author thinks the Rambo playstyle is the Only Correct way to play Deus Ex, and has made all the stealth routes super expensive in terms of lockpicks and hacking tools or has walled them off entirely. It should actually be called Gimme Less Deus Ex, because it diminishes the game. I prefer Deus Ex Revision which, despite some questionable architectural choices here and there, and a bit too much treacle, is at least balanced for combat and stealth oriented players.

Sorry but I disagree. It's true GMDX significantly reduces the quantity of lockpicks and multitools but that's only because the original game was completely flush with them. It forces you to consider your skill upgrades and whether you really want to use a consumable to open something or can find an alternate means of entry (explosives, codes, key, etc). Just like with the Thief games, limitations on the player can encourage alternate ways of thinking. Stealth is actually more viable in GMDX now if you consider the fact a decently upgraded Pistol skill will now give the mini-crossbow an instant takedown if aimed at the head.

[thebigh]

1 hour ago, Xolvix said:

It's true GMDX significantly reduces the quantity of lockpicks and multitools but that's only because the original game was completely flush with them.

I don't agree with that. Although in the original picking doors and bypassing keypads was cheaper individually, by prioritising stealth you'd normally have to get around several locked doors. So you'd spend maybe six picks total getting through three doors. In GMDX I'd use four picks to get into what used to be a passageway around the guards only to find out it's now a dead-end room with some ammo crates in it.

I felt like GMDX was herding me into combat all the time and I just don't want to play DX that way.

People like to crap on Revision, but for all its faults it does try to be fair to all play styles.

[gokudo]

20 hours ago, datiswous said:

Instead of that, you could, in that time period, start learning your own missions and in doing so become more active on the forums, learning from others.

It's also great to understand how things work in the engine, when you play. It might spoil some immersion though..

Or learn to build games with other engines, like Godot for example.

Good point. For the people who have released missions, do you find you still enjoy playing missions as much after you've release one of your own? I kinda imagined that it would sort of be like working in a whiskey distillery. Once you're surrounded by the stuff, do you still look forward to a shot or a couple of fingers at the end of the week?

[chakkman]

Dishonored would be the first game I'd recommend to someone with TDM withdrawal symptoms.  

[Oktokolo]

As probably no one will dare to suggest it if i don't, i do it:

Cyberpunk 2077 with Realistic Combat Overhaul
(i also use 230+ other mods, but i might be a mod hoarder and you definitely can have a good stealth shooter experience with less than 30 mods)

Obviously, that game isn't pure. You probably can ghost your way through a lot of the missions. But if you actually want to play nonleathal, you better play something else. Where it shines, is the world building and gameplay. You get a shit ton of exploration, a pretty diverse set of side missions some with exceptionally good story writing. And you can play most of it as a stealth game.
While it is immersive, it isn't really a sim though. You can't use the environment in unexpected ways apart from some verticality (and even more verticality with mods).

So yeah, it is more like Deus Ex if it where open world (world opens up after first main quest). But stealth was meant to be a viable option in the base game and with mods it actually is.

P.S.: Also the two Styx games - they actually are hardcore stealth. And Arx Fatalis (ugly but aged better than thief).

[datiswous]

On 3/2/2023 at 3:09 PM, gokudo said:

4.) Prey

Which version? The 2006 version comes closer graphically (similar engine) I think, but qua gameplay the 2017 version is probably closer.

[ChronA]

Fun for me that you should mention Enderal, as that is next on my rotation of things to play. I started it a few years ago with some mods and self imposed rules that satisfied my hunger for sneaky, tricksy, fantasy roleplaying really well. But then I hit a difficulty spike (at the part where you take an undead infested subway to an island) and lost my taste for it.

Currently I'm dipping my toes back into Skyrim first, with a bunch of difficulty/survival mods and house rules. I'd like to finish the main quest line in that, which I was only 1 or 2 quests from completing on my main save when I last set it down. Then I want to play the Forgotten City mod with that character, which I tried once before when my guy was like level 10-20 and couldn't do a lot of stuff. But right now I'm actually having more fun running around with a few new characters doing random minor quests and survival challenges with very limited resources.

And just last week I finished an epic 18 month first full playthrough of The Witcher 3 and DLCs, with extensively tweaked W3EE and Lazarus mods installed. It was very hard, but damn I felt like I earned that vineyard at the end. (Plus it was something that I started with my dad during the pandemic, and in the end we completed all the 3 main questlines together.)

This is what I love about PC gaming. Epic fantasy, open world, story driven, immersive survival sim is a genre that I don't think has ever existed in a single commercial product, but with a small amount of elbow grease on my part there it is for me to play.

[wesp5]

Of course I need to suggest Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines. Stealth is possible in a lot of missions and if you really want to take it easy, you can make yourself invisible as a Malkavian or a Nosferatu too!

[gokudo]

2 hours ago, wesp5 said:

Of course I need to suggest Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines. Stealth is possible in a lot of missions and if you really want to take it easy, you can make yourself invisible as a Malkavian or a Nosferatu too!

Glad someone brought it up. Excellent game back in the day. I tried to get into the VTM Final Nights mod but the engine had not aged well!

[chakkman]

On 3/7/2023 at 4:14 AM, Oktokolo said:

P.S.: Also the two Styx games - they actually are hardcore stealth. And Arx Fatalis (ugly but aged better than thief).

I wouldn't call them "hardcore stealth", they're rather fast stealth, but, yeah, great games I only can recommend if you didn't play them yet. Arx Fatalis is great too, but, it has some serious balancing problems. Some quests and parts of the games are very easy, while others are way too hard. And, the magic where you have to hand draw the runes is also pretty questionable. In hectic situations, you just aren't able to draw the runes. It's already difficult when there's no hectic. Yes, you have 3 auto spells, but, that's not nearly enough.

From Arkane Studios, I also can recommend Dark Messiah of Might & Magic. It's really good.

Edited March 8, 2023 by chakkman

[datiswous]

If you like Arx Fatalis you could try Arx - End Of Sun beta (based on Doom3 engine, but you don't need a copy).

https://www.moddb.com/mods/arx-end-of-sun

(this is mostly a reminder for myself to still try it out sometime)

[Oktokolo]

On 3/10/2023 at 11:08 AM, datiswous said:

https://www.moddb.com/mods/arx-end-of-sun

I tried it some years ago and it was already abandoned back then. It never got finished, and probably never will.

Better try Monomyth after release (it looks like still being worked on, so there is hope).

[Xolvix]

On 3/8/2023 at 6:57 PM, wesp5 said:

Of course I need to suggest Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines. Stealth is possible in a lot of missions and if you really want to take it easy, you can make yourself invisible as a Malkavian or a Nosferatu too!

I gotta agree with this recommendation as well. It isn't an immersive sim but it does provide many different methods for achieving objectives, and to me at least it kinda feels a lot like Deus Ex in terms of gameplay. It certain filled that hole when Invisible War didn't.

Additionally anyone who wants to play Bloodlines NEEDS to also install the unofficial patch, since it fixes a lot of stuff and makes things work better on modern systems. Whoever made that patch is a legend!

...

yes... I know.

EDIT: Dear God I hope the sequel doesn't suck.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Xolvix

[chakkman]

Maybe I should give Vambire Masquerader Bloodlines another go. I bought it years ago, and tried it, and, it wasn't my cup of tea at all at that time.

[SeriousToni]

On 3/2/2023 at 10:12 PM, freyk said:

 

There is also the old unreal tournament 1 mod, Thievery UT..

Isn't this multiplayer only? I remember playing it with a friend online many years ago. Is the community there and the servers still active?

[freyk]

Yes, it is multiplayer, but you can also play it as singleplayer with bots. And you dont need a server to play. There is a forum but no active posts.

I havent played it in months, but i enjoyed it.

[SeriousToni]

1 hour ago, freyk said:

Yes, it is multiplayer, but you can also play it as singleplayer with bots. And you dont need a server to play. There is a forum but no active posts.

I havent played it in months, but i enjoyed it.

Okay I didn't know its actually possible in single player. I will give them bots a try. Hopefully they act like thieves and guards and not unreal tournament bots haha

[The Black Arrow]

I would recommend a game I just played, "The Bard's Tale".

It's fantastic, not something I expected, sure it does have some "flaws" and perhaps a feeling of loneliness and nostalgia, but it's still great, worth playing it. I played it during Winter, but I bet during Summer it's also just as good.

Great music, great voiceacting (Tony Jay is the narrator, may he rest with sexy mature women), nice environment, good graphics even for its time, not too bad of a simplistic Action RPG gameplay...Just go fucking play it already, you taffers!

[gokudo]

Oh man, I screwed this one up bad...Just found what should have been number 1.

https://www.thiefguild.com/fanmissions/?advanced_search=&series=&collection=&table=&page=&works=&work_lists=&sort_by=best&search=&games=1&games=2&released_from=all&released_to=all&genre=all

I'm sticking to the Thief 1 and 2 missions as they're compatible with the HD pack. Don't really like the deadly shadows engine. Well, my agony is at an end!  

[datiswous]

I just found this thread on ttlg listing Immersive Sims:

https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151176