Newbie DarkRadiant Questions

[Dragofer]

Well, I have been working on my map since I was last here, despite me being away from home (I will miss the contest deadline by at least a month). I would appreciate an answer to either or both of these questions:

 

I saw the screenshot for Illusionist's Tower with plenty of fog in it. What caught my attention was that on the walls and on the floor I was able to see texture, not just the void blackness that I saw on my usual pc when I tried to have white fog (light value 100) inside a subterranean environment and went up close to a wall. Could I be doing something wrong? I used standard TDM textures for that. I remember that the fog encased the walls. Unfortunately I can't supply screenshots at this moment.

 

A further area of interest for me would be patches: do the same rules apply to func_staticced patches and models, or would - provided they are aligned - overly ambitious patches just give missing slivers and starriness all over again? I was thinking of twisting patches at angles I would never dare with a brush. The wiki on this made patches sound to me like an alternative for modelling.

[Serpentine]

A further area of interest for me would be patches: do the same rules apply to func_staticced patches and models, or would - provided they are aligned - overly ambitious patches just give missing slivers and starriness all over again? I was thinking of twisting patches at angles I would never dare with a brush. The wiki on this made patches sound to me like an alternative for modelling.

 

You can do quite a bit with patches that wouldn't be possible without doing extremely complex brushwork. Under most situations patches will not run into problems in which you either get gaps or stars being rendered however they are not completely excluded from it completely either. Cylindrical shapes if bent and buckled will start to leak at the seams allowing light through as well as breaking their shading. The same with flat patches, but it takes a lot more effort

 

Getting familiar with patch manipulation will come in extremely valuable in a lot of places. When I started out I was all about brushes, but now that I am more confident with patches I am able to make much 'nicer' environments without looking out of place. The patch inspector window is extremely useful for playing with the tessellation of a patch so that it doesn't look 'too' smooth and out of place. But it does take a good few days to get comfy with complex patchwork and I'm still finding surprising uses for them. On the performance side they are very often more efficient than brushes too.

 

A replacement for modeling, not really. But a fundamental for making rich scenes... I'd say so.

[Fidcal]

Yes, I wouldn't use patches to avoid bad rendering. Use patches for curved shapes and flat surface decals such as stains and grime. It's a big subject. Try some of the examples on the wiki @ http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Patches

 

I think some of the fog light textures don't work very well. The one I used in Heart was tdm_fogs/cloud_fog and I gave it shaderParm3 1200 so it is completely opaque at a distance of 1200 units. You don't want it very bright. I gave it _color 0.12 0.12 0.11

[Baddcog]

What's the command to find loot through console?

 

--edit

 

Having a hell of a time getting my last objective to work.

 

It's a 'get back to start' obj

 

I made a brush that fills the room (this is also where player starts) and made it an entity:

info_tdm_objective_location

 

named it exit_room

 

it's a mandatory goal, visible.

 

these are my enabling objectives:

 

2 AND (3 OR 4 OR 5) AND (6 OR 7)

 

They all complete. 2 is all levels. 3,4,5 are loot goals: one for each level. 6 and 7 is a 'gem total', 6 for easy and hard, 7 is for expert.

 

entity is idPlayer

 

locations is exit_room

But it never checks off.

 

Do I need to check player responsible? Or have a completion target?

[stumpy]

i got

 

difficulty - all levels : true

initial state : incomplete

flags : mandatory, visible

 

type

1. Let the target entity player1 be at location entity <exit_name>

 

type : Item is in location

 

(this condition should not be used 'Item is in Info_location' else it wont tick off, this condition is used for dropping item in a location.)

 

entity

name of single entity : player1

 

location

name of single entity : <exit name>

Edited August 8, 2010 by stumpy

[Nielsen74]

@Baddcog

You welcomme to pick in too Too Late to se how I dit it in that

[aidakeeley]

tdm_show_loot

[Fidcal]

Most likely cause is you set the component to be 'item is to be in info location' whereas it should be 'item is to be in location' Very confusing that.

[Baddcog]

I did indeed have the info_location thing.

 

But even after changing and compiling it still doesn't work.

 

So I tried teleporting in a trigger brush when player is at oppostie side of the map, but that teleports the player for some odd reason.

[Fidcal]

Ah - replace player1 with idPlayer

 

You are making hard work for yourself Next FM you really should begin with startmap. It's easier than re-inventing the wheel. Or at least insert the objectives/ammo/shop prefab thing. Can't remember the exact name but its under misc. Basically when you ask a question I just go away and look in start map then come back and tell you and pretend I'm clever! haha

[AluminumHaste]

Ah - replace player1 with idPlayer

 

You are making hard work for yourself Next FM you really should begin with startmap. It's easier than re-inventing the wheel. Or at least insert the objectives/ammo/shop prefab thing. Can't remember the exact name but its under misc. Basically when you ask a question I just go away and look in start map then come back and tell you and pretend I'm clever! haha

 

lol don't worry we still love you Fids

[Baddcog]

No, I did start with idPlayer. Stumpy said player 1 and I tried it but it didn't work so I went back to idPlayer.

 

I did look at the start map, and that's where I real ized I needed to use SDK spawntype, but that still didn't make it work. Everything else was the same EXCEPT the name of the final area (mine was exit_room) but I changed it to EscZone because the start map and Nielson's map both had that.

 

Didn't help.

 

-------------------

I also did copy the skybox and shop from the startmap.

 

-------

The objectives really wouldn't have mattered though because they are so different. Not really hard to do at all, I just can't get the final one to trigger.

It may be my syntax in the required goals but I am sure it's right

 

1 AND (2 OR 3 OR 4) AND (6 OR 7)

 

all levels HAVE to get goal one, and they have to get one of 2,3,4 (loot goal for each level) and 6,7 are loot goals for gems (you have to get one of them).

 

------------

But this should be so easy and I've been through it so many times that I can do it without opening DR at this point.

 

============

regarding earlier problem with scroll, I was using a moveable scroll, it should have worked. But I was using it in the location I had the rotated/messed up cabinet. I had deleted all that stuff, but had clip turned off. So there were player/frob clips that were blocking me from my newly placed scroll.

I figured it out when I placed a potion and couldn't frob it, trying to get real close I kept bumping into someting..lol, when did that clip get there?

[Baddcog]

Anyone care to take a look at my map for the final objectives? (I think I'm going to make a mslal test area).

 

I've redone the final trig area again and still not working. This is basically it and this is ready for Beta.

 

I followed the tut on objectives, I've double checked everything 10 times, redone everything4 times, tried a new system, went back to original system, and double checked against Nielsons map and the start map. I really don't see why that final goal won't trigger.

 

(I do have one bonus goal, and a few goals that are only for triggers, but they are not mandatory and are not included in the args for the final objective.)

 

---------------

OK, I made a test map which is just a hallway with every objective in order. It wasn't working, so I placed my start on the other side of the finish area.

 

If I DON'T walk through the info_location for the end the goal completes (mission complete).

 

But I want the player to start and finish in same spot, so how does this work? it appears to work in Too_late (I'll have to double check that...)

 

-------------

 

WOW, after messing with this forever, redoing everything so many times, makinga test mapo to double check....

Now it just works . I think DR is trying to kill me, or make me lose my sanity.

[Fidcal]

Glad to hear it's working. This happens to me a lot. Something doesn't work. Take it apart bit by bit to find out what's wrong. Try different changes. Finally finish back where I started. Now it works!

[Dragofer]

Could there be a way to make an elevator only work when its door is fully closed, and when the elevator is moving to make (the button for) the door unusable? I considered various possibilities, but I think I'm looking for a special spawnarg, possibly one not listed in the "Add Properties" list.

 

 

Speaking of elevators; could I make it so that it follows several "checkpoints" that are not aligned with each other before it comes to the stop point? I presume that it would be possible to just have several unbuttoned stop points as checkpoints, but with my current mapping in Beethoven-style (5 year old integrated laptop graphics show everything save the HUD in black) I'm unable to check.

 

 

The following is merely a reflection:

In an emergency I may be able to have it follow a spline, but for some reason I can't adapt the D3World spline tutorial - even when imported as a prefab and the .script file being altered accordingly. I suppose it is just a quirk.

/reflection

 

 

Is there somewhere a list with possible void() functions for scripting that I must put into .script files, or can I just make do with those atdm entities (if all I need is custom death, conversations, teleporting, black-outs, starting AI on their paths and the likes)?

 

 

Thanks for the replies, which were as always hastily delivered. It does wonders for self-esteem

Edited August 11, 2010 by Dragofer

[Fidcal]

Some things that may be of help:

 

The standard elevator entity travels in a straight line from the current floor where it is triggered to the target floor. Probably the only way to get that to go round a bend is as you say, an unbuttoned pseudo floor but with some clever triggering to send it there first and auto trigger it to continue to where you really want.

 

Dram did a script long ago which might be of interest. mmm... seem to be two articles. Note this is nothing to do with the current standard elevator entities. Also note it is not uptodate. I see a func darkmod button for instance - presume just use an ordinary button.

 

http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Platform_That_Moves_When_Button_Is_Pressed

http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Elevators%2C_multi-floor#Three_stage_elevator_using_a_script

 

Doom script events (functions) are listed at http://www.modwiki.net/wiki/Script_events_(Doom_3)

Dark Mod script events are in the zip archive tdm_base01.pk4

 

The atdm:target_set_frobable can give you control to enable/disable frobbing of any entity. The atdm:target_set_frobable is triggered by any targetting entity. It should be applied to a clip brush surrounding the entities. Note that there is a margin of error. To prevent any other entity being affected that is nearby give it the spawnarg immune_to_target_setfrobable 1. You can use bind <entityname> to bind this to a moving entity such as if any elevator buttons are on the elevator.

 

So you might have a atdm:target_set_frobable clip brush around the elevator controls to disable them while the door is closed. You might do that by adding to the door trigger_on_close 1 and target the atdm:target_set_frobable. In that case you would probably want to add to the atdm:target_set_frobable the spawnarg start_frobable 1 or 0 depending which way you do it.

 

Another atdm:target_set_frobable clip brush around the door (probably just around the origin will do but make sure it is still around the origin in both open and close position. to disable frobbing while the elevator is moving. That might be triggered from the elevator button(s)

 

You can see it is complex and needs some thinking out. There may be problems I have not foreseen. You might need delay relays in between for instance using trigger_multi and delay settings.

[Nielsen74]

Jumping in on the elevator-door-opening-closeing supject!

 

I´v made a test map where I´v tryde to set this up, but for the life of me I can´t get it to work

 

So her´s the setup that I´d like to happen

 

Player/AI press the call button next to unfrobable elevator doors (doors keeping people from falling in the elevator shaft when the elevator is not there)!

On the floor where the elevator currently is this happens;

1. Buttons become unfrobable

2. Elevator doors (and doors keeping people from falling in the elevator shaft on this floor) closes,

3. Elevator starts travling to the floor it´s callede to!

When it arrives to the floor where the player/AI is the elevator stops and the door´s open, buttons become frobable!

 

In the Elevator;

The player/AI in the elevator press the button of what floor they want to go to.

1. Buttons become unfrobable

2. Elevator door´s close

3. Elevator starts travling!

 

 

With this setup the Player/AI can´t change the floor they wanner go to as long as the elevator is still travling! that´s ok by me, but I can see situations where the player would want to do so!

 

Any help?

 

Test map file attachede, just rename to .map

Ele2.txt

Edited August 12, 2010 by Nielsen74

[Fidcal]

Only had time for a quick look but the test map is not working at all.

[Nielsen74]

the problem is that the atdm:target_set_frobable over the buttons don´t react to start_frobable 1 so at the moment the buttons start out unfrobable and the Elevator buttons are linkde to the doors to close them but that don´t seem to work, doors don´t open or close (you can hear them being aktivatede but very littel happens)

 

right now the door oppening don´t work as that I wand´t to setup with s&r

Edited August 13, 2010 by Nielsen74

[Fidcal]

Sorry - my post was about 6:30am and I missed the bit in your post where you said 'this is what you want to happen' I thought you were saying this is what you've got so far but you want the player to be able to change floors half way.

 

OK, I'll take another look but it may take some time and some magic pixie dust.

[Dragofer]

I was thinking that it could be possible to, when the elevator is meant to go up and the up button is pressed:

 

Teleport out the frobbable up button and the door button.

Instantly replace then with non-frobbable up and door buttons (to preserve the push animation, the non-frobbable up button could be targeted by the first up button).

After the time it takes for the elevator to move to the other position, the frobbable up and door buttons are teleported back in and the non-frobbables are teleported out.

 

The same would go for the down button when the elevator is meant to go down. To make it easier to program, one could by a method similar to the above make only one of the up and down buttons frobbable depending on position.

 

For elegance, the non-frobbables could be made into highlighting non-functional buttons instead.

 

As you can see, this approach is not really for the skyscraper-type of elevator or one that changes path midway. I'm thinking of an elevator that travels with its own door attached without stopping. Having more than 2 stages would require a bit more thought.

 

Speaking of stages, I think the pseudo-floor concept would work if patches can be used as triggers. If not - I can't check - I think a one-way path using brushes would also be feasable. (The buttons flying off in all directions as the result of an explosion at the endstop )

Edited August 13, 2010 by Dragofer

[Fidcal]

I've had one session with this and found something interesting. It's only part of the problem but it's a start.

 

The elevator buttons are triggering their targets both when pressed and when they flip back, ie, they are double triggering. This probably does not matter for an elevator but secondary targets are getting triggered twice. It's a bit like a rapid open and auto-close door with target on open and close! So the doors were triggered to close but immediately triggered again to open so no movement at all. To solve this part add to each elevator button:

 

trigger_on_close 0

 

Also make sure you have start_frobable 1 on the atdm:target_set_frobable. It does work OK but before it was triggering the buttons unfrobbable and immediately double triggered to set them frobable again!

 

I am still doubtful about the logic of triggering all the outer doors but that's for another time.

[Nielsen74]

I´m looking in to S&R to toggel the door´s completely and to toggel the atdm:target_set_frobable when the elevator arrives to the floor it´s travling to, but this allso has it´s limits ATM for me

[Fidcal]

Yes, I think that is the way. This is off the top of my head....

 

 

• Select elevator
  
• Create a new custom stim (top right tab on stim dialog) and rename it say ElevatorStim
  
• In the stim tab (1st tab) you can now select your new stim.
  
• On the right click radius and give it say 100 for now.
  
• Set the time interval to 1000 for now
  

 

• 
   
  
• Draw a small nodraw brush around the elevator origin, say 32 x 32
  
• Make it func_static
  
• Give it a ElevatorStim response (tab 2)
  
• Select it in the list and right click effects panel on right to create default activate response
  
• Rename that response (RMB) to Trigger and put in the door on floor 1 wherever the elevator starts.
  
• Add another default effect to that same list and make it Deactivate Response naming this brush entity and ElevatorStim. (this stops it from keep triggering the door over and over while it is at one floor.)
  
• You might want a delay trigger relay between.
  
• Clone the brush and move it to where the elevator origin will be when it reaches floor 2
  
• Change its response to target Door 2
  
• Repeat for floor 3
  

 

• 
   
  
• Create another nodraw func_static brush near the first one
  
• Give it a trigger response
  
• Effect is to activate the ElevatorStim
  
• On the elevator button (or relay delay) you need to target that func_static.
  
• Repeat for other floors.
  
• Alternatively and perhaps better you can target from the elevator itself. There are spawnargs to trigger when it starts and trigger when it stops. You need to disable the stop one. I am also unsure of any other conflict with this but it should be OK
   
  

Test the above and reduce the radius of the stim to the minimum that works and is reliable.

The time interval is how often it tests in milliseconds. It's good practice to make this the longest that is practical because if you have a lot of stims firing every millisecond all while your FM is playing it can give a performance hit. 500 or 1000 is probably fine here and in any case, this stim is only firing when the elevator is moving not all the time the FM is being played.

[DeTeEff]

After DMAPing i get a warning; "Brush 5701 at 'coordinates' on entity 0 is unbounded".

 

I cannot find the brush. Is there some kind of search funtion for brushes?

 

Should I care about the brush? The mission plays...

 

 

EDIT: Found search function. Found brush. Converted brush to func static and grouped with other stuff. Problem solved!

Edited August 15, 2010 by Fieldmedic