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Thief 4 is trash.


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#76 Vae

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 06:58 AM

Sounds like they're making the game the same way the run their forums.


Don't we both know it, friend... :D...NH, I hope you're doing well.

It doesn't sound like they're planning on changing very much. It's highly likely they're getting a lot of pressure to get this out the door and not blow any more money on it.


I agree...It looks like they have their NuCore design principals.

#77 stumpy

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 07:34 AM

there's probably something in the map that tells you where you can jump, like a white piece of wood along the top of a wall you can jump to, just like a piece of rope wrapped around a long piece of wood sticking out of the roof of buildings where a rope arrow will stick too as show in the e3 demo.

#78 MacD11

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 04:30 PM

I was initially excited for this game, but after hearing about how linear it is it is making me not want to buy the game. I think ill still buy it though to see if anything changed by the final release.

However, with all this news exposing how linear the game is compared to the original games, its making me want to make a campaign of FM's for TDM, or maybe even an extension of the mod using it's (and doom 3's) source code. (if i knew how to code well :( )

#79 Jonathan1247

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 06:30 PM

Hmm... I'm starting to highly doubt any new changes as well. Well, a purchase on my part is looking highly unlikely. I'll rent the game, I may even buy it on sale on Steam.
But I will not pay full retail price for something that claims to be something it isn't.
That is... unless I see progress, which is becoming more and more doubtful.

Edited by Jonathan1247, 21 July 2013 - 06:31 PM.

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#80 chakkman

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 06:32 PM

I've read much about the new Thief game on TTLG, and here, and i can't help myself. I think even if they would have made the game compliant to the old Thief games, the Thief community is pretty strict upon what is right and what not for a Thief game. For example, for me, Thief Deadly Shadows also was a real Thief game, which had most if not everything the "classic" Thief games made enjoyable. But it got a pretty harsh bashing on TTLG, for example people thought the control was a mess (it wasn't really, i think people didn't get that the character first moves his head, and then moves his body when you look around), or were complaining about some missing movement options (which is also pretty much nonsense, every movement of 2 also was there in Thief 3). Anyway, i think the game dev's wouldn't have made themselves a favour with taking on the complete Thief's lore, because 1. New players won't know about it anyway and 2. They can only lose that way, if i take a look at all the reactions and the bashing it got over on TTLG when there weren't even facts available about the actual gameplay. Not sure, maybe they would have done better to do a comnpletely new game, so people don't expect the 4th remix of the same old thing, which honestly it would be, if you don't change the game dynamics.

Personally, i look forward to the new Thief, even though i hardly will be able to play it on this old machine... probably time for a new PC soon. :) The gameplay videos gace me at least the typical sneaky stealth Thief feeling, i first felt a bit overwhelmded by the visuals, as it is nowadays, they have to exaggerate on that a bit, but you get used to it when you focus on the important stuff. Also i believe they made some senseful additions to the gameplay, which should make looking for the favored way of doing things interesting.

#81 grayman

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 06:48 PM

... its making me want to make a campaign of FM's for TDM ...


Yeah, do that!

#82 Springheel

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 07:11 PM

for example people thought the control was a mess (it wasn't really, i think people didn't get that the character first moves his head, and then moves his body when you look around)


Whether it's a "mess" is subjective, but it certainly felt a lot less smooth and natural than the first two games, and lead to situations where you could fall off ledges because your "body" was facing a different way from your head.

or were complaining about some missing movement options (which is also pretty much nonsense, every movement of 2 also was there in Thief 3).


I don't remember hearing people complaining about missing movement options, but I do remember them complaining about a lack of rope arrows, no swimable water, loading zones, loot glint, atomic blue froblights, glowing blue arrow trails, large and awkward HUD elements and third person gameplay. I think just about every one of those issues is present in T4 as well, so far as we know, with the exception of loading zones.
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#83 Subjective Effect

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 07:25 PM

There is a missing movement option in Thief 3 - lean. It's a sidestep which is different to lean as it breaks stealth in darkness and you can step off an edge.

TBH with all the latest news I just can't wait for the standalone version of TDM. I'm going to upgrade my computer again soon and do a fresh install of everything so I hope TDM is ready as standalone because I really want to get some Thieving on!
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#84 chakkman

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 07:26 PM

I don't remember hearing people complaining about missing movement options, but I do remember them complaining about a lack of rope arrows, no swimable water, loading zones, loot glint, atomic blue froblights, glowing blue arrow trails, large and awkward HUD elements and third person gameplay. I think just about every one of those issues is present in T4 as well, so far as we know, with the exception of loading zones.

If you want to call those issues. :) There were no rope arrows in Thief 3, that's true, there were climbing gloves though. Glowing blue arrow trails i can't remember, not sure what it means though, third person gameplay was optional. Actually Thief 3 featured an additional movement skill, as you were able to press yourself against walls, making you completely invisible in narrow corridors. Of course also subjective whether that's an enrichment or not. I liked the loot glint btw. It wasn't too obvious, but making it easier to spot things i might have overseen in Thief 1 & 2. Again, personal preference whether you like that or not. Unarguably Deadly Shadows had the best soundtrack of all parts though. :)

#85 chakkman

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 07:28 PM

There is a missing movement option in Thief 3 - lean. It's a sidestep which is different to lean as it breaks stealth in darkness and you can step off an edge.

Yeah, that was about the only issue i had with the controls in Thief 3. Pretty easy to get used to though, as it was quite forseeable and not random.

#86 Lux

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 08:13 PM

I was actually a big fan of the wall hug in Thief 3. Something that should have been in the series all along.

Edited by Lux, 21 July 2013 - 08:13 PM.


#87 Jonathan1247

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 08:57 PM

Thief: Deadly Shadows to me is a flawed gem. It was rushed. Hell, it was practically shipped from an escape pod before Ion Storm Studios spontaneously combusted.
Considering the turmoil in the studio, I looked past a lot of problems in Thief: Deadly Shadows.
However, Eidos Montreal doesn't suffer from the issues Ion Storm faced, so it's baffling that Thief 4 actually may be worse than Thief: Deadly Shadows.

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#88 MacD11

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 10:42 PM

Yeah, do that!


Its quite honestly something I would love to do!

...Once I know how to use dark radiant.

#89 stumpy

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 01:32 AM

i was wondering if they can't do the things that are in the original 2 games due to limits in the engine they are using, for the first two games looking glass studio's wrote the code for the engine and the editor, for thief 3 it was a odd version of the unreal engine, was supposed to be an experimental version of the unreal warfare engine, but not sure. And for thief 4 its either unreal 3 engine or the crystal dynamic engine used for the last tomb raider game. there's an eidos forum moderator saying its the crystal dynamic engine and ign news report saying its the unreal 3 engine.

#90 Melan

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 01:43 AM

Anyway, i think the game dev's wouldn't have made themselves a favour with taking on the complete Thief's lore, because 1. New players won't know about it anyway and 2. They can only lose that way, if i take a look at all the reactions and the bashing it got over on TTLG when there weren't even facts available about the actual gameplay.

I would have been completely on board with a reboot (even the dreaded modern version suggested by that sketch of Garrett in a hoodie and carrying a sports bag), as well as a mechanical overhaul. My issue is, the new game looks horrible in its own right, even if we peel away the high expectations and fan obsessions. That's the problem.
Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

#91 chakkman

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 06:09 AM

My issue is, the new game looks horrible in its own right, even if we peel away the high expectations and fan obsessions. That's the problem.

In your opinion. :)

#92 stumpy

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 07:54 AM

very linear, being led by the constant on screen prompts of which way to go, whats loot able and what you have to use to progress via bright radioactive atomic blue hi_lights. and what are likely to be loads of 'you cant do that yet' or 'you are in the wrong place to do that', the fact the level shown looks very grey, unless that was something wrong with the ps3/4 they used to show off the demo, the fact the demo was on a console and not a pc. according to people who played the demo you constantly ended up dead a lot unless you went along one specific path, once you got into the building you ended up dead very fast.

Instead of it being a sprawling city with many routes through it, your choice of which places to go next depending on what information you find out, and buildings with more than three entrances and exit points, and no onscreen prompts telling you that you are going the wrong way. (most people today can't play this type of game, they need to be led by the nose by constant onscreen prompts else they go into panic mode, there some video's on youtube showing people trying to play system shock 2 and panicking when they get to a junction of more than two corridors.)

although apart from the scenes in the demo not much is known about how the rest of it works, there a rumours of city hubs from eidos forum mods who were at e3, but they wern't shown. A bit like deadly shadows city hubs, although they were rather small and had loading zones between each small area.

#93 New Horizon

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 08:10 AM

In your opinion. :)


Given Melan's experience as an artist / Mission author extraordinaire in both Dark Engine and Dark Mod, I think his opinion carries more weight than most!

#94 Melan

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 08:33 AM

In your opinion. :)

Do I have to add this disclaimer below every post I make? No, I don't, and neither does anyone else.
Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

#95 Springheel

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 08:35 AM

If you want to call those issues. :)


Well yes, if you actually don't mind any of those things, then you would probably love the game. Lots of people did. I quite enjoyed it myself, though I had to spend a lot of energy trying to ignore those things, along with the campy humour and childish vocal scripts.
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#96 chakkman

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 08:44 AM

Do I have to add this disclaimer below every post I make? No, I don't, and neither does anyone else.

No, but it sounded as if it was a fact which it surely isn't. You said "That's the problem". Well obviously it's not a general problem, but the one you personally have with it. Anyway, each to its like of course. I can very well live with people not enjoying what they're seeing. I just doubt that it's the general view, even for those who enjoyed the old Thief games.

#97 Sotha

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 09:01 AM

No, but it sounded as if it was a fact which it surely isn't. You said "That's the problem". Well obviously it's not a general problem, but the one you personally have with it.


That's what we do here all days long: we exchange our individual beliefs and assumptions. At some point they are bound to differ.

Anyone participating in any kind of exchange in any forum should be aware of this starting premise.
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#98 Springheel

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 09:05 AM

No, but it sounded as if it was a fact


Well, that's just your opinion, right?

:P
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#99 chakkman

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 09:18 AM

:D

Well, nevermind. Not worth a discussion IMO. :P

#100 Baal

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 09:22 AM

I just doubt that it's the general view, even for those who enjoyed the old Thief games.

I can only speak for myself but I believe most people here share that view. However, I wouldn't call it horrible, just uninteresting. There's nothing (positively) exciting about it except for the name.




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