The Dark Mod Great Summer Vertical FM Contest!

[grayman]

I'll need an extra day.

 

All the beta feedback is dealt with, but I'm trying to polish the final cutscene. I don't think that will be done tonight.

 

I'll finish that tomorrow early, do final run-throughs, and submit later in the day.

[Fidcal]

OK, thanks grayman.

[Bikerdude]

Fids, mine is almost ready for b-testing - I'm looking for a weekend release.

[Fidcal]

Thanks. I Look forward to that!

[grayman]

Well, Murphy's Law hit me hard tonight.

 

I was doing my final runthrough, and encountered a problem that 2 of my 3 beta testers saw, but which didn't show up on either of my 2 computers, so I couldn't fix it. I had to grab a fresh DL of TDM for one of the computers, and lo and behold, there's the problem.

 

The clock area (which I posted a screenshot of a few weeks back) has incurred a blackness in its upper half that is unacceptable. I now have to take the time to try and fix this, and I don't know how long it will take, since there are no visportals in sync with the blackness, and I don't have any manually-resized models in this room. It shows up on only one of my computers. Maybe I'll DL a fresh TDM onto the other one and see if it turns up.

 

Sorry. I'm disappointed about this; I wanted to submit on time and couldn't do it, and now this crap happens at the last minute.

 

I'll submit when I can.

[grayman]

I thought I was facing some big visportal/architecture glitch, but it turned out to be simple.

 

My map is so tall that I outran the default ambient light size.

 

I'm moving it to the center of the map vertically and that should solve the shadow problem. I don't know why it didn't show up until I re-DL'ed TDM.

 

Jeesh. Back on track to try to deliver tonight.

[Komag]

Ha ha, that's funny! Glad you found the problem and that it wasn't something bad

[stumpy]

you can have more than one ambient_world light, my tower's got two.

[Tels]

you can have more than one ambient_world light, my tower's got two.

 

But the ambient location settings script will only work on one, and also the ambient rendering system will only work on one. So no, you shouldn't put more than one ambient_world light in your map - it won't work properly, and it is not really nec. either.

 

What you *can* do is adding more local ambient lights, (by providing "fill lights" that do not cast shadows).

[Fidcal]

Yes, in fast ambient mode players will see only black unless your ambient is named exactly ambient_world. ambient_world1 or 2 just won't work.

[stumpy]

I dont know ambient sounds work in both areas where theres seperate ambient_worlds, used the ambient_world entity in darkradiant as it said you can add up to 9 seperate ones. although you can only get to the other area which has the other ambient world via a teleport. its the endless stairs and river styx sections.

[Bikerdude]

Fids, where are the rest of the entries or are they all like me, still working on thiers..?

[nbohr1more]

Neb

 

and

 

Xonze

 

...are the other remaining entrants.

 

 

Komag (he is stating he will release...?)

Baal

DeathStage_12

_Atti_

nic485x (?)

winter (?)

 

...are on the maybe list...

 

(Figured I would recompile the public info )

Edited August 20, 2010 by nbohr1more

[Fidcal]

What I said was not right. You can certainly use other ambient lights. Their name is irrelevant. With ambient_world it should cover the entire world or not be present at all. If it is present in a map at all then if a player sets fast mode then ambient_world is switched off and the texture brightness boosted instead. So if ambient_world does not cover the entire map then in those areas it does not cover, it will still be effectively brighter in fast mode - plus an other ambient light you might have.

 

The right way to have ambient lights is two ways:

 

One ambient_world covering the entire map set low so that even in dark corners there is enough ambient light to navigate by. Additional local ambient lights such as highlights are OK but they will be added to the light from ambient_world.

 

The other way is to have one ambient_world covering the entire map and use location settings to change it during the game (see wiki.)

[Baddcog]

Honestly I think people should probably go no lower than 6 on the world_ambient. I tried 4 and my beta testers just cranked up their gamma, said it was too dark instead of using their lanterns as intended.

Before that I had even added a ambient of 3 to the world_ambient of 4 and I could navigate the tunnels without the lantern, but it helped.

 

Thing is, no matter what your 'artistic integrity or vision is'. People do NOT like pitch black and will instead complain and crank their gamma, thus negating any vision or integrity. And just forcing them to play a washed out game (which is horrible in it's own right).

 

Best yet is to just leave it deault, then everyone has the same ambient in EVERY map and they never have to make gamma adjustments because they've already found their personal comfort zone.

 

If you want an area to be darker than default you can use a location setting to adjust the ambient. And players are less likely to adjust their gamma if they pass through a dark area than if the entire map is dark. (compared to all other maps they play). In which case they are probably more likely to use the lantern as a tool instead of reliying on gamma adjustment to make the map tolerable.

[Fidcal]

I would put the range from 5 to 8 depending on the type of FM, light placement, and textures used. The default ambient_world in the entity list is 8. I think that is a little high except in FMs with lots of dark textures sparse lighting. The default in the prefab and in startmap is 6.

 

The important thing is that everyone should calibrate their gamma according to the trainer gamma room. That is the standard. From there, everyone is free to raise or lower their gamma to their own preference so long as they know what the standard is.

 

What this should mean is this. Suppose a mapper prefers all FMs including his own to be slightly brighter than what is popular. He calibrates to the trainer standard. Then he raises his own gamma slightly. Now, when he chooses an ambient light it will look brighter to him so he can choose one of a slightly lower number. In other words, he should still choose say 6 because to him it will look like 7 or 8 because his gamma is high.

 

The mapper/player who likes all FMs to be a little dark also calibrates his gamma in the trainer. He then says to himself, I like it a little darker. So he turns down the gamma slightly. So a 6 looks like a 5 to him. So when he plays the above mapper's FM it still looks OK to him because it is a 6 and looks like 5 to him. Also when he makes a map he chooses say 6 because it looks like 5 to him. So everybody is happy.

[Baddcog]

Man you like to complicate thing

 

Isn't that what I said? If everyone sticks to the same ambient, adjusts there gamma according to their comfort level you won't have to adjust your gamma for every map.

[Bikerdude]

My ambient is always at 6, which coincides with the way i like it.

[aidakeeley]

My ambient is always at 6, which coincides with the way i like it.

 

See now that's crazy. What right have you to decide the "way [you] like it"? And furthermore, what right have you to coincide with your self preference? I will argue that you need arguing with... Taffer!

 

 

ETA*

 

PS. What I really wanted to say: Thanks for the latest run down here concerning entrants on TGSFMC2010, nbohr, and the effort to get the ETA** of WIPs thing happening also...

 

PSS. Oh yeah... and another effin thing, gd it!!! Wow, this has been a great success -- this here contest. I've only played but ~3-4 of them so far and have had many blasts. Thanks to the participants, and as always, thanks to the organizer, central scrutinizer, and general helpinizer, Fidcal.

 

*Edited to add

 

**Estimated time of arrival

 

***

Edited August 21, 2010 by aidakeeley

[Midnight]

ETA*

ETA**

 

*Edited to add

**Estimated time of arrival

 

***

[Melan]

I looked at my ambient_world, and it is at 6. Apparently I am not as bad as I thought.

 

Love dark missions, though. Tears of Blood? The Broadsword of Sheol? Sign me up!

[aidakeeley]

 

Yeah... but I did manage to get PPS wrong or maybe I was taking the pss...

[grayman]

I have a voting question.

 

With my older computers, I sometimes find myself slogging through a mission because of low FPS. RTTC is the only one I've been unable to even start, though.

 

Wrt the contest polling, if I find I can't make any progress because of this problem, should I not vote at all, or should I give a Poor score for gameplay/lag?

 

I've had to abandon one of the contest missions near the start because of this. It's unplayable for me.

 

The problem is that I'm sure the mapper created it on a fast computer and it's meant to be played on fast computers. Why should I ding the map if it won't play on a slow computer? I see that more of my problem than his.

 

Thanks.

[Sotha]

Wrt the contest polling, if I find I can't make any progress because of this problem, should I not vote at all, or should I give a Poor score for gameplay/lag?

 

I don't know what the official opinion on this is, but..

If your computer is very old, then it probably would be fair to not vote at all. It is not the map's fault if you choose to play with technologically redundant equipment. It would mean that a player could choose to play all missions with a slow computer and then denounce the maps totally. It definately would not be ethical from a map contest participant, in my humble opinion.

 

However, if your computer is rather new, then it would be fair to give poorer grade, since poor performance suggest poor visportalling, etc poor mapping.

 

I use the words "choose to play with ," because computer hardware is so cheap nowadays that even a student can afford to buy a modern computer with little saving.

[Komag]

I think you should not vote at all if you couldn't fairly play the map and properly evaluate it