Fan Mission: The Heart of Saint Mattis by joebarnin (2019/09/10)

[Dead Rat 10]

Thanks Joe, it's an enjoyable mission. Nearly finished but I can't work out

Spoiler

...what I'm supposed to do to discredit Vincent.

 

[joebarnin 248]

22 minutes ago, Dead Rat said:

Thanks Joe, it's an enjoyable mission. Nearly finished but I can't work out

  Reveal hidden contents

...what I'm supposed to do to discredit Vincent.

 

In the first post of this thread, there’s a section in spoiler text that provides some hints. Expand it, and expand the section within it about optional objectives. Within that you’ll find hints about Molly the cook - the hints are progressive so they don’t spoil everything at once.

Edited September 14, 2019 by joebarnin
Added spoiler

[Dead Rat 10]

37 minutes ago, joebarnin said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

In the first post of this thread, there’s a section in spoiler text that provides some hints. Expand it, and expand the section within it about optional objectives. Within that you’ll find hints about Molly the cook - the hints are progressive so they don’t spoil everything at once.

 

Ah, ta. I should be able to work it out from there. 

[Spyrano 7]

Needed some hints with this one, but very well done. Thanks!

[Heuli 29]

Thanks for the great mission joebarnin
the mission came 1 day for may birthday

Greetings from Hamburg

 

[prjames 3]

I'm stuck at the very end.  I'm playing the "middle" difficulty level and have completed all other objectives thanks to the hints at the start of this thread.

 

The final objective says to exit via the Front Gate.  None of the keys I have unlock the front gate.  Also, although I managed to take the back way between the Green Room and the door to the storage room in the sewers, I also never found a key to that door.  Is the front gate the way to exit?  Or am I supposed to exit some other way?   (Also, this problem doesn't change whether or not I cleanse the heart on the way out - it just changes the nature of the enemies I face.  )

 

- prjames

Edited September 15, 2019 by prjames

[joebarnin 248]

3 hours ago, prjames said:

I'm stuck at the very end.  I'm playing the "middle" difficulty level and have completed all other objectives thanks to the hints at the start of this thread.

  Hide contents

The final objective says to exit via the Front Gate.  None of the keys I have unlock the front gate.  Also, although I managed to take the back way between the Green Room and the door to the storage room in the sewers, I also never found a key to that door.  Is the front gate the way to exit?  Or am I supposed to exit some other way?   (Also, this problem doesn't change whether or not I cleanse the heart on the way out - it just changes the nature of the enemies I face.  )

 

- prjames

The front gate is the way to exit. The Front Gate key is in different locations, depending on the difficulty. For 'middle' difficulty, there are two Front Gate keys available: 1) in the Guards Quarters, on top of one of the cabinets, and 2) in one of the Vestries (the one that doesn't have the clock), on the floor to the left of the desk. Either one of those keys will unlock the front gate, and then you'll be able to finish the mission.

The key to the sewer storage door is hanging on a nail in the wall, across from the locked door (not directly across, but close). It's located above a mushroom should you should be able to see it?

[prjames 3]

4 hours ago, joebarnin said:

 

  Hide contents

The front gate is the way to exit. The Front Gate key is in different locations, depending on the difficulty. For 'middle' difficulty, there are two Front Gate keys available: 1) in the Guards Quarters, on top of one of the cabinets, and 2) in one of the Vestries (the one that doesn't have the clock), on the floor to the left of the desk. Either one of those keys will unlock the front gate, and then you'll be able to finish the mission.

The key to the sewer storage door is hanging on a nail in the wall, across from the locked door (not directly across, but close). It's located above a mushroom should you should be able to see it?

 

That was the information I needed; I had not seen any of those keys until you pointed out their locations.  Thank you.  Great mission! 

  - prjames

 

[MrMunkeepants 5]

thank you for the great mission, and the nested hints!

thanks also to the others here providing tips for those having trouble.

I never got the display case at the front open, though the note said 

Spoiler

the switch was conveniently located.

where was it?

[Jedi_Wannabe 219]

6 hours ago, MrMunkeepants said:

thank you for the great mission, and the nested hints!

thanks also to the others here providing tips for those having trouble.

I never got the display case at the front open, though the note said 

  Reveal hidden contents

the switch was conveniently located.

where was it?

Spoiler

Should be a button on the side of the desk where you read that note.

 

[Bienie 424]

Just finished this one this evening. Great work! I really enjoyed the storyline, and the readables were well written.

I also very much enjoyed all the little side objectives you added, in particular helping Molly get that creep off her case and making sure the boy gets a new lease on life. But oh boy did you make me work for it! I really think in general you're putting a bit too much faith in the average player's ability to find small obscure objects, switches and such. I guess for side objectives that's OK but I had to consult the hints several times even on the main objective. That's really the only bit of criticism I have though.

[joebarnin 248]

17 hours ago, Bienie said:

Just finished this one this evening. Great work! I really enjoyed the storyline, and the readables were well written.

 

  Hide contents

I also very much enjoyed all the little side objectives you added, in particular helping Molly get that creep off her case and making sure the boy gets a new lease on life. But oh boy did you make me work for it! I really think in general you're putting a bit too much faith in the average player's ability to find small obscure objects, switches and such. I guess for side objectives that's OK but I had to consult the hints several times even on the main objective. That's really the only bit of criticism I have though.

 

One of the things I struggle with is how hard to make things for the player. I wasn't sure about this mission; that's why I put the hints in right from the start. Still, I was hoping that the main objective could be done without hints.

Just had an idea - the difficulty level could actually change the readables, so that the text in the books is more explicit at easier levels. For example, on the hardest level it reads

I should thank Brother Minton for installing the switch in such a convenient location

but on the easiest level is reads

I should thank Brother Minton for installing the switch in such a convenient location, right on the side of my desk.

Has that even been done?

Funny thing is, as a player I'm not particularly bright and I usually need hints. 

[Tarhiel 31]

Fanatastic mission, joebarnin, I enjoyed it alot! 

 

There were few thing at the end that baffled me:

Spoiler

 - First, there was no clue as to where to look for the third part of the key - I ASSUMED I have read every readable and I haven´t missed it but I was worried that it might be still somewhere in the cathedral instead in the tomb, that maybe I have overlooked some clue. So giving to player a small hint, maybe in the second Niemath´s journal, that the third part still haven´t been found, wouldn´t be bad. 

- Second thing which confused me was the note about "the water of the Saints" - all the time I thought "Of course, you need to use holy water on it" - so when I opened the tomb, I immediately, without touching the stone itslef, dipped water arrows to holy water and shoot the heart with it - only to be really surprised it didn´t help as the curse was still triggered.

So I took the heart, drop it on the ground and then repeated the process - to no avail.

Then I had to look into your clues, because I was baffled  

 

The layout of the mission is well done, maybe some rooms could have been smaller (like forge or storage area), but overall it was nicely done.

Cathedral was majestic, I enjoyed walking in it just like that.

 

- Also, good job with the optional objective of helping the cook with Vincent - I thought I have to look for some evidence to discredit him, some dirt on him (usually in Thief/Dark mod missions it´s like that), but it didn´t occurred to me I have to frame him, so I had to look this one up.

But this is just me not being able to think out of the box, so this was a good puzzle.

- I really liked the rat´s + ring puzzle, it would never occur to me to follow the rat, only after I have read the readable - nicely done 

I also like that Garret (I still call the main protagonist Garret, no matter what) had option to return it to the grave instead of keeping it.

 

- There´s one chest which I couldn´t open throughout the whole game - down in the church basement, it is in the room where there are 3 chests, 2 of them can be opened and the third I wasn´t able to find a key for.

And I must say your mission is well optimized - throughout the whole time I had stable frame rate of 120FPS, maybe even more, but that´s the maximum my monitor can draw.

Edited September 22, 2019 by Tarhiel

[joebarnin 248]

1 hour ago, Tarhiel said:

Fanatastic mission, joebarnin, I enjoyed it alot! 

 

There were few thing at the end that baffled me:

  Hide contents

 - First, there was no clue as to where to look for the third part of the key - I ASSUMED I have read every readable and I haven´t missed it but I was worried that it might be still somewhere in the cathedral instead in the tomb, that maybe I have overlooked some clue. So giving to player a small hint, maybe in the second Niemath´s journal, that the third part still haven´t been found, wouldn´t be bad. 

- Second thing which confused me was the note about "the water of the Saints" - all the time I thought "Of course, you need to use holy water on it" - so when I opened the tomb, I immediately, without touching the stone itslef, dipped water arrows to holy water and shoot the heart with it - only to be really surprised it didn´t help as the curse was still triggered.

So I took the heart, drop it on the ground and then repeated the process - to no avail.

Then I had to look into your clues, because I was baffled  

 

The layout of the mission is well done, maybe some rooms could have been smaller (like forge or storage area), but overall it was nicely done.

Cathedral was majestic, I enjoyed walking in it just like that.

 

- Also, good job with the optional objective of helping the cook with Vincent - I thought I have to look for some evidence to discredit him, some dirt on him (usually in Thief/Dark mod missions it´s like that), but it didn´t occurred to me I have to frame him, so I had to look this one up.

But this is just me not being able to think out of the box, so this was a good puzzle.

- I really liked the rat´s + ring puzzle, it would never occur to me to follow the rat, only after I have read the readable - nicely done 

I also like that Garret (I still call the main protagonist Garret, no matter what) had option to return it to the grave instead of keeping it.

 

- There´s one chest which I couldn´t open throughout the whole game - down in the church basement, it is in the room where there are 3 chests, 2 of them can be opened and the third I wasn´t able to find a key for.

And I must say your mission is well optimized - throughout the whole time I had stable frame rate of 120FPS, maybe even more, but that´s the maximum my monitor can draw.

Thanks for your detailed comments - I'm glad you liked it. For the two items mentioned, the readables could be more explicit. Specifically,

Niemath's second journal says "I just need to find the last key fragment", perhaps it should read "I just need to find the last key fragment, which I'm sure is down here in the crypts" or something similar. Maybe even provide more detailed clues as to its location

and

I sort of assume that you already found the stoup (the basin with the holy water in it) in the cathedral -- if you didn't, then I can understand the confusion. Perhaps his second journal could read "I understand the reference to the stoup in the cathedral" (instead of just "I understand the reference to the stoup"), thus pointing you back to look for it in the cathedral.

As for

There´s one chest which I couldn´t open throughout the whole game - down in the church basement, it is in the room where there are 3 chests, 2 of them can be opened and the third I wasn´t able to find a key for.

that turns out to be

one of the secrets. There is a key hidden on the legs/supports of the dining room table (downstairs). That will open that chest

[Oleron 5]

This looks like just the sort of place that should have a basement full of restless, unclean things, but if it does, I can't find it. Please assist.

[Bienie 424]

1 hour ago, Oleron said:

This looks like just the sort of place that should have a basement full of restless, unclean things, but if it does, I can't find it. Please assist.

If you are stuck joebarnin has a good hints section in the first post. You should look especially at

the mausoleum part.

[Bienie 424]

On 9/21/2019 at 8:17 PM, joebarnin said:

One of the things I struggle with is how hard to make things for the player. I wasn't sure about this mission; that's why I put the hints in right from the start. Still, I was hoping that the main objective could be done without hints.

Just had an idea - the difficulty level could actually change the readables, so that the text in the books is more explicit at easier levels. For example, on the hardest level it reads

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I should thank Brother Minton for installing the switch in such a convenient location

 

but on the easiest level is reads

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I should thank Brother Minton for installing the switch in such a convenient location, right on the side of my desk.

 

Has that even been done?

Funny thing is, as a player I'm not particularly bright and I usually need hints. 

Yes I do think that making readables with more direct hints on lower difficulties is a good idea. I did this for Pearls & Swine, specifically the lady's diary. Still even on harder difficulties it's better to err on the side of clarity, even if a little riddling is never a bad idea. Another tip is to as your testers to comment on the difficulty of such things which usually yields pretty good feedback!

[Oleron 5]

22 minutes ago, Bienie said:

If you are stuck joebarnin has a good hints section in the first post. You should look especially at

  Hide contents

the mausoleum part.

 

That seemed the obvious place. Guess I missed it the first time.

Edited September 22, 2019 by Oleron
Derp.

[Oleron 5]

On 9/22/2019 at 6:45 PM, Bienie said:

If you are stuck joebarnin has a good hints section in the first post. You should look especially at

  Reveal hidden contents

the mausoleum part.

 

Still no joy. I mean, I discovered the ...

 

Spoiler

...frobbable wall panels in the one mausoleum...

...but they don't seem to do anything aside from make spooky noises.

[joebarnin 248]

56 minutes ago, Oleron said:

Still no joy. I mean, I discovered the ...

 

  Reveal hidden contents

...frobbable wall panels in the one mausoleum...

...but they don't seem to do anything aside from make spooky noises.

The order the you press the panels is important.   Neimath’s journal has a hint at the end

Wind, Fire, Rain, Rock

[Oleron 5]

17 minutes ago, joebarnin said:

 

  Hide contents

The order the you press the panels is important.   Neimath’s journal has a hint at the end

  Reveal hidden contents

Wind, Fire, Rain, Rock

 

 

Yup yup, thanks...I was too lazy to read =D

[Cambridge Spy 142]

Here's my playthrough of The Heart of Saint Mattis:

 

 

[Bluehawk 16]

One piece of loot I saw but could not reach was

a bag of gold stuck to the ceiling next to the very long chain of a hanging lamp. I tried jumping onto the chain from the side-chapel, the balcony above and from the neighbouring columns, but I couldn't jump high or far enough. Are the stained glass windows meant to be climbable? I couldn't get up onto the window sill. I even tried knocking the gold down with a broadhead arrow but the arrow stuck in the purse as if it were wood!

[joebarnin 248]

19 hours ago, Bluehawk said:

One piece of loot I saw but could not reach was

  Reveal hidden contents

a bag of gold stuck to the ceiling next to the very long chain of a hanging lamp. I tried jumping onto the chain from the side-chapel, the balcony above and from the neighbouring columns, but I couldn't jump high or far enough. Are the stained glass windows meant to be climbable? I couldn't get up onto the window sill. I even tried knocking the gold down with a broadhead arrow but the arrow stuck in the purse as if it were wood!

 

That's a hard one. I give you a lot of credit for what you tried! You have to shoot a rope arrow into the wooden ball at the end of the long chain (just above the lamp). Then climb up and switch over to the chain (which is climbable). Climb all the way up to get the loot.

[acolyte6 24]

On 9/12/2019 at 8:53 AM, krrg said:

Wow, the atmosphere in this was incredible!

  Hide contents

Those floating weapon ghost things were...absolutely the most terrifying thing ever.

I never did find the key to the first footlocker in the storage room though...and evidently I missed 1000 gold worth of loot.

Favorite parts were the little good deed objectives...the ones I uncovered at least were helping Molly out, the widow's ring, and dropping the purse for Billy's apprenticeship.  Maybe that makes up for stealing from the dead

I did find a very minor modeling glitch in the back of the cathedral where the window model's pillar is...obviously "empty".

  Reveal hidden contents

And finally

  Reveal hidden contents

I got really confused in the acolyte room with the unreadable journal on the bedside table...thought I was missing some big storyline, but now that I think about it, that might just be a standard open book skin oops.

 

As for those floating hammers, where do I aim my Arrows? I've managed to hit it once with a holy water Arrow, but the fire Arrow just goes past every time...