Newbie DarkRadiant Questions

[DeusXIncognita]

I tried to use some own textures (or better own material file).

 

Sadly, when applying it, the texture is just black in the game.

 

Because I first couldn't find my textures, I changed around my game settings in the preferences (then i noticed I forgot to rename the copied material file, and so it wasn't shown.). Thats why I am not sure if I fixed the preferences right.

 

I have installed darkmod in c:\games/darkmod

the material file is in c:\games/darkmod/fms/kiosk

the map is in c:\games/darkmod/maps/kiosk

 

In the preferences I have:

Engine Path: C:\ games

Mod (fs_game): darkmod/fms/kiosk

Mod Base(fs_game_base, optional): darkmod

 

I think something might be wrong with these, but I have no idea really what might be the cause for the black texture. If anyone can help me, or push me in the right direction, I would really appreciate it.

[Airship Ballet]

I imagine there's just a typo somewhere in your material file. Check through it really thoroughly and, if that fails, just remake it from scratch more carefully.

Edited May 2, 2015 by Airship Ballet

[SteveL]

Your material file needs to be in

 

c:\games/darkmod/fms/kiosk/materials/

 

If your map is in c:\games/darkmod/fms/kiosk/maps

 

If your map is in the main darkmod maps folder, you'd make a materials folder in your main darkmod folder instead. Basically you have a choice of building your map and extra assets in your fms/kiosk folder, or in the main darkmod folders, but you can't mix the two.

 

If you've already made the fms/kiosk folder and set up DR to use it, then move your map there too.

 

The folder structure always looks the same whether you are using an fm-specific folder or not. Your materials folder should be next to your maps folder.

Edited May 3, 2015 by SteveL

[Airship Ballet]

But if it can be selected in DR yet appears black in-game, doesn't that mean it's in the right place but is broken in and of itself?

[SteveL]

Not necessarily. It sounded to me like DR was pointing to a fms/ folder but that TDM did not have an fm installed. DR will let you have the assets in one folder and the map file can be loaded from any folder, but TDM needs them both in the same place.

[Bikerdude]

@Steve, whats with the large fonts..?

[SteveL]

@Steve, whats with the large fonts..?

 

Gah, crappy chrome browser on my phone. It usually behaves, but sometimes messes up sizes and I don't see it until I come back to the page. My posts always appear to use a tiny font until I reload the page.

[DeusXIncognita]

But if it can be selected in DR yet appears black in-game, doesn't that mean it's in the right place but is broken in and of itself?

That shouldn't be it, it happened with the exact copy of a functioning texture too (just renamed).

Your material file needs to be in

 

c:\games/darkmod/fms/kiosk/materials/

And there it was, i just didn't know about the "Do not mix folder structures" rule.

I think the two folders come from a try to set it up as a project (been some time ago, can't remember exactly, but i tried the first article below to set it up, seem to have made mistakes though too)

 

My problem now is:

I cannot manage to set it up as a project anywhere so its working.

 

I tried working through pointers in this article

http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Startpack_Mappers%27_Guide#Project_versus_Non-Project.3F

 

and in this:

http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Setting_up_a_Workspace

 

and by now I have completly lost overview what works how, and feel a little like starting to get crazy.

I have only been using TDM since its standalone, so from the start all the doom3 references are the start of making me feel lost. (I never had doom3).

 

I try to break myself down to two direct questions:

 

1) The reason my "engine path" is just "C:\games" (At least thats what I found working, jusing /darkmod behind it usually had some error in the combinations) is because it was a doom3 mod I guess?

 

2) How would I set up a project in "darkmod/fms/kiosk", and how would I set all the parameters for a darkmod link and darkradiant link, so that it works?

[SteveL]

We / I ought to have another go at writing instructions for the wiki. I remember having lots of frustration with this setup too.

 

You have 2 options: put your new map in the main darkmod folder structure, or separate it off in a special folder for your fm or project. If you are going to be doing any of the following then you should use a separate folder to stop things getting even more confusing:

• Adding your own assets / materials / scripts etc
• Sharing your map with anyone else, including packaging and publishing it for release
• Overriding any core TDM assets

 

Here's an example set up for the separate folder version, for a map called kiosk and with TDM in the c:/games/darkmod/ folder, and that has a map file plus a custom material file. Once you have it working right, it's easy to duplicate the FM folder to make more projects.

 

 

Naming your material file

 

Give your material file a new name, such as kiosk.mtr. Paste in the material definitions that you want to tweak, and rename them by changing the last bit of the name on the first line of each definition.

You do have the option of overriding a core TDM file by leaving the names the same, but there's really no reason to do that for materials. Just make a new file with newly-named materials

 

 

Extra files

 

You have your map file and materials file. On top of those you want two text files:

darkmod.txt

Title: Kiosk
Description: Enter description here when ready
Author: XXXX
Version: 1.0
Required TDM Version: 2.03

startingmap.txt

kiosk

The first file is what makes your map show up in TDM's New MIssion selector

The second one is needed to actually launch the map from the mission selector (instead of launching it from the console all the time).

 

 

File locations / Folder structure

 

c:/games/darkmod/fms/kiosk/maps/kiosk.map

c:/games/darkmod/fms/kiosk/materials/anyFileNameYouLike.mtr

c:/games/darkmod/fms/kiosk/darkmod.txt

c:/games/darkmod/fms/kiosk/startingmap.txt

 

 

DR Game settings

 

Game: Doom3

Engine path: c:/games/

Mod (fs_game): darkmod/fms/kiosk/

Mod base: darkmod

 

 

Starting TDM

 

Install "Kiosk" from the New Mission selector.

Run DMAP kiosk the first time

You can now launch your map from the console as usual, or from the "Start Mission" menu option.

Edited May 3, 2015 by SteveL

[DeusXIncognita]

Thanks a lot! I really appreciate all your help.

I was sooooo close to it, I could bite myself in the ...

I had the setup, the necessary files (they were mentioned in the wiki), the folder structure, the DR Settings...

But then I screwed up in how to get it running right in TDM. I tried to do it with a special shortcut, and couldn't get it to work.

Then I tried other things.

 

Thanks a lot for that description, it was really helpful, worked on first try, its fine now, and the Texture shows up wonderfully too.

It will need a lot of tweaking, but its a lot better than pure black now :-)

 

And I will save a lot of time typing kiosk/ this way

[Airship Ballet]

That shouldn't be it, it happened with the exact copy of a functioning texture too (just renamed).

It'll do the same thing if that's actually the case, though, so if it happens again and your folder structure is fine, that's why.

[Aosys]

Hi all,

 

I'm having a bit of an issue with performance right now. I'm attempting to make what I hope will eventually become an elevator cab, and one of the things I'm trying to do is include some diagonal latticework. I'm fairly happy with what I've managed to create, though unfortunately it tanks my frame rate in-game. I've already tried caulking all hidden faces and converting the lattice brushes to func_static, which seems to have helped slightly (?), but I still get a fair amount of lag. Is there any way I could improve the performance without taking it out completely?

[SteveL]

That should be ok. It should all be one entity by the way -- one func_static (if it won't move) or one func_mover or elevator entity if it's part of the moving platform. If you have lots of little func_statics or func_movers, that might explain the performance problem. For the player to ride on it, you should make a simple caulk brush to wrap the moveable floor, and turn that into a func_mover too and bind it to the main entity.

[Springheel]

There's no reason why a single collection of brushes like that should impact performance, unless it's being hit by half a dozen lights.

[Sotha]

Make it noshadows.

 

Also, such lattice brushes could be simply replaced with a grill texture. Not as fancy, but almost zero impact on performance.

[Aosys]

One thing I'm noticing is I get a lot of "WARNING: backwards triangle in input!" when I dmap. Could that be part of the issue?

[SteveL]

One thing I'm noticing is I get a lot of "WARNING: backwards triangle in input!" when I dmap. Could that be part of the issue?

 

No, that's a meaningless "warning" that we'll probably get rid of in the next TDM release.

[Dragofer]

One thing I'm noticing is I get a lot of "WARNING: backwards triangle in input!" when I dmap. Could that be part of the issue?

In my first mapping efforts I also made a brush lattice like that too and that also gave a lot of backward triangle errors. They're normal and harmless, but suddenly getting this many implies that the architecture is too taxing. Brushes are normally for walls, floors and trims, while fine details are covered by models. My brush lattice caused dmap to crash - I don't know if it could tank performance, but it's not so healthy for the map.

 

You can still do a lot with brushes though. For your lattice, I'd look at this:

- Brushes going in one direction could be slightly thicker so that they can be pierced by those going in the other direction without z-fighting or needing to carve them up at every intersection.

 

Caulking unseen surfaces is in my opinion only really worth doing on objects you're going to clone a lot of times in your map. Even better is caulk and convert them into an .ase model because then the object is only "created" once.

[VanishedOne]

You could try r_showTris 1 in the console to find out what the actual triangles look like, in case you've ended up with a load of tiny slivers or something.

[Obsttorte]

You may also make it nonsolid and place a clip brush for collision there. If it is intented to move, make the clip func_static and bind it to your lattice.

 

Complex collision meshes can have an performance impact either.

[Aosys]

Thanks a bunch for the advice, guys! I tinkered a bit with it, and as it is now the frame rate still drops a bit when I look at the lattice, but it's not nearly as bad as before (I found keeping CSG Subtract to a minimum has helped dramatically). Setting it to noshadows may also have made a difference.

 

Dragofer, I tried what you suggested with brush thickness and found that some of the lattice ended up disappearing in-game. Dunno what's up with that.

[Moonbo]

@Aosys, never, ever use csg subtract. It causes a lot more problems than its worth. It's annoying but it's better to just build all brushwork out of individually placed and manipulated brushes.

[Obsttorte]

For your lattice you don't need to substract parts of the brushes. Keep them in their whole length and displace one part of them oriented in one direction by one doom unit or so. This way you keep the tris count to a minimum.

 

And yes, never use substract for such detailed stuff. I only use it to remove rectangular wholes for doors and windows, but for nothing else.

[demagogue]

Much better to use the cut tool than the brush-subtract tool.

And as mentioned before, after you make all those brushes, you can select all of them, then covert the whole thing to a single func_stat.

[Melan]

The lack of a good subtract tool is my main DR gripe. It is a major impediment before making good, non-rectangular architecture.