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Status of Steam Greenlight?


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#1 Bikerdude

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 03:26 AM

Whats the status of this?

 

Has the team settled on where to create the legal entity and/or contacted Valve yet..?



#2 demagogue

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 04:05 AM

Legal entity will probably be in Canada, and the process to create it is relatively simple. So that's not really much of a worry now.

 

The really big task is giving Valve a report on the licensing rights for our assets.

 

To do this kind of task, we might need to get volunteers among fans, divide up the assets, and assign them out.

Then we can have a memo about the kind of research they should do.

 

For planning purposes, any fans out there reading this now, would you volunteer to help us with this kind of work?

 

Think of going through dozens or up to 100 or 100s of assets, confirming the license status with its source as far as you can track it down.

 

I don't think you need to know too much background information. Assets come with rights & licenses, and I or someone can write a memo of what to do. We'll want to make a spreadsheet with each asset & its license status. It might be that we don't need volunteers, but it's good to know in advance who'd be interested. This is essential work for us to release on Steam, so we'd have to do it one way or another.

 

To contact Valve, unless we have a really specific question (which we don't really have right now) we'll need something to turn in to them, otherwise they'll just repeat what they need. And what they need is: a legal entity, a report satisfying them that our assets are properly licensed for release, & keeping the Steam code out of our sourcecode.


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#3 Destined

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 04:53 AM

I would be willing to help with the license stuff. I just need to know what exactly to do / what to look for. I have absolutley no knowledge about lsicensing, but am willing to learn.



#4 chakkman

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 08:07 AM

What would that work be like? Searching for the image on Google, and checking the original site for the license? Further, which "assets" are meant exactly? The ones included in the Dark Radiant editor? And, even further, have those not be checked about their license? AFAIK, it would be illegal already to have assets in there, whose license protect them for free distribution, wouldn't it?



#5 Anderson

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 09:26 AM

\\


Edited by Anderson, 26 July 2017 - 09:29 AM.

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 "I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

 

 

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

 


#6 Anderson

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 09:28 AM

Think of going through dozens or up to 100 or 100s of assets, confirming the license status with its source as far as you can track it down.

 

I don't think you need to know too much background information. Assets come with rights & licenses, and I or someone can write a memo of what to do. We'll want to make a spreadsheet with each asset & its license status. It might be that we don't need volunteers, but it's good to know in advance who'd be interested. This is essential work for us to release on Steam, so we'd have to do it one way or another.

 

To contact Valve, unless we have a really specific question (which we don't really have right now) we'll need something to turn in to them, otherwise they'll just repeat what they need. And what they need is: a legal entity, a report satisfying them that our assets are properly licensed for release, & keeping the Steam code out of our sourcecode.

 

 

I would be willing to help with the license stuff. I just need to know what exactly to do / what to look for. I have absolutley no knowledge about lsicensing, but am willing to learn.

 

+1, willing to help and need more details when the time comes.


 "I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

 

 

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

 


#7 demagogue

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 08:47 PM

Thanks for volunteering everyone. And anyone else feel free to join at any time.

We might need a bit of time to get organized, but I'll PM people when we need help & give instructions.

 

@chakkman, "Assets" means any artistic creation that's going to be distributed by Steam. So the things packaged in the .pk4s (which is what shows up in DR). And yes, people thought about licenses for assets from the beginning. This task is more about we just need to document them for Valve in a single document, and there's a lot of them. Anything made & contributed by fans become Creative Commons (A.NC.SA) on submission by the terms of our own license, so those would be easy. And for those coming from banks, if they have their source or license carried with them in a readme or like heading text in a soundshader, those would be relatively easy. Just a matter of going through and compiling all that info into one place. Research would come in if, e.g., to check to see if the asset is from an asset bank.


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#8 teh_saccade

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 09:04 AM

Demagogue,

(spoilered so biker don't have to).
 

Spoiler

Edited by teh_saccade, 27 July 2017 - 09:08 AM.

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#9 teh_saccade

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 09:07 AM

On the subject of making your list, since pk4's are zip's - there's this useful thing that ls' contents, name, size, date, etc..:

http://www.nongnu.org/atool/
 

als darkmod.pk4

there's your list of the entire directory structure.

 

//i mean ".zip", not ".pk4"... easier to chisel away from a big list than build up from nothing.
 


Edited by teh_saccade, 27 July 2017 - 09:10 AM.

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#10 demagogue

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 09:14 AM

@teh_saccade, I was being dismissive to simplify things here, but we're well aware of what we're dealing with. Right now it's just a matter of thinking through our approach, and most of the discussion isn't happening in this thread. It's going to be a process with Valve, we'll do what we can, they'll let us know what they want as we go, and hopefully the two ends will meet and it's not a big deal.


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#11 Nightcrawler

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 02:49 PM

Legal entity will probably be in Canada, and the process to create it is relatively simple. So that's not really much of a worry now.
 
The really big task is giving Valve a report on the licensing rights for our assets.

 
You should make a well-founded decision about where to place the legal entity. Why is that?

Well, in the last few days I got interested in how Creative Common licenses work and I did some research on the Internet. I would not call me an expert on CC licenses but there is one thing I found that might cause trouble to tdm: Namely the fact that The Dark Mod uses the CC-BY-NC-SA  for the main part of their assets. Things you have to bear in mind are:

1) This license does not allow commercial use. The main problem is the lack of clarity what commercial use actually is. Now no matter what you personally define as commercial use, some countries' jurisdictions seem to have a weird definition of commercial use and might come to - hmmm let's say- interesting findings. Take this German Court's decision for example. I don't know how the Canadian Jurisdiction would define "commercial use"...
 
2) The imho more fateful consequence of choosing to include the NC module into TDM's art assets license however is this: You must not mash up content that is licensed under the CC-BY-SA license with the core TDM. That is because works licensed under CC-BY-SA can only be combined with works that bear the same license type or the freer license types CC-BY or CC-0.
 
Imho if all the content tdm is using had been placed under CC-BY-SA that would spare a lot of trouble. But I guess it's too late to switch...so you have to carefully monitor if you have content that was actually licensed under CC-BY-SA and if so either contact the copyright holder to get permission to place it under your CC-BY-NC-SA license or if that should not be possible remove it from TDM.

 


For planning purposes, any fans out there reading this now, would you volunteer to help us with this kind of work?

 

Think of going through dozens or up to 100 or 100s of assets, confirming the license status with its source as far as you can track it down.

I might be too busy for this the next two weeks but if you afterwards still need help, I'll happily volunteer.


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#12 demagogue

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Posted 29 July 2017 - 07:55 AM

- We have a pretty compelling reason to have it in Canada, greatest physical presence of mods/admins by quite a bit. And still English language.

 

- That German court decision is insane. But anyway, Steam distributes 10,000s of games, very many of them non-commercial. If someone really wanted to go after it like that, it'd be a much bigger fight than our tiny little game. We're as good faith as good faith gets. And not for nothing, TDM is, has always been, and will always be non-commercial. The whole heart and soul of our entire enterprise is not for profit but for love of the game. Anyway, I've never read about any campaign or bloodlust Canada has against indie games. Canadians are nice, eh?

 

- Yes, I'm only too aware about the crazy knots of license mixing. That, again, is a much bigger problem that could eat half of the entire software universe once it got chomping than our tiny little game that's mostly made out of assets people made on things like Photoshop and Maya in their bedrooms. We'll do our best and if they have issues we'll deal with them as they come.


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#13 athalle

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Posted 29 July 2017 - 11:05 AM

If I can help, let me know.



#14 teh_saccade

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 06:14 PM

tbh - considering what i've been hearing this past week from different people, i'm considering TDM abandonware that spreads its butter too thin on stale bread.

 

glhf.

 

out.



#15 brethren

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 10:50 AM

Stellar attitude there.  But par for the course from what I've heard.



#16 New Horizon

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 01:56 PM

tbh - considering what i've been hearing this past week from different people, i'm considering TDM abandonware that spreads its butter too thin on stale bread.

 

 

Seriously?  Abandonware after just having a pretty big release not long ago, and the next revision gearing up?  Not to mention a brand new release of the Dark Radiant editor.  What utter nonsense.


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#17 brethren

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:50 PM

He's just looking for some attention.  No one else thinks that.



#18 Judith

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 04:44 PM

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I think we’re fine here. Grand visions are cheap, everybody has them. It’s the actual tiny steps in a consistent direction that are the hardest.

 

Also, while not trying to be normative in any way (I’m definitely not the one to judge), I think we should get used to the fact that both TDM and TTLG Forums attract all kinds of peculiar people. Some just have short fuse, others may need counselling, meds, or both. That should not distract TDM team too much, nor it should lead to any doubt about the work that has been done. The progress is steady, the subsequent changes are consistent and more than welcome.


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#19 CarltonTroisi

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 01:19 PM

I think we’re fine here. Grand visions are cheap, everybody has them. It’s the actual tiny steps in a consistent direction that are the hardest.

 

Also, while not trying to be normative in any way (I’m definitely not the one to judge), I think we should get used to the fact that both TDM and TTLG Forums attract all kinds of peculiar people. Some just have short fuse, others may need counselling, meds, or both. That should not distract TDM team too much, nor it should lead to any doubt about the work that has been done. The progress is steady, the subsequent changes are consistent and more than welcome.

 

I'll admit this does seem to be the case.  After reading this forum for quite some time, I tentatively reach the same conclusion.

 

Nor am I trying to act better or "more normal," since I've got my own peculiarities.. shall spare the details for now, at any rate.

 

But what is it about these forums that leads to this?



#20 Melan

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 01:25 PM

Nothing. All forums have weird personality conflicts and occasional flameouts; some are just better at hiding it than others (and they tend to be repressive hellholes).


Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

#21 stumpy

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 08:43 AM

should have seen some of the flame wars that went on at the ttlg forum, some of them were epic lasting up to 6 months or more.



#22 chakkman

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 08:55 AM

Yes, this forum is very civilized, compared to other forums i frequent. Hell, not even the devs take offense when you ask to change, or add a feature, that's much more than i'm used to from other places or devs.  :laugh: 



#23 Amadeus

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 09:06 AM

Overall, I have to say this forum is probably my favorite place on the internet. I'm pretty quiet and don't talk much but I check these forums usually everyday. This is hands down one of the nicer corners of the hellscape that can be the internet.


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