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Keep in mind also that mission size, and complexity have increased dramatically since the beginning. For a lot of veteran mappers, it can take over a year to get a map made and released. The last dozen missions have for the most part been pretty massive, with new textures, sounds, scripts, models etc. We seem to be long past the point of people loading up the tools, and banging out a mission in a few weeks that's very barebones. We still do see some of those, but I noticed in the beta mapper forums and on Discord, that mappers seem to make these maps, but don't release them, and instead use the knowledge gained to make something even better. Could just be bias on my part scrolling through the forums and discord server though.

Hey, Every time I've try to use the Full Editor when PM'ing someone, and every single time I get an error. Whoever is in charge of the forum, is it possible that this could be fixed? Thanks Neon

I think it is a good idea! Our ingame mission downloader and mission view has long been subject of multiple improvement suggestions. Due to the sheer mass of missions that have been released in the last 15 years, things got really cluttered and especially newcomers will have a hard time finding what they want. However, improving the ingame guis is quite a task, so a web-based application might really suit this scenario well. Maybe we could even add a linke to it from our ingame menus, so user can access it quicker. Some more things to think about Would users be able to add custom tags and downvote / upvote certain tags, much like the system of Steam? This would also allow to add tags like "beautiful", or "difficult". Actually, the more users can contribute to this system, the better, because it will be automatically maintained then. The browser should also contain a flag for whether the FM belongs to a connected series of FMs or not and have the capability to go to the previous or next FM in that series. There should also be a flag for fully fledges campaigns. Some might like a flag whether or not an FM is "ghostable".

There is also a fan-made mod that allows for multiplayer Thief 2 FMs. Some of my favorite gaming moments ever have been for Thievery and multiplayer Thief 2 FMs. They're awesome, although dated now. This is part of why I want multiplayer TDM, to bring that experience back to life. Recreating TDM in a new engines would be ... a lot of work for an end product that would be a sad shell of what we have now. It's not like it's a logical impossibility; it's just the facts are against it. Where we can have a live debate, where it's not so obvious what's best and reasonable people can reasonably disagree, is for a stealth game in a different genre, whether we should fork off the TDM base or start with a new base in a new engine. And the leading candidate for that IMO is a cyberpunk stealth game. There have been at least two attempts at it as a TDM mod (not a total conversion but just mods I believe; the difference is, does it change the source code). But I don't know the status of those. I personally would like to see one made, and I think forking off the TDM base is the way to go. The main reason is because our AI code is so advanced, and that's one of the first ways that independent projects may stumble. Anyone can create good assets in a few months, but if the AI is dysfunctional, you don't have a good stealth game. People may not appreciate that the TDM code base wasn't written in just 4 years (2005 to 2009), but actually ~15 years (2005 to 2019) because of the updates. And it's kind of mind boggling how much time and work has gone into those 15 years if you actually followed it. Well, anyway, I vote for somebody to make a cyberpunk stealth game off a TDM base. And multiplayer TDM. I have spoken.

TTLG? That's Through the Looking Glass Forums. A looking glass fan community. Has been around for a long, long time. https://www.ttlg.com/forums/

It's running on a server where all clients are seeing the same events, which is the foundation of a multiplayer coop game. That's a big deal. The gameplay and aesthetics you can tweak, but getting all the underlying systems to work and playable on a server is a nice accomplishment. From what I understand of TDM's code, most systems weren't made with multiplayer in mind like he said. I don't know how relevant this is, but systems act directly on $player1 (or whatever it was) all over the place, which is the local client, and I think if it were to be multiplayer, some of those systems would have to be re-tooled from the ground up to handle possible other clients causing events in the same world. I've glanced at Tos's code for multiplayer Thief2 and got an idea of what goes into it. Multiplayer coop for TDM has always been my #1 pipedream for the game, even above standalone and soft shadows and other things that we eventually got. But I don't have any illusions about the challenges. It's not impossible, but it'd take a lot of work for a long time by a very dedicated person or small team. Nice to see this project getting somewhere with it though.

Seems to confirm: https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=5718 does it happen in the latest dev build: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/20824-public-access-to-development-versions/

No. The Aeden's staff optional objective is the hardest of the game. To point out directions here, though, is getting into an area of heavy-duty spoilers ... so I'm constrained in my response just as I was constrained in my responses to the "endless keyhunt" complaints because to show the rather simple direction would be a huge spoiler. So I had to bite my tongue and take it. Aeden's staff is different, though - harder. I've never tried a no-KO ghost playthrough. Because I'm clumsy and have slow reflexes. I think it might be possible to do a stealth no-alerts playthrough. Are you allowed to KO? I think I've gotten the staff a few times in my playthroughs without alerting the builders in that room. The only switchable lights in the FM are table lamps. The cylindrical style wall lamps aren't extinguishable. The other fire and gas wall lamps are extinguished by water. In the Ox all waiters and commoners in the common room and outside are friendlies - except for the waitress in the upper lounge which is filled with enemies. You need water arrows. Moss arrows. Rope arrows. I've never used a gas arrow in a playthrough of the FM but one would make things easier, for sure. I'm going to replay the area and check through the locations that you mentioned - the loop etc. - then if it's OK with you I'll PM you with some info, tho' I'll ask you if you want the info first. So's not to spoil it for others who get that far in the game (few and far between!). I find it almost impossible not to click the "reveal spoiler" tags and read the info ... and, y'know, spoilers do spoil the real deal.

I think the reason the dev forums exist is to provide a place where the implementation of features can be discussed without getting mixed up with other debates when someone believes what the devs are doing is wrong. We often post public discussion threads for features with subjective elements like the frob outline, because community feedback is very important. But there will always be vocal defenders with strong views for or against certain features, or how exactly it should be implemented in their opinion. At some point a decision has to be made and be carried through, which is what the dev forums are for. Almost all of the threads are very technical, basically explaining and discussing recent or potential code changes with other devs. Its hard to say. Its a hobby the devs do in their spare time, so people come and go when they're in the mood and when they have the time. The team page is mostly accurate except for some relatively newer additions like myself.

I just read@motorsep Discovered that you are able to create a brush, then select it and right click "create light". Now you have a light that ha the radius of the former brush. Just read it on discord and thought it may be of use for some people in the forums here too.

Oh boy it seems like we really have to do this... "sigh" So lets address some points to hopefully shed some light into this and structure things up (I really wanted to avoid this cause all it is going to do is costing me time that I won't be able to invest into modding). I am modder. It's what I have been doing for quite some time now with various game engines and to various degrees of project completion. A modder by definition is somebody who takes existing assets and/or code and modifies it into (hopefully) a new and interesting context which he (and eventually other players) enjoy to play. Now let's take a look at what footage I recently have "shared" with the community that sparked this discussion: Video Description: At no point in time have I claimed to have been the original creator of the map or the assets shown in the video. It was strictly a showcase about multiplayer clientside network replication (a topic very dear to me as I personally consider multiplayer game development the supreme discipline within game development). But it doesn't matter since again, I am a modder and my job is to put existing code and assets into new context and in the best case to create an (for me personally) enjoyable experience. I produce several videos a day when I do modding related work to document the progress with the vast majority of those videos never getting publicly shared. Due to time constrains most of those videos contain very few (if any) details about the source art/code used especially when they are in a WIP unreleased project state with plenty of the assets & code still being subject to change. Do I read the feedback in the community forums about the footage that I post ? Absolutely ! Does other people's feedback about my shared footage morally or legally oblige me to take it into consideration when working on my mod projects ? Absolutely not. I always have, am and will create mods for my personal satisfaction first and foremost. And even if you told me that the strong contrast in my footage melted away your retina and blinded you permanently I would probably shrug it off and ask why you kept watching it then in the first place... You don't pay my time/work on the mod nor my monthly bills so your opinion's impact could be described as "mild" at best (especially when I quote users multiple times to the optional client setup showcase without getting even a response/reply to that). The reason I share my work/footage with the community is because I firmly believe that I am not the only person longing for stealth-medieval-fantasy themed games WITH online cooperative multiplayer functionality. I always gladly will answer questions (about asset origins for example) but in this specific case and in this specific thread since the question about the map origin was already self-answered before I was able to read and reply to the question there was no point in re-answering the already answered question. Now about the "taking the drama with me from another community page": This is the demented level of commenting I have to deal with on a regular basis on that page (I specifically picked a fresh and mild one to not give that person more attention than he/she desperately seems to seek from me): I stopped posting updates on those community forums for several years now but when I updated my thread about my project with this week's footage the same trolls crept up and started again instantly trash posting. This is the plague that I wanted to avoid taking with me over to the TDS Forums because I witnessed how (also because of that constant trash/trolling drama) plenty of valuable users/modders left that community over the years basically leaving it a dead place of trolls. Some of the toxic trolls from those diseased community forums I see now commenting in my thread here at the TDS forums (hence the wording "toxic stalkers"). I really hope this post contributes to explaining the entire background so that in case similar questions by other users come up again in the future I can then simply link to it while at the same time keeping the discussion content topic related.

I just found this thread on ttlg listing Immersive Sims: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151176