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The real St. Alban was a pagan who became a celebrated religious personality, this All Saints Day 2010 The Dark Mod places its own spin on this mythical figure. Screenshots: Intro: "'Business' has been slow lately, even more so after most of my gear got snatched during a Watch raid... I've since been forced to hit the streets and pick pockets for a living. But my luck was about to change, last night I was approached by a red hooded figure with a proposition... As we sat down in a dark corner of a nearby inn, he told to me that the Builders of St. Alban's Cathedral in the Old Quarter had recently unearthed a discovery that might lead to the final resting place of some saint." " But before I do anything, I need to get my tools and stash from the evidence room at the local watch station." "with the hawks, doves will congregate they will drop honey from the cliffs wine will surge over the earth the sheep will wander harmlessly with the wolf then the wicked will rise, but to retribution" - 'scripture of St Alban' There is a new version out now, see the following thread St Albans Cathedral version 1.6 Build Time: about 2-3 months. Thanks:- Huge respect to the Dark Mod team for such a great mod and for all the hard work they put into it and continue to put into it. Special thanks to Fidcal, Serpentine and others for their help on the forums and to Testing:Ugoliant, Baddcog, Grayman, Lost soul, Bjorn and Baal (for doing all the Vp work in the town. Readables: Ungoliant and Mortemdesino for all awesome work on the readables. Resource: Fids, Grayman, Ungoliant - guis, models & images. Misc: Loren Schmidt - the author of the map I based the cathedral on. Info: # Like Thief2, some things are climable, pipes, wall vines etc.. You can also drop some of the keys, some door that are frobbabe mean there is another way inside - explore u taffer! # Due to TDM being a lot more of a resource hog than T2 I have been forced to limit the number of Ai in the mission, but they have better placement than my last mission. # On all difficulty levels the player starts with vertualy no tools/weapons, there are weapons to be found - read, read, read! # For the love of all that is holy, read the briefing otherwise you will problems completing the mission. Known issues:- # This mission will have less than optimal fps at a few points on the map, mid range DX9 card(X1900/GF7800) or higher required. # On low end PCs I recommend, V-sync is off, AA is off, Aniso is 4x or lower and that any and all background apps are closed.

Bumping this thread. I was trying to parse the code for LibreCoop recently, the multiplayer coop mod for Doom3, or Dhewm3 more exactly. The main alternative is OpenCoop, but I think LibreCoop is more developed. Anyway, it got me thinking how much work would have to go into a coop mod for TDM. It's still my biggest wish item. The idea I got was one has to basically walk system by system through the code and think about the client and server side of packet swapping. TDM has a lot more and more complicated systems than Doom3, but once you start getting a feel for it, I think the basic system doesn't change that much. In a way it reminded me a bit of a pared down save/load system, what you need to update a game state, except you're streaming it in in real game-time, and you using tricks to fill in gaps to ease the load. The other thing I noticed is that maps themselves need their scripts tweaked and anything else happening in the world. But I wonder if there's a way to procedurally do that when a map is loading, so one could just use the FM files as released. It looks like it'd take more than a year or two if one were working steadily through it, although I think one would get efficient at it over time. Like I was noticing, there's a consistent logic to it. But most of all I think it'd be worth it. I really like Thief coop, and I think it'd be great for TDM. I'm just FYI'ing about it now because I was browsing through the other coop mods. Not even soliciting opinions or anything. Just thinking aloud (avisible?) about it.

Updated patch along with new test builds. Windows: https://drive.google.com/file/d/13lQig7Yzfc_jovU2zZklxLV1QOKAjkXe/view?usp=sharing Linux/Ubuntu: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1j7DoWBKuBAFdVH2Y-2LcYsgdtJNBabmn/view?usp=sharing @stgatilov Could you please update test-frob-daftmugi? Changes in update: Bodies can be dragged instantly by holding frob and moving the mouse. Food can be eaten the same way as extinguishing a candle. (Pending) Add menu setting "Hold Frob to Use", with options: Quick (200ms) - short delay before use Delayed (400ms) - long delay before use TDM original Current design: Frob Pick up body and shoulder it (carry it) / Drop body Pick up candle/lantern and carry it / Drop candle/lantern Pick up food and carry it / Drop food Pick up an item and carry it / Drop item Hold frob (for special action) Drag body or body limbs Pinch out candle (also, pinch out candle while carrying it) Toggle lantern off/on (also, toggle lantern while carrying it) Eat food (also, eat food while carrying it) Hold frob and move mouse to instantly drag body. Addressed concerns from initial design to current design: Changed the candle behavior to pick up on frob and extinguish on held frob. Added @AluminumHaste's suggestion to allow un-shouldering a body on frob. Added @nbohr1more's suggestion to allow extinguishing a candle while holding it. Added @Skaruts's suggestion to allow instant dragging of bodies on mouse move. Tried to address @snatcher's suggestion of making the extinguish candle delay 500ms instead of 200ms. There's a planned menu setting to set it to "Quick" (200ms) or "Delayed" (400ms). Also, I hope the "instant" body dragging will work well for you. I think this is finally in a good place. It's evolved quite a lot since its initial design. I've tried to address as many concerns and suggestions as I could. Thank you everyone who gave feedback! It's much appreciated!

Personally I can see some ancillary benefits from trying to move TDM from non-commercial-libre to true-libre, beyond getting off the FOSS community's naughty list. There are a fair few indie devs who have tried to make modernized Thief-likes. None of them have done half as good a job as this community. I think that is generally down to the engine. All the detection and movement systems take a lot of time to implement, which you guys have already paid down. Imagine if those indie devs had the option to use TDM as the base for their games. More of these games would be published, and more would be successful. And this in turn would grow the public knowledge base about working in Dark Radiant and TDM. Some of those devs might make their own public FMs. Some might contribute to the wiki and documentation. Some might contribute to project maintenance or even donate new features that they develop. Personally I would call this one of the bigger things that you could do to keep the project alive. It would definitely be a big project to bring the project assets into compliance or to fork off a compliant TDM-lite. A year ago I would have said it is impossible, but AI is changing things. It can make art and it can write code, and especially when it has a working example of the thing it is recreating to learn from. It still would not be easy, but at least possible. Let this be a lesson for creators to select your licensing carefully. It is not always easy to change after the fact.

I did play Thief and FMs, but I don't play it any more, except for major things like Black Parade. The clunky movement and antiquated Dromed editor is what discouraged me from interacting with it over the years. I regularly play and sometimes make content for TDM, because it has much better movement model than Thief. I know that most missions don't use it well, but if you construct your geometry (gaps, ledges, distances) using power of two measurements, movement and mantling feels fast and snappy. There's no need for regression in that regard, in my opinion, there's a need for assets and missions made with the movement model in mind, to showcase its strengths properly. Even if TDM originally intended to "simulate the stealth gameplay of Thief, many things will be familiar to veteran Thief players" the actual mod history was a bit different. The team came up with a mission platform that has its own identity when it comes to mechanics. The way assets were made might have been a huge mistake, but that didn't prevent the platform from growing. Since you like anecdotal evidence, noone other Skacky once said that TDM movement model was super clunky, after playing The Painter's Wife. It was really hard to convince him that if a mapper places geometry this poorly, and isn't aware what spatial measurements play to the strengths of a movement model, no movement model will save his mission. And there is no fixing of this problem on the engine side, although it's not the first time when TDM team tries to address the asset problem with engine changes, which I suspect will ultimately lead to even more problems down the line. In game development, things like core mechanics and player tools are locked-down first, in one of the pre-production phases, because all the levels will be constructed around them. Making changes in core mechanics in a project this mature is very risky, I assume you don't plan on going through all playable spaces in all released TDM FMs to check for errors. Instead of making incremental changes in fundamental mechanics, I'd encourage you to create a fork, or some kind of major version bump candidate, like 3.0, where all things could be revamped: movement, player tools, UI, new frob mechanics, perhaps with UI contextual icons, new training map to incorporate all that, etc. Once all new elements fall into place and create something new, with a map or maps to back it up as relevant changes, it will be easier to convince existing player/author base that it was worth it. I assume the existing fanbase is already fragmented, as a result of all those heated discussions around the topic. But with multiple versions available for download, the transition to hypothetical "TDM 3.0" should be easier. It could be similar to UE2 and UE3, and you could also use this as an occasion to draw the line for backwards compatibility. I know there are old systems and variables kept in place just in order not to break existing missions. This way you could e.g. redo the LOD system, implement lights using math functions instead of textures, etc.

No, I remembered the old system, but I also was using my patch so I suspected at first I messed something up before I remembered that the handling of bodies and lights are so counter intuitive right now. I could easily add my own patch solution to make extinguishing lights short frob again, but I would rather see a consistent version of it in the core game! To provide some background information, I had just finished both the Cyberpunk DLC and The Outer Worlds DLCs, both of which use short-use and long-use systems too so my mindset somehow was expecting something more consistent ;).

Yeah it would be cool to see some more detailed statistics and it’s a shame they aren’t really captured. Since we are talking about fan mission platforms, where players also make the content for the game, I feel like the best thing we’ve got is you can look at the number of content releases for the games. Keep in mind the graph counts campaigns as single missions - so for example NHAT and TBP both count as 1 mission. A good year for TDM has has approaching maybe 50% - mostly we’re 25-30%. https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152494 You could also look at the number of ratings thief missions get on https://www.thiefguild.com/ vs TDM ones, but that is pretty iffy in that you could chalk that up to more awareness of the site in the thief community than TDM Out of curiosity is there a reason a thief player can’t be a new player? I kind of think a player is a player and new players would be ones who are playing the dark mod who weren't? Is there disagreement the base of players most likely to pick up the game are fans of the thief games? They are certainly the most fruitful place to find feedback on the game beyond the sphere of this forum that I have seen. When we were trying to finish up SLL there was a lot of discussion on the forums about how long it had been since there was a release for the game. I am thankful that the stats show at least some stability over the years in terms of releases for TDM, but the trend for all of the games is decline. Not doing anything is a valid response if that’s what the devs want to do - it is not possible to provide evidence that any effort will slow that inertia. As a player and content maker I would just prefer trying to find feedback where it is offered from players who were willing to try the game but ultimately could not engage with it and see if there is anything that can be done within reason to ease them into the game. The game has a lot to offer imo. All those players are potential contributors - contributions in turn attract players - it’d be nice to see the cycle go on as long as it can.

Welcome to the forums Ansome! And congrats on making it to beta phase!

At first I thought it was some wild precision bug but it looks like the skin might be nonsolid somehow and SteveL's change made the nonsolid attribute work? Either that or skin detection is somehow borked in this map. Feel free to edit the map, I'm no expert mapper but I might be able to perform some workaround by manipulating the entity. Edit: I fixed it with the following change: // entity 4 { "classname" "atdm:mover_door" "name" "atdm_mover_door_8" "lock_picktype" "-" "lock_pins" "0" "locked" "1" "solid" "1" "model" "atdm_mover_door_8" "origin" "710 -248 2050" "rotate" "0 90 0" "snd_close" "door_shut_06" "snd_open" "door_open_08" "used_by" "Balcony_door_keey" // "skin" "door_007_1" // primitive 0 Will upload the fix to the mission database. I don't see anything wrong with the door_007_1 skin but I would advise testing it in-game before using it going forward until this is fully sorted. Edit 2: The updated mission is now available in the mission database. Feel free to offer other fixes to this mission as long as they do not: Change visuals Change gameplay design ( Any purely bugged things that the mission author acknowledges "needs fixing" such as keys that are inaccessible or critical items that fall through surfaces when touched, etc can be fixed by any mapper and submitted for validation by the team. )

In which way do you think that the changes made to mantling and leaning will "encourage new players"? I don't see anything about the old systems which would be a hindrance, or a discourage for people getting into the game. Anyway, my main issue with this and other things which have been pushed here quite aggressively lately is something different. But, that's something the core team of the mod should address (and know), and is probably not something to discuss here in public (and not up to me anyway). I'm in good faith that it will be addressed, because, I don't think it can go on much longer like this.

Announcing the release of the third William Steele mission! Summary Cleighmoor takes Steele inside Cleighmoor Gaol, where Warden Fielder likes nothing better than a glass of wine and some cheese, while watching a miscreant hang from his gallows. Steele is tracking down the evidence of his parents’ murder. The mission starts in the sewers, and progresses to Cleighmoor’s compound. The William Steele Missions Cleighmoor is the third of several Steele missions. Altogether they'll tell a story of corruption, greed, and revenge. At some point, I'll start packaging them as a campaign, in addition to the single missions. If you haven’t played WS1: In the North, or WS2: Home Again, I suggest you complete those before playing WS3: Cleighmoor. Download Cleighmoor is available in the in-game downloader. Problem with Suicidal AI Occasionally, someone reports that a distant AI commits suicide. Since one of the mission objectives is to kill only in self-defense, this fails the mission when it occurs. To avoid that, I've created a replacement *.map file that you can obtain here. After you've downloaded and installed the mission, create a new folder named "maps" so that you have: darkmod/fms/ws3_cleighmoor/maps/ Unzip the replacement *.map file and place the new *.map file into the maps folder. So now you have: darkmod/fms/ws3_cleighmoor/maps/ws3_cleighmoor.map This should solve the suicide problem. A new version of the mission will be released after TDM 2.05. Build Time Nearly 4 years. (This was my first attempt at a mission, and it sat on the back burners until being folded into Steele’s story.) I18n Cleighmoor is ready for translation. Thanks Thanks to the TDM team for creating a terrific platform for storytelling and stealth gaming. Thanks to my beta testers: AluminumHaste, Bikerdude, Goldwell, Xarg, Lux, Moonbo, Deadlove, and plotzzz. Thanks to Goldwell for his voice work on the conversations. And thanks to YOU, for playing! Known Issues This is a large mission. To ease the burden on older systems, consider shutting doors behind you as you go. If you experience low frame rates, please consult the Performance Tweaks page on the Wiki. Performance Tweaks For very low end PCs I recommend the following settings: V-sync is off AA is off Aniso is 4x or lower Advanced settings are simple/default Post processing is disabled Anyone having performance issues with TDM missions can put the following cvars into their Darkmod.cfg file. This will improve the framerate and stutter/chop when in-game, but may increase loading times a little. image_usePrecompressedTextures "1" image_useNormalCompression "2" image_useAllFormats "1" image_useCompression "1" image_preload "1" Important This mission requires TDM 2.01 or later. The William Steele story is heavy with readables. Please try to read every readable you find. Most importantly, Enjoy! Screenshots WS4: The Warrens Steele ventures into The Warrens, a dangerous area near Bridgeport's docks. You can find it here.

I just want to thank for this neat mission design. Enjoyed every corner and every detail. Its a hobby to check for new TDM Fan missions Great mission, although I used noclip sometimes because I play for fun Thanks!

I tried the beta yesterday in the Training Mission. The new frob system is very nice. It's very easy now to pick up a body (obviously), and, the manipulation of limbs is easy as well (although it will surely take some time for me to get used to it, simply because I'm so used to the old system). Not so excited about some other changes. The leaning, for example, while improving the viewing angle of the player, feels a bit unrealistic. I know, the new system is closer to the one in the original game, but, I don't know if any of you tried to lean in real life. No way any human being could lean so wide, unless it's tied to a rubber band. I get it, gameplay isn't always about realism (actually, in most cases, it isn't), but, I think a game shouldn't feel too arcade-y, and, this definitely does feel arcade. And, I always liked Dark Mod for its rather realistic movement. Same with the new mantling. I don't know what you felt was wrong with the mantling before, but, this new, faster system just feels arcade. The mantling was already very quick compared to what a human is capable in real life, but, the new system even exaggerates that. Yes, it feels smooth and fast, but, I prefer a bit of realism. So, yeah, rather a 1 out of 3 out of the systems I mentioned which I feel like is an improvement. The leaning and mantling, I rather consider setback. I think this is, in general, a bit "bleeding edge" in terms of gameplay changes. I really didn't feel like mantling and leaning needed an improvement, for example, and, it might make a change for missions which were designed with the original gameplay.

New script for mappers: my flavour of a fog density fading script. To add this to your FM, add the line "thread FogIntensityLoop();" to your map's void main() function (see the example in fogfade.script) and set "fog_fade" "1" on each foglight to enable script control of it. Set "fog_intensity_multiplier" on each info_location entity to change how thick the fog is in that location (practically speaking it's a multiplier for visibility distance). Lastly, "fog_fade_speed" on each foglight determines how quickly it will change its density. The speed scales with the current value of shaderParm3, using shaderParm3 = 1000 as a baseline. So i.e. if shaderParm is currently at 1/10th of 1000, then fade speed will be 1/10th as fast. Differences to Obsttorte's script: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/14394-apples-and-peaches-obsttortes-mapping-and-scripting-thread/&do=findComment&comment=310436 my script uses fog lights you created, rather than creating one for you. Obsttorte's script will delete the foglight if entering a fogfree zone and recreate it later more than one fog light can be controlled (however, no per-fog-light level of control) adding this to the map requires adding a line to your void main() script, rather than adding an info_locations_settings entity with a custom scriptobject spawnarg in my script, mappers set a multiplier of fog visibility distance (shaderParm3), while in Obsttorte's script a "fog_density" spawnarg is used as an alternative to shaderParm3 smaller and less compactly written script fogfade.scriptfogfade.map

I never figured out how to multi quote here, so I numbered your answers and will refer to them below: 1) Adding the female player assets to the core mod will be a lot of work then that could only be done by core members. 2) I don't believe that. Who is throwing food instead of junk? With your permission I would like to add this to my patch. 3) The latter is out of the question, do you think Obsttorte could fix the script to handle the issues? Should I ask him :)? 4) I basically agree with you, would this be easy to add to the core game or at least my patch? To make it consistent... 5) But why should there be a water arrow tip in some bathroom? At least some shafts should be added as suggested. 6) So how did you and Obsttorte like the new Thief 4? Because the animation and the sound are obviously similar ;)!

The devs didn't title this thread, and @datiswous said they're attempting to mislead people by using Russell's name and a retro style to make it resemble Thief, which is cynical. I grew up on forums like I'm sure anyone who likes a game from '98 did. I actually left the Discord immediately after joining it because it was more off-topic doom-posting than anything relevant to the mod. I thought the forums might be better, but it's mostly just grown men yelling at clouds and telling strangers how mature they are, and a few brave souls actually developing anything. Depressing place, I'll just stick to enjoying new missions every 6 months without an account.

True, but, 1. this thread is called "Western stealth FPS with Stephen Russell", and, 2. nothing you said changes anything for me. The gameplay still doesn't look like something I'd enjoy. And, if you really think this forum is cynical, then you don't visit forums much. Actually, the majority of the users are are pretty mature, unlike in other forums.

We didn't make the holidays (such a busy time of year) so here's a New Year's gift, an unusual little mission. Window of Opportunity Recover an item for a regretful trader out in a wilderness setting, and discover more! Available within the in-game mission downloader or: Download: http://www.thedarkmo...ndetails/?id=79 Alternative: https://drive.google...WTMzQXZtMVFBSG8 Some unorthodox gameplay on regular/ghost difficulties. (Arachnophobes might prefer short mode...) Please expect to need your lantern in regular and ghost modes! Short ("easy") mode is a smaller map, so if you are looking for areas others reference below, or 100% of the loot, you'll need to play on another mode. I wanted to create my first mission before I became influenced by too many others' ideas, and limited myself to what has been done before. As such, this mission is not set in a city/town, and has some features that are likely to be provocative. There's a section some really like, which others don't, either way I kept it short to not last too long. That being said, I hope you do find it fun! :-) Special thanks to those who provided valuable testing and feedback: Goldwell, Kyyrma, plotzzz, 161803398874989, PPoe & Bikerdude (who also contributed a sound). (Please remember spoiler tags to not expose things meant to be discovered by playing.) Like so: [spoiler]secrets[/spoiler] If you are having trouble finding the main objective, here's what to pay attention to in the mission for hints: There is a spot it's possible to get stuck on the ground in the corner by the cliff/rockfall where there's a rope laying on the ground, please take care if you poke around there!

I can see that as a design choice, but the practical problem is pretty striking: If you're looking at a readable and an AI mutters something nearby, the subtitles will cover the text on your readable. It's the game's equivalent of someone putting their palm in front of your face while you're reading a book. Since subtitles are secondary, layering behind readables would make sense... or even better, disable subtitles while readables or the inventory menu are open.

Announcing the release of the second William Steele mission! Summary Home Again takes place in Bridgeport when Steele returns home from the north. He finds that something terrible has happened, and he must begin a quest to find the perpetrator and why he did it. Most of this mission is spent on the rooftops. The William Steele Missions Home Again is the second of several Steele missions. Altogether they'll tell a story of corruption, greed, and revenge. At some point, I'll start packaging them as a campaign, in addition to the single missions. If you haven't played WS1: In the North, I suggest you start with that, then come here. Download Home Again is available through the in-game downloader. Build Time 16 months. I18n Home Again is ready for translation. Thanks Thanks to the TDM team for creating a terrific platform for storytelling and stealth gaming. Thanks to my beta testers: AluminumHaste, Bikerdude, Mr. Tibbs, Xarg, lowenz, Lux, plotzzz, and Deadlove. Thanks to Goldwell for providing voice work for a key part of the story. And thanks to YOU, for playing! Known Issues This is a large mission. To ease the burden on older systems, consider shutting doors and windows behind you as you go. Some players have experienced savegame crashes when playing large missions with TDM 2.01. This problem is under investigation. Until it’s corrected, I suggest you make frequent saves. There are a few spots where long sight lines will cause framerate drops, possibly even pauses. My apologies to anyone who experiences these. If you experience low frame rates, please consult the Performance Tweaks page on the Wiki. Performance Tweaks For very low end PCs I recommend the following settings: V-sync is offAA is offAniso is 4x or lowerAdvanced settings are simple/defaultPost processing is disabledAnyone having performance issues with TDM missions can put the following cvars into their Darkmod.cfg file. This will improve the framerate and stutter/chop when in-game, but may increase loading times a little. image_usePrecompressedTextures "1" image_useNormalCompression "2" image_useAllFormats "1" image_useCompression "1" image_preload "1"Important This mission requires TDM 2.01 or later. I rely heavily on readables to tell Steele's story. Please try to read every readable you find. Most Importantly, Enjoy! Screenshots WS3: Cleighmoor Steele's story continues with Cleighmoor, which you can find here.

100% correct. Also, in some cases, you might want to create a named save and then revert to your latest quicksave. This would not be possible of quickload were always to load the latest save. @CrisiusXIII now that you know how typical saving systems work, I suggest to use this very easy workaround: After creating a named save, either remember next time that your latest save was a named save and load that the regular way, or simply create a quicksave after the named save. However, then I would ask, why would you even create that named save in the first place?

Beta 11 Fix finished-on state auto-update was unreliable Slighty improve scanner title/author detect Tags are now named some whatever regular-version-looking thing to force GitHub to put the newest at the top