Things that could be improved

[LEGION]

Sorry, but again about the torches: In NHAT1/3, that first torch in the staircase to the belltower, I only could extinguish it via shooting the torch, not the fire! So, it´s completely different from my experience with the torches in Heart. Is it different because of the flame-placement made by the mapper? At what am I intended to shoot? I hate it to waste precious water-arrows...

 

Oh, and about the food-healing: it is 1 or 5 hp´s, right? I would like to see that value increased...

Edited September 22, 2010 by LEGION

[Serpentine]

Sorry, but again about the torches: In NHAT1/3, that first torch in the staircase to the belltower, I only could extinguish it via shooting the torch, not the fire! So, it´s completely different from my experience with the torches in Heart. Is it different because of the flame-placement made by the mapper? At what am I intended to shoot? I hate it to waste precious water-arrows...

It could have been manually constructed with a torch static and flame/light entity, the flame could have been placed inside the torch model and as such has a chance of not being hit by the water. Normal and commonly placed torch entities which spawn the flame correctly are unlikely to have this problem. Shooting at the torch itself will have a much lower success rate than shooting to shower it.

 

Oh, and about the food-healing: it is 1 or 5 hp´s, right? I would like to see that value increased...

I really don't understand this cultural concept that eating food heals wounds. The 1hp is there for no real reason and is not intended to act as some kind of important gameplay mechanic, a quirk if you will (and for more on this topic see : here). I'd also like baking and gardening implemented in TDM.

[Sotha]

I really don't understand this cultural concept that eating food heals wounds. The 1hp is there for no real reason and is not intended to act as some kind of important gameplay mechanic, a quirk if you will (and for more on this topic see : here). I'd also like baking and gardening implemented in TDM.

 

Heh. LEGION, if you decide to start mapping, I'm pretty sure you can use the versatile stim/response system to your advantage and create the magic healing turnips if you want to.

[LEGION]

I just want alternate ways for healing little injuries away from the potions.

[Melan]

I really don't understand this cultural concept that eating food heals wounds. The 1hp is there for no real reason and is not intended to act as some kind of important gameplay mechanic, a quirk if you will (and for more on this topic see : here). I'd also like baking and gardening implemented in TDM.

I could bake bread in Ultima and damn right I did. A lot!

[Sotha]

I could bake bread in Ultima and damn right I did. A lot!

 

Heh.. Stim&response system!

• A patch of flour + water stim -> dough.
• Dough and rolling pin have a custom stim so that touching the dough with a moveable rolling pin makes the dough into flat dough.
• Frobbing the flat dough transforms it into a raw bread.
• Fire stim transforms the raw bread into ready bread.
• Fire stim transforms the ready bread into burned bread. The fire response on the ready bread should should activate only after a while so the bread gets burned only if it's too long in the firestim.

Fire stim could be replaced with a special oven stim and fire stim might result directly in the burned bread.

 

I wonder when we have FM's where the player has to gather ingredients to make an alchemical concontion or a potion according to a clue recipe. Like in monkey island 2 there was the one chapter where Guybrush had to make the correct concontion for the ship to arrive at the island.

[Summer]

Don't take this the wrong way as we appreciate feedback and I do understand these suggestions are well intended.

 

It wasn't 'abandoned' it was a specific design choice by the team.

 

 

Thanks for the info, Fidcal. I understand - and I've actually gotten used to it already. I was just wandering if it was something "in development" . It's a challenge to move bodies arounf quickly and effectively - which is what Thief games and TDM are all about IMO.

 

And Legion, yep, it was an intense moment! Playing TDM has awoken that feeling again. I don't get that from OMs so much anymore... Sad, but true. But now, thanks to TDM, I can experience the thrill of having to work fast and professional again to not get caught .

 

Summer

[LEGION]

What do you think about out-knocked guards recover consciousness after 20/30 minutes on highest difficulty and raising the alarm? Or how long should unconsciousness last after being blackjacked if you want it real?

I think of a special path all the guards will do then instead of their normal route, if that is achievable by the mapper...

[Midnight]

This has been discussed before. Enjoy!

[Melan]

There was something like that in NOLF2. I ended up gunning down guards to make sure they stayed put. The game also had respawning AI to "maintain tension". Ugh. Not a good way to make a stealth game.

[Shadowhide]

I want some snow resources :textures,snowy trees ect..

[LEGION]

This has been discussed before. Enjoy!

 

Thanks for the link, now I see that it would be not worth the effort and also not realistic according to Mortems info about the blackjack-contents...

 

There was something like that in NOLF2. I ended up gunning down guards to make sure they stayed put. The game also had respawning AI to "maintain tension". Ugh. Not a good way to make a stealth game.

 

Yes, that is the reason I thought of it as a feature for the highest difficulty, where you aren´t allowed to kill people. But for the spawning thing: I thought of barracks where guards are sleeping at the beginning and wake up and do their duty at a specific time, and still present and not yet blackjacked guards go to bedtime...

[Summer]

If I'm the only one who thinks this, feel free to tell me to shove it.

 

The sounds of the spiders: They really sound a lot like the old zombies from Thief. I always confuse them. Can't tell you how long I waited around the corner in the beginning of the Rift, expecting to see zombies lunge towards me... And then I found spiders. Hmm...

 

Is that how their sounds are going to remain? Don't get me wrong: If the intent is to instill fear, mission accomplished! In that respect they're awesome. I guess it sounds weird to suggest they should sound more realistic or animalistic (is that even a word?) since there aren't any giant spiders in real life - thank the Builder!!!

 

I could've sworn I had an actual point to make when I started writing this...

[Mr Lemony Fresh]

Yep, should sound more like a hiss with perhaps a bubbly undertone than a raspy release of air.

 

Not that it's not THAT indistinguishable but hey, it could be better.

Edited September 30, 2010 by Mr Lemony Fresh

[Trickster]

Just noticed this while playing through T1 Calendra´s Cistern.

When locpicking doors in TDM, having auto open enabled, opening doors are being blocked by player, so i have to step back, click theb again, and doors are going to close first, then another click opens them fully. In T1, partially open doors, when unblocked by player, going to full open at another click. It saves one click.

Not an issue by any means, just the last thing that works more reasonably in Thief than in TDM.

When not considering i have to de-select lockpick first, though.

[Fidcal]

Interesting. Sounds like maybe stop_when_blocked should be 0 by default not 1.

 

http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Doors#Doors_Collision.2FPush_Behaviour

[demagogue]

Then the door shoves you out of the way (doesn't it?), which is a bad idea IMO. Lockpicking is often in a trafficked area, so it's likely to push you into an exposed place or pin you.

 

The problem here is that you have a rock/hard-place design choice. When a door is stopped by block or frob, re-frobbing it can either close it or open it, with bad side effects either way. If it closes, then you have to triple-frob in the lockpick-block case to open it. But if it opens, then it screws the player up when he starts opening a door, sees an AI coming, stops it and wants to close it, but has to completely open it to do that, exposing himself. If you had to pick one, I still think it's better to pick the "closes after stop" route, acknowledging that it's an unfortunate side-effect in the lockpick case.

 

Another way out of this dilemma would be if the door distinguished between being stopped by blocking and by frobbing, so the next frob after a block opens it, but the next frob after a "stop"-frob is to close it, and the door doesn't just shove you out of the way. It still stops when blocked. That might be better. But if it doesn't distinguish how it's stopped, then you have the above dilemma and I think it's better as it is now.

[Fidcal]

Yes, good point. Also, it might mean you can't shut a door at all if it is blocked by something you can't move.

 

(the push player thing is a separate thing in that section I linked too.)

[Tels]

Then the door shoves you out of the way (doesn't it?), which is a bad idea IMO. Lockpicking is often in a trafficked area, so it's likely to push you into an exposed place or pin you.

 

The problem here is that you have a rock/hard-place design choice. When a door is stopped by block or frob, re-frobbing it can either close it or open it, with bad side effects either way. If it closes, then you have to triple-frob in the lockpick-block case to open it. But if it opens, then it screws the player up when he starts opening a door, sees an AI coming, stops it and wants to close it, but has to completely open it to do that, exposing himself. If you had to pick one, I still think it's better to pick the "closes after stop" route, acknowledging that it's an unfortunate side-effect in the lockpick case.

 

Another way out of this dilemma would be if the door distinguished between being stopped by blocking and by frobbing, so the next frob after a block opens it, but the next frob after a "stop"-frob is to close it, and the door doesn't just shove you out of the way. It still stops when blocked. That might be better. But if it doesn't distinguish how it's stopped, then you have the above dilemma and I think it's better as it is now.

 

Or one could:

 

* not use auto-open (I think this issue only happens in this case?)

* we implement door-manipulation wit the mousewheel ala penumbra?

 

Then you could pick the door, then "grab it", then open it slowly.

[anton_es]

i have a small suggestion: it nags me that when I lean right I always have to go back into the normal position to use lean left. I can't do it in one swing: lean left - lean right. instead I have to: lean left - release - wait for middle position - lean right

Edited October 3, 2010 by anton_es

[pusianka]

Hello! I'm new here but I already tried all the fan missions that are said to be more amazing then others. Now here is the list of things I'd like to see when it comes to the improvents some of those maybe already exist but I need to make sure. ( I am planning to start making missions during the winter break. ):

 

1. I would love to see ravens(or owls) flying away from the trees, roof tops or fences when approaching.

2. Guards/people reaction when small animals move. Good thing to make diversion.

3. More AI conversations which can be a source of vaulable info. ( that's actually to mappers )

 

now harder part:

 

4. Are you planning to make the animations of our thief? Don't answer, just pls do it .

5. Multi! Since you're not creating the campaign. Multi will make this game so damn sweet!

6. Less lags. Less bugs( e. g. Saves )

7. Pls change thief's shoes. I mean! No wonder our footsteps are so loud!

 

Oh and to finish:

 

Great work. This mod is real masterpiece, when it comes to atmosphere and gameplay. I would believe if someone told me it's made by well known company.

Keep it up!

Edited October 3, 2010 by pusianka

[Fidcal]

Thanks for feedback pusianka. Look forward to your FMs. Here's a start tutorial if you don't already know... http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=A_-_Z_Beginner_Full_Guide_Start_Here%21

 

 

• 
   
  
• 1. Flying creatures: Lot of work. Low priority. No plans in near future.
  
• 2. Rats: Can already change team relations if you want AI to attack rats in any maps you make.
  
• 3. Spoken conversations: Needs recording and acting skills plus actors plus good recording equipment plus knowledge of how to set it up in game so not for most mappers. The majority will not do it because of the difficulties and time involved - witness the low proportion of Thief FMs that have spoken custom conversations.
  
• 4. There will be no official support for 3rd person gameplay.
  
• 5. We do plan to support campaigns and multi-hubs some day. Just
  need more people helping.

[stumpy]

the only problem with multiplayer is that everyone will want to play the thief. as multi doesn't define what you mean multiplayer or hubs.

Edited October 3, 2010 by stumpy

[pusianka]

What about the shoes? xD will you change them?

 

when it comes to thief animations. Well I would start paying attention to this one.

 

1. Third person gaming in games like thief(TDM) is more natural for gamer since first person is only natural for us in real world where we feel our body and the distances.

2. Multiplayer games are the future of gaming, it's much nicer to share adrenaline and thrilling moments with a friend. In that case the animations of the thief has to be done.

3. You can take a lot of animations from guards, don't you?

4. Finally if you don't want to make animations then pls disable the mirror reflections for thief.

 

From all those points I would like you to pay attetion to the second one. I think it could seriously improve gameplay and get more players, fans and probably co-workers.

[taaaki]

What about the shoes? xD will you change them?

 

when it comes to thief animations. Well I would start paying attention to this one.

 

1. Third person gaming in games like thief(TDM) is more natural for gamer since first person is only natural for us in real world where we feel our body and the distances.

2. Multiplayer games are the future of gaming, it's much nicer to share adrenaline and thrilling moments with a friend. In that case the animations of the thief has to be done.

3. You can take a lot of animations from guards, don't you?

4. Finally if you don't want to make animations then pls disable the mirror reflections for thief.

 

From all those points I would like you to pay attetion to the second one. I think it could seriously improve gameplay and get more players, fans and probably co-workers.

 

1. TBH, I don't really think this is a good idea and I don't agree with the statement. In my personal experiences, I've found first person to be far more natural than third person. In my opinion, third person feels too much like you are controlling a puppet using strings and ends up being "clunky". The player's model also obscures what is in front of you and the 3rd person view doesn't allow you to examine the environment as easily as first person where you can get up close and personal with everything. Third person works better in more action orientated, games such as Prince of Persia, where the details of the environment don't really matter. Whereas in TDM, you want to be able to search the room and find a key hidden under a flower pot. The zoomed perspective of third person wouldn't really suit this. It would probably also mess with the wonderful object frobbing/manipulation in TDM since your body would obscure the object. I've also found that the brain learns the dimensions of the player very quickly. Just take an example such as jumping from a ledge at the very last second to maximise the distance of your jump. I was terrible at this when I first played the training mission, but it took half an hour at most for me to get it right every attempt.

 

 

2. Multiplayer is a biiiig can of worms in a thief-like genre.

 

Co-op: do you split loot/pickups or have a shared loot/pickups? saving and loading (do you allow it and if you do, how do you synchronise saves with minimal disruption to play)? It will get a bit frustrating if the other player is a dunce and keeps alerting the guards while you are trying to carefully sneak by a guard post undetected. It also affects the way mappers design their maps.

 

Thief vs. guard: to me, TDM is a slow-paced game, so I would imagine this could get rather boring for either of the parties.

 

4. The mirror reflection does look a bit daft, but overall, this is a very minor complaint and I tend to just chuckle and move on.