Things that could be improved

[New Horizon]

Imagine something like this...but probably a bit smaller since it has to hang on our characters belt.

 

 

There is a 'metal hood' that is lowered and raised to reveal the candle light within. It's a mechanical device and as such is spring loaded and requires two hands to operate. A cloth would likely burn.

[LEGION]

Alright, thanks for being patient with me and explaining. We could still argue if it´s possible to operate the lantern while holding little objects like candle, well, a candle is not the best example due to it´s purpose, but other things like objects to throw.

Also, when reading books you can toggle the lantern, but the book is then put away, at least the stationary ones. I don´t know atm how it is with inventory-readables, but I assume the lantern wouldn´t toggle on.

Well, it´s not very important. I just wished very often that I could toggle the lantern on & off while moving crates or bodies and so on, but you explained now it´s not realistic and so I´m fine with that.

[Diego]

Why do these discussions always ends on the 'realism' argument? Following this argument we couldn't be playing a game where we are invisible in the shade

[Midnight]

Why do these discussions always ends on the 'realism' argument?

I think a 'realistic' argument in this case is more along the lines of... "There's more important things to be working on".

[LEGION]

Why do these discussions always ends on the 'realism' argument? Following this argument we couldn't be playing a game where we are invisible in the shade

 

When I turn down the brightness on my beloved TV it feels very realistic that I can´t be seen! again.

[Fidcal]

Yes one can come up with explanations either way. My guess is that a shouldered body works technically similarly to having an inventory item but fixed like carrying a junk item in front. So technically it follows you cannot use the inventory while you are erm.. using the inventory. I don't recall the internal discussion but if there was one it might have been something like it generally makes sense to not use inventory items so why try and find a way to fix what makes no sense and leave it at that. Whereas I think mantling with a body was actively disabled (seems I can do that in Thief though.)

 

Anyway, I think what I'm saying is that it could be argued either way (eg more interesting gameplay to have to drop a body to turn off your light) and it might need some clever code (ie work) to get around so if it was not implemented a couple of years ago there is almost no chance now so it's about as academic as it can get.

[LEGION]

I´m very much for realism because of immersion and as long as it don´t gets annoying, everything is fine. Additional we could think about differences in difficulty or even make options for it, if you think it would be worth it...

 

Another one: What do you think about a slightly refilling health-meter? Additional the refill-rate could depend on chosen difficulty. IMHO the health-potions are meant for bad injuries or tight situations, I think that´s how mappers place them. So, if a player get´s hurt falling down or doing sth stupid he won´t have to waste a rare health potion and fear that he might need it later more badly and thinks about, nah, I better reload.

And what about health benefits from food?

[lost_soul]

I would love to see health benefits from food, but health regeneration sounds too much like modern mainstream games... blehh. (no offense meant)

 

With any form of health regeneration, if I get in a tight spot, I can just walk away and let the health recover.

[Springheel]

Food already does add to your health; it's just a very small amount.

[LEGION]

Really every eatable? It must be then very low, I have to test again...

 

And about the regeneration: It should be really slow, maybe only for the above 40 or 30 %. I don´t think most players are willing to spent, say, 10 minutes to save a healing potion. And even if they do, I would like to have it. It makes the game more forgiving for stupid mistakes and maybe helps avoid the need for reload when sth went stupidly wrong...

[New Horizon]

Really every eatable? It must be then very low, I have to test again...

 

And about the regeneration: It should be really slow, maybe only for the above 40 or 30 %. I don´t think most players are willing to spent, say, 10 minutes to save a healing potion. And even if they do, I would like to have it. It makes the game more forgiving for stupid mistakes and maybe helps avoid the need for reload when sth went stupidly wrong...

 

Sorry. No health regeneration. We already have food regeneration, and health potions.

[DeTeEff]

What about health diminishing? Eating a rancid turnip and suffer some damage over a period of time...Just kidding...

 

Nah, as I (almost) always avoids fighting and consider a detection by the guards as a total failure and always reloads, the health isn't an issue to me. Yes there are points where you take damage from falls, but that's not often...

Edited September 19, 2010 by Fieldmedic

[Sotha]

What about health diminishing? Eating a rancid turnip and suffer some damage over a period of time...Just kidding...

 

Well, the mapper could set this up relatively easy, if the damage effect works the way I'm thinking. You only need a trigger_timer which targets a stim effect damage for the player. Not tested that, though. Would make a cool poisoning effect: "you've been poisoned and lose 1 health per minute. Find the local doctor and break into his house for antidote.."

 

Nah, as I (almost) always avoids fighting and consider a detection by the guards as a total failure and always reloads, the health isn't an issue to me. Yes there are points where you take damage from falls, but that's not often...

 

That's how I played the original thief games. Try playing without save/load -roulette sometime. It really brings the experience to the next level as you have to deal with consequences. It's still relatively easy to escape with flashbombs and the worst thing you'll get is that the guards wander around their swords out.

[LEGION]

Well, the mapper could set this up relatively easy, if the damage effect works the way I'm thinking. You only need a trigger_timer which targets a stim effect damage for the player. Not tested that, though. Would make a cool poisoning effect: "you've been poisoned and lose 1 health per minute. Find the local doctor and break into his house for antidote.."

That was in the Thief2-FM A Keeper of the Prophecies and I HATED it!! (Because it was not over after you reached the doctor) Never was able to save the redhead after I

came back through time

and so I abandoned the Mission-pack, though it was really well done and had a nice designed town and even nicer designed cathedral. Also the third mission was unusual, refreshing and very hard, but still one should play that at least once. For later I made a note to only play Enterprise that was a very, very good mission and the only of that pack that I want to play again. The rest was too high paced for my taste...

 

That's how I played the original thief games. Try playing without save/load -roulette sometime. It really brings the experience to the next level as you have to deal with consequences. It's still relatively easy to escape with flashbombs and the worst thing you'll get is that the guards wander around their swords out.

So how well did you on Escape? Oh, I have to add that I played with the enhanced Difficulty-patch that is available on TheCircle and that made this mission REALLY hard, for me at least. That´s the only mission I yelled at Thief.

Edited September 19, 2010 by LEGION

[DeTeEff]

This reminds me that I really should get my ass back and finish the last level in Thief 1! I've only scraped the surface of it and damn, I will have to put some effort into this one! A lot of cluncy floors and those praying mantises all around I'm going for a no-kill run...just KO: s

[LEGION]

Escape is much harder than the last mission. Then you never saw Thief1´s ending cutscene? Or couldn´t you resist and watched the avi-file? Eh? After that you should play Calendra´s Legacy for Thief2, the third mission of that campaign is made for the fans of Thief1/2´s cutscenes...

[STiFU]

Sorry. No health regeneration. We already have food regeneration, and health potions.

Oh yes, no "XBOX-ifying" of this beautiful game please!!!!!!!!!!

 

Try playing without save/load -roulette sometime. It really brings the experience to the next level as you have to deal with consequences. It's still relatively easy to escape with flashbombs and the worst thing you'll get is that the guards wander around their swords out.

I do "No Saves" very often after the first playthrough. I also turn off the lightgem then, as it's mostly unnecessary anyway. You can tell pretty well how visible you are most of the time and disabling it makes it a little more intrusive. However, the occasional Crash of Dark Mod makes this playstyle a little frustrating at times, so that one might wish for an periodic autosave. So sometimes I just loosen the rule to "No Reloads until death", but pressing f5 occasionally really downgrades the experiences.

[LEGION]

I don´t want to XBOXify anything, I just thought it´s more realistic for little injuries instead using a 'health potion'...

 

Actually I invented the habit to save on area-changes, like checkpoints. Yeah, that´s maybe a XBOX-word too, but I don´t even have a XBOX, okay?

 

Oh, and I too play without lightgem, for that purpose I have the playershadow activated. It´s not like in Thief where you never could tell if that shadow there will hide you or not...

Edited September 19, 2010 by LEGION

[Baddcog]

What about health diminishing? Eating a rancid turnip and suffer some damage over a period of time...Just kidding...

 

I put 'Tree Beast Steaks' in L4D (t2) and they took health. I thought it was funny but I think alot of people got pissed of. lol.

Why would you try to eat a big slab of wood anyway?

[LEGION]

Because of the word 'Steak' I would say. I bet all that tried to eat that were Americans...

[Melan]

But in L4D, you were playing as a skeleton! A skeleton eating a slab of wood - wut?!

[Summer]

Whereas I think mantling with a body was actively disabled (seems I can do that in Thief though.)

 

Anyway, I think what I'm saying is that it could be argued either way (eg more interesting gameplay to have to drop a body to turn off your light) and it might need some clever code (ie work) to get around so if it was not implemented a couple of years ago there is almost no chance now so it's about as academic as it can get.

 

 

In the OMs it was a good thing to be able to mantle while carrying a body. Has this idea been abandoned for TDM completely or might it pop up on a later update?

 

When first discovering I couldn't mantle while carrying a body I was in a well-lit hall after having knocked a guard out. I just could mantle onto a box and then lean forward or anywhere really to get at the body. It was time-consuming and problematic. It could be challenging, I guess, for future efforts (knowing better now) - but I would still like to see this feature make a comeback (or is it first time...? hmm....).

 

Summer

[Fidcal]

Don't take this the wrong way as we appreciate feedback and I do understand these suggestions are well intended.

 

It wasn't 'abandoned' it was a specific design choice by the team. The team had to make hundreds of such choices and there were very lengthy discussions and yes, fights, to make the best choices we could. The whole world was free to join us and contribute during the development phase. Now the choices have been made it would be bad to change decisions simply because some players prefer gameplay a different way. We also need to consider breaking existing maps. Who is to be the judge of how changes will affect existing maps? And maybe 5 years down the line someone wants a feature changing back - or to something new.

 

Sometimes I want to mantle with a body. Tough. I can't do it in the real world and I can't do it in the Dark Mod universe. I accept that whether I like it or not.

 

What we are doing now is focusing on adding stuff - models, textures, features, plus fixing or upgrading anything broken.

 

Add to all of the above is the fact that there are not enough people contributing to do the seriously important stuff let alone change what has already been decided.

 

 

Of course, never say never.

[LEGION]

The whole world was free to join us and contribute during the development phase.

 

Well, you guys could´ve given me a call, I wasn´t aware of TDM since April this very year!

 

The 'scene' you described, Summer, was for sure pretty intense, wasn´t it? And it was realistic. I would say it´s more fun to play when you have obstacles like this. Though if it would be an option everyone would be fine with it, but sadly it´s more complicated than just change a value from "0" to "1", eh?

[Fidcal]

No, that would be called 'cheating' because the existing games have been designed on the assumption that the goalposts are not on rollerskates and can be moved where each player feels like it. Now if someone creates a strength potion for a particular FM that enables the player to climb with a body over his shoulder or even just a strongman thief player character then I'm fine with that. It might not be accepted as a true Dark Mod FM but at least it won't affect other FMs.